Topic: Spurs - First Ten Games 23/24 League Champs

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I don't think any manager/player should be measured on their 1st season, particularly given Spurs have gone from a putrid defensive style of play to possibly the most offensive, borderline suicidally aggressive tactics in the league.

If we look back to Klopp's first season or Pep's first season, the conclusions you would have drawn from those would not have necessarily led you to where we are today.  They both had their problems implementing their systems of play, but perhaps Klopp's and our own experience is somewhat closer to what Spurs are experiencing than say Man City, who had a great squad of players and money to burn.

In squad terms alone it will take time for players that don't suit his style of player to be shifted out of the squad and adequately replaced.  It's why in large part we've chosen to go with Slot, a manager who is as close to Klopp in playing style as possible. 

Looking at Klopp's first 2 seasons - the first partially Rodgers - the final tallies were 62 pts and 60 pts, respectively.   

Spurs currently have 60 pts with 4 games left to play, so in that regard a somewhat respectable achievement.  Of course, I'm sure we can all come up with good reasons why Klopp's early days were a bit of struggle, but no doubt Spurs fans can do the same with their own team.

I'm not suggesting for 1 second that Postecoglou will go on to become either Klopp or Pep, no.  What I'm saying is even the very best managers we've ever seen in the Premier League had some hiccups early on.

I agree on your intimation that Levy's history of impatience with managers could mean he's out the door regardless.

I think the key within a first season is to show signs of improvement as it goes on. You need to see that the style of play is being implemented and the players are getting used to it etc.

For Spurs, it's been the opposite. They started really strongly but have got worse as the season has progressed. If anything, their early season form now just looks like a classic "new manager bounce" before they either got found out, or the players lost faith in it.

[The North Bank]

We dont do set pieces mate, its who we are.

[disgraced cake]

They are seriously poo but Son or Kulusevski are definitely scoring a cut-back from 6 yards before the clock hits four minutes on Sunday 

We should have enough to score a few, but I feel some might already be on the beach a little. Not like they should be in the managers final games.

[LuverlyRita]

We should have enough to score a few, but I feel some might already be on the beach a little. Not like they should be in the managers final games.

Aside from the Klopp situation, there'll be thousands in Anfield who deserve a performance and we still need to guaratee third spot. CL money is currently dependent on your finishing position in the league and while I don't know how the new format pans out re. the money, our players should be doing it for pride if nothing else.

[Dim Glas]

I don't think any manager/player should be measured on their 1st season, particularly given Spurs have gone from a putrid defensive style of play to possibly the most offensive, borderline suicidally aggressive tactics in the league.

If we look back to Klopp's first season or Pep's first season, the conclusions you would have drawn from those would not have necessarily led you to where we are today.  They both had their problems implementing their systems of play, but perhaps Klopp's and our own experience is somewhat closer to what Spurs are experiencing than say Man City, who had a great squad of players and money to burn.

In squad terms alone it will take time for players that don't suit his style of player to be shifted out of the squad and adequately replaced.  It's why in large part we've chosen to go with Slot, a manager who is as close to Klopp in playing style as possible. 

Looking at Klopp's first 2 seasons - the first partially Rodgers - the final tallies were 62 pts and 60 pts, respectively.  

Spurs currently have 60 pts with 4 games left to play, so in that regard a somewhat respectable achievement.  Of course, I'm sure we can all come up with good reasons why Klopp's early days were a bit of struggle, but no doubt Spurs fans can do the same with their own team.

I'm not suggesting for 1 second that Postecoglou will go on to become either Klopp or Pep, no.  What I'm saying is even the very best managers we've ever seen in the Premier League had some hiccups early on.

I agree on your intimation that Levy's history of impatience with managers could mean he's out the door regardless.

That’s a bit of a mad comparison isn’t it? Didn’t you watch Liverpool back then? He ‘threw’ the last few games to concentrate on European football, as he knew he didn’t have the squad to go all out in both,  and why even use points tallies of a season he didn’t coach in till October.

I was slightly being fiippant anyway, the ridiculous hyping of this guy backfired on him more than anything, pressure will be on next season regardless. Spurs won’t have too much patience.

Also, are you saying that in his frist full season at LFC, Liverpool got 60 points? That isn’t right. Or maybe I’m just misunderstanding your phrasing.

[Brian Blessed]

Klopp also got to two cup finals in his first season. You wouldn’t happen to be Australian, would you, latortuga?

[latortuga]

Klopp's first incomplete season, we didn't do great in the league it's true. Bu there was massive mitigation in him not getting to spend any money (Caulker on loan in January!) and the fact that we reached two cup finals, having some amazing European nights on the way.

Don't know where you're getting that figure for his second (first full) season - we finished on 76 points and qualified for the Champions League. We were also in a title race until January, when injuries and AFCON derailed the season.

Klopp's first full season actually shows how adaptable and pragmatic he could be - we dogged loads of games and ground out results once we'd lost Mane and had other players missing. Ange hasn't shown any adaptability whatsoever.

Yeh, got my dates confused.  Thanks for correcting me. 

Ok, but I'm not saying Ange is Klopp, all I'm saying is that if we take a benchmark of some of the greatest managers ever seen and how they performed in their first season, there is reason to argue that what Postecoglou has done isn't half bad.

No doubt Postecoglou has some major issues and blind spots, I'm onboard with that.  But given the dysfunction at their club and the fact they finished 8th last season; 5th seems like a pass mark to me.  The fact that the media or deluded Spurs fans had them winning the title doesn't really seem relevant.  I do think a more pragmatic manager at certain moments could perhaps have got them 4th, but you can't really play that game, because perhaps it takes away from other results they achieved.  That's why I think it's best not to micro analyse a season, but assess a teams final finishing position in the table.  Which is somewhat similar to our own plight, where we feel like we were close to the title and now we are left disappointed, but in reality it was a good season all things considered.

[The North Bank]

Yeh, got my dates confused.  Thanks for correcting me. 

Ok, but I'm not saying Ange is Klopp, all I'm saying is that if we take a benchmark of some of the greatest managers ever seen and how they performed in their first season, there is reason to argue that what Postecoglou has done isn't half bad.

No doubt Postecoglou has some major issues and blind spots, I'm onboard with that.  But given the dysfunction at their club and the fact they finished 8th last season; 5th seems like a pass mark to me.  The fact that the media or deluded Spurs fans had them winning the title doesn't really seem relevant.  I do think a more pragmatic manager at certain moments could perhaps have got them 4th, but you can't really play that game, because perhaps it takes away from other results they achieved.  That's why I think it's best not to micro analyse a season, but assess a teams final finishing position in the table.  Which is somewhat similar to our own plight, where we feel like we were close to the title and now we are left disappointed, but in reality it was a good season all things considered.

Ange has done a good job, they finished 8th then lost their only world class player in Kane. He overachieved based on pre season expectations.
However if he doesnt develop his game (a plan B beyond high press and work on set pieces etc) then 4-5th is his level , same as Emery. Its still good, but its not elite, and with Klopp you could tell straight away that the upward curve will continue. I dont see Spurs challenging for the title under ange, but theyll always be good to watch and can win the odd big game.

[latortuga]

I think the key within a first season is to show signs of improvement as it goes on. You need to see that the style of play is being implemented and the players are getting used to it etc.

For Spurs, it's been the opposite. They started really strongly but have got worse as the season has progressed. If anything, their early season form now just looks like a classic "new manager bounce" before they either got found out, or the players lost faith in it.

That's a good point, but we can only possibly know that after his 2nd season, if he makes it that far.

[latortuga]

Klopp also got to two cup finals in his first season. You wouldn’t happen to be Australian, would you, latortuga?

G'day mate, throw another shrimp on the barby!

[thaddeus]

I've not looked at the league table since we played Palace but just had a look and Spurs are in danger of finishing sixth or seventh in a five horse race.  I remember Postecoglu brushing aside the question about Man U potentially catching them - he was right on that one, of course - but Newcastle and Chelsea are on their heels now.  When he was asked that question Spurs had 13 and 16 point leads over Newcastle and Chelsea respectively but that's down to 4 and 6 now.

Burnley and Sheff Utd should be six points for them but I wouldn't be surprised if they drop more points.  Man City will play straight through them.

[bradders1011]

Were the Tottenham end - that's Tottenham Hotspur - singing about another club bottling something?

[redgriffin73]

Were the Tottenham end - that's Tottenham Hotspur - singing about another club bottling something?

They deffo sang You lost the league at Goodison Park, while their biggest rivals are potentially about to win it instead, the absolute weirdos!

[mikey_LFC]

Quite remarkable how they’ve dropped off:

26 points from the first 10 games (2.6 pts per game)

34 points from the next 25 games (1.36 pts per game) equivalent to 51.68 pts across a 38 game season.

60 points from the 35 games so far, (1.71 pts per game)

For context they achieved 60pts last season (1.57 per game), but crashed after Conte left. Under Conte they achieved 49 from 28 (1.75 pts per game), whilst juggling European Competition and going a round further in each cup.

Not having Kane may be a factor but even if the football is more entertaining, I think the reality is they’ve gone backwards this season. Maybe that’s to be expected under a new manager, but with their lack of games, toxicity last year and managerial changes, you’d have expected improvement, I think.

Their goal records haven’t improved either. 1.97 goals per game this season, 1.85 per game under conte last season. 1.65 goals per game against this season, 1.42 against last season under conte. That’s the equivalent to conceding 8 more vs scoring 4 more, after 35 games.

[The North Bank]

They still won the league in October

[Elzar]

If you take a league table since the start of November, they are 10th, below Chelsea, West Ham, Bournemouth and level with Everton.

[red_Mark1980]

They deffo sang You lost the league at Goodison Park, while their biggest rivals are potentially about to win it instead, the absolute weirdos!

All of this noise completely ignores the fact that we lost back to back home games before that. Admittedly the Atalanta game doesn't impact the league directly, but thr manner of the performance made me think no way could we win all the remaining games.

If we'd have beaten Everton we'd be on 81 points. Played a game more than city and a point behind them.

Please tell me how we lost it at Goodison.

Oh and Arsenal aren't winning this league.