Author Topic: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?  (Read 7413 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« on: August 12, 2004, 02:42:47 pm »
While we expect loyalty of some degree from our players, some fans think this equates to demanding our star men give the club their kidneys, lungs, hearts, and maybe one or two other vital organs. Upon their passing from this mortal coil, their very souls should be divided into pieces and superglued to plaques that we can purchase form the club shop (at realistic prices - we don't want to be ripped-off). Finally we expect them to donate what's left of their bodies not to medical science but to the club museum, so these hollowed-out husks can be mounted in a glass display cabinet next to a pre-season trophy from a long-forgotten Far East tour.

Michael Owen has had the temerity to consider moving to another club. Doesn't he know that we own him? His body, his soul, is not his own. It belongs to us: Liverpool fans. How dare he think otherwise? I don't know - the lad is clearly a Judas.

The people who make these kind of comments must never have left one job for another - better - one in their lives; never finished with a girlfriend or boyfriend or left a spouse; I assume they have been 100% truthful in every action of their lives. These people must never have even told a white lie. They can't have. Otherwise they'd be hypocrites, and surely that can't be the case?

Sure, footballer is not like any other job. But these are still human beings we are talking about. Not pieces of property. We ask them to shed blood for the cause on a Saturday afternoon (a term for those who remember when football was played at that time), and we ask that they don't leave the club within weeks of arriving, at the first sign of an offer elsewhere. But the concept of loyalty is getting skewed.

Owen's contract has run down because he was waiting to see if the club could match his ambition, and he made no secret of that fact.

Had Houllier fashioned a team capable of challenging these past two years - or at the very least, signs of progressing slowly and not regressing at breakneck speed - Owen would now be sitting pretty in the middle of a long-term deal. Okay, Owen can see that Liverpool have acted with the appointment of Benitez, but it is fair to say that this came too late to make negotiations a simple affair. This happened with just twelve months left on his contract, which meant the club were bound to get jumpy. Even now, Owen is not so pissed off he wants to leave regardless. In nearly all circumstances, now Benitez has taken over, he would stay. But Real Madrid have made their move. Not Everton, for crying out loud. Real Madrid.

Real Madrid: a bigger club than Liverpool - not many are, but that's true of Madrid. A better league than the Premiership - not many are; indeed, no league, bar La Liga, can be seen as a step up these days. To play in front of more fans - twice as many at home games. To move from one great city to another, albeit one with better weather, and a new culture to experience. And to be better paid for the privilege? Wouldn't that be a no-brainer to any other human being in any other line of work? And yet all some people see is greed (probably because these are the people obsessed with money - not the player, who will already have enough for ten lifetime's-worth of security). Clearly, these fans have no ambition in life but to get up, go to bed, and eventually die.

What other player has gone so far as to promise to never leave a club on a Bosman? Owen is being called greedy by many, and yet he could have let his contract run down and picked up double the wages by going on a Bosman. Sol Campbell gets £100,000 a week - more than Thierry Henry - as there was no transfer fee for Arsenal to worry about. The fact Owen didn't sign a new deal doesn't mean he is trying to rip the club off and leave on the cheap in twelve months. He has kept his options open; is that a crime?

Had he signed a four-year deal and then Madrid came in for him - and no footballer seems to have ever turned down Madrid - we'd be saying "why did you dedicate your future to us, only to leave?". Even if it meant we'd get £30m for him, we'd be disgusted. Just as we said about Gerrard, who signed in November 2003 and said he wanted to play for Liverpool for years to come, and might have left seven months later. Gerrard realised the responsibility of his actions, his words. Owen made no such declarations. He said he loves LFC, and would like to sign, but made no explicit promises. Gerrard leaving to join Chelsea - our rivals - before we'd seen the best of him, would have felt like a betrayal. Owen has been a star for Liverpool far longer than Gerrard, despite the fact both are 24. Owen, to my mind, has served his time at Liverpool, and can leave - for a new challenge - with my good wishes.

And yet the insults are also flying around; turns out, he was useless all along. True, Owen hasn't been at his best for the last two seasons, but in 2000/01 and 2001/02 he averaged a league goal every 112 and 117 minutes respectively (ignoring the goals which won cups). That's just twenty minutes off of a goal every game. That kind of form is not possible to maintain, especially in a team which spent the last two seasons struggling, and lacking direction. Was it Owen's fault that the creative players bought by Gerard Houllier were to prove to be next-to-useless? Is it Owen's fault El Hadji Diouf couldn't even cross a ball into an empty box during the warm-up, or that Bruno Cheyrou had all the mental toughness of a runny cheese left out in the summer sun?

I wish people would show some respect for a Liverpool great, whose goalscoring record stands up to anyone's - Rush's, Fowler's, Hunt's (given goals are harder to come by than in the more open game of the 60s). I'm now hearing Owen is past his best, he's washed up, and so on. For my full views on Owen the player, see: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php/topic,33230.msg494276.html#msg494276 . This is how I felt when I believed he would remain a Liverpool player. Perhaps I should be a hypocrite and, now that he's leaving, say he was actually rubbish?  My views on how we can progress as a side, should he leave, are also on record: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php/topic,36554.0.html . I feel upbeat about the future, with or without Michael Owen.

For what it's worth, £10m is a good price for a player with one year left on his contract. He promised he'd never leave for free - and he won't. So we won't get £20-30m? So what - we got him for nothing as a kid (when he could have signed for the Mancs, who were courting him - even after he was with us at the Academy, the usual United underhand "incentives" were being offered). He liked Liverpool - the friendly club - and he liked the way Steve Heighway and his staff treated him. He showed fantastic loyalty then, as a boy, when you can bet your bottom dollar United - by then Champions of England - offered him more than we were (we've all heard the stories of Alex Ferguson turning up at young boys' houses with the proverbial bag of sweeties; that's not meant to make Sir Alex sound like a deviant, by the way, should any United lawyers be reading). Owen showed his loyalty again and again, by signing new contracts. Despite being the most-coveted striker in the world at times, he never left Liverpool in the past, when Liverpool were clearly not the best team in the land; the best club, we can argue, but not the best team. At times, we weren't even close.

Owen has given us nothing but his best, whenever his body has allowed him. It's a compromise. At present, there is - for the only time - parity between player and club. When a player is on a long contract, the club holds all the cards. When a player is at the end of his contract, he holds all the cards. At present, both hold an equal share of cards. The club are acting because, in four months' time, Owen will be in control. Decisions needed to be made, and Rafa doesn't want negotiations impinging on the start of the season.

Let me recap: Owen could be joining Madrid. Not some poxy side. Real Madrid - nine times European Champions. That's over twice as many as our beloved club (and four of Madrid's successes have come while Mickey has been a professional footballer; only two of Liverpool's have come during his lifetime). And fans have the temerity to say it's all about money? How short sighted! Real Madrid are the pinnacle of the game. If you are accused to moving to Madrid only for the money, then it's not possible for any player to have ambition. If Owen were to go to Man United - knowing how much it would hurt Liverpool fans - I'd say yes, he has acted dishonourably. But he won't.

Just bear this in mind: Michael Owen said he'd never sign for another English club, and Madrid, from what I can tell, is not in England (then again, I failed my Geography O Level, so what do I know?). He said he wouldn't shaft the club by leaving for free; if he leaves now, he won't be. That's pretty impressive in my book. Look at Sol Campbell and compare (and even then, Sol can argue he left Spurs as he was ambitious - and has been proven correct on that score). We won't have that kind of heartbreak to deal with.

I understand the disappointment. I understand a little of the anger, but people, think with your heads here. Fortunately, many Liverpool fans are - after all, we are still the most knowledgeable in the game. Others, it is sad to say, are thinking with jerking knees and twitching boots. Please, if the deal goes through, let's show some class - the class we were once famed for - and wish one of our best players all the best.

ADDITION: I just wanted to add a point about loyalty in the past. Everyone seems to think players only ever represented one club in previous eras. Let's not forget that players such as St John, Yeats, Clemence, Keegan, Dalglish, Souness, Rush, Lawrenson, Whelan, McMahon, Aldridge, Barnes and many many more all came to Liverpool from other clubs; all left where they were making their names to join Liverpool, possibly for higher wages but almost certainly to further their careers; I'm not sure the clubs they left were 100% happy about it, but what did we care?

Let's also not forget that many were sold before they'd have wanted to leave Liverpool (Aldridge seemed particular sad, I seem to recall, as he tossed his shirt into the Kop during the 9-0 drubbing of Palace). In some instances they were shipped out while they still had many years left on their contracts, but for the most part LFC opted to cash in - most were past their best, admittedly - rather than let them see out their days in a show of loyalty to the club. That's football, and how it cuts both ways.

© Paul Tomkins 2004
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 04:14:02 pm by paul_tomkins »

Offline m-g

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2004, 03:06:16 pm »
Good post Paul - you have a talent for expressing things in a way which many of us envy! There will only be good wishes to Michael if he leaves from me. Sadness and a little puzzlement with respect to 'why now' (just as things are looking up) but other than that, I'll wish him all the best.

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2004, 03:08:44 pm »
Fantastic article and is true on every count. If and its still if at the moment Owen does leave us, I for one will make sure I tune in when Madrid are playing and hope Owen goes on to be a successful with Madrid as he was with us. There is only one team I hope he doesnt score against in a Madrid Shirt ;)

Good Luck Mickey and thanks for the good times !


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Offline JaZa

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2004, 03:13:19 pm »
Excellent post. I agree with every single word and I hope it sorts some people out!

But I will ask you this... Whilst I don't believe it will happen - would you honestly welcome Michael Owen back with open arms if he was to opt to sign a contract now? Honestly? I would be interested to know.

Offline nige

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2004, 03:22:11 pm »
Class post  again Paul.

Michael's given LFC more than half of his life & LFC have richly rewarded him for his goals. We can call that one quits.
Michael's goals have  us a lot of joy at the matches & we have given him the occasional chant, but usually only  during the warm-up and after he scores a goal. 
The balance of loyalty is is in his favour.
Financially his fee will not be less than the sum of his entire career wages (wages paid by LFC, not total earnings, obviously) ... when he could have left on a Bosman...
He is, ergo, a bit of an all-time star.



« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 04:08:18 pm by ...AND FOR LIVERPOOL... »

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2004, 03:25:26 pm »
very well placed Paul. As much as I am sad to see him go, I wish MO all the best too. It's upsetting that we will never get to see how he would get on with Cisse, it's criminal really, but we have to move on. God I'm going to miss him.

When I say I wish him all the best, what I really mean is that I hope he never scores a goal for Real Madrid and they get relegated. This is Not just because my father fought for the Catalans against Franco and have some kind of love for Barcelona coz I lived there myself etc.

Actually... thats bull.. go on MO and bag 20.



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Offline Talk Doctor

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2004, 03:49:32 pm »
Quote
Excellent post. I agree with every single word and I hope it sorts some people out!

But I will ask you this... Whilst I don't believe it will happen - would you honestly welcome Michael Owen back with open arms if he was to opt to sign a contract now? Honestly? I would be interested to know.

First off, great post Paul, reality check for some confused knee jerkers at the mom.

Why wouldn't we welcome him "Back", he hasn't actually gone yet. Look at the write up SG got after the Graz game. If MO stays and scores 20 this season you will see an lot of "SAS"* folks on this forum.






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Offline RNumberOne

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2004, 03:50:25 pm »
I have to say theres a lot I disagree with in that post.

1) Yes I believe MO HAS bullshitted the club.
eg "my agents on holiday" , "Im changing my agent" , I'll have a chat with rafa " , " I cant find my pen" blah blah blah

To say that is loyalty is TOTAL bullshit.

He was told 12 mth ago , sign or sod off.
Story.End of.

If I was the gaffer  and he WAS playing out his contract , Id pay a clogger in the reserves to give him a triple fibula fracture on his last day.

2) Before people go on about how wonderful the wages are elsewhere , remember that
at LFC no one takes a cut of his off field earnings

3)Does MO ever use that huge public image to do anything good?
I mean other than to sell housing developments in Dubai , and increase his own money?
Nope I dont see him teaching schoolkids in Toxteth , or doing charity work in his many days / weeks off.Nope , but he manages to find time for Tony Blxxx and Blue Peter etc etc.

Its Michael Owen of TEam England , idol of the Daily Mail readers.

4)As for transfer fees imprisoning players?
Well they sign them of their own free will , suppose someones brilliant 1 year and shite for 5 , the club doesnt complain about being "imprisoned" and going crying to the Eurocourts does it?

Clubs have HUGE overheads -stadiums ,staffing ,  squads of malingerers etc etc , yet its the MO's that cream off the money as individual "superstars" whilst "struggling for fitness" 2/3rds of the year.MO doesnt pay a penny towards that.

Then football has to fund the ( or some of the) lesser clubs 365 days a year.Transfer fees were the way to do that.
Just like in nature , take out the middle of the food chain , and the top tends to follow.

5)Nope its sign NOW , or be branded WORSE than Mcmanaman .And we all saw what a snidey , irresponsible little git he was behind the scenes.

( And I know a  number of people whove seen SM coked out of his head out in town)

Most Liverpool fans arent taken in by bullshxx.

Offline Carrafan

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2004, 03:55:09 pm »
That's a fantastic post mate.

I think a lot of the knee-jerk reactions are due to shock and disappointment rather than malice. When you take the time to think about just what Michael Owen has done for the club, it would be a shame if he leaves on bad terms. If he does leave for Madrid then he deserves our respect and best wishes.

(Still hoping he'll re-sign!  ;D)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2004, 04:36:03 pm »
Thanks for the comments. :)

I do accept negative ones, if well-expressed and based in reality (I'm happy to argue my point if intelligent people disagree with me), but this site has higher standards than some others, and if people cannot respect those standards they are welcome to take their views elsewhere. Purely abusive comments will be deleted.

Comments such as "He was told 12 mth ago , sign or sod off. Story.End of." are laughable in their contradiction. If he was told to "sign or sod off" 12 months ago, how come, when he didn't sign, he wasn't sold? (the "sod off" part of that statement). If indeed the club told him that, it's therefore their fault for not going through with their word.



Offline Flight

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2004, 05:03:26 pm »
Well written article, Paul, as usual.

Strongly disagree with some elements of it, though. And disappointed with your reponse to criticism of it.

The two issues I would put forward  :

i) MO has always said, as you've referred to, he would never leave on a free. However, by leading the club AND the fans on with regard to his latest contract, beyond our first European match,  he may as well be trying to leave on a free. If we had played him it would have put his agent in an unreasonably strong position.

He has given every indication that he would sign this latest contract and that he was happy with it. Yet the bottom line is, when its come down to it, he didn't. Yes he has said he would never leave on a Bosman, but him taking us this late in the day without signing a new contract he may as well have tried to leave on a Bosman.



ii) There's a lot of talk about how MO has stuck by him through thick and thin. There's no mention of how much the club has stuck by him through difficult times, like his numerous injuries or last term September to February, when he scored one Premiership goal in nearly 5 months.



iii) I most strongly object to  your opening two or three paragraphs, where anyone who is not  fully supportive of MO is being referred to as though they own his lungs, heart vital organs etc, calling him a Judas,  and think he has the 'temerity' to want to join another club.

Frankly mate, those opening paragraphs are going to create more of a divide between people of differing opinions than exists. I don't think we own him. I don't think he is doing anything wrong by wanting to go and play for Real.  I applaud what he has achieved and I wish him all the very best in whatever he goes on to achieve.  What I object to is hearing him on the box for the last few months talking about how much his heart belongs to LFC, giving every indication he was up for signing a new contract and then not signing it and letting that situation go on beyond our first European game.  Thats the difference between MO leaving now and when Rushie left, for example.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2004, 05:18:31 pm »

...
Strongly disagree with some elements of it, though. And disappointed with your reponse to criticism of it.
...
iii) I most strongly object to  your opening two or three paragraphs, where anyone who is not  fully supportive of MO is being referred to as though they own his lungs, heart vital organs etc, calling him a Judas,  and think he has the 'temerity' to want to join another club.


Response to criticism of it? I merely deleted some rubbish. I left up the piece criticising my article, but deleted the one criticising me. Fair enough?

At least you have made your points constructively. Yes, the club has stuck by him, and also paid him handsomely. However, look at his goals-per-game ratio, and you can see that - leveling things out with injuries and the poor form you have mentioned - he has paid us equally handsomely. To me, that makes us even (given we didn't pay a fee for him to start with), and able to part amicably. I disagree about the contract stuff, but you can tell that from what I wrote. I won't repeat myself. :)

By the way, the opening paragraphs about the vital organs, etc, are supposed to be heavy in irony. I assumed people would detect that? Or maybe you thought I really believed fans expected those things? As for the Judas comments, I've seen plenty already. People who say that kind of thing really need to get a grip.

Offline Flight

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2004, 05:41:28 pm »
Disappointed with the Yawn response to a different reply mate, not the deleted stuff. No idea what was in that I didn't read it.  The Yawn response was in regard to a MO of Team England suggestion. Not saying I agree with it, but its a valid observation from those who feel his England career and having Linkeker in an England shirt as his hero, rather than Dalglish who was playing at the same time, as the basis of it. Some folk feel, rightly or wrongly, that his hero is still Lineker in an England shirt and that his desire to play abroad is in following what Lineker did at Barcelona.

As for the vital organs thing, I guess I was taking that personally, as I do have criticism of MO over the present contract negotiations. Seemed to me the slant of the article was that my stance is wrong and that any criticism of 'Saint Michael' is not on. Maybe I'm wrong in that, I'm not sure.

Whatever, the sad thing is I would be surprised if there was anyone who would not just wish he would sign the contract and stay with us. Lets all agree he would probably have found his best form for many a season under Rafas team and broken his own scoring records.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2004, 06:03:21 pm »
I am merely *very* tired at hearing about Owen being an England player first and foremost, with the inference he prefers England and doesn't give a toss about Liverpool. It's insulting. Also, his goalscoring ratio is far better for Liverpool (better than one goal every two games) than England (less than one goal every two games). He gives his all for both, from what I can tell. I'll yawn about "Team England" bollocks 'till the cows come home!

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2004, 06:34:50 pm »
Good post Paul.

I totally agree with you that people should not be unfairly targeting Mikey. He has been a good servant for the club and he is entitled to move.

Every player moves on and we have to learn to accept that even when they are as unique as Owen.

I doubt we will ever produce a player like Owen. He has been a true professional for us and has given his best when he has played. You can bet your bottom dollar that he will be hurting when he leaves. But if he feels that it is time to move on then I am 100% behind him. He is leaving purely for professional reasons and not personal.

One thing I cant understand though is why the heck are people so p*ssed off that he is leaving. He was never appreciated that much in the time he has been at the club. I have rarely heard his name being chanted at home games (apart from the REAL supporters who go to away games as well).

For years Owen has lived in Fowler's shadow who only needed to fart on the bench to get the loudest cheer.

Hell even Biscan gets more of a mention at Anfield. Then people have the cheek to accuse him of disloyalty.

If anyone is to blame for this whole saga it is the club for the way they have handled this whole affair.

I hope Owen goes on to become a huge success at Real Madrid and shows Golden Balls how to really make an impact in Spain. Good luck to Michael and thanks for the memories (and there have been many).

PS: a part of me is praying he signs a contract and stays.

Offline ALPH1217

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2004, 06:42:29 pm »
None of us are ever too old to learn. When we were kids, we had no interest in the business side of football. We only cared about the action on the pitch and if LFC were able to get the right result. Alas, the older we get, something's becoming more apparent than ever. The real game isn't on the field, I'm not so sure it ever was. The real game takes place in the front office where all the business decisions are made as we're seeing now with this Owen fiasco. I've often wondered how Shanks himself would have coped in this age of spoiled footballers and their greedy agents.

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2004, 07:10:24 pm »
i agree paul, that if owen leaves its not about the money, its never been that way for michael. i cant accept that hed think that he had no chance of success with us, though. we;re finally after two years of (arguably) regression, moving in the right direction.

and 10 million, even for a  player with 12 months to run on his contract, is too little when that player is michael owen. i go to sleep every night wishing id wake up the next afternoon ( ;D) finding out hed signed a new deal.

and whats with the personal insults being traded - none of that here please :no
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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2004, 09:01:11 pm »
Owen gave the indication he was ready to sign a contract if he felt the club were doing enough to fulfill his ambitions. Anyone who thought hed sign a contract when we got knocked out of the cup by fucking Portsmouth is being very naive imo. I bet he would have been off by now and well into preperations for the new season of La Liga or Serie A if the management had not been changed. In the media he has always made it out as if he will sign if things are right, that has been made clear while also maintaining that he won't do the bosman on us or goto United/Arsenal/Chelsea. NEVER has he promised he will stay and sign a new contract. Much of that idea has come from Parry/Benitez/Newspaper reports claiming they had tied his contract up and the false sense of security we were lulled into during the Gerrard fiasco (i.e. Owen wont leave now because he loves Benitez and it was his choice) - nothing on him definitley having signed a 2 year extension came from him. 

I suspect 10 days ago Michael owen was very correct in saying he was close to signing a new deal and I have no reason not to believe him but things have obviously changed since then over one or two issues and LFC have had to make a business (and footballing) decision to flog him before this carries on into the season. By saying Owen has misled the club or whatever is implying all along he has had an intention of leaving for Real close to the end of pre-season. Why would he do that? What benefit does he gain except getting a backlash from some supporters? If Owen really was desperate to leave he would have done so as there would be a host of clubs willing to sign him at the start of the summer I'm sure. If Owen was a true greedy mercenary (a la Macca or Campbell?) he would sit on his contract and leave next summer for free as well as making a huge amount of money in the process.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 09:03:31 pm by Guz-kop »
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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2004, 10:02:26 pm »
Well elaborated points by Paul... as always.

The possibility of MO leaving LFC undoubtedly saddens all the Reds fans and such knee jerk reactions are not to be unexpected.

However, it must be remembered that Owen will not be the first LFC superstar to leave the club. After Rushie went to Juventus and Keegan to Hamburg, the club took the appropriate measures and as a result, the Reds (playing as a team) were even more formidable. The squads of 1978-79 and 1987-88 are generally hailed as the best in the history of Liverpool FC.

This is why is said that no player is bigger than the club and I have a feeling that this about to be shown again.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 10:04:02 pm by Reds-Faithful »
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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2004, 11:01:53 pm »
All 3 years and 20,000+ posts, This must rank as perhaps the most ludicrous comment I've read,

"He deserves no respect for the things hes done here."

We all know to which player this refers, and that is absolutely ludicrous. Whatever manner he may be leaving in he deserves maximum respect for all he has achieved for the club. He's the clubs leading scorer in European competition of all time, which, even allowing for the post-Heysel ban denying the likes of Ian Rush a more impressive tally is a mighty impressive feat. 7 years running top scorer for the club, apart from perhaps Alan Shearer at Newcastle and possibly Matt Le Tissier at Southampton in the mid-90's nobody else holds a record like that. For too long he carried the side and being fair, last season was probably the first 'bad season' he had at the club. A bad season in which he scored over 0.5 goals per game! The fee we're supposedly getting is perhaps pitiful, but to say Owen deserves no respect is absolutely preposterous and has left me fuming. If Owen had marched out of the club after his heroics in Cardiff in 2001 he would have been a legend if only for that day alone. When he leaves it will be a sad day for the club and for Owen personally, as I believe he still had a chance of challenging the goalscoring records of Ian Rush and Roger Hunt or at the very least overtaking Robbie Fowler as the all time high scorer in the premiership.

If indeed he is on his way then all I can do is wish Michael the best of luck in Madrid and reflect on what might have been. He has my complete respect, he's earned it!


Offline Talk Doctor

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Re: In all my time on .tv...
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2004, 11:04:50 pm »
Hear,hear.
From a Spanish saying: "Be careful to "know" all that you say, but never to say all that you know"

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Re: In all my time on .tv...
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2004, 11:04:59 pm »
Theres an excellent article from Paul Tompins on the Opinion forum along these lines. Your post will fit in nicely on that on-going discussion, so will merge this with that in a few mins.

Agree with you by the way. Owen goes with my respect, not that it means much.

Cheers

Offline Millsee

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Re: In all my time on .tv...
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2004, 11:05:38 pm »
Agree 100%.

I have to say though - it serves you right for going on .tv

Offline cynicaloldgit

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Re: In all my time on .tv...
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2004, 11:07:17 pm »
Completely right. I can understand why people are angry and disappointed at Owen's departure but that in no way detracts from his marvellous achievements with the club.
"You can always lie to others, but never to yourself."

Offline Roger

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Re: In all my time on .tv...
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2004, 11:10:05 pm »
it would help if you attributed where that comment came from- other than .tv. just some random knobhead?

why drag .tv into it? Or your time on .tv?


Offline Spartacus.

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Re: In all my time on .tv...
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2004, 12:34:38 am »
"He deserves no respect for the things hes done here."

What's wrong with that?  What did The Midget ever do for us  ???
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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2004, 02:29:18 am »
As far as I'm concerned, MO is a great champion and will always remain a Liverpool great. As a player, he was fantastic to watch and he rarely (can't say never since I don't have a record of EVERYTHING he's said and done) used the media for his own exploits whether voicing dissatisfaction of managers or players, or defending himself from abuse and criticisms from feral fans. He did everything right by the club. Who would have scored those amazing goals against Arsenal when we won the FA Cup? That famous victory really belonged to MO (and maybe Henchoz!). We didn't have a sniff at the trophy until MO turned up with the 2 goals - the latter, a classic MO goal.

MO is a wealthy man. I am sure he's not particularly interested with the monetary rewards that Real Madrid can offer. Believe you me when I say that once a man has got enough money, he craves for something else. Some of us may want power or fame or both. MO wants unparalleled on-field success. He knows time is running out for him. He's had crippling injuries before. He knows it's unrealistic for Rafa to turn the club around and win the championship in anything less than 2-3 seasons. He's ambitious, just like everyone else who has half a brain, and wants more than the Coca Cola cup, Worthington Cup, FA Cup and UEFA Cup medals. To be regarded as a great, he has to win multiple medals.

He's done right by the club. He's not doing a McManaman. He's leaving us and leaving us with some cash and a good player from Madrid. He'll definitely be missed by many, not only in Scouseland but everywhere around the world.

pebbelhead

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2004, 07:41:01 pm »
I can confirm - that MO has signed for RM.   
Stay tuned for further devlpmnts.

Offline kopend

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Re: In all my time on .tv...
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2004, 09:26:58 pm »


What's wrong with that?  What did The Midget ever do for us  ???

stupidest thing iv heared in a long time

Offline Bossmann

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2004, 10:16:27 pm »
Good one as always Paul.

I feel numb, it feels terrible to lose Owen (especially when my smug Arsenal friend is saying it with a smile on his face, knowing Viera will stay) he is for many supporters and for me a Icon of Liverpool FC. No less IMO.
I am fairly confident that the wonderful gifted Cissé and Baros will be able to shoulder the responsibility that Owen leaves behind and I also belive that if we can spend the transfer money to address other positions in the team we will probably stand stronger as a team.


But still.... this is a sad day. I wish Michael all the best and will hope that he does a Rush and come back soon.

Offline Rushian

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Re: Michael Owen: How Much Loyalty Can We Expect?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2004, 10:16:36 pm »

stupidest thing iv heared in a long time

she was being ironic ...
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: In all my time on .tv...
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2004, 11:20:15 pm »


What's wrong with that?  What did The Midget ever do for us  ???

;D

First time today I've been able to laugh at this mess.

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