Topic: Deloitte Money League

[Yesitsanextender]

Commercial investors looking at Liverpool - whoooo your nicer than my wife...

[Felch Aid]

Amazing considering what was happening in 2010.

[iRed]

Feels good to be paying our own way on the road to all this success.

[clinical]

That wage bill includes all the new contracts right and champions league bonus? Wouldn't expect too much an increase next year.

Looks very healthy indeed considering we've made net profit of £30m this financial year on player buys/sales and have new kit deal.

[roots99]

That wage bill includes all the new contracts right and champions league bonus? Wouldn't expect too much an increase next year.

Looks very healthy indeed considering we've made net profit of £30m this financial year on player buys/sales and have new kit deal.

It doesn't include the CL bonuses. They're the accounts up to May 31 2019. The final was June 1.

[masher]

Absolutely stunning turn around under FSG. Will be interesting to see the detailed accounts and Swiss Ramble analysis.

[clinical]

It doesn't include the CL bonuses. They're the accounts up to May 31 2019. The final was June 1.

Ah okay, but they will be offset by the prize money of winning it I guess. Which also isn't included as was June 1st too.

[ToneLa]

Grauniad with a decent take on this boss news also 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/27/liverpool-42m-pre-tax-profit-record-223m-spend-on-players-financial-year-2018-19

Spells out just how we do it: we are legit, we follow FFP, and we've locked down our best players. City take note!

The latest accounts, for the year ending 31 May 2019, show turnover rose by £78m thanks to increased media, commercial and match-day revenue. The turnover of £533m enabled Liverpool to invest a record £223m on players, notably the signings of Alisson, Fabinho, Naby Keïta and Xherdan Shaqiri. There were also new contracts for 11 players including lucrative deals for Mohamed Salah, Sadio Mané, Roberto Firmino, Jordan Henderson, Trent Alexander-Arnold and Andy Robertson.

Liverpool’s media revenue increased by £41m to £261m thanks mainly to the Champions League broadcasting deal that started in 2018-19, when Klopp’s team won the club’s sixth European crown by defeating Tottenham in Madrid. In a season that also brought a second-place finish in the Premier League and enthralling title race with Manchester City, commercial revenue rose by £34m to £188m and match revenue by £3.5m to £84m. Nine new commercial partnerships were signed, including a first official training kit partnership with AXA.

[Mighty_Red]

To spend that kind of money and still make a profit is massive for us. It means that we have the strength to invest on and off the pitch especially if you think how good this season's accounts are likely to be with minimal transfer outlays and CL prize money and sponsors even with us paying out bonuses.

[clinical]

To spend that kind of money and still make a profit is massive for us. It means that we have the strength to invest on and off the pitch especially if you think how good this season's accounts are likely to be with minimal transfer outlays and CL prize money and sponsors even with us paying out bonuses.

We'll have 2018 level profits for this season you'd think, without selling a Coutinho.

[Red Beret]

Looking at the report the main thing that stands out is that match day revenues are out dwarfed by other commercial streams. Everton really should take note.

[roots99]

Ah okay, but they will be offset by the prize money of winning it I guess. Which also isn't included as was June 1st too.

Yep. From memory, so liable to be wrong, it's about £15m in prize money. Then £4-5m for the Super Cup and the same roughly for the WCC.
You could have a situation where CL and PL bonuses are accounted for in the same financial year given the season ends mid-May.   

[FiSh77]

Yep. From memory, so liable to be wrong, it's about £15m in prize money. Then £4-5m for the Super Cup and the same roughly for the WCC.
You could have a situation where CL and PL bonuses are accounted for in the same financial year given the season ends mid-May.   

Could be two lots of CL win bonuses on the same accounts with this season's final on May 30th

[TepidT2O]

Looking at the report the main thing that stands out is that match day revenues are out dwarfed by other commercial streams. Everton really should take note.

To be fair, Evertons commercial revenues and match day revenues are equally awful

[Fromola]

Grauniad with a decent take on this boss news also 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/27/liverpool-42m-pre-tax-profit-record-223m-spend-on-players-financial-year-2018-19

Spells out just how we do it: we are legit, we follow FFP, and we've locked down our best players. City take note!

Our match revenues will be pushing 100 mill when the new stand is done. A hell of a turnaround from 10 years ago.

[TepidT2O]

Our wage bill was £310m! (Lots of performance bonuses I expect)


Everyone revenue?

£188m. And they’re ‘rich’

[Red Beret]

To be fair, Evertons commercial revenues and match day revenues are equally awful

[CraigDS]

Our wage bill was £310m! (Lots of performance bonuses I expect)

Where have you got that from?

[Paul1611]

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet but just listening to a interview TAW done with Nick Harris from Sporting Intelligence regarding all this - he says he expects our revenue this season to be between £555m and £590m depending on CL progress.

So £533 mill to May 2019 and then an expected £555-£590mill up to end of May 2020?
Things are looking very good   However given minimal transfer outlay would these figures not be higher breaking through £600mill?

[ianburns252]

Ah okay, but they will be offset by the prize money of winning it I guess. Which also isn't included as was June 1st too.

I can't say this for certain, having not been part of the accounts team, but GAAP allows for a week's grace with regard to the year end (often seen within the retail industry) and so it is probable that the accounts will have been prepared, effectively, to 1st June 2019 to encompass the full season.

Whilst it does accelerate our CT liability by increasing profits, it eliminates the risk of having inflated profits in FY 20 should we go on another successful CL run.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Where have you got that from?

The Anfield wage bill climbed from £263 million in 2017-18 to £310 million in 2018-19 — a sharp rise of nearly 18 per cent. It remains at around 58 per cent of the club’s turnover of £533 million.

https://theathletic.com/1634138/2020/02/27/liverpool-finances-record-revenues-jurgen-klopp/

[Qston]

So what you're saying is that you can legitimately increase turnover/profit, sign top players for big money and not breach FFP ?  Who'd thunk it

[RedSince86]

Amazing by FSG, won't be long until we are in the top 5 in the money list above the 2 plastic cheats.

[TheMightyReds]

Great results but;

1. Wage bill is too high. Should be lower than 50% in my opinion. Removing Lallana, Clyne and few fringe players may help.
2. Clearly could do more around Sponsorship around stadium.
3. Likely to be a big spend in the summer from us. Expecting easily over £100M.
4. Will spend £60M on ARE and have spent £40M net on training ground. That's probably another reason we didn't spend last summer.

[smutchin]

Great results but;

1. Wage bill is too high. Should be lower than 50% in my opinion. Removing Lallana, Clyne and few fringe players may help.
2. Clearly could do more around Sponsorship around stadium.
3. Likely to be a big spend in the summer from us. Expecting easily over £100M.
4. Will spend £60M on ARE and have spent £40M net on training ground. That's probably another reason we didn't spend last summer.

Except we did spend in the summer, including a big new contract for Virg, and followed that with a big new contract for Trent in January.

I find it frustrating when people bang on about 'net spend' (only ever basing their sums on headline transfer fees) and apparent lack of activity in the transfer market, because that fails to acknowledge the bigger financial picture. The new contract for Sadio Mané last year is one of the reasons we're now immune to fishing expeditions from the likes of Real Madrid, but the cost of new contracts is not inconsequential and is probably the main reason why we're not splashing the supposed profit from transfer dealings on signing new players.

Losing Lallana and Clyne in the summer, along with possibly one or two others, will no doubt allow the owners to look at reallocating the portion of the budget that went on their wages, but as to whether or not the wage bill is currently 'too high', I don't think they would be dishing out all these new contracts if they weren't sustainable as part of the overall strategy, and I trust them to know what they're doing in that regard.

The size of the wage bill is largely predicated on keeping irreplaceable players like Salah happy. It would be an awful lot more expensive to lose him, even if we made a net profit on the headline transfer fee for a replacement.

[clinical]

Great results but;

1. Wage bill is too high. Should be lower than 50% in my opinion. Removing Lallana, Clyne and few fringe players may help.
2. Clearly could do more around Sponsorship around stadium.
3. Likely to be a big spend in the summer from us. Expecting easily over £100M.
4. Will spend £60M on ARE and have spent £40M net on training ground. That's probably another reason we didn't spend last summer.

It won't be far off 50% next season. Most had their improved deals, we lost Sturridge, Mignolet and Moreno would have freed up around £12m a year. And I guess our revenue will be a little higher, especially if we go far in UCL again. I'll guess it will be 55% next year as a conservative guess.

[rebel23]

COO speaking to the ECHO

Big-money links to players such as Kylian Mbappe and Jadon Sancho are never too far away from the transfer rumour mill, but the Reds will continue to adopt a sensible approach across all areas of their investments.

Mr Hughes said: "The success we drive off the pitch will drive additional profitability and cash-flow and we are investing that back into the squad and living within our means.

"That has been a clear strategy to build sustainable financial growth. We will continue to do so. That means there is more money to invest but we won't be investing beyond that.

"I think what you can see historically is we've put a lot of time, thought, intelligence and brain-power into building a squad and that remains in place and continues.

"Yes, we are continuing to invest in the squad. Since the turn of the year, we have signed Takumi Minamino, so we are continuing to do what we have always done - look for great players at the right price."

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fsg-long-term-plan-liverpool-17813890

[rk1]

Great results but;

1. Wage bill is too high. Should be lower than 50% in my opinion. Removing Lallana, Clyne and few fringe players may help.

Wage bill is high due to our success. The contracts are reportedly pretty heavily incentivised, so it would explain such a big increase. You would imagine that the wage bill will be similar this year depending on how deep we go into CL

[killer-heels]

Great results but;

1. Wage bill is too high. Should be lower than 50% in my opinion. Removing Lallana, Clyne and few fringe players may help.
2. Clearly could do more around Sponsorship around stadium.
3. Likely to be a big spend in the summer from us. Expecting easily over £100M.
4. Will spend £60M on ARE and have spent £40M net on training ground. That's probably another reason we didn't spend last summer.

Should it be 50%? I thought under 60% was healthy?

[BaZ87]

So £533 mill to May 2019 and then an expected £555-£590mill up to end of May 2020?
Things are looking very good   However given minimal transfer outlay would these figures not be higher breaking through £600mill?

No, transfer spend won't effect our revenue.

This seasons revenue will be somwhere in the £550-590m range depending on how far we progress in the CL, although these figures may be slightly impacted by last seasons CL win. We'll have a better idea when the full accounts are available but it's possible that some expenses and revenue linked to the CL win have been carried over into this financial year.

Great results but;

1. Wage bill is too high. Should be lower than 50% in my opinion. Removing Lallana, Clyne and few fringe players may help.

Surely you mean our revenue is too low or are you suggesting that we should have weakened our squad just to meet some random metric?  You cannot have one of the best squads in world football and be paying them Chelsea level wages afterall.

Of course the club would like to get the wage to turnover ratio down but the improvement in the quality of the squad has meant that wages have had to grow as they have. It's worth noting that the despite two big increases in the past two seasons, the wage to turnover ratio has barely changed. Having tied down most of our key players to new deals in the previous 12 months, it's not likely that we'll see nearly the same level of growth in wages for this current season and even looking forwards into next season. Revenue however has and will continue to grow, which will bring that ratio down.

[stoopid yank]

Great results but;


4. Will spend £60M on ARE and have spent £40M net on training ground. That's probably another reason we didn't spend last summer.

Keep in mind that infrastructure improvements are exempt from FFP and are provided by low interest loans from the owners, like lending money to yourself.  I understand it all eventually falls under the same tree, and that there is no "free" money, but I think these expenses are classified differently. Maybe someone with the know how could elaborate further?

[markedasred]

No, transfer spend won't effect our revenue.

This seasons revenue will be somwhere in the £550-590m range depending on how far we progress in the CL, although these figures may be slightly impacted by last seasons CL win. We'll have a better idea when the full accounts are available but it's possible that some expenses and revenue linked to the CL win have been carried over into this financial year.Surely you mean our revenue is too low or are you suggesting that we should have weakened our squad just to meet some random metric?  You cannot have one of the best squads in world football and be paying them Chelsea level wages afterall.

Of course the club would like to get the wage to turnover ratio down but the improvement in the quality of the squad has meant that wages have had to grow as they have. It's worth noting that the despite two big increases in the past two seasons, the wage to turnover ratio has barely changed. Having tied down most of our key players to new deals in the previous 12 months, it's not likely that we'll see nearly the same level of growth in wages for this current season and even looking forwards into next season. Revenue however has and will continue to grow, which will bring that ratio down.

I think you could describe what the club are doing with the player wages is just as ideally structured as the management of all the tiny bits of monitoring and conversion to on field performance done by our sizeable non playing staff. The slightly modest wages for a club of our size and success levels are made acceptable for the players by the bonus structure, which being performance related means the owners pay them plenty right now, whilst our near neighbours in two shades of blue and also those in red just hand over an obscene amount to all of them regardless of their performance (yes, they probably have CL qualification clauses, but they pay a much higher base rate in the majority of instances). Our quality of structure as a club is almost without equal.

[paulrazor]

To spend that kind of money and still make a profit is massive for us. It means that we have the strength to invest on and off the pitch especially if you think how good this season's accounts are likely to be with minimal transfer outlays and CL prize money and sponsors even with us paying out bonuses.

brilliant isnt it

next accounts if they go to end of may will also factor in a league win

bloody hell.

[Red Beret]

So what you're saying is that you can legitimately increase turnover/profit, sign top players for big money and not breach FFP ?  Who'd thunk it

Yep.  You just can't sign eight £60-£80m players in a single transfer window.

[rebel23]

Your only allowed to  post a loss of £45m averaged over 3 years to stay within FFP. 

It's not an issue for us...

We can also sell fringe players to put towards the transfer budget (Wilson, Grujic etc.)

We wont be spending 100 million on Sancho though Sorry.

[paulrazor]

We wont be spending 100 million on Sancho though Sorry.

well as good as results are id agree, no way we would spend that after going all out on mbappe

[rebel23]

well as good as results are id agree, no way we would spend that after going all out on mbappe

Ha

[tornado]

Drink with es-miile!

[Fromola]

Great results but;

1. Wage bill is too high. Should be lower than 50% in my opinion. Removing Lallana, Clyne and few fringe players may help.
2. Clearly could do more around Sponsorship around stadium.
3. Likely to be a big spend in the summer from us. Expecting easily over £100M.
4. Will spend £60M on ARE and have spent £40M net on training ground. That's probably another reason we didn't spend last summer.

Wage bill seems excessive given that the squad isn't the strongest (the core team that play every week certainly is but we're short of cover at full back or certainly like-for-like options for the front 3). Midfield has big depth.

The likes of Clyne, Lovren, Lallana, Shaqiri are on a first team wage though without really getting much game time. If we can bring 2 or 3 in (Werner, another left back, maybe promote Jones/Williams) then that'd more than balance that back out if you add a couple of new contracts (VVD/Wijnaldum).

[CraigDS]

Wage bill seems excessive given that the squad isn't the strongest