Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[MJD-L4]

Gone are the days of 'that's a pen, but the ref hasn't seen it'. He now has two more sets of eyes that CAN see it, and even THEN they fuck it up or just decide not to give it. Which has led to these 'corruption' shouts more than ever.

This is an important point. 10 years ago, Taylor's shit show would have been put down as a bad day at the office & people would have moved on by now.

All the introduction of VAR has done is created a breeding ground for conspiracy & corruption fanatics whilst highlighting just how poor the officials in this country are.

[Yorkykopite]

In that case how could Oliver be open and non biased refereeing City games after being employed to referee in the UAE.

The difference is that he's not directly employed by Manchester City with the specific purpose of putting their case to a neutral authority. This ought to be obvious, whatever you think about referees being allowed to officiate in the Emirates.

[Barneylfc∗]

I wonder what Forest expect to discover on the audio? The implication is that Attwell will be heard saying something like "That can't be a penalty, I'm a Luton fan and I reckon our best chances of survival involve overtaking Forest not Everton."

The audio I'd like to hear is Clattenburg's eve of  match meeting with Howard Webb. I think the rest of the clubs have a right to hear that exchange.

If it's true it was only raised on Friday, I'd be interested to know why they didn't raise it earlier. I first noticed the appointments last Wednesday, so if we say Wednesday is when the appointments were made, why did they not raise it immediately? Surely they didn't just find out on Friday that Atwell was a Luton fan.

[Eeyore]

The difference is that he's not directly employed by Manchester City with the specific purpose of putting their case to a neutral authority. This ought to be obvious, whatever you think about referees being allowed to officiate in the Emirates.

Oliver was employed by City's owners though. He was vastly overpaid for officiating in a joke league. As for Clattenberg what happened to referees being professionals and impartial. Surely clattenberg is a professional and as such according to you would be trying to be the best refereeing consultant he could be?

[End Product]

The Clattenburg hire is unpalatable but when the pgmol is not fit for purpose and mike Dean makes decisions to help out his mate its no wonder forest hire one of boys for influence.

Oliver working in   a certain state as well is just brushed under the carpet. Don't be surprised to see  forest vs olympiakos friendly with him being paid well happen in future.

[[new username under construction]]

If it's true it was only raised on Friday, I'd be interested to know why they didn't raise it earlier. I first noticed the appointments last Wednesday, so if we say Wednesday is when the appointments were made, why did they not raise it immediately? Surely they didn't just find out on Friday that Atwell was a Luton fan.

I thought they did or is Friday the "earier in the week" I saw somewhere (sky?)

[Eeyore]

The Clattenburg hire is unpalatable but when the pgmol is not fit for purpose and mike Dean makes decisions to help out his mate its no wonder forest hire one of boys for influence.

Oliver working in   a certain state as well is just brushed under the carpet. Don't be surprised to see  forest vs olympiakos friendly with him being paid well happen in future.

Clattenberg was head of refereeing in Greece when Marinakis the forest owner was being investigated for match fixing. The whole thing is a joke.

Luckily we have Yorky defending the integrity of referees and the Pgmol.

[Barneylfc∗]

I thought they did or is Friday the "earier in the week" I saw somewhere (sky?)

If they did then fair enough. I just read Friday on here I think 

Ignore that actually. That hairy handed sex pest Richard Keys said Friday, so most likely he's full of shit and they did raise it as soon as the appointment was made.

[Yorkykopite]

As for Clattenberg what happened to referees being professionals and impartial. Surely clattenberg is a professional and as such according to you would be trying to be the best refereeing consultant he could be?

I thought Clattenberg was employed by Nottingham Forest? Isn't he there to put the Forest case? I don't think he's expected to brief against them.

[Knight]

Exactly. And VAR does not bring fairness, thats just an illusion.

I cant understand why football is hurting itself with this nonsense.

Regarding the offside calls: A football player runs at 5-10 meters per second, which means that he moves 0.1-0.2 m per video frame. That makes it utterly silly to discuss an offside of a few cm, because thats a fraction of a frame. The precision just isnt there, so let it be.

It's actually madness. It'd be one thing if the tech was 100% accurate, and we'd have to ask questions about whether it's nonetheless bad for the game. But it isn't. It's just guesswork.

The greatest moment in Coventry's history (potentially, i'm afraid I'm not up to speed on their history) and one of the greatest FA Cup moments ever was stolen by a totally unfit for purpose piece of technology.

[Eeyore]

I thought Clattenberg was employed by Nottingham Forest? Isn't he there to put the Forest case? I don't think he's expected to brief against them.

I thought Oliver was paid by Man City's owners?

I don't think City expect him to give last minute penalties against City at Anfield.

[Yorkykopite]

I thought Oliver was paid by Man City's owners?

I don't think City expect him to give last minute penalties against City at Anfield.

Or any penalties for that matter.

[Kekule]

Taylor and Oliver have got Euro24 referee gigs.

Even better than that though, Coote and Attwell have been chosen for VAR.  I assume they’ll only work with the two English refs. Can you imagine the mess that pair of twerps could cause trying to communicate with an official in a different language? Like some pissed up little Englander on holiday.

“No. Sausage, egg and chips, you’re not even trying to speak English are you?”

[redtel]

Exactly. If Taylor motions 'he got the ball' (which he did) he has to say that to VAR, so if VAR watch that replay, clearly see he didn't win the ball at all, but don't overrule it, there is absolutely a case to answer as to why.

So either he's shit at his job and shouldn't be on VAR, is scared to overrule Taylor and therefore shouldn't be on VAR, or is corrupt and shouldn't be on VAR.

Genuinely shocked at the whole narrative that is coming from various places today and yesterday, that 'as IF refs are corrupt', like it's beyond comprehension that an English ref could be swayed by all manner of things in their decision making.
Where is THAT coming from? Some guy on the radio today basically saying refs just aren't corrupt. Why?!?

I do agree that why would someone be corrupt against Forest but not Everton when they are both down there, I do question that. But if it's not corruption, it's absolute incompetance, and it needs stamping out of the game.

Gone are the days of 'that's a pen, but the ref hasn't seen it'. He now has two more sets of eyes that CAN see it, and even THEN they fuck it up or just decide not to give it. Which has led to these 'corruption' shouts more than ever.

I reckon it’s the middle one. He’s scared to overrule a referee who is higher in the pecking order than he is.

It’s a replica of the Doku kick where the FIFA referee Oliver makes his judgement “Not for me” despite Macca having his back to the referee. Taylor makes his signal that Young got the ball and runs away to signal no penalty. Again, the players are facing away from Taylor so he gets it wrong.

In each case Attwell simply goes along with the referee who he doesn’t feel he can challenge. He even brushes off the appeal of his var assistant who asks if he is sure about that decision at Anfield. Very interested to hear his comments to Taylor on the Young incident.

There is a list of which referees who have favoured home teams in PL games. Attwell is at the top I think as it probably makes his job easier if he doesn’t have the crowd on his back as well as the 22 players. He isn’t strong minded.

Atkinson selects which officials are paired together and in selecting Attwell to be on var with Oliver and later Taylor he is giving them the confidence to make decisions with little or no kickback. The fact that both these incidents happened in Liverpool where the crowds are vociferous shall we say, makes me think he was hand picked.

[Mister Flip Flop]

 Clattenburg may be a complete cock but i suspect he knows how the referee's work in terms of favouritism and protecting the product, who knows what information he has even. He'd better hope his jocks are squeaky clean in the past and present because the product will do all it can to protect itself and come after him if needs be.

[Paul JH]

All the introduction of VAR has done is created a breeding ground for conspiracy & corruption fanatics whilst highlighting just how poor the officials in this country are.

Yep, pretty much. If anything, all it has done is increase the amount of people labelling what they do corruption, because there does seem to be more 'evidence' of it, in the shape of atrocious decision making. It hasn't been good for the game, but it's been even worse for officiating.

[Legs]

Clattenburg may be a complete cock but i suspect he knows how the referee's work in terms of favouritism and protecting the product, who knows what information he has even. He'd better hope his jocks are squeaky clean in the past and present because the product will do all it can to protect itself and come after him if needs be.

Well we know he has gone on record to say Ferguson was intimidating and it is easier to not give decisions against them.

Heard an ex ref on YouTube maybe David Ellery not sure though, he was doing this chat to an audience and he was talking about Ian Wright being mouthy so he “decided” I’m not giving him anything now.

So he told the story 2-3 times this lower league side in cup smashed into Wright and I told him no foul on the 4th one Wright got up goes I’ll do it for you ref “NO FUCKING FOUL PLAY ON” EVERYONE was laughing he did then say he could have got injured.

Now to me that is a ref who could have caused a serious injury to a player and then went public and in my eyes admits to cheating.

But hey as long as you get a good laugh twat.

[Paul JH]

I reckon it’s the middle one. He’s scared to overrule a referee who is higher in the pecking order than he is.

It’s a replica of the Doku kick where the FIFA referee Oliver makes his judgement “Not for me” despite Macca having his back to the referee. Taylor makes his signal that Young got the ball and runs away to signal no penalty. Again, the players are facing away from Taylor so he gets it wrong.

In each case Attwell simply goes along with the referee who he doesn’t feel he can challenge. He even brushes off the appeal of his var assistant who asks if he is sure about that decision at Anfield. Very interested to hear his comments to Taylor on the Young incident.

Agree 100%. The two, Taylor and Oliver, have just been given the Euro's. They are the two 'top' refs in the country. One, is unbelievably biased towards City, one has constant dubious decisions against us. Both have big ego's. Which one was it that apparently was fuming he was asked to go and check the screen with a decision, didn't overturn it, and after that, has never been asked since?

Ref's, these two especially, are ego driven. As much as players and managers. These two get all the top gigs. These two, or Oliver, was paid by City's owners to go ref in the UAE and almost never gives a debatable decision against them? So yeah, I agree that ref's can easily be corrupt, or if not, ego driven arseholes others are scared to challenge. When you get VAR, Atwell, probably terrified to overruled either Taylor OR Oliver, then it's all fucked. Games are at the mercy of these two and it's absolutely open for corruption.

[Eeyore]

Agree 100%. The two, Taylor and Oliver, have just been given the Euro's. They are the two 'top' refs in the country. One, is unbelievably biased towards City, one has constant dubious decisions against us. Both have big ego's. Which one was it that apparently was fuming he was asked to go and check the screen with a decision, didn't overturn it, and after that, has never been asked since?

Ref's, these two especially, are ego driven. As much as players and managers. These two get all the top gigs. These two, or Oliver, was paid by City's owners to go ref in the UAE and almost never gives a debatable decision against them? So yeah, I agree that ref's can easily be corrupt, or if not, ego driven arseholes others are scared to challenge. When you get VAR, Atwell, probably terrified to overruled either Taylor OR Oliver, then it's all fucked. Games are at the mercy of these two and it's absolutely open for corruption.

Attwell is just a patsy who is almost permanently on VAR because he toes the party line and backs up the referee. He came through as a very young referee, made the select group and then made some shocking decisions. He was demoted and basically doesn't want to make contentious decisions anymore.

This is telling the number of Liverpool games he gets as VAR compared to as referee.



Compare his numbers to Taylor and Oliver.

[Yorkykopite]

Compare his numbers to Taylor and Oliver.

A more interesting comparison would be to compare his numbers to Man City, Arsenal and Man United. He's refereed Liverpool twice this season and Arsenal and Man Utd once each and Man City never. So we might expect to see the same distribution across these four clubs. "If you want Stuart you'll find him in VAR room love". He's clearly a VAR man, not a referee for 'a big game'. That might say a lot about his stature (or his quiescence as you might have it), but it doesn't seem to say anything particular about Liverpool (apart from that we're a big club).
 

[JRed]

Attwell is just a patsy who is almost permanently on VAR because he toes the party line and backs up the referee. He came through as a very young referee, made the select group and then made some shocking decisions. He was demoted and basically doesn't want to make contentious decisions anymore.

This is telling the number of Liverpool games he gets as VAR compared to as referee.



Compare his numbers to Taylor and Oliver.

Isn’t Atwell the prick who gave a goal when the ball went 5 yards wide?

[Legs]

Isn’t Atwell the prick who gave a goal when the ball went 5 yards wide?

He gave a goal to Reading in the championship against Watford (Luton Town rivals!)

Think it was wide and went in the net somehow from the back and he gave it I mean seriously WTF

[Eeyore]

A more interesting comparison would be to compare his numbers to Man City, Arsenal and Man United. He's refereed Liverpool twice this season and Arsenal and Man Utd once each and Man City never. So we might expect to see the same distribution across these four clubs. "If you want Stuart you'll find him in VAR room love". He's clearly a VAR man, not a referee for 'a big game'. That might say a lot about his stature (or his quiescence as you might have it), but it doesn't seem to say anything particular about Liverpool (apart from that we're a big club).
 

Attwell has done a City game this season. He was in charge of the Community shield defeat. The game when Guardiola flipped when Trossard equalised in the 10th minute of added time. 

[Eeyore]

Isn’t Atwell the prick who gave a goal when the ball went 5 yards wide?

Good process Boys.


ATTWELL'S CONTROVERSIAL DECISIONS

Watford vs Reading, September 2008

A Reading corner was deflected over the goal-line, with Noel Hunt attempting unsuccessfully to flick it back into play. Assistant Nigel Bannister flagged for a goal, and Attwell awarded it.

What they said: 'Probably the worst decision I've ever witnessed in football,' according to Stephen Hunt - and he played for Reading.

Derby County vs Nottingham Forest, November 2008

Attwell disallowed two Derby goals in the final few minutes and showed a straight red card to Forest midfielder Lewis McGugan.

What they said: Derby manager Paul Jewell accused Attwell of 'losing control' and 'robbing' his team of a win.

Manchester City vs Wigan, April 2010

Gary Caldwell was shown a straight red card for a foul on Carlos Tevez, but the Latics defender looked to have played the ball and only struck his opponent with a trailing leg.

What they said: Wigan manager Roberto Martínez: 'To give a decision after something you don't see, that is lying. You are making it up.'

Stoke vs Bolton, April 2010

Matt Taylor scored with a low free-kick with five minutes remaining. Attwell had allowed Stoke to play on before awarding the free-kick after Bolton substitute Vladimir Weiss went to ground.

What they said: Stoke defender Danny Higginbotham claimed Attwell was influenced by 'who shouted the loudest'.

Liverpool vs Sunderland, September 2010

Attwell allowed a Dirk Kuyt goal after Michael Turner had touched a free-kick to goalkeeper Simon Mignolet, who believed the ball was still dead. Fernando Torres nicked it from him and set up Kuyt.

What they said: Sunderland boss Steve Bruce called the decision 'a joke'.

Bolton vs Tottenham, December 2011

Attwell showed Gary Cahill a straight red card for denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity with a professional foul on Scott Parker, who was 10 yards from the halfway line.

What they said: Bolton manger Owen Coyle was 'totally bemused'. Chairman Phil Gartside added it was an 'absolute disgrace'.

[Yorkykopite]

Attwell has done a City game this season. He was in charge of the Community shield defeat. The game when Guardiola flipped when Trossard equalised in the 10th minute of added time. 

Ah, the Community Shield. Right.

[Knight]

Barcelona threatening legal action over a failure to award a goal at the Classico on the weekend. This is what VAR does, once it’s possible to reassess decisions after they’ve been made it becomes possible to imagine reassessing after the game is over.

[Eeyore]

Ah, the Community Shield. Right.

Yeah piss City off with a decision and you don't get any more City games as Ref. Ask Simon Hooper.

Give them decisions and you get an all expenses paid trip to the UAE. I mean you have develop myopia so you miss Kovacic committing a couple of stonewall yellow/red card challenges. The myopia becomes so severe that you even see Doku drop-kick Macca.

I am sure his eyesight returns when he views his burgeoning bank balance though.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Barcelona threatening legal action over a failure to award a goal at the Classico on the weekend. This is what VAR does, once it’s possible to reassess decisions after they’ve been made it becomes possible to imagine reassessing after the game is over.

Nothing to do with VAR, for some strange reason they don't have goal line technology in La Liga.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

They're just bothering to use it anymore. Rugby tackles are now allowed.

[Barneylfc∗]

They're just bothering to use it anymore. Rugby tackles are now allowed.

It's absolutely pointless when fouls like that are allowed to go unpunished.

[farawayred]

It's absolutely pointless when fouls like that are allowed to go unpunished.

They've been allowed since John Terry's time...

[Historical Fool]

Yeah piss City off with a decision and you don't get any more City games as Ref. Ask Simon Hooper.

Give them decisions and you get an all expenses paid trip to the UAE. I mean you have develop myopia so you miss Kovacic committing a couple of stonewall yellow/red card challenges. The myopia becomes so severe that you even see Doku drop-kick Macca.

I am sure his eyesight returns when he views his burgeoning bank balance though.

What decisions were given before they referred in the SPL?

[The G in Gerrard]

So why wasn't Jackson shown a red for that challenge in first half yesterday?

[Romford_Red]

They've been allowed since John Terry's time...

I remember a Euros (or maybe WC?) when they first had VAR and they aggressively stamped all of that out. Loads of penalties were awarded. It was really nice.

[Barneylfc∗]

I remember a Euros (or maybe WC?) when they first had VAR and they aggressively stamped all of that out. Loads of penalties were awarded. It was really nice.

The 2018 world cup had lots of penalties. I made lots of money on it 

Noticed after the first load of games there were loads of pens. Bet365 offered odds on most games before kick off for first goal to be a penalty at about 14/1. The later the game went on, the higher those odds went.

So basically at the start of every match then after every goal I was betting on the first or next goal to be a penalty. I think there were one or 2 games with 2 pens which was nice. They caught on around the quarter final stage and cut the odds significantly and was no longer worth doing.

[swish]

i am lost with it all, after the fulham game they said jota was ahead but because the lines touched they give the attacker the benefit of the doubt.
then when its close a green line is drawn, surely the lines from the manure vs Coventry game the lines where touching? looking at the lines they drew over Wan-Bissaka's foot.

i would love to hear the audio from that 3rd dodgy pen decision against everton, how that's not a pen i will never know

[GreatEx]

Just forced myself to watch midweek highlights. Wolves getting absolutely reamed by VAR once again. Good thing we didn't consider O'Neil for manager.

[DangerScouse]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/41bde8e1-7f5c-4b3c-8cc1-3b8d9ce145b2?shareToken=c147db48f5b17184ce349835abeebce2

[Mister Flip Flop]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/41bde8e1-7f5c-4b3c-8cc1-3b8d9ce145b2?shareToken=c147db48f5b17184ce349835abeebce2

Well done to them. Very sensible decision. We've no VAR here in our league football in Ireland and i can't even begin to tell you how much more enjoyable it is compared to the rubbish we've seen in the prem the last couple of seasons. Goal celebrations that matter.

[Nick110581]

The non penalty in the Brighton game is hilarious