Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread

[Manila Kop]

Agreed.  It boggles the mind to think that if our players aren't going on loan to high profile clubs people assume that they are being done over.

Wow, some OTT sanctimony being served for breakfast this morning     I never said high profile clubs.  Merely wondering why we chose a League One club when the Mancs or Arsenal regularly manage to place their kids without first team experience in midtable/promotion-challenging Championship clubs.  Meanwhile Kelly's already played in Europe for us.

You can always argue the facts  like Bigbear did without condescension.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

[lfc_bhoy]

Wow, some OTT sanctimony being served for breakfast this morning     I never said high profile clubs.  Merely wondering why we chose a League One club when the Mancs or Arsenal regularly manage to place their kids without first team experience in midtable/promotion-challenging Championship clubs.  Meanwhile Kelly's already played in Europe for us.

You can always argue the facts  like Bigbear did without condescension.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

If you see my post, before the post you took issue with, you'll see I did just that.  Huddersfield aren't bottom of the table, like you assumed, and are a good place for a young developing defender.  Kelly is a good young defender, and yes he's played in Europe, but that doesn't entitle him to any special treatment.  Fact is, if Huddersfield want to stay in the position they're in they need to shore up their defense, as they've conceded 4 more then the team below them and 23 more then the team above them.

[Manila Kop]

That's the point.  You didn't need to pour on the sanctimonious bit.  I took your point about Huddersfield on board and it makes more sense with that context.  That's why I was asking how people felt about it in the first place. 

[lfc_bhoy]

That's the point.  You didn't need to pour on the sanctimonious bit.  I took your point about Huddersfield on board and it makes more sense with that context.  That's why I was asking how people felt about it in the first place. 

No worries, as it happens I was born sanctimonious.

[Shabby]

Wow, some OTT sanctimony being served for breakfast this morning     I never said high profile clubs.  Merely wondering why we chose a League One club when the Mancs or Arsenal regularly manage to place their kids without first team experience in midtable/promotion-challenging Championship clubs.  Meanwhile Kelly's already played in Europe for us.

You can always argue the facts  like Bigbear did without condescension.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

To be honest I think it's probably a little too late in the season for Championship sides to take him on, as the stakes are high and Kelly has no first team experience. If he can get a few league one games under his belt this season then maybe a loan move to a Championship side could be a possibility for next season.

[bathoz]

Frankly, I think his champions league experience means next to nothing (especially for people trying to loan him). He's a young defender. Not a striker. He's got years of learning ahead. And why not do it at Huddersfield.

Remember that the biggest difference between Reserve football and any sort of competitive stuff is the pace. He'll get that in Div 1.

[Manila Kop]

Frankly, I think his champions league experience means next to nothing (especially for people trying to loan him). He's a young defender. Not a striker. He's got years of learning ahead. And why not do it at Huddersfield.

Remember that the biggest difference between Reserve football and any sort of competitive stuff is the pace. He'll get that in Div 1.

Don't mind the experience he's getting but it's more a comment on our club's ability to place young players.  Kelly's one of the higher-rated defenders in the club and there's not that big a difference between the Manc reserves and our reserve players is there?  I think we're still behind in establishing the relationships with managers in the Championship to give us more options to farm out the reserves (i.e. Jonny Evans being loaned out to Sunderland before and after their promotion).  Either way though as you and bigbear pointed out, it's still competitive games which is better than reserve fixtures every 2 weeks.

[mig]

Astrix has joined Leicester until the end of the season.

http://www.lcfc.com/page/LatestNews/0,,10274~1603828,00.html

anyone know what the deal with him really is? he's a talent but why aren't we offering him a new deal?

[suede lady]

Astrit was not offered a new deal but allowed to train and play with LFC until he could find a new club. It seems that the player wanted to move away first but has not been able to find a suitable club.

[hassinator]

anyone know what the deal with him really is? he's a talent but why aren't we offering him a new deal?

apparently he expected to start for the reserves this year and demanded a move that has so far failed to materialise though he has been out on trial to a few teams at home and abroad.

mk - on the kelly tip i think the key point is to get get him games but also to toughen him up.  he will be away from home and outside his comfort zone.  if things go well he should indeed be at a bigger club next year and with terry mac on board i'm guessing huddersfield will play the right way though to be honest they are well off my radar

shabby's point is a good one too.  if teams are in with a shout of the play offs they would only want kelly as cover as the stakes are too high to take a chance on a young player who's not fully part of the club.

[Art Vandelay]

MCPARLAND TO HEAD UP ACADEMY REVIEW
Paul Eaton 27 March 2009

   Liverpool FC have appointed Frank McParland to undertake a strategic review of the club's Academy operation, which is based at Kirkby.
McParland was Liverpool Chief Scout for three years between 2004-07, before taking up the position of General Manager at Bolton Wanderers.
 
Manager Rafa Benitez explained: "When I signed my new contract, it was agreed I'd have a more significant influence at the Academy and this is an important step in assessing the future direction we will need to take.
 
"I value Frank's opinions and know him well from the time he spent working with me at Melwood. He will liaise closely with the staff at the Academy to produce a comprehensive analysis of the operation there before reporting back to me with his recommendations.
 
"Clearly, we need to move forward quickly, so Frank has already started work and will accompany the Under 18 team tomorrow when they travel to Huddersfield Town."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N163790090327-1529.htm

[RedSandgrounder]

"Review"? Is this just short term - or is he maybe a new Academy "director" like figure?

Good news anyway, knows both Rafa and Sammy Lee well, shows Rafa's new influence.

[b_joseph]

Rafa already putting his men in place. The only way is up......babay!!

[Vinay]

Rafa already putting his men in place. The only way is up......babay!!

For you and me now....


(Massive track, by the way!)

[JoeTwerp]

wish I  could have heard Rafa say "Huddersfield town"

[Shabby]

http://www.justin.tv/viplounge

U21 Spain - San Jose's starting

[Manila Kop]

How'd San Jose do?

[Maldini]

Thought he did well, he was Spain's best player at not at fault for either goal, brought the ball out well from the back. That's a pretty poor Spanish side though, can't remember one so weak as long as I've been watching them.

[Manila Kop]

Thanks Maldini...read the match report as well, the Spain lineup didn't seem impressive at all.

[stevensr123]

Just been on a Leicester City forum and had a look at what they were saying about hobbs.

The thread was about them bidding 400k for him, most were saying it would be a steal etc

Then someone posted this

"CONFIRMED

I did post a week ago that Leicester would want to buy him. However I did post it in the middle of another thread. I am getting a bit parnoid.

Hobbs and Leicester want the deal, waiting on Liverpool. Would think a Liverpool source leaked the info to see if anyone else is interested.

Hobbs has never thought of himself as a "Liverpool player"He was forced to sign a new two year contract with Liverpool before he joined Leicester. If he had not he would have had a season in Liverpool reserves and looking for a new club himself at the end of the season and Liverpool still getting a fee."

Going by what people were saying, it seems the guy is ITK.

[Manila Kop]

That is WAY too cheap for Hobbs, I hope we hold out for a better fee if we are releasing Hobbs.

On a side note, anyone know why Martin wasn't playing in goal for Leicester yesterday?

[Manila Kop]

Just saw this on the Guardian website this morning, puts the Leicester ITK comments about Hobbs in context.

Super-size me
Liverpool have 62 professionals on their books, and the other title contenders have huge squads, but there are no rules against it
o Jamie Jackson
o The Observer, Sunday 29 March 2009

"Ideally, you would want 23 or 24 and then have academy players of a ­sufficient quality to back them up. If you have more than 25, it is difficult to have a meaningful training session." Mark Hughes, Manchester City manager

"It has become all about resources. Clubs can now buy so many players that 10 or 20 guys who could be top players ­elsewhere cannot play." Johan Cruyff

Those comments were made within the past fortnight on a topic that will be much debated over the coming weeks – squad sizes in professional football. Among others who have had their say is Uefa's general secretary, David Taylor, who calls the situation in English football ­"ridiculous". England's record cap-holder, Peter Shilton, is "flabbergasted". Gordon Taylor, chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association, accepts that the numbers at Premier League clubs are "very high". Craig Lindfield, a Liverpool forward on loan at Accrington Stanley, finds it "frustrating". His team-mate Jack Hobbs, loaned to Leicester, finds his predicament ­"demoralising" and feels "stale".

There is no Premier League rule to stop one club having more than twice as many ­players as another, which is the case for Liverpool, who have the most professionals on their books and Bolton, who have the least. "Squad sizes are a matter for the clubs," is the Premier League's official line. Lindfield and Hobbs, both 20, are two of the 62 contracted players assembled by Rafael Benítez at Anfield, while Gary Megson has to make do with 27 at the Reebok Stadium. Even given the relentless, top-speed nature of Premier League football, and the demands of chasing four or five trophies, it seems a gargantuan number for any club to be able to choose from, or want to employ. And, in times of recession, to pay for.

Observer Sport's investigation into the Anfield 62, and the implications for the wider game, was met with bemusement everywhere – even from defensive ­Premier League representatives – whenever the figure was mentioned.

"Ridiculous. Sixty-two? You can only field 11 at one time," said Uefa's Taylor, whose employers insist on a 25-man squad limit for the Champions League. "Work it out for yourself. Training would be interesting with all these guys ­running about looking for 11 jerseys – you could have two full-size practise games." With plenty of substitutes.

Taylor is right. Even without the 17 players who have been on loan this ­season (see panel below) Benítez is left with 45, nearly twice as many as Hughes's ideal number of 24, a figure José ­Mourinho also insisted on when he began his ­successful tenure at ­Chelsea in 2004, while Luiz Felipe Scolari named between 23 and 25 as his ideal squad size when he took over at Stamford Bridge.

Should the Premier League clubs have a limit? "That's what we do in our ­competitions," said Taylor. "But that's for organisers of domestic leagues to decide among the clubs. We think it has ­benefits, it allows the introduction of other rules – like home-grown ­players. It's not just squad size itself, but the ­beneficial ­effect it can have, particularly on young and local talent. So the two measures go ­together.

"Uefa has been in the vanguard of this and we certainly feel it's very useful."

Taylor's comments echoed last week's views from William Gaillard, special ­adviser to the Uefa president, Michel Platini. "One proposal, which seems to be gaining a consensus, is limiting [the number of] professional contracts as we already do in the Champions League," Gaillard said. "But we would need to get the backing of the major clubs, of the associations running their domestic competitions."

Taylor was unsure what benefit ­Liverpool might gain from having so many professionals. "You'd have to ask them," he said. The club, when asked precisely this question, declined to ­comment. "It's an open question as to how many you actually need," said ­Taylor. "Is it 20, 25?"

Certainly not 62, then. It is not only Liverpool who have dozens on the payroll. Unsurprisingly, the other members of the Premier League's Big Four, who tend to hoover up all the major trophies, have the largest squads. According to their own official websites Arsenal can call on 59 players, Manchester United 51, Chelsea 46.

Liverpool, though, lead the way. ­According to most recent figures from Deloittes, the accountants who ­specialise in football, Liverpool paid out more than £77.5m in players' wages for the season ending in 2007.

A professional at a Premier League club, even one who is a long way from the reserve team, would earn a minimum of £1,000 a week, and most earn ­considerably more. If 30 players were trimmed from Liverpool's squad to leave 32 – still eight more than Hughes' and Mourinho's ideal number – the saving in wages would be several million pounds. Instead, Benítez has opted for ­quantity in his recruitment policy – remember the club are struggling to refinance their £350m debt by a summer deadline – and has to farm out countless players on loan.

For some, the dream of performing in front of a packed Anfield has translated into a grimmer reality of almost zero ­contact with Benítez and disillusionment about the future. "I haven't spoken to Rafa in a while," confirmed Hobbs, who was 17 when he signed from Lincoln and said he played 18 matches during a season in Liverpool's reserves. Hobbs wanted to play competitive football and is, he said, happy to be now closing in on 50 Football League appearances following loans at Scunthorpe and Leicester.

Gordon Taylor, head of the players' union, said: "Remember, there's only one first team and clubs are not always ­totally committed to reserve football. That means a heck of a lot of good players on the bench. We've just done a survey on the number of players loaned out. While some are successes it doesn't always work out that way."

Godwin Antwi is a 20-year-old Ghanaian defender who is concerned that his career is at a crossroads. Alongside Hobbs and Lindfield, he was a member of the Liverpool team that won the first of successive FA Youth Cups in 2006, defeating Man­chester City 3-2. He has just finished a loan spell at Hereford, his fourth club since being signed by Benítez from Real Zaragoza in 2005. This season he will play no more professional football. He is finished with Liverpool. In the summer Antwi hopes his agent, who is based in Spain, can find him a fifth and, this time, permanent club. He is desperate to play regularly.

"There's no chance of me accepting a new deal as I won't play in the first team at Liverpool. I don't know why. When I signed, Rafa and [former chief scout] Paco Herrera told me, 'Do your best.' But I can't remember the last time I spoke with Rafa, not properly ­anyway."

Did he ever think the breakthrough might come? "When we won the FA Youth Cup – that was the time. City's team had Micah Richards, Michael Johnson, Ched Evans and Daniel Sturridge, all first-team players now. But Liverpool signed Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel in my position."

Meanwhile, Lindfield is playing for Accrington Stanley, having started the season at Bournemouth after previous loans with Chester and Notts County. "I've been at Liverpool since I was seven – it's all I've known," he said. "Most young players who want to learn their trade would do it better in the lower leagues than in the reserves." This view was echoed by all the Liverpool loanees Observer Sport spoke with.

"You learn a lot more playing with people's livelihoods on the line. And it helps you mature as a person."

Lindfield, who has made 10 League starts since joining Stanley in January, was also a member of the Liverpool FA Youth Cup side and talks of it being considered a golden generation within the club. "The so-called Dream Team – Steve Heighway called us that. He was the academy head, but took a liking to our age group who were pretty much together all the way through. The under-18 coach usually does the Youth Cup, but Steve ­Heighway thought that highly of us he took over."

Lindfield, like Hobbs and Anwti, mentioned the City players in the 2006 final who had gone on to establish themselves. What of that Liverpool team? "Jack Hobbs has made a few appearances, and recently there's been Jay Spearing and Stephen Darby."

The three have made a grand total of nine appearances. "That's the ­difference between Liverpool and other clubs, young lads get more of a chance elsewhere," Lindfield added.

Is this because of the numbers at the club? "Yeah. It's a massive squad. All the professionals at Melwood [the club's training complex] – there's about 50 players in total," Lindfield said, somewhat underestimating the number. "There's only about nine or 10 English lads so that speaks for itself, doesn't it?"

Does that make it more difficult to get a chance? "With Liverpool ­having a Spanish manager he's got a lot of ­knowledge of Spanish football so he's brought in quite a lot of Spanish lads," said Lindfield. (There are nine on the books.) "Getting off to Melwood from the academy is supposedly the hardest step but you're in the reserve team of about 30 lads, and really you're as far away as you have been. It's not like the old days when there were six or seven reserves and the rest were filled by first-team players."

While Robbie Threlfall, another member of that victorious Youth Cup team, has just returned from a trial with Swedish club Djurgardens, Adam Hammill is at Barnsley having previously played on loan with Blackpool, Southampton and Dunfermline where he experienced the Scottish FA Cup final two years ago.

"At 18 you'd be naive to think you're going to break into Liverpool's first team. You'd have to be a Gerrard, Owen or Rooney. It's also a hell of a lot of pressure to be playing for your home-town team," said Hammill, a 21-year-old midfielder who has made seven League appearances since arriving at Oakwell last month.

"Darren Potter and Danny Guthrie were ahead of me [in age] and did well on loan. They ended up playing a few games for the first team. So if I do well I might get my chance. I'm a Liverpool player and want my future there. If not, well, the only way is down but you can try and work your way back up that ladder."

How do Liverpool monitor a player's development while he is on loan? "They evaluate you at the end of the season and send scouts to watch in certain games. But you don't get much feedback. The only feedback is off the manager you're playing for, your agent and your family."

Gordon Taylor and the PFA have done their own evaluation of players' careers. "Six hundred players each year join Premier and Football League clubs at age 16. Of those, 500 will be out of the game by 21. It's a big wastage and not good enough. We have got to look at improving the success rate of academies and centres of excellence.

"Those who don't make it at the top don't necessarily make it lower down. That can be a tougher set-up where skills and technique don't always count as much as strength and competitiveness. We're finding a big black hole between 19 and 21. That's a big worry to us, it's why we have to think seriously."

Taylor stressed that he was not in the business of limiting employment ­opportunities, but he was keen to see some adjustments. "There's a great deal of money invested. That's why we're very much in favour of a system whereby out of a squad of 25, for example, you'd have at least eight to 10, irrespective of nationality, come through a development programme at that club or in that country."

Regarding Liverpool, he was refreshingly frank. "From the sides that won the Youth Cup, I don't know if a player was given an opportunity at first-team level. It's amazing we focus on ­Stevie Gerrard and Jamie Carragher because they are just the last two homegrown players now in that team."

For central defender Hobbs, as with all those on the periphery hoping for a way in at Liverpool, this is a live issue. "I was talking to an old school teacher the other day. Look at our Youth Cup side – not one has broken into the first team. You get to a decision where you think, 'Is it worth playing reserve games and getting a little bit stale waiting for your chance? Or do you go out and get the experience?'

"He [Benítez] brought in Skrtel, and there's Agger, Carragher and Hyypia so I was down the bottom. I'm really grateful I went out on loan now and am chasing 50 League games."

Hobbs has the most first-team appearances of that 2006 side – all five came last season, including a lone Premier League start against Reading – yet the breakthrough never came. "I was thinking I could be involved a bit more. But then he [Benítez] went out and bought Skrtel for a record signing for a centre-back. It's quite demoralising when you're working to get your chance and they just buy in multi-million pound players.

"But Liverpool are one of the top clubs in the world. You wouldn't expect it to be easy. The way I look at it is if I play every game as well as I can I'm going to end up where I deserve. Ideally, I'd love to be playing for Liverpool every week, but the truth is it's going to be very difficult."

Ricky Parry, Liverpool's outgoing chief executive, is thought to have fallen out with Benítez over player recruitment. Apparently, it was a major reason why Parry was forced out. So how Parry's replacement deals with Benítez's penchant for stockpiling players could be interesting to watch. Given the background of the club's owners, the new man may be an American.

Uefa have followed the model of American sports. Major League ­Soccer insists on a season-long roster of 24 players, while American football and ­basketball have squad limits of 53 and 15 ­respectively. With Liverpool flying in the Premier and Champions League, Benítez is all-powerful. But a trophyless season added to the dire financial climate – and who knows if Tom Hicks and George Gillett will still be in control – might at least prompt a discussion about the Anfield 62. After all, Sunderland's Texas-based owner Ellis Short was so upset on discovering he was bankrolling 47 players that it caused the departure of Roy Keane.

And any wide-ranging debate over squad size and finances might, in the long term, be good for the health of football.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/mar/29/premier-league-huge-squads

[Pawlu]

The situation at Liverpool is alarming but we all know that what led to it was Benitez's inability to have a say on the academy which led him to set up his own mini-academy.

All the players mentioned in the article are right, of course, but you have to put things in perspective.  Lindfield has been struggling in League Two, despite all the promise that he showed at Dunfermline Hamill has struggled at both Southampton and Blackpool whilst Tranmere couldn't wait to get rid of Godwin Antwi.  So it is hardly surprising that they haven't come close to the Liverpool first team.

As for Hobbs, well, he has reasons to be bitter but you can't really fault Benitez for chosing to go for Martin Skrtel and Daniel Agger.  Liverpool had enough faith to pay £700k for him so they were hardly going to let him out on loan and run down his contract, allowing him to leave for free.

[Shaded Red]

That's a stupid article of lazy journalism. I'm assuming the 62 players come from the official website and includes Voronin, Pennant, Itandje; those away on loan as well just some of those still playing for the youth team.

So we should play Hobbs ahead of Skrtel and Lindfield ahead of Torres? So Richards, Sturridge et al have made it to the first team...so we should also do the same and be where they are in the table?

[Mr_Morosoph]

The situation at Liverpool is alarming but we all know that what led to it was Benitez's inability to have a say on the academy which led him to set up his own mini-academy.

All the players mentioned in the article are right, of course, but you have to put things in perspective.  Lindfield has been struggling in League Two, despite all the promise that he showed at Dunfermline Hamill has struggled at both Southampton and Blackpool whilst Tranmere couldn't wait to get rid of Godwin Antwi.  So it is hardly surprising that they haven't come close to the Liverpool first team.

As for Hobbs, well, he has reasons to be bitter but you can't really fault Benitez for chosing to go for Martin Skrtel and Daniel Agger.  Liverpool had enough faith to pay £700k for him so they were hardly going to let him out on loan and run down his contract, allowing him to leave for free.

Hammill never struggled at Blackpool, they wanted to loan him for the rest of the season. He had an offer from Sheffield United aswell but he chose Barnsley where he's a regular in their starting line-up. Their fans want him on loan for next season aswell but feel they have little chance, that would tell you he's doing pretty well there.
I don't think the others can honestly have any arguments to be in our squad but next season I hope to see Hammill get the opportunities that El Zhar has been given this season, or even just having a few chances in pre-season. If he's not good enough then fair enough but at least he's been given a shot.

[Mr_Morosoph]

That is WAY too cheap for Hobbs, I hope we hold out for a better fee if we are releasing Hobbs.

On a side note, anyone know why Martin wasn't playing in goal for Leicester yesterday?

He's been injured for quite a while now with a rib/back problem.

[Brigor Cheyaore]

crap article, it took forever to get to one of the only meaningful quotes:

"But Liverpool are one of the top clubs in the world. You wouldn't expect it to be easy. The way I look at it is if I play every game as well as I can I'm going to end up where I deserve. Ideally, I'd love to be playing for Liverpool every week, but the truth is it's going to be very difficult."

In theory, Hobbs benefited from training with the first team and from working with Liverpool's better coaching and facilities instead of Lincoln City's.  He then gets a chance to go out on loan and find his level, be it in the Championship or with Liverpool or wherever....  What's the problem?

And what's the point of quotes from Lindfield, Antwi, and Threllfall, acting like they're all stars who just never got the chance?  They'd have a complaint if they were left in the reserves after a few seasons there (Spearing might have a case) but that's not what has happened - they're just not very good, and they're being given the chance to find out at what level they belong.  Again, how is this a problem?

also...

According to most recent figures from Deloittes, the accountants who ­specialise in football, Liverpool paid out more than £77.5m in players' wages for the season ending in 2007.

A decent journalist would provide some context... what are other clubs spending, how much per player, etc.

"Most young players who want to learn their trade would do it better in the lower leagues than in the reserves."

which is exactly what Lindfield has the chance to do, except he also got the benefit of years with (supposedly) top class coaches and facilities.  He comes off as very bitter, he's blaming the squad size for his lack of talent.

At least Hammill has a decent attitude about it

"Darren Potter and Danny Guthrie were ahead of me [in age] and did well on loan. They ended up playing a few games for the first team. So if I do well I might get my chance. I'm a Liverpool player and want my future there. If not, well, the only way is down but you can try and work your way back up that ladder."[/i]

[Passmaster Molby]

Simple fact is we do have way too many young players in our reserves, but that came about through the arguments over the academy and I am sure this summer we will see a bloodbath in terms of culling the numbers. Would not be surprised to see our squad size trimmed to about 40 players.

[Mr_Morosoph]

Simple fact is we do have way too many young players in our reserves, but that came about through the arguments over the academy and I am sure this summer we will see a bloodbath in terms of culling the numbers. Would not be surprised to see our squad size trimmed to about 40 players.

I expect the same especially as we have so many of our talented u18s that will need to be promoted to the reserves next season aswell as I remember reading that ALL of our u16s have been given scholarships for next season.

[JoeTwerp]

not a very good article but we should just sell off some of these players:

Itandje, Lindfield, Flynn, Crowther, Roque, Threlfall, Voronin, Brouwer, Antwi, Ajdarevic, Mihaylov, Hansen, Plessis, Simon, Flora, Mendy, Degen (17)

And then maybe sell: Huth, El Zhar, Putterill, GMS, Duran, Bruna, Anderson, Hammill, Martin and Ayala (10)

plus the loss of Pennant

And I would look to see if I could get a really good price on Babel, Lucas, and Dossena.

[Passmaster Molby]

I expect the same especially as we have so many of our talented u18s that will need to be promoted to the reserves next season aswell as I remember reading that ALL of our u16s have been given scholarships for next season.

Yeah I heard that too so if we do promote say 8-10 of the academy squad then thats even more players added to the list.

[ElMagico]

not a very good article but we should just sell off some of these players:

Itandje, Lindfield, Flynn, Crowther, Roque, Threlfall, Voronin, Brouwer, Antwi, Ajdarevic, Mihaylov, Hansen, Plessis, Simon, Flora, Mendy, Degen (17)

And then maybe sell: Huth, El Zhar, Putterill, GMS, Duran, Bruna, Anderson, Hammill, Martin and Ayala (10)

plus the loss of Pennant

And I would look to see if I could get a really good price on Babel, Lucas, and Dossena.

And then what? Have 3 reserve players?

[Rafadom]

All that article does is provide a glimpse of how stupid footballers are.

If Jack Hobbs, Lindfield ever thaught they were going to play for this club they are dreaming who the fuck do they think they are saying their better than skrtel and agger both high class internationals. They are both playing at the level suited to them that is all.

They should enjoy because it may not last for long. Also the comment about to many foreigners was way out of line possibly taken out of context as the guardian maybe trying to imply certain things.

Personally with Rafa getting the new contract and more control of the academy i can see alot of our current reserves etc being sold off. We have heard from Dave U that many of the current academy players have been held back because of parry etc. Now that is over i can see many of the reserves players being sold while keeping the better talents like, San Hose, Kelly Huth, Insua Pacheco and probably Nemeth the likes of Derby and Spearing i imagine will go on loan the rest including academy players will be told to find new teams much like Antwi.

Their are going to alot of changes and i think we will see a huge amount of possitives coming through. I imagine Rafa will likely allow academy layers to play both reserve and the academy league. This will more than likely boost their development through more games which is something Rafa has always said about.

Great Talent will always shine through and Rafa will never miss them. He is to good a coach to miss such bright lights. Id much Rather put my faith in judgement of a player from Rafa rather than the player himself like Hobbs.

[Manila Kop]

And then what? Have 3 reserve players?

To be fair to JoeTerp, most of the players he suggested we sell are halfway out the door anyway (Antwi, Itandje, Voronin, Lindfeld, Mihaylove, Adjarevic, Brouwer, etc.).  The point the article is making and that JT's caught on to - lost in the midst of this 'journalist in shite-stirring shocker' - is that our squad can afford to let go of maybe 10-15 players without any noticeable detriment to our on-field capabilities either with the first team or the reserves. 

With McParland's review of the Academy, we'll also see a streamlining of the youth players there.  That plus the promotion of Academy players next season should help cut down on the bloatedness of our squad and give the players who are left the best chance of making it.

[Brissie Red]

Couldn't agree more with the above comments. I can understand the frustrations of Threlfall, Lindfield and Antwi, but those 3 are making themselves out to be good enough to play first team football with Liverpool. I mean Antwi going 'but he bought Skrtel instead". Ofcours he did, if I was Rafa, I certainly wouldn't want a player who struggles with Tranmere Rovers to be marking a Wayne Rooney, Adebayor or Drogba. I even think it's sad that many of these young players will never get an opportunity with the 1st team, but what are we going to do?
Play these players and become a mid table team? Only the finest of youngsters like Insua will get the opporunity at Liverpool and that's the way it will always be, and what I expect it to be.
Again, it is sad but what are we going to call ourselves, the club that allows all local youngsters a go and boast about it while we slip down the ladder. It's the reality of being one of the world's best football club, we're not a Sunday league team. We're Liverpool. 

[b_joseph]

That is quite sad really. I do feel for the young lads because I'm sure there will be the feeling that they have no chance of ever playing for the 1st team.

Guys like Jay Spearing. He probably thinks he might get a chance next season but if we sign Gareth Barry to be part of a 4-man rotation in centre mid. He'll have no chance.


Fine line between depth and having chaos of numbers.

[fowlerisgod96]

The Manchester City players mentioned really stood out when they were kids though, thats the difference.

These 'kids' who are moaning about not getting a chance need to take a long hard look in the mirror to try and realise the reason they're not. Antwi for fuck sake, that lad would have been worse than Pellegrino was for us. Hobbs has had matches and been average at best. The reason for them not getting their chance has got very little to do with having a Spanish manager, and everything to do with them just not being good enough.

[LFCfan4Life]

its funny really because some of those listed as first teamers still play for the U-18's

Also they picked players who just aren't good enough to play for liverpool, we have a few kids we all want to see but i would say none of them are quoted in this article, except probably Hammil.

[RedAtHeart]

Some of these kids must simply suck it up and get their heads down. Yes we would probably all like to see Nemeth, Hammill etc get their chance, but for the love of god, Lindfield? If these boys can't impress when going on loan to league 1 when they approach 20 years, then there is an extremely slim chance of them ever becoming good enough for the 1st team. As far as I'm concerned, they boys who do good(Insua, Nemeth, Pacheco, Darby, to name a few on the top of my head) is either getting their chance, or are very likely to get it. Saying the young lads from City that lost to us in the Fa youth cup gets their chance, so we should get ours, is just bollocks. The youth team might be great as a unit, but all in all, that doesn't mean shit. What matters is getting up individuals that are good enough for the 1st team, and although the youth team may be good as any, we all know very few of them will make it. Thats what it is like at a top club, and if they can't handle that fact then they should try their luck elsewhere. No one forced them to join Liverpool. Those who moan seem to be those who can't even scratch a regular starting place for teams in lower divisions when going on loan, and although these teams sometimes prefer experienced players, and the tempo and physical part of the game in these divisions may be hard to get used to, that is rarely a sign of a great talent.

[Maldini]

I went through the youth cup winning teams of the last ten years the other day and out of all of them only David Wheater is still a regular at the club and only about 8 of them played more than 30 games for their respective clubs.