Author Topic: It's not about Lineker  (Read 7052 times)

Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #160 on: March 13, 2023, 02:24:06 pm »
Ye can all fuck off, it was my suggestion.

 :lmao
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Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #161 on: March 13, 2023, 02:24:41 pm »
And when it comes to the homeless, there are plenty of homes that stand empty and even boarded up as people sleep in the streets, because apparently shelter is something that has to be earned or somehow justified.

As with food, there's likely more than enough to go around, but as we live in a world where everything has a price, only those who can afford it benefit.

Are you saying that food and housing should be provided free of charge? If so, who should this be provided to everyone? If not, what should the eligibility criteria be.

I am seeing a lot of simple solutions to complex problems in here. Perhaps if you read up on what conservatism actually is you would learn something.
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #162 on: March 13, 2023, 02:26:19 pm »
Many directors receive shares as part of their remuneration package or receive them at 'mates rates'.

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/director-shares

Stop digging. We all make mistakes. Dividends are paid to shareholders. A director who is also a shareholder is paid a dividend in his / her capacity as a shareholder.
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #163 on: March 13, 2023, 02:27:37 pm »
The system is overwhelmed by unprecedented numbers of arrivals and a system that is too generous as to appeals. There is also a separate problem of how difficult it is to deport people that have exhausted their appeal rights and have no right to be here.

More resources would help, but this has to be balanced against other spending needs.

Didn't you say immigration peaked in the 90s?

I wonder why system wasn't overwhelmed between 1997-2010?
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #164 on: March 13, 2023, 02:28:29 pm »
Are you saying that food and housing should be provided free of charge? If so, who should this be provided to everyone? If not, what should the eligibility criteria be.

I am seeing a lot of simple solutions to complex problems in here. Perhaps if you read up on what conservatism actually is you would learn something.

So you're comfortable with the system as it is?

And frankly, yes. If the alternative is letting people starve, or freeze, you bet I'm all for letting people stay in unused housing and eating free food. It's called compassion.

You say these problems are complex. Maybe they're not as complex as we have been led to believe?

The Government is literally paying energy companies money because people are being priced out of heating their own fucking homes. That is not the fault of refugees.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 02:30:39 pm by Red Beret »
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #165 on: March 13, 2023, 02:28:36 pm »
If you knew anything about law, you would understand that this is the starting point.  The difficult bit is interpretation.

In my view, the law has been poorly interpreted. I don't see how a court can reasonably conclude that any Albanian or Indian can satisfy that test. Views obviously differ on this. Arguing about that is literally what lawyers do. Lawyers are required to recognise precedent but we are not required to agree that the decision was correct. You often have judgments where one of the judges thinks the case has been decided wrongly.   

As you note, that convention is from 1951.  The world has changed a lot since then and in my view, the existing framework no longer works.

I am not going to explain again (i) that lawyers and non-lawyers can disagree about what the law is or whether cases were decided correctly; (ii) that there are grey areas in law; or (iii) that there is a difference between arguing over what the law is and what the law should be.
Laws (and treaties) are not whatever you wish them to be. Of course, they can/might be changed. But instead of arguing for change, you instead state that the vast majority of specialist legal opinion, case law, courts (including the Supreme Court) are all wrong and you are correct.
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #166 on: March 13, 2023, 02:30:07 pm »
The system is overwhelmed by unprecedented numbers of arrivals...

Yet... Germany, France, Sweden, the USA...
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #167 on: March 13, 2023, 02:31:36 pm »
If not, what should the eligibility criteria be.



My 'criteria' would be 'need'.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #168 on: March 13, 2023, 02:32:12 pm »
The system is overwhelmed by unprecedented numbers of arrivals and a system that is too generous as to appeals. There is also a separate problem of how difficult it is to deport people that have exhausted their appeal rights and have no right to be here.

More resources would help, but this has to be balanced against other spending needs. 

It's overwhelmed because of the shitshow service that the Tories now provide after more than a decade of mismanagement, austerity and incompetance.

You can say the same thing about pretty much every part of the UK. The UK now in my opinion is a failed state. We have a non-functioning law system; The prisons, courts and probation services are on their knees, the Police, fire, ambulance and NHS services are on their knees. Mental health services have mostly been decimated, we have far more homeless and helpless people than we've ever had, our schools, colleges and councils are crumbling and in every single area of life across the board - across the divide and across communities the UK has been fucked by the Tories in every way they can for quick fixes, mates favours and outright corruption.

And you're blaming some lad on a boat with his kid for all that shite? You're off your fucking chump mate.
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #169 on: March 13, 2023, 02:32:25 pm »
Stop digging. We all make mistakes. Dividends are paid to shareholders. A director who is also a shareholder is paid a dividend in his / her capacity as a shareholder.
;D

The swag in this post! Must be great to finally get something right.

Did someone say 'right'?

Ahem!
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #170 on: March 13, 2023, 02:32:32 pm »
Didn't you say immigration peaked in the 90s?

I wonder why system wasn't overwhelmed between 1997-2010?

*Raises hand*

I know.. I know...

 ;D
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #171 on: March 13, 2023, 02:33:26 pm »
Ye can all fuck off, it was my suggestion.
Look at you, trying to take the credit. I think you'll find it was a RAWK Admin who changed rightpeg's username. :P
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #172 on: March 13, 2023, 02:36:17 pm »
Look at you, trying to take the credit. I think you'll find it was a RAWK Admin who changed rightpeg's username. :P

Yes of course it was, after my suggestion. If only I had the power to change usernames, no one would be safe.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #173 on: March 13, 2023, 02:36:26 pm »
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #174 on: March 13, 2023, 02:37:27 pm »
Meanwhile...

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/OhFyAmoMWI8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/OhFyAmoMWI8</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhFyAmoMWI8
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Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #175 on: March 13, 2023, 02:37:52 pm »
Didn't you say immigration peaked in the 90s?

I wonder why system wasn't overwhelmed between 1997-2010?

No.  I said it spiked in the 90s.  The peak of net immigration to date was 2008 (though it looks as if 2022 may now take the record). Post 2008 you have the fall out from the GFC, then Brexit and then the pandemic. Numbers where still huge though.  Net immigration has been around 300,000 for a while now.

I raised this in response to the idea that the UK had always been a high-immigration society. It hasn't. People bang on and on about the Hugenots which was actually an unusual occurrence for the UK.

You are conflating immigration and asylum.  There is no reason that high levels of immigration would overwhelm the asylum system.  They are not the same thing. Try and keep up.
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #176 on: March 13, 2023, 02:38:07 pm »
Yes of course it was, after my suggestion. If only I had the power to change usernames, no one would be safe.

 ;D
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #177 on: March 13, 2023, 02:38:55 pm »
Yes of course it was, after my suggestion. If only I had the power to change usernames, no one would be safe.
Damn. I guess we had best get in our objections now before you are considered for RAWK Administrator.
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #178 on: March 13, 2023, 02:41:51 pm »
They are not the same thing. Try and keep up.

No. YOU keep up!

You're the one that wants to stop (small boat) asylum applications because there may (or may not) be some 'illegal immigrants' mixed in.

It's YOU that's conflating the two issues.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #179 on: March 13, 2023, 02:42:13 pm »
Meanwhile...

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/OhFyAmoMWI8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/OhFyAmoMWI8</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhFyAmoMWI8
I wonder if everything stated there by Davie chimes with whatever agreement was hammered out with Lineker?
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #181 on: March 13, 2023, 02:44:37 pm »
I wonder if everything stated there by Davie chimes with whatever agreement was hammered out with Lineker?

There's some quotes from Lineker in the Grauniad piece - link above. :)
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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #182 on: March 13, 2023, 02:48:01 pm »
It's not really though is it? You're complaining about asylum seekers being a drain on resources, but there is plenty of resources to go around, they just happen make their way disproportionally in to the hands of a select few.

He's not interested in that though - doesn't suit his agenda.

Offline A Red Abroad

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Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #184 on: March 13, 2023, 02:50:55 pm »
The system is overwhelmed by unprecedented numbers of arrivals and a system that is too generous as to appeals. There is also a separate problem of how difficult it is to deport people that have exhausted their appeal rights and have no right to be here.

More resources would help, but this has to be balanced against other spending needs. 



Source: https://www.ein.org.uk/news/house-commons-library-publishes-informative-new-statistical-overview-number-asylum-seekers-uk#toc9

'Unprecedented' my arse. There was a huge spike in asylum applications in the aftermath of the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The difference between then and now is that then the processing system was given enough resources to handle all the applications.



Source: https://freemovement.org.uk/briefing-the-sorry-state-of-the-uk-asylum-system/
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 02:53:43 pm by TheShanklyGates »
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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #185 on: March 13, 2023, 02:52:09 pm »
Are you saying that food and housing should be provided free of charge? If so, who should this be provided to everyone? If not, what should the eligibility criteria be.

I am seeing a lot of simple solutions to complex problems in here. Perhaps if you read up on what conservatism actually is you would learn something.

I'm guessing you haven't come across Universal Basic Income or Universal Basic Services.

Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #186 on: March 13, 2023, 02:52:31 pm »
As a slight aside... is there a list of Mods anywhere?

My 'RAWK Supporter' hasn't appeared and I set up the PayPal thing around a week ago.

(Apologies for the hijack). :)

Yay!  ;D
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Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #187 on: March 13, 2023, 02:53:21 pm »
No. YOU keep up!

You're the one that wants to stop (small boat) asylum applications because there may (or may not) be some 'illegal immigrants' mixed in.

It's YOU that's conflating the two issues.

No you're now conflating illegal immigration and legal immigration. Those figures don't include illegal immigration (how could they?) you absolute wally. Do you want to have another go? It's not my fault you can't hold more than one thought in your head.

Yes, I want to stop the small boats because they are an abuse of our asylum system and are used as a route to immigrate here illegally.  I also think we should take fewer asylum seekers as I think the current system is overly generous. It should, in my view, be limited to those escaping war (e.g. Ukraine) and people who are specifically at threat of persecution in a country that cannot or will not protect them.  India isn't perfect for example, but it is a largely functioning democracy that can protect its citizens for example. Iran and Syria are examples of places where many people will genuinely be in need of asylum because is either the one doing the persecution or failing to prevent it. 
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #188 on: March 13, 2023, 02:54:21 pm »


Source: https://www.ein.org.uk/news/house-commons-library-publishes-informative-new-statistical-overview-number-asylum-seekers-uk#toc9

'Unprecedented' my arse. There was a huge spike in asylum applications in the aftermath of the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The difference between then and now is that then the processing system was given enough resources to handle all the applications.



Source: https://freemovement.org.uk/briefing-the-sorry-state-of-the-uk-asylum-system/

 ;)
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Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #189 on: March 13, 2023, 02:55:01 pm »


Source: https://www.ein.org.uk/news/house-commons-library-publishes-informative-new-statistical-overview-number-asylum-seekers-uk#toc9

'Unprecedented' my arse. There was a huge spike in asylum applications in the aftermath of the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The difference between then and now is that then the processing system was given enough resources to handle all the applications.



Source: https://freemovement.org.uk/briefing-the-sorry-state-of-the-uk-asylum-system/

Then I retract "unprecedented" still very and unusually high by historic standards and it is of course a compounding problem.
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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #190 on: March 13, 2023, 02:55:16 pm »


Source: https://www.ein.org.uk/news/house-commons-library-publishes-informative-new-statistical-overview-number-asylum-seekers-uk#toc9

'Unprecedented' my arse. There was a huge spike in asylum applications in the aftermath of the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The difference between then and now is that then the processing system was given enough resources to handle all the applications.



Source: https://freemovement.org.uk/briefing-the-sorry-state-of-the-uk-asylum-system/

Exactly.

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #191 on: March 13, 2023, 02:56:40 pm »
Yet... Germany, France, Sweden, the USA...

Ah yes, Germany, France and Sweden.  Famously doing brilliantly when it comes to asylum.  Definitely no problems there.  Total coincidence that Sweden has become the gun and bomb crime capital of Europe since letting in vast numbers of refugees...

The US is very different for geographical reasons.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #192 on: March 13, 2023, 02:57:41 pm »
There's some quotes from Lineker in the Grauniad piece - link above. :)
Seems that was prior to the Sky News interview. I mean, the stuff about Lineker 'agreeing to abide by the editorial guidelines until the review is completed'. The guidelines do not apply to Lineker because: 1) he is not a political or new presenter; and 2) he's a freelancer. Davie also states that he believes their actions were proportionate and the right thing.
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #193 on: March 13, 2023, 02:58:03 pm »
No you're now conflating illegal immigration and legal immigration.

No I'm not.

you absolute wally. Do you want to have another go? It's not my fault you can't hold more than one thought in your head.

Aw! There it is.

You went and lost it, didn't you? Resorting to (pretty crap) insults - nice one.

I'll leave you to it.

Nobody here is going to change your mind anyway.

 :wave
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #194 on: March 13, 2023, 02:58:47 pm »


Source: https://www.ein.org.uk/news/house-commons-library-publishes-informative-new-statistical-overview-number-asylum-seekers-uk#toc9

'Unprecedented' my arse. There was a huge spike in asylum applications in the aftermath of the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The difference between then and now is that then the processing system was given enough resources to handle all the applications.
Great post.

For a guy who is trying to present themselves as calm and rational, and being the one person reasonable enough to handle this topic it's very noticeable how much hyperbole Bergers Right Peg is relying on. Suggests that he needs to try to be emotive and exaggerate for effect to 'win the argument', which goes against how he's trying to present himself as an arguer to be fair.

These are all direct quotes from this page (so within the last 45 minutes) alone:
"system no longer works", "overwhelmed", "unprecedented", "system that's too generous", 'drain on resources', "numbers were huge"

Everything is about

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #195 on: March 13, 2023, 02:58:47 pm »
You will also note that the trend is upwards and small boats in particular have increased a lot.  This is why it is so important to render that route unviable.  Unless of course you want people to keep drowning in the travel and for criminal gangs to keep making lots of money smuggling people?
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #196 on: March 13, 2023, 03:00:56 pm »
You will also note that the trend is upwards and small boats in particular have increased a lot.  This is why it is so important to render that route unviable.  Unless of course you want people to keep drowning in the travel and for criminal gangs to keep making lots of money smuggling people?

Why do you think there weren't huge numbers arriving by small boat from 2001-2003? Could it possibly be because the government of the time offered timely processing of applications and safe routes for legitimate asylum seekers?

I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #197 on: March 13, 2023, 03:02:07 pm »
Seems that was prior to the Sky News interview. I mean, the stuff about Lineker 'agreeing to abide by the editorial guidelines until the review is completed'. The guidelines do not apply to Lineker because: 1) he is not a political or new presenter; and 2) he's a freelancer. Davie also states that he believes their actions were proportionate and the right thing.

Yeah. We can't be sure what Lineker agreed to - although his tweets today included references to refugees (but not HM Gov 'policy').

These new guidelines will be interesting.
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #198 on: March 13, 2023, 03:02:26 pm »
No I'm not.

Aw! There it is.

You went and lost it, didn't you? Resorting to (pretty crap) insults - nice one.

I'll leave you to it.

Nobody here is going to change your mind anyway.

 :wave

You and others have been insulting me non-stop all day. It's a little rich of you to complain about this.
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Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #199 on: March 13, 2023, 03:03:35 pm »
Great post.

For a guy who is trying to present themselves as calm and rational, and being the one person reasonable enough to handle this topic it's very noticeable how much hyperbole Bergers Right Peg is relying on. Suggests that he needs to try to be emotive and exaggerate for effect to 'win the argument', which goes against how he's trying to present himself as an arguer to be fair.

These are all direct quotes from this page (so within the last 45 minutes) alone:
"system no longer works", "overwhelmed", "unprecedented", "system that's too generous", 'drain on resources', "numbers were huge"

Everything is about

 :thumbup
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.