Topic: Dealing with difficult colleagues

[ianburns252]

Figure this can work both for actual sensible advice and some top quality bitching!

Have started to notice more and more in the last few years that trying to get people to do their jobs is an unbelievable challenge.

I'm not talking about expecting people to work every hour going as that isn't for everyone but just doing simple tasks/their job!

There seems to be an attitude of impunity where they know that even if they don't do it it is so difficult for companies to deal with it through development measures that they can get away with it.

It does tend to be the younger generation (25-30ish) although, strangely, the new crop of graduates all have fantastic attitudes and maybe we will see an upswing once this middle group pass through?

Anyway, just looking to see what other people think, if they have had similar issues at their work places, any advice etc

[So… Howard Philips]

In the early 1970s as an 18 year I would under the “supervision” of two mid thirties, both of whom had learnt the full range if skiving skills during National Service.

They spent their time avoiding work, driving out to Makro in work time to buy cheap goods and talking about how they would retire early.

Guess what - both wangled early retirement at 50 so the malingerers have always been with us.

[ianburns252]

In the early 1970s as an 18 year I would under the “supervision” of two mid thirties, both of whom had learnt the full range if skiving skills during National Service.

They spent their time avoiding work, driving out to Makro in work time to buy cheap goods and talking about how they would retire early.

Guess what - both wangled early retirement at 50 so the malingerers have always been with us.

I have not doubt they have always been around - maybe the mechanism of skiving/approach has changed. It seems more brazen now - not just knowing how to duck and dive but simply not doing anything and gambling on there being no recourse.

[rob1966]

In the early 1970s as an 18 year I would under the “supervision” of two mid thirties, both of whom had learnt the full range if skiving skills during National Service.

They spent their time avoiding work, driving out to Makro in work time to buy cheap goods and talking about how they would retire early.

Guess what - both wangled early retirement at 50 so the malingerers have always been with us.

I "worked" for Liverpool City Council as a 16 yr old, apprentice painter with the city engineers doing the street furniture, lampposts, traffic signs, street name plates - fuck me that was top class skiving. It was supposed to be three coats of undercoat, 2 of gloss, it got one of each, It was green undercoat and grey gloss, it used to be grey for both til the biggest skiver ever (according to the lads) was made foreman and changed it - poacher turned game keeper. We'd start at 8 and if the foreman hadn't turned up by 1 we knew he wasn't coming and fucked off home. One arl fella used to do the full day, but then he'd done all his hours too early, so had to spend a month sitting in cafes cos he had fuck all to do. I did a week with him and hated it, going home at 4.

No wonder I skive so much

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I have not doubt they have always been around - maybe the mechanism of skiving/approach has changed. It seems more brazen now - not just knowing how to duck and dive but simply not doing anything and gambling on there being no recourse.

I think there's plenty of workplaces that just don't know how to handle performance issues properly. I some a few HR people who tell me how hopelessly inadequate many people managers are when it comes to actually doing their roles. Often, when anything resembling a difficult conversation needs to be had, they just pass it over to their HR contact. But in doing so are tacitly acknowledging that there's a big chunk of their own roles that they're incapable of doing (or unwilling to do).

I've also seen plenty of companies that performance manage by restructure. What I mean by that is that they defer any performance issues until the next restructure and use that to get rid of people.

[So… Howard Philips]

I "worked" for Liverpool City Council as a 16 yr old, apprentice painter with the city engineers doing the street furniture, lampposts, traffic signs, street name plates - fuck me that was top class skiving. It was supposed to be three coats of undercoat, 2 of gloss, it got one of each, It was green undercoat and grey gloss, it used to be grey for both til the biggest skiver ever (according to the lads) was made foreman and changed it - poacher turned game keeper. We'd start at 8 and if the foreman hadn't turned up by 1 we knew he wasn't coming and fucked off home. One arl fella used to do the full day, but then he'd done all his hours too early, so had to spend a month sitting in cafes cos he had fuck all to do. I did a week with him and hated it, going home at 4.

No wonder I skive so much

Funnily enough I worked at Liverpool City Council in my teens as well, where I first came across systematic skiving.

I started work at Bootle with older blokes who’d been in the 8th Army and wouldn’t tolerate skiving and moving to Liverpool was a shock.

[AlphaDelta]

Good subject this and one I am interested in. I'm a manager in the Civil Service and manage around 14 staff, the majority of which are in their 20's.
I'm 45 and have spent most of life in the Civil Service since I joined at 19 and I always held the belief it was a decent thing to get into, especially if you got a permanent job because you'd rarely be made redundant and it is very difficult to get sacked.

I deliberately don't micro-manage my team, I've always held the belief that they are grown adults and as long as the job got done then no worries.

Recently I had a girl start on my team who is 25. She is by far the laziest person I have ever encountered. She was producing absolute no output, would not learn anything, took absolutely no notice of the mentoring she was given. During the days she'd work at home she would disappear for ages.
In the end I took her into the room for a talk to get to the bottom of what was going on. I thought something was wrong in her personal life which was causing her to act like this. Nope, turns out she is just bone idle. She told me according to Google she is entitled to 30 minute breaks every hour if she using a computer at home!

I spoke to my managers and recommended we extended her probation, only for my manager (who is useless as well) to say 'nah, we'll just move her to another team'. Talk about not addressing the issue!?

Don't get me wrong, I have staff of the same age range who are outstanding workers, but I just think mentality has shifted in the last few years. There isn't that work ethic no more, its more a case of 'just do bare minimum'.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

There isn't that work ethic no more, its more a case of 'just do bare minimum'.

Good. Unless you actually love your job then why stress yourself.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't think I have a 'work ethic' and always considered myself a bit lazy. However, I work in IT. If I have to do a mindless chore that takes x amount of time every day or every week then I get stuck in, automate it and within a couple of hours put a solution in that does it itself... forever.

Also when I work on something, I want to do it right, so I take the time to find out everything I need to know and throw myself into it. I hate doing a bad job, so I'll just stick with it and tend to document it for others at the end, so they can work on similar stuff without all the pain.

So I've just confused myself. I think I'm lazy, but apparantly I'm not. I think you either think like that or you don't. People don't have to force or badger me to do work because I always want to deliver above and beyond with every task. If you don't think like that then doing anything must be a nightmare and maybe you'd be suited to jobs that don't have deadlines or deliverables?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Good. Unless you actually love your job then why stress yourself.

I'd be stressed thinking that a worthless shithead that couldn't do a good job to be honest. If you just want to do the bare minimum and can't take any pride in your work then you're in the wrong job.

[ianburns252]

Good. Unless you actually love your job then why stress yourself.

Respect for your colleagues surely should play a factor - if they don't do their work, for example, then it falls on me to do it for them.

This isn't about working every hour under the sun but about simply doing your job to a respectable standard

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I'd be stressed thinking that a worthless shithead that couldn't do a good job to be honest. If you just want to do the bare minimum and can't take any pride in your work then you're in the wrong job.

I am in the wrong job, but then again I'm not sure there's a "right job' for me.

[Nitramdorf]

Respect for your colleagues surely should play a factor - if they don't do their work, for example, then it falls on me to do it for them.

This isn't about working every hour under the sun but about simply doing your job to a respectable standard

Exactly. At my works we have to do a lot of overtime. By have I mean the jobs wont get done in time if not.
We have a 74 year old who does 4 days a week and he has done more Saturdays to help out than a couple of the lads in their 20s.

It seems to be a sense of entitlement with a certain generation. Im not saying I dont know lazy bastards my age but its the nerve of some who come into a company and do less hours than I do when I have put in 20 years and worked my tits off. Im 54 now and have had enough.

Got one twat here who is always pleading poverty and wants a payrise, hasnt done 1 hours overtime in 2 years, then last week bought a brand new BMW. If he did 1 hour a day overtime, someone else could do 5 hours less a week. As far as I'm concerned you earn a payrise, not get one first.

I dont want to open up a can of worms but the problems became more apparent when the minimum wage came in. I know a lot of trades, sparkies, chippies etc that say the same, noone wants to earn anything anymore. They dont or wont work hard when they can get the same for stacking shelves. They are not interested in learning and earning more. We just had a lad on an apprenticeship. He put a year in and then left for a shite job for 30 quid a week more. All he had to do was another year and hed have a good background and knowledge in a lot of different types of manufacturing which would stand him in good stead for his future.

There also seems to be a lack of practical knowledge when it comes to some younger people. Must be something missing at school or something, I dont know. We had one lad who was on the mitre saw, all you need technically is 2 fingers. He kept messing things up and we said dont worry, you'll get there, his reply, was "I doubt it mate, im as thick as fuck"

[ianburns252]

Exactly. At my works we have to do a lot of overtime. By have I mean the jobs wont get done in time if not.
We have a 74 year old who does 4 days a week and he has done more Saturdays to help out than a couple of the lads in their 20s.

It seems to be a sense of entitlement with a certain generation. Im not saying I dont know lazy bastards my age but its the nerve of some who come into a company and do less hours than I do when I have put in 20 years and worked my tits off. Im 54 now and have had enough.

Got one twat here who is always pleading poverty and wants a payrise, hasnt done 1 hours overtime in 2 years, then last week bought a brand new BMW. If he did 1 hour a day overtime, someone else could do 5 hours less a week. As far as I'm concerned you earn a payrise, not get one first.

I dont want to open up a can of worms but the problems became more apparent when the minimum wage came in. I know a lot of trades, sparkies, chippies etc that say the same, noone wants to earn anything anymore. They dont or wont work hard when they can get the same for stacking shelves. They are not interested in learning and earning more. We just had a lad on an apprenticeship. He put a year in and then left for a shite job for 30 quid a week more. All he had to do was another year and hed have a good background and knowledge in a lot of different types of manufacturing which would stand him in good stead for his future.

There also seems to be a lack of practical knowledge when it comes to some younger people. Must be something missing at school or something, I dont know. We had one lad who was on the mitre saw, all you need technically is 2 fingers. He kept messing things up and we said dont worry, you'll get there, his reply, was "I doubt it mate, im as thick as fuck"

It is mad the sense of entitlement like - and yeah, if a few of our staff just did their job or did half an hour extra a day then I'd not be spending that time on my weekends having to fix it.

Starting salary for a grad at my firm is £26k and that goes up to £32k at the end of their first year, around £36k end of 2nd year and at least £38-£40k at the end of their 3rd year (assuming exams are all passed first time).

No one is going short or being mugged off like in terms of pay vs expectations but some just know that it will take more to sack them then it is worth for HR to bother with

[rob1966]

You know what happens to people who work all hours, get pushed beyond limits, work into the night, sacrifice their own time and their families ? One day they walk into work and are greeted with keys and laptop please, you're redundant, thanks now fuck off.

He who dies with the most toys, still dies.

[Elmo!]

There's definitely a line, which can sometimes be a grey area, between being respectful to your colleagues on the one hand, and not getting taken for a ride by your employer on the other hand.

Sometimes they conflict - you don't want to leave a colleague out to dry so help them out by working a bit late or something, but really it's your employers fault they needed help in the first place so you want to just tell them to stuff it.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

You know what happens to people who work all hours, get pushed beyond limits, work into the night, sacrifice their own time and their families ? One day they walk into work and are greeted with keys and laptop please, you're redundant, thanks now fuck off.

He who dies with the most toys, still dies.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

You know what happens to people who work all hours, get pushed beyond limits, work into the night, sacrifice their own time and their families ? One day they walk into work and are greeted with keys and laptop please, you're redundant, thanks now fuck off.

He who dies with the most toys, still dies.

That's the extreme though, nobody's saying anyone should be like that. Just have a bit of pride in doing a decent job and realize that you have to actually do a bit of work to get paid

[End Product]

What do you work in ian burns ?

[rob1966]

That's the extreme though, nobody's saying anyone should be like that. Just have a bit of pride in doing a decent job and realize that you have to actually do a bit of work to get paid

Yeah there is a balance, but look at Nitramdorf above, having to do overtime otherwise the job won't get done. Now, either there's not enough staff, or the timeframes are waaaayyy too short, yet the answer is to flog the staff and take up their precious leisure time.

There's a reason at our place why they've had 4 of us off with mental health issues, 2 long term, one sectioned. Now I do my job, skive when I feel there's too much getting piled on me and do nothing in my own time.

[Jookie]

You know what happens to people who work all hours, get pushed beyond limits, work into the night, sacrifice their own time and their families ? One day they walk into work and are greeted with keys and laptop please, you're redundant, thanks now fuck off.

I think a reasonable amount of this work:life balance relies on the reward. I know people who work really long hours and don't really get much benefit from it.

I've worked very long hours, for no initial extra pay, at times in my career. However, down the line it's led to promotions, significant bonuses etc..The amount of money that, over a period of time, does change your lifestyle and your families lifestyle.

It's also your personal limits and desires. I'm ambitious but also driven to do the best job possible. I'm not driven by money particularly but I'm in a position where I can probably retire reasonably comfortably by 55 at the latest. Retiring early is one of the benefits of 'having more toys'.

My work:life balance is grounded with a few rules a) I make sure that I'm around in the week to take kids to football, swimming etc.. after their school day. I don't want my work to impact their ability to do hobbies, and b) I make sure I don't work on weekends (unless extreme circumstances).

I do work long hours though. I might start work at 7am. I might finish at 10pm. But I do on most days, have a 2h gap between 5 and 7pm to take kids to sports club and have a family meal together. I probably work high 40's to low 50h weeks regularly (but get paid or 37h). It means I have long working weeks with limited free time but I do get the weekends with the kids and my Wife to do as we please. I also get to be ambitious in my career.

The above wouldn't work for others. Their job/profession may not allow for the flexibility I have. I'm conscious that most jobs aren't necessarily giving bonuses or promotions that can make a big difference financially. I know some people wouldn't want to sacrifice their evenings virtually every week night.

What is right for one person won't be right for another person. It's down to us all individually to find that right balance for each part of their life.

[Nitramdorf]

Yeah there is a balance, but look at Nitramdorf above, having to do overtime otherwise the job won't get done. Now, either there's not enough staff, or the timeframes are waaaayyy too short, yet the answer is to flog the staff and take up their precious leisure time.

There's a reason at our place why they've had 4 of us off with mental health issues, 2 long term, one sectioned. Now I do my job, skive when I feel there's too much getting piled on me and do nothing in my own time.

I know what your saying mate. Its hard in the game im in, deadlines all the time for multinational companies who will bin us off if we dont fulfill the contract.

I am currently averaging 50 hours a week, 10 years ago it was over 60. When I was out on the road we sometimes did over a 100 hrs. but it used to be a bit of a laugh, staying away and having a drink as we were all in it together, a small firm. I'd just like it to be 40 hrs now as I am getting old and have done my bit and we are a bigger firm now.

The trouble is for some trades you cant get the staff. We advertised for 6 months and got nothing. A little effort by a few more and they wouldnt be on minimum wage.

The boss is an old mate and he is a good bloke so I dont like to let him down, we used to work together at our previous firm. His old man is 79 and still comes in to help out. Fuck knows why as he must be loaded and is married to the mum of an ex England player whos house/mansion they live in. I went to it once and was gobsmacked. I know some old boys like to keep busy but bollocks to that.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

His old man is 79 and still comes in to help out. Fuck knows why

Workaholic, my boss is one, can't stand them.

[ianburns252]

What do you work in ian burns ?

Accountancy

[ianburns252]

Workaholic, my boss is one, can't stand them.

If someone genuinely enjoys their job then why is that something to dislike about people?

[damomad]

Depends on the size of the company but I've found with larger organisations the process of "performance improving" is a real burden put onto the manager and it's really off putting. The issue compounds and it's really hard to get rid of the problem.

If I work for myself, and there is someone slacking, there's nothing stopping me from sacking the person and getting someone else that day.

In a big firm though, there's the awkward conversations, HR, the planning and regular check ups, measuring progress and improvements etc. All because the company didn't get the right people in the door in the first place which I have no real say in.

I feel recently, working from home may have created a lot of bad habits (depending on how you look at it) that are hard to shake off. Especially expectations of how long things should take to do. 

[ianburns252]

Depends on the size of the company but I've found with larger organisations the process of "performance improving" is a real burden put onto the manager and it's really off putting. The issue compounds and it's really hard to get rid of the problem.

If I work for myself, and there is someone slacking, there's nothing stopping me from sacking the person and getting someone else that day.

In a big firm though, there's the awkward conversations, HR, the planning and regular check ups, measuring progress and improvements etc. All because the company didn't get the right people in the door in the first place which I have no real say in.

I feel recently, working from home may have created a lot of bad habits (depending on how you look at it) that are hard to shake off. Especially expectations of how long things should take to do.

100% right that WFH has impacted things - makes it exceedingly hard to provide the level of training needed with staff and to create the environment where they can reach out easily to ask questions.

Loses some of the collegiate atmospheres that a team needs to thrive too.

We have found hiring very difficult of late in the mid level range - graduates we can get some of the best and brightest, managers and directors we are taking top quality staff from Big 4 firms but that semi senior level is a bitch and also where the attitude problems come from.

You are right about company size being a struggle although I think very big firms can resource the development stuff more easily due to the volume of staff and backing but a mid tier like my current firm find it much more difficult and have to make more compromises

[Andy @ Allerton!]

100% right that WFH has impacted things - makes it exceedingly hard to provide the level of training needed with staff and to create the environment where they can reach out easily to ask questions.

Loses some of the collegiate atmospheres that a team needs to thrive too.

We have found hiring very difficult of late in the mid level range - graduates we can get some of the best and brightest, managers and directors we are taking top quality staff from Big 4 firms but that semi senior level is a bitch and also where the attitude problems come from.

You are right about company size being a struggle although I think very big firms can resource the development stuff more easily due to the volume of staff and backing but a mid tier like my current firm find it much more difficult and have to make more compromises

That's probably only true if you're inexperienced or not too good at your job.

I think older people shine at home because they need very little guidance or management or help. If you've been doing something for decades then you're likely to need less help than someone doing it a few years - especially in something like IT. By then you've seen nearly everything and everything is based on a theme or an idea, once you've got that then you can use your experience to find a route to solving the issue - as you realise after a couple of decades that being an expert in IT is short lived and very transient, you get to learn how to know enough to do a good job and improve every day. Working as a team is fairly easy as well - I tend to get asked questions every day by some of the other bods in the company and it doesn't impact my ability to do my stuff as well - whereas if you are in the office then someone sitting next to you takes 100% of your time, stops you doing your own work and it takes much longer. There are occasions when I'm talking to 10 people and helping them all out by typing text in Slack and also working on my own stuff. That would be absolutely impossible in the office.

[Brissyred]

Biggest problem I find is mobile phones.
I employed an apprentice and within the first hour he checked his phone about 10 times. I told him to put it in his bag and he could use it on his breaks, he got the shits big time.
Next day he didn't turn up and his mother called me to tell me he could not work somewhere that doesn't let him use his phone 
I now tell people at the interview what the mobile phone policy is, about one in four decline a job offer due to this.

[ianburns252]

That's probably only true if you're inexperienced or not too good at your job.

I think older people shine at home because they need very little guidance or management or help. If you've been doing something for decades then you're likely to need less help than someone doing it a few years - especially in something like IT. By then you've seen nearly everything and everything is based on a theme or an idea, once you've got that then you can use your experience to find a route to solving the issue - as you realise after a couple of decades that being an expert in IT is short lived and very transient, you get to learn how to know enough to do a good job and improve every day. Working as a team is fairly easy as well - I tend to get asked questions every day by some of the other bods in the company and it doesn't impact my ability to do my stuff as well - whereas if you are in the office then someone sitting next to you takes 100% of your time, stops you doing your own work and it takes much longer. There are occasions when I'm talking to 10 people and helping them all out by typing text in Slack and also working on my own stuff. That would be absolutely impossible in the office.

You are right that those with many years of experience can thrive remotely however if all the experienced people are at home then who is training the kids?

Really important to caveat this with it not being a blanket rule and it will differ from industry to industry.

Accountancy is very much a "team" job in that most engagements will involve at least 3 to 4 people across various levels. If I've got someone who is new to the firm (processes and systems need learning but may also have knowledge gaps depending on where they have worked before) or new to accountancy (know nothing at all) then I will get them in the office at least 3 days of the week so that I can be on hand for anything they might need and also to help integrate them into the culture.

If I have someone who has worked for me before/has been at the firm a while then I am much more likely to give them free reign and say we can just catch up on Teams once or twice a week for a formal update then speak when needed throughout

[kavah]

I think there's plenty of workplaces that just don't know how to handle performance issues properly. I some a few HR people who tell me how hopelessly inadequate many people managers are when it comes to actually doing their roles. Often, when anything resembling a difficult conversation needs to be had, they just pass it over to their HR contact. But in doing so are tacitly acknowledging that there's a big chunk of their own roles that they're incapable of doing (or unwilling to do).

I've also seen plenty of companies that performance manage by restructure. What I mean by that is that they defer any performance issues until the next restructure and use that to get rid of people.

Wise words.

Also isn’t it true 20% of the people do 88% of the work - something like that anyway and “work flows to the competent” is a good trueism.

One of my favourite ever malingerers / lazy bastards was an ex-copper that would do almost fuck all in work - he was however good company and a nice guy but came in late or went home early (or didn’t show up) for the 4 years I worked with him. And the boss (owner) loved him so you couldn’t even complain.

[ToneLa]

Just want to put some pro WFH things here as I dispute parts of this post...

100% right that WFH has impacted things - makes it exceedingly hard to provide the level of training needed with staff and to create the environment where they can reach out easily to ask questions.

I have always been WFH and have managed to answer and ask questions just fine. I've even set up Teams Q and A groups with a rule that no question is a stupid question. Between that, documentation, and mentoring on the job. WFH has been a boon and allowed us to get talent in we wouldn't normally. Myself included

Loses some of the collegiate atmospheres that a team needs to thrive too.

A team doesn't need this. My team isn't even all in the same country!

I get what you're saying but it isn't an absolute. I've got colleagues I've only met once - and we push hard together and are pretty close.

Team spirit is not something that only exists in person. (It exists in your heart maaaaan)

[Elmo!]

I much prefer getting help, or helping a colleague over a Teams call than in person. It's much nicer to share a screen than to have to strain to look over someones shoulder.

[Crosby Nick]

Another pro work from homer here too.

I come in once a week to be with my team. But as a team we all work on our own individual projects. When I have work calls and meetings they’re with colleagues all over the country. So coming into the office doesn’t really help me apart from being nice to see a few people from a social point of view. But if you come in to then sit on Teams calls in a noisy office all day it’s a bit crap. With train delays last week I spent over 3 hours travelling for absolutely no benefit.

Slightly off topic sorry!

[AlphaDelta]

Some really good responses here, some I agree with.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I've been in the Civil Service on and off since I was 19 and I've worked under countless managers. Some were absolute wankers, bordering on bullies, others are loveable, but fall into the trap of wanting to be liked by everyone or everyone's best mate. I always wanted to go into line management and vowed to take all the good things I had seen over the years, and swerve all the bad things.

When I get new staff and I have my initial meeting with them I always go along the lines of I don't make a point of being obsessed with stats, but I don't expect them to bit sat looking at Sky Sports all day (I don't mind RAWK though  ), I tell them its also fine to make mistakes because the we can fix what they've done and the sky won't fall in generally, its all about learning. I always drum in that when they walk out the door at the end of the day, or shut their laptop off, just forget about work. Don't give it a second thought.

[Riquende]

Interesting thread, especially in the context of recent years - the so called "quiet quitting" trend etc. Also very interesting how the viewpoints break down in term of both age/experience & seniority.

Biggest problem I find is mobile phones.
I employed an apprentice and within the first hour he checked his phone about 10 times. I told him to put it in his bag and he could use it on his breaks, he got the shits big time.
Next day he didn't turn up and his mother called me to tell me he could not work somewhere that doesn't let him use his phone 
I now tell people at the interview what the mobile phone policy is, about one in four decline a job offer due to this.

What do you expect? How will they survive if they can't make their workplace Tiktoks?

[fowlermagic]

Some people are absolutely addicted to their phones and it's only going to get worse. It's great to work from home but the hours on social media must have shot through the roof for some. Im guessing some company workers spend at least ten hours a week messing about browsing rubbish. It's probably even higher.

Anyway im definitely went from working hard for others to working for myself. Seasonal work so have four months to myself and in the past ten years probably have had more down time than i had twenty five years prior to the changing paths in life. Probably won't be able to retire fully until 70, won't have a huge pension fund but did things on my down time that could be physically impossible for my buddies who will work like bastards until 65. Of course they can go first class once they retire im OK with economy as all the time to myself without an ahole boss in my ear is priceless

[24/7]

Accountancy

Have you ever considered a career change? How about lion-taming? 🦁

[ToneLa]

I see the "everyone addicted to phones" thing as good provided it's not my team ... in a mercenary sense

I am good but hopefully seem better as I can do eye contact and don't need to touch my phone constantly

Maybe I am too competitive but others being lame doesn't bother me providing they can step up when needed. I can work solidly without needing my phone.

- Sent from my Xiaomi notchless Mix 4

[Claire.]

Accountancy is very much a "team" job in that most engagements will involve at least 3 to 4 people across various levels. If I've got someone who is new to the firm (processes and systems need learning but may also have knowledge gaps depending on where they have worked before) or new to accountancy (know nothing at all) then I will get them in the office at least 3 days of the week so that I can be on hand for anything they might need and also to help integrate them into the culture.

That's what slack huddles and channels are for! Getting help, knowledge sharing, meetings and catch ups, can all be done successfully remotely. Does require a culture shift and a certain level of engagement in using those tools but it's not impossible, we've been doing really well with it and for longer term WFHers like me (10 years now!) it's much better because the 'office' is now in slack. It'd take some monumental offer to get me back in an office, even one day a week.