Topic: Fuel & energy prices

[filopastry]

The problem most had was offering fixed-price supply for 12/24 months, but not hedging against price increaes. I guess their rationale was that energy prices had been stable for several years and without the costs of hedging, they could offer cheaper pricing. The more established suppliers did hedge, hence they're able to honour fixed-price deals for the full terms.


Additionally, in France, nuclear power generates ~70% of electrcity there, with gas under 8%, so they've not had the huge increases in feed-in costs.

The UK has around 36% of its electrcitiy from gas-powered stations. Only 17% from nuclear (~30% from wind/solar/hydro)

(Germany is 12% gas; 24% coal; 50% renewables)

Yes exactly what happened in terms of the collapse of a lot of less stable companies, also as new customers arrived they were actually losing money on all of them due to the impact of the price cap and rising wholesale energy prices.

I would imagine even now the big cash is all being made on the energy production side of things (incl Big oil/gas obviously), the domestic supply market is a lot more regulated and a lot made losses there during the initial price spikes.

[filopastry]

That’s where the steal is happening. Electricity prices are determined by gas prices even though it’s only used for about 1/3 of our electricity. So even if we invest in more renewables, the price of electricity we pay actually goes up because the price of gas has gone up. Complete insanity. If we actually saw renewables reduce the cost we as users pay for electricity you’d see a lot more people get onboard with it.

To be fair it can, strong renewable production can help reduce demand for gas and therefore reduce gas prices.

Renewables are still pretty variable in terms of production though and we still lack large scale energy storage to deal with the down times.

Even pre Ukraine gas prices were spiking due to lower than average wind levels for a significant period, hitting renewable energy output

[west_london_red]

It's as if we should've started the transition off fossil fuels, and on to renewables 40 years ago   

Governments and Big Oil companies are solely to blame for the current situation.

Even now it’s not too late from a financial point of view. Decouple electricity prices from gas (I think Johnson mentioned this a few months back but I wouldn’t hold my breath) should be the first step because it’s a paper exercise, secondly forget tax cuts and instead just use that money to build renewables, put up as many wind turbines in as many places as fast as we can and use that to bring electricity costs down. Not only does it help people, but cheap energy will also help energy intensive businesses. All it takes is a bit of long term thinking to fix the cause of the cost of living crisis rather then papering over the symptoms with tax cuts.

[west_london_red]

To be fair it can, strong renewable production can help reduce demand for gas and therefore reduce gas prices.

Renewables are still pretty variable in terms of production though and we still lack large scale energy storage to deal with the down times.

Even pre Ukraine gas prices were spiking due to lower than average wind levels for a significant period, hitting renewable energy output

The effect will be marginal I would imagine on gas prices because the price is set at the European level so the UK using less gas by itself won’t make a huge difference. It’s like when people use this as an excuse to start fracking because it will increase supply. Yes it will a bit, but it won’t be enough to shift the price significantly and the gas extracted will be owned by a private company that will sell it to the highest bidder on the international market. It won’t impact the price we pay.

God I’m turning into a hippie!

[redbyrdz]

That’s where the steal is happening. Electricity prices are determined by gas prices even though it’s only used for about 1/3 of our electricity. So even if we invest in more renewables, the price of electricity we pay actually goes up because the price of gas has gone up. Complete insanity. If we actually saw renewables reduce the cost we as users pay for electricity you’d see a lot more people get onboard with it.

My electricity price has gone up 30%, even though I'm with a supplier that only does renewable energy.

To be fair, part of it is because the regulator has moved some charges from the per-kWh price to the standing charge, which punishes low electricity consumers like me

[cornishscouser92]

For those without a Costco

Gulf 24 hour on Garston Way
Unleaded £1.69.9
Diesel £1.79.9

[thejbs]

Nestle have increased prices again. That’s nestle who made £4.5bn profit last year, concerned about their ‘slim’ margins.

[oojason]

'‘Insult to millions’: Shell and Centrica profits cause outrage as energy bills soar'

News of billion-pound profits comes after UK households warned average annual bill could hit £3,850 by 2023

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/28/an-insult-soaring-profits-at-shell-and-centrica-cause-outrage

[TSC]

'‘Insult to millions’: Shell and Centrica profits cause outrage as energy bills soar'

News of billion-pound profits comes after UK households warned average annual bill could hit £3,850 by 2023

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/28/an-insult-soaring-profits-at-shell-and-centrica-cause-outrage

And apparently Centrica has requested that government step in to help consumers.  Unbelievable really.

[gazzalfc]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62338543

The government has announced how all households in England, Scotland and Wales will receive £400 to help with rising fuel bills this autumn.

The money, part of the Energy Bill Support Scheme, will be paid in six instalments.

Households will see a discount of £66 applied to their energy bills in October and November, and £67 a month from December to March 2023.

But how the money is received will depend on how you pay your bill.

Customers paying by direct debit, either monthly or quarterly, will see an automatic deduction off those bills.

Those with "smart" pre-payment devices will see an automatic monthly top-up added to their account, meaning they will have to add less credit to their meter for the total energy they use.

But those with older "non-smart" pre-payment devices will not get this money automatically.

Instead, they will receive an energy bill discount voucher in the first week of each month, via text, email or in the post. Customers will have to redeem these in person at their usual top-up point, such as a local Post Office.

[gazzalfc]

'This is fine gif'

https://www.centrica.com/who-we-are/leadership/amber-rudd/

[[new username under construction]]

I guess they are hoping that despite thousands of pounds on energy costs and probably hundreds added on fuel for everyone, a tiny bit of "free" money will shut everyone up.

[-Willo-]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62338543

The government has announced how all households in England, Scotland and Wales will receive £400 to help with rising fuel bills this autumn.

The money, part of the Energy Bill Support Scheme, will be paid in six instalments.

Households will see a discount of £66 applied to their energy bills in October and November, and £67 a month from December to March 2023.

But how the money is received will depend on how you pay your bill.

Customers paying by direct debit, either monthly or quarterly, will see an automatic deduction off those bills.

Those with "smart" pre-payment devices will see an automatic monthly top-up added to their account, meaning they will have to add less credit to their meter for the total energy they use.

But those with older "non-smart" pre-payment devices will not get this money automatically.

Instead, they will receive an energy bill discount voucher in the first week of each month, via text, email or in the post. Customers will have to redeem these in person at their usual top-up point, such as a local Post Office.

The situation isn't amazing at the moment but this is still a good thing.

Thanks for sharing

[Red-Soldier]

'This is fine gif'

https://www.centrica.com/who-we-are/leadership/amber-rudd/

 

[Red-Soldier]

BP profits triple to £7bn as oil prices surge because of Ukraine war

Labour says government is ‘totally wrong’ to give tax breaks to oil companies amid cost of living crisis

BP will hand billions of pounds to shareholders after tripling its profits to nearly £7bn in the second quarter of the year amid high oil prices during Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, even as families struggle in a cost of living crisis.

The FTSE 100 oil company on Tuesday said its preferred measure of profit, which it describes as its underlying replacement cost profit, rose to $8.5bn (£6.9bn) between April and June. That is up from $6.2bn in the first three months of the year, and three times BP’s underlying profits of $2.8bn in the second quarter of 2021.

BP’s first-quarter profit was already its highest for more than a decade. Rachel Reeves, the shadow chancellor, said the “eye-watering profits” showed that the government was “totally wrong” to have given significant tax breaks to oil companies.

BP also said it would hand investors $3.5bn through a share buyback, while it increased its total dividend payout by 10% to about $1.1bn.

Oil companies in the UK and beyond have enjoyed booming earnings in recent months on the back of rising energy prices as households around the world have struggled with soaring bills. As Russia’s invasion grinds on, analysts have predicted the UK annual energy bills could jump to £3,850 in the winter, three times what they were paying at the start of 2022.

Shell last week reported record quarterly profits of nearly £10bn between April and June, while the British Gas owner, Centrica, made operating profits of £1.3bn, most of which came from its oil and gas drilling division. Shell and France’s Total last week said they would also give shareholders billions of dollars in share buybacks and dividends.

BP said its huge profits were caused by higher refining margins and “continuing exceptional oil trading performance”.

The company was forced to write down the value of its investments in Russia by $24bn in the first quarter, but higher oil prices have made up for much of the lost ground. The strong cashflows have allowed it to cut its debt pile, in a further boost to investors.

Energy bills have been an important contributor to inflation, which has risen to a 40-year high of 9.4% in the UK. Several forecasters believe inflation will move above 10% in the coming months.

The UK government belatedly responded to political pressure amid soaring energy prices with a windfall tax on oil companies’ “extraordinary profits”. However, the 25% tax, known as the energy profits levy, did not come into force until 14 July, meaning that it does not apply to profits made by BP or other oil companies during the second quarter.

Reeves criticised the government for at the same time giving the oil companies 80% tax breaks for new investments that reduce their tax bill. She said Labour would use extra cash from abolishing the tax breaks for a “green energy sprint” instead, as well as for more home insulation to cut energy use.

“People are worried sick about energy prices rising again in the autumn, but yet again we see eye-watering profits for oil and gas producers,” she said.

“Labour argued for months for a windfall tax on these companies to help bring bills down, but when the Tories finally U-turned they decided to hand billions of pounds back to producers in tax breaks. That is totally wrong.”

BP reports its own replacement cost profit measure to indicate its profitability before taking into account swings in the value of the oil it has in storage.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/02/bp-profits-oil-prices-ukraine-war-energy-prices-cost-of-living-crisis

[reddebs]

Quite ignorant personally on how petrol/diesel impacts on a car engine but I saw diesel at Tesco for 1.92 the other day and I was on practically empty. Filled up for 96 quid and it gave me 408 miles. The week before I’d filled up at shell for 1.98 a litre and £108 and it had given me 512 miles. Now I know the miles aren’t always accurate but is cheaper fuel sometimes a bit of a scam? Essentially for 4p a litre more, I’ve got about 100 miles extra in the tank.

Wow wtf do you drive?  I get that mileage off half that amount 😯

[reddebs]

My electricity price has gone up 30%, even though I'm with a supplier that only does renewable energy.

To be fair, part of it is because the regulator has moved some charges from the per-kWh price to the standing charge, which punishes low electricity consumers like me

Yep same here.  Our standing charge has more than doubled but the unit price has gone up a couple of pence at most.

[[new username under construction]]

BP profits triple to £7bn as oil prices surge because of Ukraine war

Labour says government is ‘totally wrong’ to give tax breaks to oil companies amid cost of living crisis

Surely it's down to the public now to do something about these companies? Clear the Government never will so like the 2008??? "run" on the banks where we were going to withdraw all our money and basically collapse the bank, we should perhaps start targeting companies who are clearly taking the piss?

[Red-Soldier]

Surely it's down to the public now to do something about these companies? Clear the Government never will so like the 2008??? "run" on the banks where we were going to withdraw all our money and basically collapse the bank, we should perhaps start targeting companies who are clearly taking the piss?

I think you're right.

There needs to be a collective of action. 

[Andy82lfc]

I think you're right.

There needs to be a collective of action.

I agree 100% but unfortunately this isn't France, the great British public just piss and moan but ultimately do nothing collectively most of the time, it would be too embarrassing and unsightly.

[[new username under construction]]

I agree 100% but unfortunately this isn't France, the great British public just piss and moan but ultimately do nothing collectively most of the time, it would be too embarrassing and unsightly.

There might be an age line to that though, the younger generation have been dumped on quite a bit for a few years now (Including me at 48)

[reddebs]

I think you're right.

There needs to be a collective of action.

There's a refuse to pay group been set up but no idea how many have joined or if it'll work.

[Red-Soldier]

TUC: BP profits are an insult to struggling families

BP profits are “an insult to families struggling to get by” in the cost of living crisis, says unions.

TUC General Secretary Frances O’Grady said:

“Every family should get a fair price for the energy they need. But with energy bills rising much faster than wages, these profits are an insult to families struggling to get by.

“For a fair approach to the cost of living crisis, price hikes and profits should be held back. Ministers must do more to get wages rising across the economy. And we should bring energy retail firms into public ownership so we can reduce bills for basic energy needs.”

[Red-Soldier]

There's a refuse to pay group been set up but no idea how many have joined or if it'll work.

I was thinking about something a long those lines.....

[Red-Soldier]

BP’s business is throwing off “surplus cash” at an astonishing rate. $6.5 billion (£5.3 bn) between April and June.

BP is using this money to buy back shares and reduce debt. Interesting, it is not using the windfall to increase investment in the transition to Net Zero.

https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1554361075801415681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1554361075801415681%7Ctwgr%5Ea08d680c1647d10d5be99025f8c401292269c019%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbusiness%2Flive%2F2022%2Faug%2F02%2Fbp-profits-oil-gas-energy-bills-price-cap-cost-of-living-business-live%3FfilterKeyEvents%3Dfalsepage%3Dwith%3Ablock-62e8d5b28f08c0014732918cblock-62e8d5b28f08c0014732918c


Fossil fuel companies are the biggest c*nts in the world!

[reddebs]

I was thinking about something a long those lines.....

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0QbHSGSssCWbgqhfZsmJi1E8om6RqwmqjA4PMQ1etopLgRZZfF7j6JMvbGZdXBYUdl&id=14062905421

[has gone odd]

Is an insult for sure.

I think many companies, large or small are just getting in on the price hike bandwagon, its a vicious cycle. While I can understand small firms or local business doing so, there is little to no excuse for others.

Our local indoor shopping centre has around 20 stores inside, 10 are now empty due to rate and rent hikes. So essentially greed is having a knock on effect and destroying local economy and those businesses that can afford these hikes just up prices to accommodate.

Weirdly, despite all the price hikes, people are still out there spending money like there is no tomorrow, except pensioners who have about 5 items in their trolley at checkouts.

Not really observing all the other countries on earth but is this mainly a British problem or a worldwide issue?

[[new username under construction]]

People saying they support the idea but wont stop paying because of credit rating?!?! I guess if true we have to think of another way?

[has gone odd]

Yes, by not paying your energy bills you will almost certainly affect your credit score, which in turn would affect your ability to apply for a mortgage, as an example. Many will not be prepared to sacrifice that to make a stand.

Probably worse in England as they may even send bailiffs or smack down the front door and install a key meter, by law. They can still do the key meter in Scotland but bailiffs here can get stuffed, totally illegal

[reddebs]

People saying they support the idea but wont stop paying because of credit rating?!?! I guess if true we have to think of another way?

When we first moved we didn't set up direct debits for our bills at first. 

Our electric was paid in full as a monthly bill but is now on direct debit.

Our council tax is on a standing order.

Our water is included in our rent so we don't even get a bill.

My credit rating is the best it's ever been 🤷

[[new username under construction]]

I mean the most obvious and easiest way to start is to avoid BP / Esso etc garages isn't it?

[gazzalfc]

Hope this may help someone

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/esso-fuel-card-for-blue-light-card-members-3975746

[gazzalfc]

There are some councils looking into setting up 'warm banks' this winter for people who cant afford heating.....

A room where people can go for a few hours to warm up

[[new username under construction]]

There are some councils looking into setting up 'warm banks' this winter for people who cant afford heating.....

A room where people can go for a few hours to warm up

Hey, while you're here do you just want to make this number plate up.......no no, it's just something for you to do while you keep warm

[BarryCrocker]

Surely it's down to the public now to do something about these companies? Clear the Government never will so like the 2008??? "run" on the banks where we were going to withdraw all our money and basically collapse the bank, we should perhaps start targeting companies who are clearly taking the piss?

You need a 'Super Profits Tax'.

[Spezialo]

Hope this may help someone

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/esso-fuel-card-for-blue-light-card-members-3975746

Anyone take this up?

How come it's asking for payment method? Is it not just like a clubcard?

TIA

[[new username under construction]]

Anyone take this up?

How come it's asking for payment method? Is it not just like a clubcard?

TIA

Didn't I see something like this a few days ago on the news or online about it being a massive scam?

[djahern]

Automatically charges to that card payment method when you use it I think.

[stockdam]

So BP have had their 2nd highest quarterly profit ever. That just confirms that prices are being pushed up needlessly. We are all funding these huge profits based on the con that prices need to go up. The government need to step in and force the prices down.

[CowboyKangaroo]

You need a 'Super Profits Tax'.

For what it is worth, Parliament has just passed into law the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act 2022 which is an effective super profits tax on Oil & Gas companies. Its limitation is that it has very generous investment allowance, so I suspect it won't raise as much as a simple levy would...