Topic: Atheism

[ianburns252]

The sporting analogy holds only to a point. For all its tribalism, superstition and obsession, there is no higher power in football. There is hope and belief in winning, but it isn’t necessary to have belief in something that doesn’t exist. There’s no punishment or reward in the next life for not believing (if there was there’d be less negativity in the post match threads). I don’t believe the miracle of Istanbul had anything to do with god (he was playing for city by then) nor should any rational person. In fact, it’s insulting to the manager, players and fans that made that happen.

But to answer your why: the idea of orbs and anointing oils for an unelected head of state who we are supposed to believe is chosen by god, is absolutely bonkers.

I think you'll find many within the game who disagree - if Blatter and Infantino don't seem themselves as deities on some level I'll be amazed!

[liverbloke]

regarding the bible's stance on homosexuality -

i was reading that the bible doesn't say that homosexuality is wrong but was actually referring to the elders who were sleeping with young boys and that that was wrong and should stop

again, it's just a story to me but because we have so many many many people adhering to that faith then to me it appears to be just another case of a manipulative misinterpretation of 'the word' to justify prejudice and hatred

it's this constant interpretation and misinterpretation and different factions of the same fucking religion that has always made me question christianity

i was 'forced' to go to church when i was a kid - and that didn't help either

i also remember that at my nan's house, she was a devout christian but a lovely lovely woman, she had all the usual signs on the walls with phrases such as 'god is the silent guest at all the meals' and 'wherever you are god is watching you'

now if that doesn't sound like some orwellian dystopia then i don't know what does

after following her faith 'religiously' all her life she died in pain from cancer - if her god did exist then she did not deserve that terrible ending

'it's god's way and we though we don't understand it, we must accept it' was the answer i received from the priest

[Son of Spion]

We'll, after today's game I think we can all now agree that there is actually a god.

 

[Chakan]

We'll, after today's game I think we can all now agree that there is actually a god.

 

God got surpassed by Salah

[ianburns252]

God got surpassed by Salah

Does this mean Islam is the one true religion?

[Chakan]

Does this mean Islam is the one true religion?

No it means Liverpool is

[ianburns252]

No it means Liverpool is

Think we can all shake hands and agree on this - close thread?

[Chakan]

Think we can all shake hands and agree on this - close thread?

Done!

/thread

[RAWK Meltdown #1]

We'll, after today's game I think we can all now agree that there is actually a god.

 

I mistakenly thought this too....but as I was heading east on the M62....a great wave of depression and hopelessness began to surge up from surrounding houses, industries and estates....the further I drove, the darker people's thoughts seemed to be. By the time I got to Urmston...it felt like everything was being held in thrall to a stagnant, satanic sense of woe.

"God" does not reside here....I thought.

Not this week..

Nay....he must be far, far away in heaven.

"Seventh" heaven!! ...If I'm any judge of the matter.

 

 

[lobsterboy]

Further proof of god not existing as Johnson swears to tell the truth on a bible and is not struck down by lightning, plague or turned into a pillar of salt.

[liverbloke]

so say man did not create religion and the philosophy of faith wasn't considered...

do you think the world would be a better place?

for all the wars and deaths and misery man-made religion has caused, do you think we would have basically done the same thing but under a different 'philosophy'

no religious texts - no religious doctrines - no religious 'morals' - no churches - no heaven - no hell

i nearly started singing 'imagine' there - but i guess that song does ask the same question too

so whether you believe a god exists or not - man-made religion certainly does exist so hence the question

racism can be attributed to man-made religion - as can misogyny, homophobia, anti-abortion rights etc

but would they have raised their ugly heads regardless of religion being their chief protagonist?

[Jiminy Cricket]

so say man did not create religion and the philosophy of faith wasn't considered...

do you think the world would be a better place?

for all the wars and deaths and misery man-made religion has caused, do you think we would have basically done the same thing but under a different 'philosophy'

no religious texts - no religious doctrines - no religious 'morals' - no churches - no heaven - no hell

i nearly started singing 'imagine' there - but i guess that song does ask the same question too

so whether you believe a god exists or not - man-made religion certainly does exist so hence the question

racism can be attributed to man-made religion - as can misogyny, homophobia, anti-abortion rights etc

but would they have raised their ugly heads regardless of religion being their chief protagonist?

There are plenty examples of murderous non-religious (though religistic) movements: Russian Communism; Chinese Communism; Nazism; Khmer Rouge. So, I do not think there being no religion would solve all these kinds of problems. But I think it would be a start.

[Nobby Reserve]

so say man did not create religion and the philosophy of faith wasn't considered...

do you think the world would be a better place?

for all the wars and deaths and misery man-made religion has caused, do you think we would have basically done the same thing but under a different 'philosophy'

no religious texts - no religious doctrines - no religious 'morals' - no churches - no heaven - no hell

i nearly started singing 'imagine' there - but i guess that song does ask the same question too

so whether you believe a god exists or not - man-made religion certainly does exist so hence the question

racism can be attributed to man-made religion - as can misogyny, homophobia, anti-abortion rights etc

but would they have raised their ugly heads regardless of religion being their chief protagonist?

Humans are tribal and greedy/hoarding by nature (a throwback to the millions of years we spent evolving). They'd have found other reasons to kill each other to some extent.

But religion has always played the afterlife joker, driving people to become more zealous and less protective of the value of their own lives.

[Bullet500]

Present day Christian doctrines don't mandate animal sacrifice. Quite disingenuous to associate it with present day Christianity. It's a similar thing with Hinduism too. Vedas mention animal sacrifice, but most other texts and most doctrines don't mandate it. Contrarily, most doctrines abhor it. There are few exceptions like Shaktism (e.g., Kamakhya temple).

Ritualistic animal sacrifice (Eid al-Adha/Bakreid) is barbaric.

Speaking of Kamakhya temple...

"Five arrested over human sacrifice at Indian temple" - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/indian-police-arrest-five-men-accused-of-human-sacrifice

[shank94]

so say man did not create religion and the philosophy of faith wasn't considered...

do you think the world would be a better place?

for all the wars and deaths and misery man-made religion has caused, do you think we would have basically done the same thing but under a different 'philosophy'

no religious texts - no religious doctrines - no religious 'morals' - no churches - no heaven - no hell

i nearly started singing 'imagine' there - but i guess that song does ask the same question too

so whether you believe a god exists or not - man-made religion certainly does exist so hence the question

racism can be attributed to man-made religion - as can misogyny, homophobia, anti-abortion rights etc

but would they have raised their ugly heads regardless of religion being their chief protagonist?

I think we would have killed each other on looking different, but I think the overall body count would be lower since a lot of motive for wars was religious persecution especially funded by Churches and Mosques.

[lobsterboy]

Whack job catholics in the Philippines have restarted nailing themselves to a cross for Easter.
Guess it's what Jesus would want...

[Jiminy Cricket]

Whack job catholics in the Philippines have restarted nailing themselves to a cross for Easter.
Guess it's what Jesus would want...

Inquiring minds need to know: how do they hammer in the nail in their second hand?

[So… Howard Philips]

Inquiring minds need to know: how do they hammer in the nail in their second hand?

It’s a miracle.

[A Red Abroad]

Whack job catholics in the Philippines have restarted nailing themselves to a cross for Easter.
Guess it's what Jesus would want...

Catholics?

Addicted to cats?

[vblfc]

Religions become organised and maybe fixated with hierarchies where we all bow down or look up to a priest, bishop, pope, Son if God, Father etc. It seems to me anywhere where I come across such a pyramid or hierarchy. it is followed with misuse of power, exclusion and then corruption and control. Religion is very intertwined with politics in that manner.  Both politics and religion have concepts, models  and teachings that try to encourage “horizontal” peace, harmony etc, but the vertical, top down, power dynamic always seems to dominate, mostly it seems leading to corruption and control.
I try to swerve any strong attachment to such power structures, so my atheism isn’t much so about not believing in God. It’s more about not believing in religion.

[Chakan]

Whack job catholics in the Philippines have restarted nailing themselves to a cross for Easter.
Guess it's what Jesus would want...

What ya doing for Easter??

Just hanging about really.

[Jshooters]

Whack job catholics in the Philippines have restarted nailing themselves to a cross for Easter.
Guess it's what Jesus would want...

I lived in the Philippines for a few years and went to an Easter parade one time, it’s insane. As well as the crucifixion many of them do self-flagellation where they get their mates to make a load of nicks in their backs with razors and then beat themselves with a sort of cat o’nine tails made of wood/bamboo.  Apparently it’s as much about machismo as about faith

[thejbs]

I lived in the Philippines for a few years and went to an Easter parade one time, it’s insane. As well as the crucifixion many of them do self-flagellation where they get their mates to make a load of nicks in their backs with razors and then beat themselves with a sort of cat o’nine tails made of wood/bamboo.  Apparently it’s as much about machismo as about faith

Not just their mates, but children partake in it too. Absolute lunacy.

[liverbloke]

Inquiring minds need to know: how do they hammer in the nail in their second hand?

..next you'll be asking how that guy escaped in the shawshank redemption after digging a hole through the cell wall and then climbing into the hole and then sticking back the poster covering the hole in the cell wall from the outside while still being inside the hole

[liverbloke]

What ya doing for Easter??

Just hanging about really.

nailed it 

[TepidT2O]

Easter, Ramadan and Passover this weekend …
Peak religion right now!

[thejbs]

..next you'll be asking how that guy escaped in the shawshank redemption after digging a hole through the cell wall and then climbing into the hole and then sticking back the poster covering the hole in the cell wall from the outside while still being inside the hole

The poster was only attached at the top?

[Jiminy Cricket]

The poster was only attached at the top?

Yeah. It seems much less of head-scratcher than nailing both of your own hands to a cross.

[shank94]

Don't understand what the Christians are on about after every disaster, Jesus is making an appearance at Anfield today

[liverbloke]

The poster was only attached at the top?

ah... but if you watch the scene the prison warden punches his fist through the poster and it does not move

(but let's not hijack this thread through fear of not taking atheism serious enough - naughty naughty us)

[The_Nomad]

Been watching science vs religion debates on YouTube with people like Krause, Hitchens, William Craig, Dawkins, Tyson and Peterson.

Honestly don’t know why scientists want to debate religious people. Never mind the fact that they’re never going to convince each other or people from the opposing viewpoint; religious people always argue from a philosophical perspective and scientists, from a scientific one. It’s actually quite pointless, l feel.

Most of the time, it’s almost as if they’re talking past each other. Any debate about the existence of god requires there to be a common language on the subject. Science and religion approach this in very different ways. Metaphysics is NOT science.

Very unfortunately, religionists want to impose their religion on the teaching of science. Science doesn’t do that deliberately. It goes on its merry way as a candle in the dark, to quote Sagan, bringing an end to ignorance about the natural world. I guess that’s why religion feels so threatened by science.

While there is scientific inquiry, there is no such thing as a religious one. If nobody can know the mind of god, why bother discovering anything? Just accept the boundaries of knowledge and say god is responsible for everything. Religionists have been moving the goal posts with every discovery that science has made about the cosmos and quantum physics. It’s completely ridiculous. Why do you NEED a divine, all powerful, all knowing entity in your lives?

[Iska]

The first half of that is totally correct, and is why among other things this thread never gets anywhere.  But then you make exactly the same mistake in the second half - there’s absolutely tons of inquiry in religion, but it’s around questions like ‘how should we live?’.  You can surely at least imagine how having a supreme entity would be a useful concept when it comes to addressing that question.

[liverbloke]

The first half of that is totally correct, and is why among other things this thread never gets anywhere.  But then you make exactly the same mistake in the second half - there’s absolutely tons of inquiry in religion, but it’s around questions like ‘how should we live?’.  You can surely at least imagine how having a supreme entity would be a useful concept when it comes to addressing that question.

it is not meant to get anywhere - atheists don't believe: end of

ah, imagination - now we're back to what if we make things up again

[thejbs]

The first half of that is totally correct, and is why among other things this thread never gets anywhere.  But then you make exactly the same mistake in the second half - there’s absolutely tons of inquiry in religion, but it’s around questions like ‘how should we live?’.  You can surely at least imagine how having a supreme entity would be a useful concept when it comes to addressing that question.

I can’t, actually. But I can think of many ways it isn’t useful and can be dangerous.

[Iska]

I can’t, actually. But I can think of many ways it isn’t useful and can be dangerous.

You can’t imagine a difference between living as if you’re answerable for every action, and living as if you’re not answerable for actions that you can get away with?

[Yorkykopite]

Spreading hatred? The Church of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/apr/26/uk-government-funding-anti-lgbtq-organisation-in-uganda-says-report

[Yorkykopite]

You can’t imagine a difference between living as if you’re answerable for every action, and living as if you’re not answerable for actions that you can get away with?

Wow. Do you mean this?

Your choices are both wretched. To be "answerable for every action"? Certain totalitarian regimes have tried to construct systems that do this. They put the individual under immense scrutiny and surveillance and punish every infringement against the Dictator, no matter how small. The individual isn't even allowed to read a book that is not authorised. Private thoughts are not allowed. 'Thought crimes' are treated like real crimes.

I don't know why you would think this is an admirable system, or why you would want the individual to be "answerable" for every little thing he or she does. Answerable to God, presumably. The great Dictator in the sky. The heavenly equivalent of Stalin. Reigning by terror.  People aren't made "moral" by such a system. They are made frightened and scared.

As for the other alternative, what exactly are you describing? A lawless place of total anarchy where you can get away with anything? I know such hell-holes exist, but it hardly describes the civilisations built up by (on the whole) secular, democratic societies, where there is equality under the law,  law is based on accepted codes of morality and people are accountable for illegal actions.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You can’t imagine a difference between living as if you’re answerable for every action, and living as if you’re not answerable for actions that you can get away with?

The largest group of sick and twisted paedophiles and child abusers are people who imagine that they're answerable to one of the thousands of gods.

[Iska]

You’ve gone off on one there. Imagine you find a wallet on a deserted street with £100 in it. There is no god. What should you do?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You’ve gone off on one there. Imagine you find a wallet on a deserted street with £100 in it. There is no god. What should you do?

The biggest group of thieves over the history of mankind are leaders of one of the thousands of religions.

The ultimate long con.