Topic: Fulham 1-0 Liverpool: Full time

[Abrak]

So much mindless drivel on this thread, so little football.

[coolbyrne]

So much mindless drivel on this thread, so little football.

Feel free to jump in with an actual comment on football, then.

I'll start you out:

1. What does Maxi have to do to get a start on the team?
2. What should the club do with Andy Carroll, considering we paid 35 million for him?
3. With both Lucas and Spearing out now, who does Kenny play?
4. Do we need another striker in the January window? If so, who do you suggest?
5. Do you think 4th place is still a reasonable goal? If so, what needs to happen? If not, what are your hopes for the rest of the year?

Discuss.

[kiwiscouser]

can everyone stop calling Jay's clearance a tackle? Don't know many tackles where the ball is kicked 40 yards upfield!

[Xabinator]

can everyone stop calling Jay's clearance a tackle? Don't know many tackles where the ball is kicked 40 yards upfield!

Absolutely spot on.....I've been having this argument with friends all day.
They keep banging on about a 2 footed tackle, yet one foot kicked the ball, so that rules out one of the feet.
And I am pretty sure if we all go down the park now with a soccer ball and try to hoof one, it's very difficult to do without the other foot planted in the turf.
That rules out the second foot.
Two footed?? I don't think so.

[Abrak]

Absolutely spot on.....I've been having this argument with friends all day.
They keep banging on about a 2 footed tackle, yet one foot kicked the ball, so that rules out one of the feet.
And I am pretty sure if we all go down the park now with a soccer ball and try to hoof one, it's very difficult to do without the other foot planted in the turf.
That rules out the second foot.
Two footed?? I don't think so.

How ever if you look at this photo from the Daily Mail.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2070381/Fulham-1-Liverpool-0-Christmas-comes-early-Jol-Reina-gifts-Cottagers-win.html

You can understand why a 'red card' was given. It may have been harsh but it was 'understandable'.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

I´ll take a punt.

1. What does Maxi have to do to get a start on the team?

He should definately have featured to some extent yesterday. On the other hand, I thought we looked dangerous going forward until the red card (and in the closing stages) so it wasn´t like we were stuck and needed him to pick a lock. He´s good when on form but listening to some people he´s Leo bloody Messi.

2. What should the club do with Andy Carroll, considering we paid 35 million for him?

Give him ample playing time. For me, the signs are there. Could´ve scored 3 or 4 over the last 5 or 6 league outings, but the crossbar amongst other things has wanted otherwise. His situation reminds me about Crouch´s time at the start of his Liverpool career. Did he go 20 games without scoring? Once he got his first, things rolled on nicely.

3. With both Lucas and Spearing out now, who does Kenny play?

I have no fucking clue. We really need to bring someone in in January. In the mean time? Just don´t know.

4. Do we need another striker in the January window? If so, who do you suggest?

I really think we do. We can go for an experienced guy to fill the need short term, or we could go for a younger option. I love Soldado, but that´s not likely to happen. David Villa has been mentioned once or twice on here  and would be a good option if we can get him at a sensible price and reasonable wages. Another shot at Llorente?

5. Do you think 4th place is still a reasonable goal? If so, what needs to happen? If not, what are your hopes for the rest of the year?

Sure it is. 24 games to go and 4 points out of 4th. We have to make sure we are there to pounce when teams like Spurs starts to sputter, when Arsenal have their usual breakdown when the pressure mounts. What we need to do is to start converting our good attacking play and chances into goals. I think it is as simple as that. No deeper analyzis needed. No team can afford to be so wasteful in front of goal as we have been. Start scoring and we´ll do fine. I´d be more worried if we weren´t playing well and not creating chances, but we are and we are bound to start hitting the back of the net sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Joke of a ref. Dempsey shouldn't have been on the pitch after that with Bellamy, yet he then sends Spearing off for a clearance and then gives us a free-kick instead of a penno. If it was a free-kick, send the fat twat Senderos off, you useless c*nt.

The team that started was the wrong one. Maxi should have started instead of Carroll, as it was the movement last season that killed them. With the service we give Carroll, Hangelanda head-on-a-stick defending was always going to come out on top.

[Xabinator]

How ever if you look at this photo from the Daily Mail.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2070381/Fulham-1-Liverpool-0-Christmas-comes-early-Jol-Reina-gifts-Cottagers-win.html

You can understand why a 'red card' was given. It may have been harsh but it was 'understandable'.

If you have a look at the actual footage of what happens, you'll realise why most of us can't understand how it was even worthy of a yellow, let alone a red.

The pic a couple below it makes it look like Dempsey has two-footed Bellamy. Yet we watched the game so we know that's not what happened.

Same goes for that photo of Jay. The pic looks horrible, but the reality looks so much different.

[Roy of the rovers]

Result and red card will put a dampener on the performance which on the whole away from home was decent.

I felt the balance and shape wasn't fantastic as we narrowed the game with only our fullbacks providing width, although i don't think the game plan set out by Kenny and co was necessarily poor, the idea was clearly to get the fullbacks involved high up the pitch, which Enrique i thought did quite well and Johnson not so well. We saw enough of the ball in and around their area to have been more productive.

I know there were eyebrows raised that we changed our setup so significantly from last year, but the plan played out OK tonight, however after 45mins of knocking on the door it was clear we need better movement and width and i was eager to see an earlier change with Suarez going up top and one of Downing or Maxi to come on for Carroll who faded out of the game as it went on.

Spearing - great tackle and 20 years ago, hell even 10 years ago would have been applauded. The ref gets away with this on a technicality for me as both feet (eventually) left the ground, however the old adage of ref's knowing the rules but not the game made this a hard decision for me as he won the ball clearly and clean with only his follow through looking tough due to his momentum, however we all know the rules and perhaps for Jay will be a learning curve to stay on his feet a little longer.

Their goal - Johnson for me was at fault, as Murphy picked the ball up i was screaming at the screen for Johnson to show him the line better as it was obvious he would always try and bring it onto his right rather than take Glen on for pace, he should have got closer and dictated that situation better and the goal would never have materialised.

All in all it was a decent show, with some mistakes from both players and management at certain points in the game, but on the whole and the performance we put in we could quite easily be celebrating 3 points right now.

Tough one to swallow, but no need to knee jerk after this one.

  - this wasn't a great performance, but it's one of the very few games I think we can claim to be genuinely unlucky

[jillcwhomever]

Completely disagree. In Rafa's early seasons we had games like that where you could see that the team was heading in the right direction but there would be frustrating results. In the end it came to fruition and we could easily have got another European Cup and a title the next season. In Rafa's last season things were clearly going in the wrong direction and that process was put into overdrive by Hodgson.

The team we have now is moving in the right direction but is still a long way from the finished article. For me that is streets away from the last two seasons when you could see the wheels coming off under both managers.

We are exactly where I would expect us to be under a new manager that knows what he is doing. Just as it was under Rafa, you can see the potential in the team and that they are trying to do the right things. Just as under Rafa it will take time to get right. And I believe that just as it was under Rafa, in the end things will start to come together and we will be a force to be reckoned with.

To say that things are the same as they were under Hodgson and to a lesser extent as they were in Rafa's last season and that it is 'same shit different season' is really lazy analysis in my opinion, and the same kind of thing that the Mancs come out with when they bang on about us always going on about how it is going to be 'our season this time'. This season won't be ours and I will be surprised if the next one is to be honest. But if we keep on improving as we have been so far under Kenny I believe that we will get there in the end. It just requires a little patience and perspective.

Excellent post Sammy.

[Rafa_La]

I'm sorry, but if Pepe doesn't spill the ball then we don't lose the game. But he did, and they scored. End of.

Couple in the fact that we again missed chances that we should have scored, and there's really only one direction to point the finger of blame

i.e: at ourselves. Being down to 10 men hindered our chances to win, but it wasn't the sole cause of this defeat.

I'm fucked if I'm going to have a go at Pepe though. A player who has bailed us out numerous times made a mistake? Fuck it, so what, that's football.

24 games still to go. Anyone throwing in the towel on 4th now can throw themselves off a fucking bridge as far as I'm concerned

Kwality post

[jillcwhomever]

How ever if you look at this photo from the Daily Mail.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2070381/Fulham-1-Liverpool-0-Christmas-comes-early-Jol-Reina-gifts-Cottagers-win.html

You can understand why a 'red card' was given. It may have been harsh but it was 'understandable'.

It would of been more "understandable" had the ref had a decent game for the rest of the time. He was one of the most one sided refs I have seen in a long time. Every time a Fulham player fell over, he couldn't wait to give a free kick. Think it was half way through the first half before we had our first one. He made way too many mistakes in the game, and I don't think he should get another chance.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

It would of been more "understandable" had the ref had a decent game for the rest of the time. He was one of the most one sided refs I have seen in a long time. Every time a Fulham player fell over, he couldn't wait to give a free kick. Think it was half way through the first half before we had our first one. He made way too many mistakes in the game, and I don't think he should get another chance.

One of the most laughable decisions is when he awarded Riise a free kick just outside our area when Johnson and Bellamy pressured him.

[jaffod]

Completely disagree. In Rafa's early seasons we had games like that where you could see that the team was heading in the right direction but there would be frustrating results. In the end it came to fruition and we could easily have got another European Cup and a title the next season. In Rafa's last season things were clearly going in the wrong direction and that process was put into overdrive by Hodgson.

The team we have now is moving in the right direction but is still a long way from the finished article. For me that is streets away from the last two seasons when you could see the wheels coming off under both managers.

We are exactly where I would expect us to be under a new manager that knows what he is doing. Just as it was under Rafa, you can see the potential in the team and that they are trying to do the right things. Just as under Rafa it will take time to get right. And I believe that just as it was under Rafa, in the end things will start to come together and we will be a force to be reckoned with.

To say that things are the same as they were under Hodgson and to a lesser extent as they were in Rafa's last season and that it is 'same shit different season' is really lazy analysis in my opinion, and the same kind of thing that the Mancs come out with when they bang on about us always going on about how it is going to be 'our season this time'. This season won't be ours and I will be surprised if the next one is to be honest. But if we keep on improving as we have been so far under Kenny I believe that we will get there in the end. It just requires a little patience and perspective.

That's all very well and good mate but I'm sorry, last night's proceedings are just the latest example of a problem that has been there for years regardless of who the manager was.
 We have been failing to beat dross like Fulham for years, again we dominate for most of the game and just can't buy a goal. We fail to score a ridiculous amount of times for a side for a side with title or CL aspirations. I make that 4 times already this season, go and have a look at how many times the sides above us have drawn a blank this season.
 You use the 2008-09 season as an example but that was another season where the same old problems cost us the title with failure to beat shite teams, too many shut-outs, woeful luck and shite refereeing decisions.
 Same shite, different season....

[Xabinator]

How ever if you look at this photo from the Daily Mail.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2070381/Fulham-1-Liverpool-0-Christmas-comes-early-Jol-Reina-gifts-Cottagers-win.html

You can understand why a 'red card' was given. It may have been harsh but it was 'understandable'.

To illustrate what I mean....... take a look at this angle and then tell me if anyone was going to get a card shown to them.....who would it be?

[Groundskeeper Willie]

To illustrate what I mean....... take a look at this angle and then tell me if anyone was going to get a card shown to them.....who would it be?

Not even the Fulham players thought it was a red. The only reaction I could see was Zamora raising one hand. Murphy, who was a yard away from the whole thing turned his back and started walking away.

[C@mry]

I'm sorry, but if Pepe doesn't spill the ball then we don't lose the game. But he did, and they scored. End of.

Couple in the fact that we again missed chances that we should have scored, and there's really only one direction to point the finger of blame

i.e: at ourselves. Being down to 10 men hindered our chances to win, but it wasn't the sole cause of this defeat.

I'm fucked if I'm going to have a go at Pepe though. A player who has bailed us out numerous times made a mistake? Fuck it, so what, that's football.

24 games still to go. Anyone throwing in the towel on 4th now can throw themselves off a fucking bridge as far as I'm concerned

Yes, anything can happen in these 24 games. Good post.

[PJG]

quality mate.  Agree with it all.  In terms of the striker we need given none of Suarez, Carroll or Kuyt are putting them away.  I'd say someone like Papiss Cisse or Podolski would be interesting.

[Rafa_La]

Even though we did lose the match I see a lot that we did right and a lot that we can look foward to throughout the remainder of the season. Some individual performances need to be analysed naturally but the team ethos seems to be strong enough to build a platform from that can see us perform better and more consistantly as the season wears on. With clubs such as Spurs and Man City strengthening, this season was always going to be a real battle, even for a top four finish. In regards to the bigger picture, on and off the pitch, our future looks a lot brighter than it did this time last season. I think we'll only get better as the season gets on.

You should be very careful of optimism amongst the doom-mongers. LOL.

Valid points there. Our future IS brighter. I agree we will get better. Have to get better. Shall owe my brother a heap of money for a drunken bet the bar steward remembers.
THanks for the cheerful post

[redstevec]

Too tired/angry/depressed to post after getting home from game last night.
Fact is we played reasonably well - again let down by our finishing. All night long we got very little from the referee - why Dempsey was not sent off for squaring up to Bellamy I don't understand. Anyway guess that's just the way things have been going for us in many of our games this season.

Highlight - Lucas Leiva chant during the second half

[MiserableP15]

Too tired/angry/depressed to post after getting home from game last night.
Fact is we played reasonably well - again let down by our finishing. All night long we got very little from the referee - why Dempsey was not sent off for squaring up to Bellamy I don't understand. Anyway guess that's just the way things have been going for us in many of our games this season.

Highlight - Lucas Leiva chant during the second half

Did well to keep it going. Top stuff.

Hope the trip back was ok.

I still don't know how Dempsey didn't get sent off. He headbutted Bellamy twice and Craig did amazingly well not to rise to it. Fucking sour as hell that he turns up to score the winner.

[jaffod]

Have we said anything yet? About the 'referee'? Or are we assuming the position again, because we are Liverpool FC?

[Zlen]

Have we said anything yet? About the 'referee'? Or are we assuming the position again, because we are Liverpool FC?

Kenny said we might challenge the red card.
Nothing more, nothing direct about Friend.

[james791]

I genuinely thought we were unlucky yesterday. We played well in the first half, perhaps a little less so in the second and once the red card was out, you could seemwhat was coming.

Carroll did ok in the first half I thought. Should have come off a little earlier though, and I do think maxi rather than downing should have come on.

As others have said, you can see the type of team kenny is trying to build here, it'll take time but it'll come (insert rocky 3 training montage here)

[ArcticRed]

Laws of the Game only says that a pen is given if a foul is committed in the box - so far as I can see.  Nothing about fouls that start outside and end inside the box.

http://ar.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2011_12e.pdf

Page 112, 4th paragraph: " If a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty area and continues holding him inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick"
Same discussion as was had a couple years back. Back then it the pen against Masch was justified based on this. Strange, how it didn't seem to apply yesterday.

Edit: Also note how it says "must". Not "can" or "might". Blatant mistake. That is, if it wasn't intentional.

[Zlen]

Page 112, 4th paragraph: " If a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty area and continues holding him inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick"
Same discussion as was had a couple years back. Back then it the pen against Masch was justified based on this. Strange, how it didn't seem to apply yesterday.

Plus that one with Valencia was even more marginal as he barely reached the box with his tumble.
Ah well, consistency is important and there is no bias at all.

[stevedo]

I'm sorry, but if Pepe doesn't spill the ball then we don't lose the game. But he did, and they scored. End of.

Couple in the fact that we again missed chances that we should have scored, and there's really only one direction to point the finger of blame

i.e: at ourselves. Being down to 10 men hindered our chances to win, but it wasn't the sole cause of this defeat.

I'm fucked if I'm going to have a go at Pepe though. A player who has bailed us out numerous times made a mistake? Fuck it, so what, that's football.

24 games still to go. Anyone throwing in the towel on 4th now can throw themselves off a fucking bridge as far as I'm concerned

Nicely put. 

[frankie biscan]

That result is very hard to take felt we played reasonably well at times, thought Spearing was a little off right from the start to be honest too much of a gap between him and our 2 centre halves in the first half, Dempsey, Zamora and Dembele had far too much space just in front of our box not sure why Skrtel kept backing off either. not trying to upset anyone but felt it was a Red card all day long think it was a rush of blood to the head as he most certainly had not reason to go to ground.

Find myself blaming Johnson on the goal my love for Pepe has blinded me on his part in it, turning point was the foul on Adam still feel it was a peno and if we go 1 up dont think Spearing would have made such a challenge and How Dempsey wasnt sent off for his reaction to Craig Douglas Bellamy i cant understand and then for Bellamy to get booked for it is incredible!! Think Kenny got it wrong with the team he picked starting Carroll played straight into there hands, big Centre backs like Senderos and Haangeland love the sight of a big forward coming there way as they prefer the physical aspect of the game rather than having to mark a smaller, nippy forward with good close control and it must be hard to take for Maxi after playing so weel over the last few games to be dropped like that.

We were very unlucky with a couple of decisions but thought Adam was very good the 3 man centre midfield suits him so well and really happy with Agger, having him fit and healthy is such a massive boost and as for El Toro the lad just gets better and better. terrible result but there are some positives

[didi]

fickle as fuck the majority of fans, fickle as fuck.
can anyone say we did not give it our best out there last night? no they cant we went there and put in the effort and determination and with more luck we would have been worthy winners.
This is a new team, a more or less new manager and it takes time....anyone who thinks we are just gonna click into a winning team up there challenging really needs to get a grip

[CLOCKSPEED]

Personally thought we were poor and if I am honest thought Fulham had better clear cut chances. Back four looked nervous stood off and let them shoot at will was convinced at one stage they were going to get a deflected long range goal. Midfield was poorish and although I championed him and said he would come good Carroll was awful. Adams delivery from set pieces was dreadful did not hit one of our men once really exasperating as he is a decent footballer.

On the positive side Luis continues to perform and I thought Henderson played well well chuffed with him hope we play him in the middle for next couple of games. My midfield would be Dirk / Adam / Henderson /Maxi

[jaffod]

Kenny said we might challenge the red card.
Nothing more, nothing direct about Friend.

Sounds about right.

 We 'might' challenge the red card eh? No doubt it will be discussed at Melwood today over a cup of tea and a hobnob.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Personally thought we were poor and if I am honest thought Fulham had better clear cut chances. Back four looked nervous stood off and let them shoot at will was convinced at one stage they were going to get a deflected long range goal. Midfield was poorish and although I championed him and said he would come good Carroll was awful. Adams delivery from set pieces was dreadful did not hit one of our men once really exasperating as he is a decent footballer.

On the positive side Luis continues to perform and I thought Henderson played well well chuffed with him hope we play him in the middle for next couple of games. My midfield would be Dirk / Adam / Henderson /Maxi

All their chances in the first half were long range efforts, bar Dembele´s. Almost all their clear cut chances came after the red card. And even then I counted only two.

[Fordy]

Kenny said we might challenge the red card.
Nothing more, nothing direct about Friend.

Doubt he will.

He said sometimes it's a yellow - sometimes it's a red.

Hardly grounds to challenge when you say things like that.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Sounds about right.

 We 'might' challenge the red card eh? No doubt it will be discussed at Melwood today over a cup of tea and a hobnob.

You are our sunshine, our only sunshine, you make us happy when skies are grey.

Dumdedumdedum.

[Smudgester]

3. With both Lucas and Spearing out now, who does Kenny play?

I have no fucking clue. We really need to bring someone in in January. In the mean time? Just don´t know.

He plays Hendeson there as, arguably, he should have done last night.

[Chivasino]

Highlight - Lucas Leiva chant during the second half

That was was the highlight for me. When it started I was the only one around me singing it. A few looks suggested people thought I was a loon, but slowly people started joining in. Sounded superb.

[Abrak]

Poor refereeing decisions almost certainly cost us the match. However, without them we would as likely have ended with a draw rather than a win.

We cant really get away without recognizing how well the other 'top 5' are doing.

1) The top 3 in the table have a combined total of 3 losses. All 3 losses were a result of matches played amongst the top 3.
2) The top 7 have a total of 4 defeats by teams outside the top 7. Of which Liverpool has 2.
3) We have only scored 17 goals in 14 matches. Of the so called top 6, Spurs are 5th in terms of goals scored with 29.

[DaBoda]

The need for a poacher-type striker in the january window is inevitable. We look awful in front of goal. But then again, where would he fit in, and who should he replace?

I can not believe we lost this match, but trying to finish the game off with ten men away from home is not easy. The lack of a left winger in the first half was clear though. Suarez needs to play up top, not out wide. And if Carroll is playing, we need someone who can cross from the left as well. A frustrating night!

 Let's smash QPR on Saturday now!

[subroc]

Poor refereeing decisions almost certainly cost us the match. However, without them we would as likely have ended with a draw rather than a win.

We cant really get away without recognizing how well the other 'top 5' are doing.

1) The top 3 in the table have a combined total of 3 losses. All 3 losses were a result of matches played amongst the top 3.
2) The top 7 have a total of 4 defeats by teams outside the top 7. Of which Liverpool has 2.
3) We have only scored 17 goals in 14 matches. Of the so called top 6, Spurs are 5th in terms of goals scored with 29.

I suspect if we look at the stats we will see that our losses are a result of insufficient chances being created and an inabiltiy to put away the chances that were created. Which means that a top flair player and a prolific goal scorer must be signed in January if we want to have any chance of getting into the Top 4.

[jaffod]

You are our sunshine, our only sunshine, you make us happy when skies are grey.

Dumdedumdedum.