Author Topic: The NFL Thread  (Read 2792101 times)

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71680 on: February 16, 2024, 10:04:35 am »
Honestly this geography discussion you guys got going on...

...it's like I'm sitting in my plane seat and Ted Striker has sat down next to me.

Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71681 on: February 16, 2024, 10:53:09 am »
Rapaport:
49ers coach Kyle Shanahan announces on a conference call that he has fired DC Steve Wilks.

As a 49ers fan I’m  not surprised by this. There has been some push back from others though. Wilks is highly respected and in the SuperBowl the 49ers defence was good in the main.

However, things haven’t quite felt right all season. The defence seemed lesser than the sum of their parts for chunks of the season. Wilks just didn’t seem the right fit for the scheme, which he was told he couldn’t change significantly. DBs (Lenior and Mooney Ward) improved this season but other parts of the defence regressed. Maybe the DB improvement is expected given Wilks coaching background as a DB coach.


Wilks is  a good coach. Just not the right coach in this scenario. 49ers have had success with DCs who were originally linebacker coach. Saleh & Ryans were both LB coaches. Coincidence or maybe a reflection of where emphasis is in 49ers scheme? Interesting Vrabel was previously a linebackers coach. Some whispers about Jeff Ulbrich (Jets DC) or Brandon Staley being targets. 49ers have promoted from within previously so Johnny Holland could be a candidate.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2024, 10:57:22 am by Jookie »
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71682 on: February 16, 2024, 11:06:06 am »
Wilks was used like a scapegoat for Purdy being a mediocre Quarterback and Shanahan being a mediocre head coach

49ers window is closing and Brock Purdy has shown that he isn't that guy to get them over the line, The Niners need to ask The Bears what their asking price for Justin Fields is as Fields with these weapons would be straight up fire.
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Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71683 on: February 16, 2024, 11:36:42 am »
Wilks was used like a scapegoat for Purdy being a mediocre Quarterback and Shanahan being a mediocre head coach

49ers window is closing and Brock Purdy has shown that he isn't that guy to get them over the line, The Niners need to ask The Bears what their asking price for Justin Fields is as Fields with these weapons would be straight up fire.


Wilks wasn’t a scapegoat in my opinion. Mainly because no scapegoat was needed. No-one is under pressure. Think the decision is a reflection of scheme fit.

The Purdy - Fields shout is wild. But let’s say for example the 49ers did trade for Fields, what would you be willing to give up draft wise for him?


If you got Fields what would you do with his contract. He’s coming into the 4th year of his rookie deal with a cap hit of about 6M. If you are giving up draft picks, I’d assume you want to extend Fields at that point. What contract value and cap hit would you carry on a 2nd contract?

Purdy’s cap hit is about $1M each for next 2 seasons. I’d suggest Fields is going to be considerably more on a new contract.

So how do you propose you manage cap space with need to extend Aiyuk, Lenoir,, Ward and maybe Greenlaw in next 12 months? Sacrifice a Kittle or Samuel? Or lose one of those promising players? Or have a lot less depth?

All of the above would need to be considered. But the main consideration is player ability. Purdy has reached NFCCG as rookie and SuperBowl as 1st year starter. He has flaws but has continued to improve. Maybe he’ll never be the QB to get the 49ers over the line. But what evidence is there that Fields is? Or at this point that  Fields is even a better player?

The most important consideration overall would be that Fields is considerably better than Purdy that it warrants the use of draft picks and significant cap space that then can’t be used to strengthen other positions or potentially keep existing players.

Good to hear your thoughts on this.
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Offline Garrus

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71684 on: February 16, 2024, 11:38:34 am »
I like Fields but he doesn't process plays as quickly and efficiently as Purdy does. Might improve under Shanahan but can't see it.

If Shanahan were let go by the 49ers, 80% of the teams in the league wouldn't hesitate to hire him. He is definitely not mediocre.

Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71685 on: February 16, 2024, 12:05:30 pm »
I like Fields but he doesn't process plays as quickly and efficiently as Purdy does. Might improve under Shanahan but can't see it.

If Shanahan were let go by the 49ers, 80% of the teams in the league wouldn't hesitate to hire him. He is definitely not mediocre.

In Shanahan’s scheme the key traits for QBs is to process quickly and throw accurately into the middle of the field. Pick on the linebackers and have skill position players who can exploit YAC.

Doesn’t feel like a nice fit for Fields at this point.

For me, the key is to get better OL protection for Purdy. That’s were a few key plays fell down. Burford (RG) and McKivitz (RT) are the weaker spots on OL. Both are still quite inexperienced and could get better. However I fully expect OL investment in draft. Long term replacement for Williams and some other options for either RG or RT. I think it’ll be a draft were 49ers don’t really target picking any skill position offensive players in 1st 4-5 rounds. If a player they like falls to them the maybe they will. Think draft picks will be OL and DL heavy over 1st 2 days
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Offline redwillow

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71686 on: February 16, 2024, 12:47:09 pm »
In Shanahan’s scheme the key traits for QBs is to process quickly and throw accurately into the middle of the field. Pick on the linebackers and have skill position players who can exploit YAC.

Doesn’t feel like a nice fit for Fields at this point.

For me, the key is to get better OL protection for Purdy. That’s were a few key plays fell down. Burford (RG) and McKivitz (RT) are the weaker spots on OL. Both are still quite inexperienced and could get better. However I fully expect OL investment in draft. Long term replacement for Williams and some other options for either RG or RT. I think it’ll be a draft were 49ers don’t really target picking any skill position offensive players in 1st 4-5 rounds. If a player they like falls to them the maybe they will. Think draft picks will be OL and DL heavy over 1st 2 days

i was going to ask where do they improve in the draft. I would have thought the DB group would be first choice, followed by OL and then maybe a project WR incase Aiyuk leaves.

A quick look at the cap space boards, 49ers don't have much room to move and i don't know of any big FA leaving? They might look at the Aiyuk contract this year...

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71687 on: February 16, 2024, 01:17:41 pm »
OL has to be priority IMO.

If the Oline doesn't melt like it did, SF win the Superbowl.

Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71688 on: February 16, 2024, 01:18:37 pm »
i was going to ask where do they improve in the draft. I would have thought the DB group would be first choice, followed by OL and then maybe a project WR incase Aiyuk leaves.

A quick look at the cap space boards, 49ers don't have much room to move and i don't know of any big FA leaving? They might look at the Aiyuk contract this year...


In terms of DBs I think they have a core of good young players. Lenior and Ward (2023 2nd team All-Pro) as starting cornerbacks and Talonoa Hufanga (2022 1st team All-Pro) & Jayir Brown (rookie) at safety give a good young core of DBs. Tashaun Giipson has been an excellent veteran safety over last 2 seasons. If he doesn’t come back that leaves a gap. Nickel corner is potentially a gap. Samuel Womack ended up there after an injury hit 2nd season. Isaiah Oliver was a free agent pick up from the Falcons last off season but hasn’t really worked out.

I think the order of priority should be OL, DL and DB in that order. OL mainly to have long term LT option but also build depth. Think DL and DB depth will probably depend on who is retained. Potential to lose a fair few on DL to free agency (Chase Young, Randy Gregory, Javon Kinlaw, Clelin Ferrell being the main ones).
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Offline redwillow

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71689 on: February 16, 2024, 01:25:15 pm »
OL has to be priority IMO.

If the Oline doesn't melt like it did, SF win the Superbowl.

The OL didn't melt, the run game was just stopped. KC defense always balls out second half, not the first half.

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71690 on: February 16, 2024, 01:39:44 pm »
The OL didn't melt, the run game was just stopped. KC defense always balls out second half, not the first half.

KC adjusted brilliantly, I'm not at all going to claim that their success was all because of SF failings. However even the best adjustments should not result in a free runner at the QB in what seemed like every other passing play. The SF Oline being fairly poor is not a revelation. It needs fixing.

Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71691 on: February 16, 2024, 01:40:48 pm »
The OL didn't melt, the run game was just stopped. KC defense always balls out second half, not the first half.

On a small number of key plays a breakdown on the OL was key. I think the 3rd and 4 in OT in the redzone was one example. Spencer Burford at RG just missed his assignment, Jones got pressure on Purdy and he missed Jennings for the TD. There was a couple of other plays.

It’s not just the SuperBowl though. That just provides the most recent high profile examples. Over the season I think you get elite performance at LT from Trent Williams in both the run and passing game, Aaron Banks at LG is ever improving. I think it’s centre (Brendel), RG (Burford) and RT (McKivitz) were you get more up and down performance. They are all inexperienced so may improve. At the moment though the OL as a collective is pretty middle of the road with some obvious areas of weakness that other teams can attack
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Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71692 on: February 16, 2024, 01:44:56 pm »
The other area OL can improve is pre-snap adjustments. Probably experience driven I’m not sure the 49ers are great at this. Purdy being inexperienced doesn’t help this.

It’s why I think the group could improve with experience. However I’d like the insurance policy of draft picks and/or free agent signings to provide depth. Just think cap space and cost of elite OL make draft picks more likely.
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Offline skipper757

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71693 on: February 16, 2024, 03:00:10 pm »
the paradise raiders will huff and puff and not get anywhere really as usual.

what about your new jersey jets?

We're just trying to not get downgraded to the East Rutherford Jets.

And preparing for the next darkness retreat.
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Offline redwillow

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71694 on: February 16, 2024, 04:33:37 pm »
KC adjusted brilliantly, I'm not at all going to claim that their success was all because of SF failings. However even the best adjustments should not result in a free runner at the QB in what seemed like every other passing play. The SF Oline being fairly poor is not a revelation. It needs fixing.

This is literally the Spags blueprint of success, trick the Offence in the first half & give up some scores. Second half be completely different and shell shock the QB.

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71695 on: February 16, 2024, 09:11:09 pm »
Apple TV have launched a new documentary [all warts & all] on the Pats called "The Dynasty New England Patriots" goes through everything from 2000

https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-dynasty-new-england-patriots/umc.cmc.e399kebej378s053scn8nghf
#Sausages

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71696 on: February 17, 2024, 03:59:58 pm »
Wilks was used like a scapegoat for Purdy being a mediocre Quarterback and Shanahan being a mediocre head coach

49ers window is closing and Brock Purdy has shown that he isn't that guy to get them over the line, The Niners need to ask The Bears what their asking price for Justin Fields is as Fields with these weapons would be straight up fire.

Your a idiot. Wilks was getting fired even if they won the Superbowl. The race baiters already out in force over this scapegoat nonsense.

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71697 on: February 17, 2024, 09:33:26 pm »

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Offline Skeeve

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71699 on: February 19, 2024, 01:50:17 pm »
https://twitter.com/TheSimpsonsNFL/status/1758630291910856793

Saddest part about the Bears one is that the Lions are in the laughing at them part atm.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71700 on: February 19, 2024, 02:26:52 pm »
Your a idiot. Wilks was getting fired even if they won the Superbowl. The race baiters already out in force over this scapegoat nonsense.

Misspelling a word in the same sentence you're calling someone an idiot in is peak internet.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline Vegeta

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71701 on: February 19, 2024, 07:23:24 pm »
Your a idiot. Wilks was getting fired even if they won the Superbowl. The race baiters already out in force over this scapegoat nonsense.
When The Niners finish 6-11 next season and miss the playoffs because of Purdy's mediocre play and Shanascam's idiotic coaching than your gonna remember who the real idiots are

I remember when we made The Super Bowl in 2019 the next season we didn't make the playoffs and I'll bet my house on it that history will repeat itself.
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Offline Romford_Red

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71702 on: February 19, 2024, 08:10:23 pm »
When The Niners finish 6-11 next season and miss the playoffs because of Purdy's mediocre play and Shanascam's idiotic coaching than your gonna remember who the real idiots are

I remember when we made The Super Bowl in 2019 the next season we didn't make the playoffs and I'll bet my house on it that history will repeat itself.

Spoken with such confidence for a person who doesn't know who appeared in the 2019 Super Bowl (it was Rams and Pats, just to save you some time). 9ers was 2020.

Then the following season the 9ers ended with a league high amount of players on Injured reserve and lost lots of significant players to long injury layoffs, including Bosa, Mostert, Deebo, Kittle and Garropolo, having also lost such talents as Buckner and Staley in the off season. All while the whole league battled the covid rules.

So you know, there were no mitigating circumstances at all.

I'm by no means an apologist or truther or anything like that but have no idea why people are so keen to bash Shanahan or Purdy, or indeed anyone else in such a way. End of the day 2 Superbowls were lost to the Chiefs, one by an errant Jimmy G pass and one by a missed blocking assignment. Those are the margins at that level.

I haven't even mentioned the significant injuries to key personnel on Superbowl night. Greenlaw, for example. Yes Spags adjusts well, but the Chiefs progress on offense pre and post his departure is significant.

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71703 on: February 19, 2024, 08:17:52 pm »
Predicting the super bowl lovers to not do all that well in the season after isn't really going out on a limb.

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71704 on: February 19, 2024, 09:40:43 pm »
Predicting the super bowl lovers to not do all that well in the season after isn't really going out on a limb.
Aha, but what about the haters?  ;)

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71705 on: February 19, 2024, 09:56:17 pm »
fuck's sake.

I'm not even going to bother going back and changing it now.

Offline skipper757

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71706 on: February 19, 2024, 09:57:08 pm »
Aha, but what about the haters?  ;)

Players are going to play, play, play

Haters are going to hate, hate, hate
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71707 on: February 20, 2024, 03:14:54 am »
Aha, but what about the haters?  ;)

Haters wanna hate
Lovers wanna love
I don't even want
None of the above...
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Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71708 on: February 20, 2024, 11:55:50 am »
When The Niners finish 6-11 next season and miss the playoffs because of Purdy's mediocre play and Shanascam's idiotic coaching than your gonna remember who the real idiots are

I remember when we made The Super Bowl in 2019 the next season we didn't make the playoffs and I'll bet my house on it that history will repeat itself.


What would you do if you were 49ers GM?


We’ve heard the Fields shout. What else, within reason?
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Offline PaddingtonRed

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71709 on: February 20, 2024, 01:39:16 pm »
The Bengals one is great.

Depressingly accurate, the Pats one is brilliant

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71710 on: February 20, 2024, 02:50:32 pm »

What would you do if you were 49ers GM?


We’ve heard the Fields shout. What else, within reason?
I give Shanny one more season and if he still can't get the job done I'm hiring Ben Johnson
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71711 on: February 20, 2024, 05:01:27 pm »
When The Niners finish 6-11 next season and miss the playoffs because of Purdy's mediocre play and Shanascam's idiotic coaching than your gonna remember who the real idiots are

I remember when we made The Super Bowl in 2019 the next season we didn't make the playoffs and I'll bet my house on it that history will repeat itself.

Purdy is a fantastic QB - you don't, in your second year (first full year) lead the league in every single offensive stat imaginable other than TDs (and you get 3rd in that metric), behind a bottom 5 O Line in the league if you are a "mediocre" QB.  If our defense could stop the most obvious QB run I've ever seen *TWICE* on a 4th and medium - nothing Purdy did in the game was anything other top notch for such a young QB.  Compare him this year to Jalen Hurts for instance - hyped up last year thanks to a brilliant O Line and WRs - this year, teams have figured out his running patterns, and all of a suddent the Eagles can't even get past the wild card and he shat the bed in pretty much every big game they played.

It is utterly batshit your thought that a) the really quite average Justin Fields would be an improvement and b) that you are compring a 2020 SF team where we had 3 actively bad QBs sharing the slot thanks to injuries (Jimmy G, Nick Mullens and CJ Beathard), had no real run game  and had a WRs corps that had major injuries to Deebo, Kittle and Aiyuk to this years. 

Offline jedimaster

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71712 on: February 20, 2024, 07:18:22 pm »
I give Shanny one more season and if he still can't get the job done I'm hiring Ben Johnson

Good call, they could do with a bit of help with their sprinting
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Offline redwillow

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71713 on: February 21, 2024, 10:34:24 am »
Purdy is a fantastic QB - you don't, in your second year (first full year) lead the league in every single offensive stat imaginable other than TDs (and you get 3rd in that metric), behind a bottom 5 O Line in the league if you are a "mediocre" QB.  If our defense could stop the most obvious QB run I've ever seen *TWICE* on a 4th and medium - nothing Purdy did in the game was anything other top notch for such a young QB.  Compare him this year to Jalen Hurts for instance - hyped up last year thanks to a brilliant O Line and WRs - this year, teams have figured out his running patterns, and all of a suddent the Eagles can't even get past the wild card and he shat the bed in pretty much every big game they played.

It is utterly batshit your thought that a) the really quite average Justin Fields would be an improvement and b) that you are compring a 2020 SF team where we had 3 actively bad QBs sharing the slot thanks to injuries (Jimmy G, Nick Mullens and CJ Beathard), had no real run game  and had a WRs corps that had major injuries to Deebo, Kittle and Aiyuk to this years.

I will just add in, whilst i am not as high on Purdy as others are, i would not move on from him for the 2024 season if i was the Whiners GM. He is good, and your not going to improve on him with any trade or FA signing and pick 31 in the draft will be a huge gamble. Stick with him, keep as much of that offence as possible for as long as possible and continue to strengthen the run game

Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71714 on: February 21, 2024, 02:53:26 pm »
I give Shanny one more season and if he still can't get the job done I'm hiring Ben Johnson

What’s your thought process on giving Shanahan another season if you are thinking they are heading for a losing season?

What would you do with Aiyuk? Rumours salary cap is going to be close to 250M in 2024. 49ers also have about 35M to rollover from 2023. However they might still struggle to pay Aiyuk. Can’t release/trade Samuel or Kittle because of the 2024 dead money. Could restructure deals - Greenlaw, Warner, Armstead- but that provide relief in 2024 but more pain in 2025 and beyond.

Do you roll the dice one more time with this roster? Run CMC, Samuel, Kittle into the ground and rebuild 25-26? Or do you trade Aiyuk now? Look to get a high draft pick and pick up an elite OL prospect in draft and replacement WR with your own 1st round pick?


Lots of decisions for 49ers this off season. Not matter what they do they’ll probably enter 2024 season as one of the NFC favourites. Shanahan and Lynch are a big part of that
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Offline redwillow

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71715 on: February 21, 2024, 04:41:54 pm »
What’s your thought process on giving Shanahan another season if you are thinking they are heading for a losing season?

What would you do with Aiyuk? Rumours salary cap is going to be close to 250M in 2024. 49ers also have about 35M to rollover from 2023. However they might still struggle to pay Aiyuk. Can’t release/trade Samuel or Kittle because of the 2024 dead money. Could restructure deals - Greenlaw, Warner, Armstead- but that provide relief in 2024 but more pain in 2025 and beyond.

Do you roll the dice one more time with this roster? Run CMC, Samuel, Kittle into the ground and rebuild 25-26? Or do you trade Aiyuk now? Look to get a high draft pick and pick up an elite OL prospect in draft and replacement WR with your own 1st round pick?


Lots of decisions for 49ers this off season. Not matter what they do they’ll probably enter 2024 season as one of the NFC favourites. Shanahan and Lynch are a big part of that

Juicehead & Greenlaw are likely cap casualties according to reports

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71716 on: February 21, 2024, 04:43:25 pm »
Juicehead & Greenlaw are likely cap casualties according to reports

I'm not really surprised they'd lose Greenlaw if cap is an issue.

Fantastic player but achillies injuries are normally death to NFL players who rely on speed and burst.

Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71717 on: February 22, 2024, 01:22:01 pm »
I'm not really surprised they'd lose Greenlaw if cap is an issue.

Fantastic player but achillies injuries are normally death to NFL players who rely on speed and burst.

Both would have a relatively low dead money and I think would save 8-10M in 2024.

I’m not sure if they want to cut Greenlaw though. I just think they might look for other ways to make the cap work.
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71718 on: February 22, 2024, 04:20:12 pm »
Both would have a relatively low dead money and I think would save 8-10M in 2024.

I’m not sure if they want to cut Greenlaw though. I just think they might look for other ways to make the cap work.

The Greenlaw we've seen? No. The Greenlaw we might get back...

Honestly love the player but I have NEVER seen an NFL player come back from that injury and be successful. There probably are fringe cases I am forgetting or unaware of but it usually takes 9-12 months to get back and then often a year or two of reduced performance. By that time there are newer flashier toys and they are older and on the road out of the NFL.

Gutted for the dude but this is a business.

Offline Skeeve

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #71719 on: February 23, 2024, 04:32:53 am »

What would you do if you were 49ers GM?


We’ve heard the Fields shout. What else, within reason?

That shout seemed more without reason really.  ;D