Author Topic: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"  (Read 69160 times)

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2023, 02:44:56 pm »
We may well be at the limit of what is financially feasible (but not what is possible).

It is possible to redevelop the SKD to the same capacity as the Main. Is it feasible? I doubt it - especially when you consider the properties behind and the geometry of the existing stand and the likelihood of needing to demolish and re-build the upper tier. Given it already has plenty of hospitality seating, where's the extra income going to come from to make it all feasible?

Solve that conundrum and then you might possibly consider how to get people out of their cars.

Why? Can't we just extend the upper tier, so it is similar to the new ARE stand, although a bit steeper?

« Last Edit: March 10, 2023, 07:59:45 pm by PeterTheRed »

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2023, 09:41:14 pm »
Why? Can't we just extend the upper tier, so it is similar to the new ARE stand, although a bit steeper?


Because the existing tier is very close to the maximum angle permitted and so an extension is unlikely to get 'safety compliant' views. I'm sure the detail explanations are all here somewhere

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2023, 10:06:01 pm »
Because the existing tier is very close to the maximum angle permitted and so an extension is unlikely to get 'safety compliant' views. I'm sure the detail explanations are all here somewhere

Thanks, mate. Although it would be nice to know if we can extend the upper tier under the same (permitted) angle, and what would that mean for the wieving lines ...

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #83 on: March 10, 2023, 10:08:49 pm »
Thanks, mate. Although it would be nice to know if we can extend the upper tier under the same (permitted) angle, and what would that mean for the wieving lines ...

The Centenary Upper is very steep and the view from the back rows is shite, the roof means you can't properly see the far touchline. Everytime the ball goes high you play the guess where that will re-appear game. It's like climbing a mountain as it is
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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #84 on: March 10, 2023, 10:19:33 pm »
The Centenary Upper is very steep and the view from the back rows is shite, the roof means you can't properly see the far touchline. Everytime the ball goes high you play the guess where that will re-appear game. It's like climbing a mountain as it is
When it first opened I hated going onto the upper tierÖ got over it now mind ;D
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Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #85 on: March 10, 2023, 10:22:13 pm »
The Centenary Upper is very steep and the view from the back rows is shite, the roof means you can't properly see the far touchline. Everytime the ball goes high you play the guess where that will re-appear game. It's like climbing a mountain as it is

As I have already suggested, any extension of the upper tier of the SKD stand would need to include a completely new roof, similar to the ones at the Main stand and the ARE stand. However, it seems that the angle of the upper tier is not permitting any extension ...

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #86 on: March 10, 2023, 10:32:02 pm »
The Centenary Upper is very steep and the view from the back rows is shite, the roof means you can't properly see the far touchline. Everytime the ball goes high you play the guess where that will re-appear game. It's like climbing a mountain as it is
Yep. worst view in the whole ground. I've sat there once. Never will again
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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2023, 05:02:57 pm »
As I have already suggested, any extension of the upper tier of the SKD stand would need to include a completely new roof, similar to the ones at the Main stand and the ARE stand. However, it seems that the angle of the upper tier is not permitting any extension ...

Don't get me wrong, anything can be done - almost nothing is impossible but you are supposed to be able to see a ball in flight 18m above the centre spot, so ANY kind of extension means a new roof.

Thanks, mate. Although it would be nice to know if we can extend the upper tier under the same (permitted) angle, and what would that mean for the wieving lines ...

The even bigger problem is the view of the near touchline. The further back you go at the same angle the worse the view gets. Any extension would need to be at a steeper angle to get over the issue but the existing angle is about or under one degree below the maximum and one degree is unlikely to be enough (the max used to be 34 degrees, it's now 35 degrees).

I worked this all out a few years ago but it was based on a combinations of certain assumptions, a 3D model I had and measuring off pdf. I think it was close enough. At the end of the day, if the existing stand is at the max then anything new is going to be an issue in terms of sightlines - even without touching a calculator.

After distance and angle, the other factor is height (the higher it is for a given angle, the worse the view). The 'answer' would be to demolish the upper tier, reduce the height by getting rid of or putting the boxes under the stand, build a new upper tier at an angle (say 30 degrees) between the lower centenary (25 degrees? - I can't remember) and the new extension at the new maximum of 35 degrees and then angle a new roof to give you the 18m clearance.

Also, because it's actually taking out a tier, it's next to impossible to do this out at the back before demolishing the existing upper tier (like the ARE) - so there's at least a season of lost income to think about (and most hospitality seats at that). In terms of cash flow, it's a season or more of income lost forever.

And then, you are dumping the good-earning hospitality seats in the upper tier, (maybe) losing the boxes income, then re-building them at significant cost for no extra income, then adding less income-generating seats at maximum cost at the back. It's a completely different financial model from both Main and ARE and most likely just doesn't work from that point of view (and that's without thinking about houses to buy etc - or buses).

It could happen. I'd really like to see it happen (all things and people being satisfied with the outcome) but I can't currently think of a way it can happen especially since I suspect the club is in financially recovery mode post Covid (even after the record breaking financial year last year).

Even new money coming in is unlikely to change anything. If it came, who ever it came from would want their money looking after just like anyone else would - no such thing as a free lunch.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 05:24:11 pm by Peter McGurk »

Offline whiteboots

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #88 on: March 16, 2023, 06:25:03 pm »
The Centenary Upper is very steep and the view from the back rows is shite, the roof means you can't properly see the far touchline. Everytime the ball goes high you play the guess where that will re-appear game. It's like climbing a mountain as it is

The Main Stand Upper at the back is far worse.

In the centenary, the lower is for dwarfs, i agree with you about the upper , but the view from the Boxes is superb.

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #89 on: March 16, 2023, 06:59:05 pm »
Have they paid 500k for all those houses yet or what.

Offline Lusty

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2023, 01:30:37 pm »
Have they paid 500k for all those houses yet or what.
One up for sale for £180,000 on Skerries, I'm going to snap it up and wait for the club to come calling.  £320,000 profit and I've still got a spare house for free over by the kop.

Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2023, 09:10:18 pm »
Can mods open the Anfield Road thread? I was really enjoying that thread and following the progression with excitement.
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Offline mikeb58

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #92 on: March 18, 2023, 11:14:40 am »
Can mods open the Anfield Road thread? I was really enjoying that thread and following the progression with excitement.

Yeah...I was a bit confused about the merge myself. Just had a good walk around Anfield Road and 97 Avenue.

Lot more brick work completed, looks like 5 completed columns in the centre of the stand and some wall type brickwork towards the SKD stand side. All the concrete steps seem to be in place now. I saw a few workers on site today this morning, didn't hear much though!
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Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #93 on: March 18, 2023, 02:20:03 pm »
Yeah...I was a bit confused about the merge myself. Just had a good walk around Anfield Road and 97 Avenue.

Lot more brick work completed, looks like 5 completed columns in the centre of the stand and some wall type brickwork towards the SKD stand side. All the concrete steps seem to be in place now. I saw a few workers on site today this morning, didn't hear much though!

Cheers for the update mate.
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Offline andy07

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #94 on: March 18, 2023, 09:52:58 pm »
Can mods open the Anfield Road thread? I was really enjoying that thread and following the progression with excitement.

Why is it closed?
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Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #95 on: March 19, 2023, 01:05:54 am »
Why is it closed?

Fans have found out about the low number of ST seats. I understand the concern but that thread it's not about that.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #96 on: March 19, 2023, 01:13:07 am »
Can mods open the Anfield Road thread? I was really enjoying that thread and following the progression with excitement.
looks like it may have been an accident, with it being locked to move some posts into a more relevant thread and retaining the annie road one as it was (but accidentally not reopening)

could try the ask a mod a question thread to ask if it can be reopened

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #97 on: March 19, 2023, 01:52:28 am »
looks like it may have been an accident, with it being locked to move some posts into a more relevant thread and retaining the annie road one as it was (but accidentally not reopening)

could try the ask a mod a question thread to ask if it can be reopened

Cheers, that would be nice. It's taking a bit too long to reopen it.
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Offline koptommy93

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #98 on: March 25, 2023, 11:22:13 pm »
"Liverpool may see the capacity of Anfield reduced if owners FSG decide to refurbish the famous stadium any further.

The club is set to open an expanded Anfield Road End stand in time for next season, with the new £80m development taking Anfieldís capacity to 61,000 ó the fourth largest in the Premier League.

But it is understood FSG will look to improve the Sir Kenny Dalglish Stand, which has a current capacity of 12,000. And if they do ó and no final decision has been made ó then reconfiguring the areas in the lower tier to give fans more room, would actually see capacity drop.

The owners are unlikely to completely rebuild the stand as they have done with the Anfield Road End or Main Stand, due to the close proximity of nearby housing."
https://mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/football/article-11902717/IN-MONEY-West-Ham-secret-multi-million-pound-row-owners-London-Stadium.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailsport
First I've heard of this and it sounds like a shit idea

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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #99 on: March 26, 2023, 02:14:57 pm »
"Liverpool may see the capacity of Anfield reduced if owners FSG decide to refurbish the famous stadium any further.

The club is set to open an expanded Anfield Road End stand in time for next season, with the new £80m development taking Anfieldís capacity to 61,000 ó the fourth largest in the Premier League.

But it is understood FSG will look to improve the Sir Kenny Dalglish Stand, which has a current capacity of 12,000. And if they do ó and no final decision has been made ó then reconfiguring the areas in the lower tier to give fans more room, would actually see capacity drop.

The owners are unlikely to completely rebuild the stand as they have done with the Anfield Road End or Main Stand, due to the close proximity of nearby housing."
https://mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/football/article-11902717/IN-MONEY-West-Ham-secret-multi-million-pound-row-owners-London-Stadium.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailsport
First I've heard of this and it sounds like a shit idea

One of the things I like to do whenever I can is to avoid reading the Mail on Sunday. And it makes no sense - to spend money to sell fewer tickets. Unless of course the intention is to put prices up. Been there, tried that, nobody liked it.

I can remember sitting in the "Kemlyn Road" when I was 18. No problems with leg room. I'm no taller now, so I know what the problem is. Shins are the price you pay for love (of ale and far too many chips).

Offline koptommy93

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #100 on: March 26, 2023, 03:21:03 pm »
One of the things I like to do whenever I can is to avoid reading the Mail on Sunday. And it makes no sense - to spend money to sell fewer tickets. Unless of course the intention is to put prices up. Been there, tried that, nobody liked it.

I can remember sitting in the "Kemlyn Road" when I was 18. No problems with leg room. I'm no taller now, so I know what the problem is. Shins are the price you pay for love (of ale and far too many chips).
Their sports reporting is usually fairly decent but I agree, I see zero point in spending all this money to increase capacity to then reduce it
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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #101 on: March 26, 2023, 04:40:17 pm »
Cheers, that would be nice. It's taking a bit too long to reopen it.

As I said - I've been working away in Malta and Germany and missed that I hadn't reopened it. You can always use report to moderator or drop me a message.
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Offline iamnant

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #102 on: May 7, 2023, 10:34:05 pm »
One of the things I like to do whenever I can is to avoid reading the Mail on Sunday. And it makes no sense - to spend money to sell fewer tickets. Unless of course the intention is to put prices up. Been there, tried that, nobody liked it.

I can remember sitting in the "Kemlyn Road" when I was 18. No problems with leg room. I'm no taller now, so I know what the problem is. Shins are the price you pay for love (of ale and far too many chips).
My seat's in the lower Kenny and the fact you are so crammed in is a god send during the cold days! Body warmth is a glorious thing.

Although, the guy who sometimes comes to games in the seat behind me needs to soften his knees a bit. The big lanky fucker.
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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #103 on: May 7, 2023, 11:14:24 pm »
My seat's in the lower Kenny and the fact you are so crammed in is a god send during the cold days! Body warmth is a glorious thing.

Although, the guy who sometimes comes to games in the seat behind me needs to soften his knees a bit. The big lanky fucker.

We moved out of the Kemlyn into the Kop in about 08, so glad to get away from those bloody seats. Went in there for the Utd legends game with the missus and kids last October, they've all got long legs and hated it and I couldn't stand it either., I'd forgotten how bad it was.

We were row 3, so the view was great, but when it rained you got drowned. Water still dripped off the roof long after the rain had stopped too
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Offline stueya

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #104 on: May 9, 2023, 07:50:07 pm »
We moved out of the Kemlyn into the Kop in about 08, so glad to get away from those bloody seats. Went in there for the Utd legends game with the missus and kids last October, they've all got long legs and hated it and I couldn't stand it either., I'd forgotten how bad it was.

We were row 3, so the view was great, but when it rained you got drowned. Water still dripped off the roof long after the rain had stopped too

Mine are in Row 30in KH, Iím 6í2 so itís a pain in the arse, like the stand though and would be made up if I was in Row 31- the back row by the wall as thereís loads more leg room in them
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Offline billyliddell01

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #105 on: May 9, 2023, 08:05:43 pm »
It wasn't too bad at the start, but after a while (a couple of seasons?) they re-jigged the seating to get more rows in and everyone was moved around a bit. It's pretty poor - I was on row 13 on the half way line (just great) but ended up opposite the away dugout. I get wet only if the wind is in a particular direction. I often get General Sale people next to me, and they all seem to be giants, so I end up with my knees locked together - sigh.

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2023, 10:32:42 am »
Mine are in Row 30in KH, Iím 6í2 so itís a pain in the arse, like the stand though and would be made up if I was in Row 31- the back row by the wall as thereís loads more leg room in them

We were KH too, sometimes hard to see across the pitch, but saw some cracking goals close up. Although I once popped in to see my Ma after a Chelsea game and she said my language was disgusting. I was like what?, "Fuck off Lampard, you fat fucking c*nt".  It was when he broke Xabis ankle and Sky mics picked it up.  :-[

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2023, 05:13:26 pm »
We were KH too, sometimes hard to see across the pitch, but saw some cracking goals close up. Although I once popped in to see my Ma after a Chelsea game and she said my language was disgusting. I was like what?, "Fuck off Lampard, you fat fucking c*nt".  It was when he broke Xabis ankle and Sky mics picked it up.  :-[


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Offline LifelongRed, Sussex

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #108 on: May 23, 2023, 07:09:44 pm »
Anfield regulars.  If you had to guess, will The Kop or SKD stand be expanded next?

Iím fully aware of Skerries Road, right to light issues.

Iím not grumbling at all about the two rebuilt stands. Iím too young to remember (officially :) ) 61,000 in the famous stadium, to me the two new stands are fabulous monsters.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2023, 07:12:07 pm by LifelongRed,Sussex »

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #109 on: June 2, 2023, 09:12:04 am »
Anfield regulars.  If you had to guess, will The Kop or SKD stand be expanded next?

Iím fully aware of Skerries Road, right to light issues.

Iím not grumbling at all about the two rebuilt stands. Iím too young to remember (officially :) ) 61,000 in the famous stadium, to me the two new stands are fabulous monsters.

Would be dream stuff to be able to rebuild the SKD and KOP using similar parameters as the ARE and Main. Have it all lined up. A massive single tier Kop as the cherry on top. But more chance of me scoring a hat-trick for the reds in the champions league final unfortunately.

Offline LifelongRed, Sussex

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #110 on: June 3, 2023, 05:29:08 pm »
Would be dream stuff to be able to rebuild the SKD and KOP using similar parameters as the ARE and Main. Have it all lined up. A massive single tier Kop as the cherry on top. But more chance of me scoring a hat-trick for the reds in the champions league final unfortunately.

My instinct is that one day thereíll be a larger Kop, I realise Walton Breck Road is an issue, engineers/architects can find solutions.

Peter McGurk will sensibly explain why it wonít happen, as the spend wonít be justified by the small increase in income.

I feel thereíll be an upgrade and expansion, probably post FSG.

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #111 on: June 3, 2023, 05:34:06 pm »
^
I think the Kop will get done eventually. Maybe even the Kenneth too.

A lot of sensible people explained why the Main and the Anny couldn't/wouldn't get done in the past, yet here we are. Things change. Times change.
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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #112 on: June 3, 2023, 06:58:42 pm »
^
I think the Kop will get done eventually. Maybe even the Kenneth too.

A lot of sensible people explained why the Main and the Anny couldn't/wouldn't get done in the past, yet here we are. Things change. Times change.

True. I don't get all the pessimism.
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Offline CanuckYNWA

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #113 on: June 3, 2023, 07:52:22 pm »
^
I think the Kop will get done eventually. Maybe even the Kenneth too.

Someone did a mock-up with the idea of Walton Breck road going underneath the stand as other stadiums have done that around the world

If thats a possibility than I cant see the Kop never being done as thats the main issue, the road proximity to the stand

But I think the thing that will have to happen before any further development is a train station, just cant see them adding even more seats without that

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #114 on: June 4, 2023, 08:22:49 am »
True. I don't get all the pessimism.

Pessimism or realism.
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Offline Redric1970

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #115 on: July 1, 2023, 10:07:44 pm »
I have always thought this would be another way to add purely a guess 2000-3000 seats (I have 0 knowledge of building except for Lego with the kids) and maybe at the same time making the stand a little higher thus matching the roof in with the other 2 stands. I know itís never that straightforward but hey ho. Iím sure most people on here have a better knowledge than me but Iíve thought for a long time both ends of the KD stand were a mess. And also with the brick tower externally on the stand would it not be possible to extend the upper tier to that point and in so not really enlarging the footprint of the stand past those towers (Iíve tried to show in one of the photos) the KD stand could then be raised to the same height (itís not a million miles off now) as the new anfield road stand and make the roofs on the 3 stands marry together, I understand adding 5-6 metres effects right to light but letís be honest if the club approached the 20 odd houses and said we want to heighten the stand by 5-6 metres but in doing so we will compensate you there would be no way people would say no, but as I said Iím no expert I just enjoy the development of the ground, and hearing from people on here with better knowledge is very interesting.
« Last Edit: July 1, 2023, 10:25:42 pm by Redric1970 »

Offline Kop Kenny

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #116 on: July 21, 2023, 04:10:04 pm »
I think realistically the only way to ever redevelop the SKD stand is to buy back the houses behind it that we stupidly sold for a pittance, your idea unfortunately would fall foul of planning regs, right to light and worse FA and UEFA rules on stand elevation angles etc I believe in the current situation.

The new Main stand is a classic example of how much land you need to build a stand of that size minus the extra land we never developed that was supposed to be an hotel but realistically you're talking buying up at least the next street, which I think we sold to a housing association. Personally I would love to see a new SKD emerge as a mirror of the Main and the same with the Kop but single tier but with the complexities of re-routing WBR I doubt it will ever happen.
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Offline PaulKS

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #117 on: July 26, 2023, 12:12:12 pm »
The front row of the upper KD is the best seat in the house IMO

The back is the absolute worst

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #118 on: July 26, 2023, 01:08:06 pm »
The front row of the upper KD is the best seat in the house IMO

The back is the absolute worst
Agree, esp. about the back. Did it once, never will again
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Re: Centenary Stand "Upgrade"
« Reply #119 on: July 26, 2023, 11:29:03 pm »
Mine are in Row 30in KH, Iím 6í2 so itís a pain in the arse, like the stand though and would be made up if I was in Row 31- the back row by the wall as thereís loads more leg room in them

I'm 5'9 and don't fit in those seats so feel for you. Row 26 in front of the disabled part, only one row behind now.
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