Topic: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?

[Timbo's Goals]

Shit - and just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water

August 31st 2014 - White hart lane

Spurs 0 - Liverpool [with pacy mobile striker] 3



August 31st 2014 - to date

Liverpool without pacy mobile striker ie an attacking outlet worthy of the fucking name = utter fucking shite



Novermber 23rd 2014  - Sehurst Park

Liverpool with pacy mobile striker attacking outlet worthy of the fucking name restored to team = normal service resumed.


Liverpool without pacy mobile striker ie an attacking outlet worthy of the fucking name = we live in hope


Simple as that.


FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK our transfer committee or whoever the fuck it was responsible for the fucking shambles in the summer of not bringing in a replacement/stand-by attacking outlet

 

[ThePeetmix]

In our system Remy would have fit in much better...

Had we tried to play him regular though, we would more than likely have lost him to injury a fair bit too.

[BigAl24]

Fucking everything.

[idontknow]

Come the glorious day the agents will be first against the wall.

In the wall, I don't care who they are but they need to be in the wall, or at least try having a wall for once. But in the wall. Try them in the wall before putting them against it. They might be sufficient and not jump out the way. I have hopes, not high ones, don't mention that, they will jump up and the ball will go under. I have low hopes and hopes for high agents. Put the agents in the wall, and the newsagents, and any regents going spare, but have a wall. Nick Hadrian's and put it on the pitch, after tonight it is sadly of no use where it is. We need it. Let us take it, no-one will notice. Paint on red shorts, and give it a go. Just keep hush about it.

[ThePoolMan]

Is that the subjective talking inside you or the objective?

He was always going to go. FSG dug their heels in and refused last summer, but there is only so much you can hold on to. If Rodgers threatens to resign he is basically putting one player before the club. FSG didn't cause any debacle around Suarez, he went for the same reasons as Alonso and Mascherano did.

What the club and transfer committee is at fault for is not having a proper contingency plan in place for his eventual departure, and we ended up with Lambert and Balotelli. 2 players that went against the style of play that made the team so successful last season. Sturridge got injured, and since the beginning of the season not ONE league goal has been scored between Lambert, Balotelli and Borini. Not one! That's a big part of the problem right there.

It is exactly because they had no contingency plan that they should have said - well that's too bad, you are going nowhere until we get a credible alternative. What, Sanchez doesn't want to come to Liverpool? Well too jolly bad then Barcelona, it's up to you to persuade him to come to Anfield if you want Suarez or it's no cigar. What, you are upset and throwing your toys out of the pram, Suarez? Well too bad eh, because you are going to stay right there until we get someone who can replace you.

[plskikme]

It is exactly because they had no contingency plan that they should have said - well that's too bad, you are going nowhere until we get a credible alternative. What, Sanchez doesn't want to come to Liverpool? Well too jolly bad then Barcelona, it's up to you to persuade him to come to Anfield if you want Suarez or it's no cigar. What, you are upset and throwing your toys out of the pram, Suarez? Well too bad eh, because you are going to stay right there until we get someone who can replace you.

Well said. It's not like his value would have dropped. But again, you can't blame it all on the owners for trusting the rest of the club to have done their scouting and done it well.

[Fromola]

It's a complete mess at the moment and it's going to be tough to solve If Sturridge is done now for another month or two then Rodgers needs to come up with something to tide us over until at least January.

I wonder if we could look at 05/06 which made us a lot more solid in the league after 04/05. We had the big man Crouch on his own, Gerrard on the right and getting forward and in the box to support him and get on the end of his knockdowns, Kewell on the left, Garcia playing off Crouch and Sissokho and Alonso in the middle.

Lambert up front doing the Crouch role for a run of games (or Borini leading the line), Henderson or Borini on the right tucking in and pressing hard, Sterling on the left, Coutinho or Lallana doing the Garcia role and Lucas and Allen or Can in the middle.  Plenty of potential impact players on the bench. Back four of Moreno, Sakho, Toure and Manquilo if possible.

More of a 4-5-1 (Which can also be 4-3-3) to keep things solid and a very solid bench to come on and impact the game. Go back more to a possession game. Basically a bit more of the Real Madrid away prototype but without facing anything like that quality of opposition again.

[beardsley4ever]

Just what is going right?

[Mutton Geoff]

It's a complete mess at the moment and it's going to be tough to solve If Sturridge is done now for another month or two then Rodgers needs to come up with something to tide us over until at least January.

I wonder if we could look at 05/06 which made us a lot more solid in the league after 04/05. We had the big man Crouch on his own, Gerrard on the right and getting forward and in the box to support him and get on the end of his knockdowns, Kewell on the left, Garcia playing off Crouch and Sissokho and Alonso in the middle.

Lambert up front doing the Crouch role for a run of games (or Borini leading the line), Henderson or Borini on the right tucking in and pressing hard, Sterling on the left, Coutinho or Lallana doing the Garcia role and Lucas and Allen or Can in the middle.  Plenty of potential impact players on the bench. Back four of Moreno, Sakho, Toure and Manquilo if possible.

More of a 4-5-1 (Which can also be 4-3-3) to keep things solid and a very solid bench to come on and impact the game. Go back more to a possession game. Basically a bit more of the Real Madrid away prototype but without facing anything like that quality of opposition again.

Not being funny (well yes i am) but as you like a few others have always wallowed in negativity i am amazed you are not enjoying in the current situation with the added bonus of using the  I told you so card!

[Mutton Geoff]

Just what is going right?

 Well we are not bottom, not likely to be relegated, not going broke now,  have a chat with a Burnley or Leeds or even Hereford fan and get back to me ok!

[IvanDobskey]

Last season we had a rotten defence, but it really didn't matter as we had the two best strikers in the premiership ripping teams apart and outscoring everyone.

This season, shorn of sturridge and Suarez we are totally toothless up front. Lambert, Borini and Balotelli are all slow, immobile and can't finish. Defence is still poor and shipping lots of silly goals from set pieces though, so its not rocket science that we are losing every week.

Rodgers refuses to change the system, so why didn't he sign the right type of striker in the summer? Totally baffling!

[beardsley4ever]

Well we are not bottom, not likely to be relegated, not going broke now,  have a chat with a Burnley or Leeds or even Hereford fan and get back to me ok!

I feel much better now. Thanks.  Woohoo!

[Red Sea]

I feel much better now. Thanks.  Woohoo!

Stop being negative, its very boring.

[Fromola]

Not being funny (well yes i am) but as you like a few others have always wallowed in negativity i am amazed you are not enjoying in the current situation with the added bonus of using the  I told you so card!

I'm just fed up with it all. I was resigned to mediocrity and the club being run like a corner shop under Moores and under every manager we'd get a false dawn where you think we're ready to get back to the top. The cup treble under Houllier followed by a 2nd place, winning the CL with Rafa and making another final, signing Joe Cole under Hodgson (for the very feeble minded). Fulham away under Kenny's half season just before he got the permanent job, finishing 2nd under Rodgers.

We never learn. The club is so fucked at its decision making (primarily with transfers) that it always gets fucked up again and people never see it coming. I was generally resigned to mediocrity between 09 and 13 and us being shit. Then we get that great run last season, playing great football, and you hope it's the start of something. Then the summer transfer window opens and we buy the same old shite and waste a load of money and rip up what made us good. It fucked it up for Houllier, Rafa, Dalglish and now Rodgers. We've set ourselves back a few years yet again in one summer.

We've fucked up every summer window since 2007. Making the same mistakes over and over again is insanity and that's where this club is now.

[beardsley4ever]

Stop being negative, its very boring.

It's. 

And look at the thread title.  It's a thread that is supposed to be cathartic, rather than enthusiastic.  We're still allowed to be frustrated and downbeat when everything is going wrong, yeah? 

[beardsley4ever]

It fucked it up for Houllier, Rafa, Dalglish and now Rodgers. We've set ourselves back a few years yet again in one summer.

The parallels are painful.

02 - Finish 2nd.  Sell Fowler (albeit during the season), buy Diouf, have an abysmal next season.
09 - Finish 2nd.  Sell Alonso, buy Aquilani, have an abysmal next season.
14 - Finish 2nd.  Sell Suarez, buy Balotelli (et al), have an abysmal next season.

At some point, I'm going to learn to keep my hopes in check!

[paddysour]

I'm just fed up with it all. I was resigned to mediocrity and the club being run like a corner shop under Moores and under every manager we'd get a false dawn where you think we're ready to get back to the top. The cup treble under Houllier followed by a 2nd place, winning the CL with Rafa and making another final, signing Joe Cole under Hodgson (for the very feeble minded). Fulham away under Kenny's half season just before he got the permanent job, finishing 2nd under Rodgers.

We never learn. The club is so fucked at its decision making (primarily with transfers) that it always gets fucked up again and people never see it coming. I was generally resigned to mediocrity between 09 and 13 and us being shit. Then we get that great run last season, playing great football, and you hope it's the start of something. Then the summer transfer window opens and we buy the same old shite and waste a load of money and rip up what made us good. It fucked it up for Houllier, Rafa, Dalglish and now Rodgers. We've set ourselves back a few years yet again in one summer.

We've fucked up every summer window since 2007. Making the same mistakes over and over again is insanity and that's where this club is now.

Spot on. The worst thing is the whole fan base gets itself sucked in every year and convinces itself the transfers are awesome. I wonder if everyone had called out the ridiculousness of those Southampton deals at the time, would that have influenced our decision to go back after the world cup? Probably not, it just sucks that we can't do anything about the same mistakes being made over and over.

[Fromola]

Spot on. The worst thing is the whole fan base gets itself sucked in every year and convinces itself the transfers are awesome. I wonder if everyone had called out the ridiculousness of those Southampton deals at the time, would that have influenced our decision to go back after the world cup? Probably not, it just sucks that we can't do anything about the same mistakes being made over and over.

The worst thing about the Southampton deals is if we'd spent the £50m on 3 of Schneiderlin, Wanyama, Clyne, Shaw i'd have been happy with it because CDM and full back is where we're particularly weak and these are good players. For a number of reasons I found the Lovren deal outright baffling, Lambert was a strange one but a cheap gamble and Lallana was a luxury buy and not a player we needed for that price. These things were obvious at the time but we just can't strategise with transfers.

At least we did get two full backs in but we had to sign a top player to our attack after losing Suarez (a star player not a star name) and we had to boost our midfield. We did neither and we're paying the price.

[jordyball10]

The worst thing about the Southampton deals is if we'd spent the £50m on 3 of Schneiderlin, Wanyama, Clyne, Shaw i'd have been happy with it because CDM and full back is where we're particularly weak and these are good players. For a number of reasons I found the Lovren deal outright baffling, Lambert was a strange one but a cheap gamble and Lallana was a luxury buy and not a player we needed for that price. These things were obvious at the time but we just can't strategise with transfers.

At least we did get two full backs in but we had to sign a top player to our attack after losing Suarez (a star player not a star name) and we had to boost our midfield. We did neither and we're paying the price.

Alexis was the man

[Fromola]

Alexis was the man

Absolutely he was but it was as if we gave up on the season when we missed out on him and then put all our eggs in the Sturridge basket and hoped a complete wild card in Balotelli might come off.

The way I saw it Sanchez could have offered 80% of what Suarez did in terms of work rate and productivity and we could have looked to made up the other 20% elsewhere. Instead we've pretty much lost 100% of what Suarez offered andbarely made up any of the 100% elsewhere. Had we signed Sanchez we'd have been okay and a good bet for top 3.

[beardsley4ever]

Absolutely he was but it was as if we gave up on the season when we missed out on him and then put all our eggs in the Sturridge basket and hoped a complete wild card in Balotelli might come off.

The way I saw it Sanchez could have offered 80% of what Suarez did in terms of work rate and productivity and we could have looked to made up the other 20% elsewhere. Instead we've pretty much lost 100% of what Suarez offered andbarely made up any of the 100% elsewhere. Had we signed Sanchez we'd have been okay and a good bet for top 3.

Is there any evidence that we didn't do all we could?  Maybe he just wanted to go to Arsenal instead?

[Mutton Geoff]

Why am reading this page and thinking three old ladies sitting in a snug moaning about the price of bread?

[Red Sea]

Why am reading this page and thinking three old ladies sitting in a snug moaning about the price of bread?

mate, these fellas prefer moaning to supporting the team, its a sport to them, rather than football.
All in all, its Novemeber, November, fucking November, lets give brendan some breathing space before people start claiming the season is shit.

[JackWard33]

Is there any evidence that we didn't do all we could?  Maybe he just wanted to go to Arsenal instead?

Well there isn't evidence that we did all we could either - we only ever have hearsay and speculation and people seem to see which ever version of events fits their pre existing narrative

For me the problem is very simple - we don't have anyone at the club that knows how to build a great squad with our level of resources. Apart from a couple of Man City scouts I don't think we have a single person that's been involved with doing it at an executive level.
In business (which sadly we are) you're success or failure is defined by the management you put in place. I have no problem with Ayre or others on the commercial side but the bottom line is we're woefully short on the footballing side. It was a worry when the current structure was put in place with Rodgers and Ayre seemingly the only ones with any authority and it's come home to roost this summer.
That said it was always going to be tough - we have the 5th biggest wage bill in the league - which means top 4 is an over achievement (making last year all the more magnificently ridiculous) but it's shouldn't ever be this bad

[HighSix]

Is there any evidence that we didn't do all we could?  Maybe he just wanted to go to Arsenal instead?

Looks like we were just too late & continued to waste time chasing. By the time we sat down with Barce in the well reported London meeting his agent had been dinning out in Brazil with Wenger & started following half the fucking Arsenal squad on Twitter! Its a pretty big hint & one that Juve took switching targets to Morata immediately.
 

[kcbworth]

The only time I EVER remember us doing "all we could" and buying someone in the face of all odds, was...

Andy Carroll

[Latenight Surfer]

Don't worry you all.. we'll be signing a new striker in January.

Dnaile Sturridge. 

[Fromola]

Looks like we were just too late & continued to waste time chasing. By the time we sat down with Barce in the well reported London meeting his agent had been dinning out in Brazil with Wenger & started following half the fucking Arsenal squad on Twitter! Its a pretty big hint & one that Juve took switching targets to Morata immediately.

And Rodgers and co weren't even at the World Cup. We had a far too complacent attitude towards replacing Suarez.

[BEAST]

The worst thing about the Southampton deals is if we'd spent the £50m on 3 of Schneiderlin, Wanyama, Clyne, Shaw i'd have been happy with it because CDM and full back is where we're particularly weak and these are good players.

You'd be lucky to get 2 of those players for 50.  I don't think 50m would be enough for Shaw & Schneiderlin, probably 55-60 just for those 2.

[4pool]

Shit - and just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water

JINX !!!!!


 

[4pool]

The only time I EVER remember us doing "all we could" and buying someone in the face of all odds, was...

Andy Carroll

Ask Ian St. John how he came to be a Liverpool player sometime....

[Ski]

If we don't sort our shit out and quickly we're sitting ducks. Everyone knows they've a great chance of walking away with the points before a ball is even kicked. Looking grim for the foreseeable. Tough winter ahead.

[Ski]

It is exactly because they had no contingency plan that they should have said - well that's too bad, you are going nowhere until we get a credible alternative. What, Sanchez doesn't want to come to Liverpool? Well too jolly bad then Barcelona, it's up to you to persuade him to come to Anfield if you want Suarez or it's no cigar. What, you are upset and throwing your toys out of the pram, Suarez? Well too bad eh, because you are going to stay right there until we get someone who can replace you.

Spot on! Been saying this for a while to all the Reds I speak with regularly. Should have stuck to our guns all the way. If a replacement wasn't found tough noogies Luis.

[cashmere pringle]

release clause ?

[Fromola]

Spot on! Been saying this for a while to all the Reds I speak with regularly. Should have stuck to our guns all the way. If a replacement wasn't found tough noogies Luis.

Once the release clause was inserted in the new deal it was always a matter of time. I think we needed to let him go because Barcelona was the dream for him and he'd basically waited all his life for them to come in for them and they eventually did. It's okay standing firm over Arsenal who he weren't arsed about anyway but Barca would have been different. Plus the fact he'd have been suspended until the other week anyway and one more bite away from a very long term ban.

We should have done more to try and make sure we got Alexis as part of the deal and acted earlier. If not Alexis than why not Pedro? I rate Alexis far higher but Pedro is at least a lot more suited to a Rodgers team than Balotelli or Lambert.

[GrkStav]

Of course Pedro should have been a target. Of course, there are people on RAWK who say things like "he's been shit" or "he's been woeful" since Pep left.

[scumbagcollege]

It is exactly because they had no contingency plan that they should have said - well that's too bad, you are going nowhere until we get a credible alternative. What, Sanchez doesn't want to come to Liverpool? Well too jolly bad then Barcelona, it's up to you to persuade him to come to Anfield if you want Suarez or it's no cigar. What, you are upset and throwing your toys out of the pram, Suarez? Well too bad eh, because you are going to stay right there until we get someone who can replace you.

Who was going to go into the room and pick up the torn and bloodied lifeless body of the poor fucker who had passed on this bit of information to Luis?  

[LiverBirdKop]

Who was going to go into the room and pick up the torn and bloodied lifeless body of the poor fucker who had passed on this bit of information to Luis?  

Last name Lecter.

[Loo Pan]

Spot on! Been saying this for a while to all the Reds I speak with regularly. Should have stuck to our guns all the way. If a replacement wasn't found tough noogies Luis.

We really couldn't do that. He had a release clause in his contract. He was threatening to take legal action when we wouldn't let him join Arsenal, but he didn't have the clause in his contract he thought he had.

Once he re-signed the new contract last December and had the clause put in, there was nothing we could do once Barcelona came in if they were prepared to pay enough. If we'd refused to do business I'm quite certain he'd of taken us to court if need be.

We should have been prepared for his departure, and it's almost unbelievable that we weren't. Sheer incompetence.

[Gnurglan]

It is exactly because they had no contingency plan that they should have said - well that's too bad, you are going nowhere until we get a credible alternative. What, Sanchez doesn't want to come to Liverpool? Well too jolly bad then Barcelona, it's up to you to persuade him to come to Anfield if you want Suarez or it's no cigar. What, you are upset and throwing your toys out of the pram, Suarez? Well too bad eh, because you are going to stay right there until we get someone who can replace you.

We need to let the Suarez deal be. Barca paid the release clause. There was little we could do. We named our price and it was offered. We can't complain about that.

Yes, we could have been better prepared. We ended up with Balotelli and Lambert. Lambert I think was always gonna be a backup option. Something different. Ther's some thought behind it. Which brings me to Balotelli. We need him to perform. Asap. We're talking an Italian international, with experience from top clubs and one we bought for 16M. He needs to start scoring goals.
How we thought he was the best fit seems strange now. Even more so when we went for Remy and Sanchez.