Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[eddymunster]

No matter how much VAR delays the game, makes a meal of the tightest calls etc, the alternative is decisions like the Sterling offside vs City under Rodgers.

VAR has to stay.

[Romford_Red]

No matter how much VAR delays the game, makes a meal of the tightest calls etc, the alternative is decisions like the Sterling offside vs City under Rodgers.

VAR has to stay.

The thing I don't get about the monitors...

The reason given for not using them is the time it would take. For me that doesn't make any sense.
Some decisions either take seconds or happen passively whilst play continues. This should remain the same. However if the incident is more complex and demands greater study, the play is halted and everyone waits. This normally lasts at least 30-60 seconds.

When that happens, how long will it take the ref to jog over to the touchline? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? The VAR guys can do their stuff, get all of the angles ready and then when the ref gets to the monitor they show him the best angles and explain anything they need to. Decision is then made by the ref.

Also, why does the monitor look like Holly's mobile get up from Red Dwarf? Why can't we use a tablet? Could then the 4th official run the tablet on to the ref? Of someone else?

Basically I just don't buy the excuse for not having the onfield ref look at a monitor.

[Yosser0_0]

Offside should be feet only. Lean wherever you want, just don't stand offisde.

Simple.

And bin off VAR. When the manager darent even celebrate due to the shit that is VAR, it's time to go.

I agree.

[4pool]

If play is stopped for a  VAR review...instead of the match Ref stood in the middle of the pitch with his finger to his ear, he should go to the monitor and review the play with the VAR official.

The time of the stoppage would be the same. Who knows maybe shorter.

This way the match Ref would also be seen to giving the correct decision instead of relying on someone else for the information.

[rob1966]

If play is stopped for a  VAR review...instead of the match Ref stood in the middle of the pitch with his finger to his ear, he should go to the monitor and review the play with the VAR official.

The time of the stoppage would be the same. Who knows maybe shorter.

This way the match Ref would also be seen to giving the correct decision instead of relying on someone else for the information.

I really do not get why the Premier League officials think the way they are doing it is quicker. Last week, A Taylor shits out of giving a clear pen in the Manc Derby and stands there waiting for VAR - midweek in the CL, he again shits out of giving a pen, but this time runs over and reviews on the pitchside monitor. In both cases, one or two replays were enough to see they were both pens.

[wenlock]

Offside should be feet only. Lean wherever you want, just don't stand offisde.

Simple.

And bin off VAR. When the manager darent even celebrate due to the shit that is VAR, it's time to go.

What would happen with diving headers?

[rob1966]

What would happen with diving headers?

[Roger Federer]

But they're still not 100% sure they're looking at the freeze frame, from the exact moment the ball is played by the would be assist provider. Until they can be sure of that, then these marginal decisions will continue to be highly questionable.

Completely agree. When the frame is frozen is often overlooked but pivotal in determining offside. That plus that fact that the software evidently calculates the position of things like armpits from where the feet touch the ground. Would love to know what the margin of error is. I bet its larger than some of the distances given offside.

According to this: https://www.givemesport.com/1498162-there-are-flaws-in-var-that-mean-not-every-offside-decision-will-be-correct

the margin of error can be as much as 38 centimeters, that is almost half a yard. That is only considering the margin of error when the ball is played too, how exactly they determine where Firmino's shoulder is in relation to the defenders feet (or knee I think it was) I don't know, but you'd assume that makes the margin of error greater overall. With that in mind I think some of the decisions are absolutely silly. It's obviously impossible to say that Sterling was 2.4 centimeters off.

[rob1966]

According to this: https://www.givemesport.com/1498162-there-are-flaws-in-var-that-mean-not-every-offside-decision-will-be-correct

the margin of error can be as much as 38 centimeters, that is almost half a yard. That is only considering the margin of error when the ball is played too, how exactly they determine where Firmino's shoulder is in relation to the defenders feet (or knee I think it was) I don't know, but you'd assume that makes the margin of error greater overall. With that in mind I think some of the decisions are absolutely silly. It's obviously impossible to say that Sterling was 2.4 centimeters off.

38 centimetres is not in any way an acceptable margin of error.

This pic makes me laugh, fuck Sterlings shoulder, how the hell is Jesus NOT interfering with play? 

[Zeppelin]

Ignoring Jesus, the defender is approximately square on to the penalty area, but Stirling is at an angle, yet the VAR lines seem to assume that Stirling is a 2D figure when drawing the line (I hope that makes sense). Also, at what point does the shoulder begin? Looking at the thickness of the VAR lines, you could just as easily draw the lines starting at a different place and show Sterling as onside. Given the margin of error mentioned in the linked article, these marginal offside decisions are a complete farce.

[rob1966]

Ignoring Jesus, the defender is approximately square on to the penalty area, but Stirling is at an angle, yet the VAR lines seem to assume that Stirling is a 2D figure when drawing the line (I hope that makes sense). Also, at what point does the shoulder begin? Looking at the thickness of the VAR lines, you could just as easily draw the lines starting at a different place and show Sterling as onside. Given the margin of error mentioned in the linked article, these marginal offside decisions are a complete farce.

The thick lines are for TV, Hawkeye use very thin lines.

I posted a video where FIFA were testing the system and the accuracy of the vertical lines was fine, but like you say, how can you work out where his shoulder is. What if he is wearing a baggy shirt that gives the illusion his shoulder is wider than it really is?

The law states that ANY part can be called offside, they need to change this, as otherwise VAR is correct in going to these levels even though it is stupid.

[Roblaar]

Surely its just too technical a process for the limitations it has on timing and position.

An alternative is just give the VAR team 10secs to review.  If it's obviously wrong overturn the decision, if not don't and stick with the on field linesman's decision.  Sometimes they will still be wrong, but not terribly.  I would've ruled out the Mane one at the weekend based on the quick review.

It should omit the howlers without destroying the celebration as you can normally sense if the attacker is close to offside.

[4pool]

Ref's microphoned... here's how it might sound

https://twitter.com/uponthebluemoon/status/1205802376734691329?s=21

[rob1966]

Ref's microphoned... here's how it might sound

https://twitter.com/uponthebluemoon/status/1205802376734691329?s=21

Anthony Taylor in the tunnel at Anfield "Fucking scouse bastards, i'm giving these fuck all today"

VAR - Erm, Anthony, the mike is on.....................................

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Checking to see if a clear foul was inside or outside the box.. and deciding that it wasn't a foul.

What the fuck was that all about?!

The right decision was to reverse the penalty decision and the yellow card, and to award a free-kick and give a red card.

[PaulF]

Like a lot of occasions in the game I didn't even see anything I'd count as contact. Had a ref for local leagues in the house , a united fan at that and he saw one of the tackles we got booked for and said he would not have even given it as a foul.

[Guz-kop]

Checking to see if a clear foul was inside or outside the box.. and deciding that it wasn't a foul.

What the fuck was that all about?!

The right decision was to reverse the penalty decision and the yellow card, and to award a free-kick and give a red card.

Good example tonight that VAR is just a monitor in front of human beings. Ref loat his head with that moment. To end up with 2 wrong decisions (on field and after video check) is really poor

[Peabee]

Good example tonight that VAR is just a monitor in front of human beings. Ref loat his head with that moment. To end up with 2 wrong decisions (on field and after video check) is really poor

The only thing I can think of is that he slowed the clip down so much that it didn’t look like any obvious contact. That’s the trouble with slo-mo replays. Other than that I really don’t know what he was thinking. One of the worst refereeing performances I’ve seen. Worse than Atkinson in the United game.

[Medellin]

The performance from the referee was that bad I ended up laughing during the latter stages of the game yesterday.
Regarding the overturned penalty decision..Firstly I was amazed the referee gave the penalty in the first place.
To then view a replay which constantly showed the same angle was shocking too..If he was shown the different angle no doubt it's given.
The cockhead providing the replay on VAR should be fucked right off for restricting other angles too.
How the fuck do people get the nod to officiate at this level..I say people because they showed no qualities of being qualified to do the job presented to them.
C*nts..the lot of them & that includes the clueless fuckwits who gave them the game.

[red_Mark1980]

Checking to see if a clear foul was inside or outside the box.. and deciding that it wasn't a foul.

What the fuck was that all about?!

The right decision was to reverse the penalty decision and the yellow card, and to award a free-kick and give a red card.

The thing is, even if he believes it's not a foul and the defender has won the ball. Why on God's green earth is he giving a drop ball?

It's a corner to us.

[Iska]

The only thing I can think of is that he slowed the clip down so much that it didn’t look like any obvious contact. That’s the trouble with slo-mo replays.

I actually can’t blame the ref on this one - they tell him he’s got to review that decision, then send him over and make him watch blurred images that don’t show contact but do show whatever happened was outside the box ... what else can he do but overturn it, unless he’s got the balls of steel to insist that that thing he saw three minutes ago, from thirty yards back, was definitely a foul?

The problem is VAR.  It makes things worse.  Though I suppose in this case at least it means we aren’t world champions off a dodgy penalty.

[Lofty Ambitions]

The one aspect of VAR that I don't get is how the linesmen are instructed to flag close calls for off-sides, yet an off-side is not retrospectively given unless a goal is to be cancelled.

Again, today, in Spurs vs Chelsea. Alli is clearly off-side per VAR standards, he is fouled as he gets the ball, yet as off-side is now ignored, they instead check whether it was a penalty or not.

Bonkers.

[farawayred]

VAR in England evolved to an offside-judging tool, which I had found very deficient from the off. We need a different technology for offsides. It's not normal to continue play when a player is in an offside position, from which he gets a free kick, a corner, or whatever other advantage. This needs to be judged on the spot, whether the linesman is right or wrong. Furthermore, there is no sense in reviewing a video footage frame-by-frame to try and judge a millimeter offside when the error is most likely several centimeters. Hawk Eye never reveals what the technology error is in any sport, even that in tennis is still being debated, and independent studies indicate far greater error than Hawk Eye claim.

VAR is not the right tool for ruling over offsides. I'd go back to linesman on-field calls.

[Lofty Ambitions]

I have grown to accept how off-sides are under VAR nowadays. Off-sides are the most objective calls there are, I'd like to have something like one +/1 inch threshold for having the attacking player called level automatically taken into account. So then when it is called an off-side, you'd know there was some leeway left for him having been level. These armpits etc are utter bollocks. Level is level, advantage attacker then.

[thejbs]

There has to be an allowance for error when the technology itself is fallible. If it was 8k footage at 200fps you could maybe understand the mm calls.

[Guz-kop]

I actually can’t blame the ref on this one - they tell him he’s got to review that decision, then send him over and make him watch blurred images that don’t show contact but do show whatever happened was outside the box ... what else can he do but overturn it, unless he’s got the balls of steel to insist that that thing he saw three minutes ago, from thirty yards back, was definitely a foul?

The problem is VAR.  It makes things worse.  Though I suppose in this case at least it means we aren’t world champions off a dodgy penalty.

Can't the two of them have a discussion though? He's got a headset on. Can't he ask for other angles? Can't he ask his mate in the room what he thinks if both of them are being asked to make a decision (unlike cricket where its just 3rd umpire when referred). Whole thing was weird

[Shaun101]

Good example tonight that VAR is just a monitor in front of human beings. Ref loat his head with that moment. To end up with 2 wrong decisions (on field and after video check) is really poor

I heard a quote that summed it up saying it’s like blaming the remote control for the shite telly

At the end of the day the technology could be flawless but it administered by cretins

[Linudden]

Eh...

Get rid. Preferrably four months ago.

[rodderzzz]

Quite happy that one went for city, makes them look a bit fuckin daft now saying its going against them lol

[PIPA23]

Identical retake... absolute joke these decisions...ruining the game.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Quite happy that one went for city, makes them look a bit fuckin daft now saying its going against them lol

Don't you understand? That is exactly why the decisions were given. People were catching onto the conspiracy and so the officials needed to throw them off the scent...

[rodderzzz]

You're glad our title rivals scored a goal? Odd

Mate were winning the league whether they score 100 or 0 over the next 20 games

[Eternalsungod]

What is that moronic rule on penalties anyway? Surely any City players running in first should invalidate any encroaching by the Wolves players. The way it works now is only annoying and takes away a lot of the few penalty saves we have. Not to talk about all the waste of fucking time.

[Linudden]

What is that moronic rule on penalties anyway? Surely any City players running in first should invalidate any encroaching by the Wolves players. The way it works now is only annoying and takes away a lot of the few penalty saves we have. Not to talk about all the waste of fucking time.

If both teams encroach it should automatically cancel itself out. It's such a no-brainer that there's no wonder no-one thought about that before. VAR shouldn't interfere in games, it should only be used if the referee wants proof. As it is, this has turned into a control room dictatorship. No redeeming features whatsoever and yet people are insisting on it ruining league after league.

[Eternalsungod]

If both teams encroach it should automatically cancel itself out. It's such a no-brainer that there's no wonder no-one thought about that before.

I mostly agree with this part. In any case you cannot give an advantage to the first team to encroach. That is so stupid, it is unbelievable.

Apart from that, I hate some aspects of VAR, and how it is implemented, but I actually do see some use for it. On the fence between thrashing it all togheter or just scaling down the use of it/improve the us of it.

[thejbs]

If both teams encroach it should automatically cancel itself out. It's such a no-brainer that there's no wonder no-one thought about that before. VAR shouldn't interfere in games, it should only be used if the referee wants proof. As it is, this has turned into a control room dictatorship. No redeeming features whatsoever and yet people are insisting on it ruining league after league.

Nah, that wouldn’t work as it can be easily exploited. The simplest solution is no rebounds imo.

[CHOPPER]

Dermot (Gordon Lee) Gallagher, is awoken from his coffin to pass judgement on a clear and obvious life changing tackle.


Booby B, talking shite like a shitetalking shite thing on a shite day whilst eating shiteaki mushrooms

[4pool]

On the first pen which was saved..

If a City player encroached and got to the ball first, and lets say scored, then an indirect free kick would have been awarded to Wolves.

As it was a Wolves player who reached the ball first and cleared it, because he encroached, the pen is retaken.


On the second pen, which was saved, Sterling can't encroach as he took the pen. But if a different City player would have got to the ball first, see above. All depends on whether there was encroachment.

[thejbs]

On the first pen which was saved..

If a City player encroached and got to the ball first, and lets say scored, then an indirect free kick would have been awarded to Wolves.

As it was a Wolves player who reached the ball first and cleared it, because he encroached, the pen is retaken.


On the second pen, which was saved, Sterling can't encroach as he took the pen. But if a different City player would have got to the ball first, see above. All depends on whether there was encroachment.

I hadn’t realised that until halftime. Correct call all round.

[gazzalfc]

Nothing wrong with VAR. Atkinson on the other hand is another story