Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[Alan_X]

Did anybody get this email from the Labour party today? Cloud cuckoo land if you ask me, the manifesto makes interesting reading. For some reason the wording that they have used reminds me of a letter VW sent me about my car after they were caught cheating the emissions tests. Apparently there were no problems and they hadn't done anything wrong but they were willing to offer me a free software update which wouldn't effect economy, performance or emissions. 

Also why do Labour keep asking for money in all these emails?

Nigel Frottage is out selling snake oil up and down the UK.

Austerity has driven Britain to the edge. In a country where in-work poverty is rising and productivity is in freefall, the lies from the likes of Frottage are taking root in a fertile soil of anger and dissatisfaction. And only Labour has the anti-austerity policies that will bring us together.

In the EU elections, Labour is the only party with a plan to unite Britain. This Thursday, we're fighting to bring our communities together in hope, not fear.


Find my nearest polling station

Read the manifesto

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/transforming-britain-and-europe/?utm_source=bsd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EUGOTV1&source=20190520_EUGOTV1&subsource=bsd_email


You've seen the polls. The European Elections are between us and the divisive rhetoric of the far right like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, who goes by the stage name Tommy Robinson. Labour will end austerity, invest in communities, rebuild our public services, and ensure those with the broadest shoulders pay their fair share. Economic justice, not bigotry and division, must resolve the Brexit deadlock and address the major issues facing our country.

We're the only party that can do this, and we can only do it together.

It's time to make a difference in North West England. Labour will transform Europe and transform Britain for the many, not the few.

Thank you.
Team Labour


With just three days to go, supporters like you are working across the UK to share our message of unity. But we can't do it without your support. From leaflets to organising, your gift will help us bring this country together.

Will you chip in to help fight the right?

Yes, I'll chip in £1
Yes, I'll chip in £3
Yes, I'll chip in £8

That is weird. It's between Labour and Tommy Robinson? What's that all about? They're against Frottage but no mention of Brexit.

I listened to a Labour candidate on the Remainiacs podcast who was questioned about Labour's strategy and why they weren't talking about Brexit in their manifesto - she was saying we need to have the right policies in Europe - despite it being Labour policy to leave the EU.

And that reads as if it's targetted specifically at the NorthWest. I wonder if they have different ones for different areas?

[Elmo!]

That is weird. It's between Labour and Tommy Robinson? What's that all about? They're against Frottage but no mention of Brexit.

I listened to a Labour candidate on the Remainiacs podcast who was questioned about Labour's strategy and why they weren't talking about Brexit in their manifesto - she was saying we need to have the right policies in Europe - despite it being Labour policy to leave the EU.

And that reads as if it's targetted specifically at the NorthWest. I wonder if they have different ones for different areas?

They do, the Scottish leaflets were in Welsh. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48263984

[ShakaHislop]

Blimey. @Channel4News says it has been told by @TheBrexitPartly it has been banned from all future events hosted by the party. They have apparently been blacklisted because of an incident involving access to a Leave Means Leave rally 6 weeks ago.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1130537915799527424

[oldfordie]

I think remain are going to get battered at the elections as they have nobody to rally behind, the conservatives and labour will still get a large, albeit heavily cut vote. Brexit party and ukip to storm ahead. Changeuk, the greens , the libdems and whoever else just aren't doing it.

The polls seem to suggest you're right. having said that there is something called the Frottage effect. the more popular Frottage becomes to the hard core leavers the less support for Brexit. we shall see.
I do agree over the remain support having no main party to rally around, am sure remain would have won the popular vote if Labour had been pro remain but there votes will be either ignored or classed as leave when the final count comes in. tragic as this was the perfect opportunity for Corbyn to win power. he blew it big time and I doubt if the party will ever be as powerful again.

[Red-Soldier]

The polls seem to suggest you're right. having said that there is something called the Frottage effect. the more popular Frottage becomes to the hard core leavers the less support for Brexit. we shall see.
I do agree over the remain support having no main party to rally around, am sure remain would have won the popular vote if Labour had been pro remain but there votes will be either ignored or classed as leave when the final count comes in. tragic as this was the perfect opportunity for Corbyn to win power. he blew it big time and I doubt if the party will ever be as powerful again.

I think we would've seen a massive Labour vote if they came out full Remain, but not to be.

[killer-heels]

I enjoyed Soames and Subry taking it in turns to call Brexiteers lunatics. Tory Brexiteers as well.

I also wish there was a betting market on how quickly the Guardian would write a piece on it about ‘Remainer’ arrogance and it being an example of why people voted Brexit.

[Statto Red]

I don’t think it’s right to throw milkshakes at politicians.  Even the ones I hate.


But I must say the guy who threw a milkshake on Farrage today have one of the funniest answers to the press I’ve ever read

You know when you've been milkshaked.
 

[24/7]

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1130537915799527424

Banning of free media from political activity is classic fascism.......so it continues......

[Statto Red]

Lord Michael Heseltine has the tory whip withdrawn, after saying he'll vote for Lib Dems, over the tories Brexit stance
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48344485

[Red-Soldier]

Banning of free media from political activity is classic fascism.......so it continues......

Fascism 101

[Zeb]

Lord Michael Heseltine has the tory whip withdrawn, after saying he'll vote for Lib Dems, over the tories Brexit stance
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48344485

Looking forward to the Tories now combing the membership for those saying they'll vote for Frottage. They should announce it, just for the giggles of implying they'll be going through members' social media postings before the EHRC gets round to it.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I don’t think it’s right to throw milkshakes at politicians.  Even the ones I hate.


But I must say the guy who threw a milkshake on Farrage today have one of the funniest answers to the press I’ve ever read

coke floats is the logical successor to this

[oldfordie]

I think we would've seen a massive Labour vote if they came out full Remain, but not to be.

Yeah,am sure he would have won far more support and respect from millions of remain voters as well.
The fight was about stopping the country from being polarised rather than arguing we will unite the country after it's become polarised. the best way would have gone out campaigning to remain with strong arguments on why the countries better off in the EU, how a vote to leave will bring a hard right Brexit. Austerity. etc. all the benefits of being in the EU. many of his interviews started off arguing about whats wrong with the EU, we will never know if his influence could have brought about a vote to remain but surely the leader of the Labour party must have a lot of influence over all the left leave voters. 650.000 leave voters switching to remain and we would not be going through all this s...
A lot more has happened since and ive not heard or read anything Corbyn has said to influence voters on Brexit, even now we are hearing spin to defend Labours position, unite the country in hope not fear. nothing could be further than the truth, millions of voters have lost hope in our political system, it will take more than a few meaningless soundbites to bring that belief back.

[Zeb]

PM will make a statement on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill later this afternoon. Seems, from cabinet leaks to journalists, that it's very similar to what was trailed in the talks with Labour. Indicative votes on 4 different forms of customs union. Promises on guarantees that Parliament will set the negotiating objectives for the future relationship etc. Hints of trying to prevent a future fuck up by tying things into devolved government consent. etc etc etc.

In effect, it's a more explicit version of what's always been on offer - "accept Brexit now and next general election will decide just how 'hard' it will be".

[Machae]

Ive come to accept Brexit will happen

[ShakaHislop]

PM will make a statement on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill later this afternoon. Seems, from cabinet leaks to journalists, that it's very similar to what was trailed in the talks with Labour. Indicative votes on 4 different forms of customs union. Promises on guarantees that Parliament will set the negotiating objectives for the future relationship etc. Hints of trying to prevent a future fuck up by tying things into devolved government consent. etc etc etc.

In effect, it's a more explicit version of what's always been on offer - "accept Brexit now and next general election will decide just how 'hard' it will be".

Oh, god have mercy.

[killer-heels]

I knew that Andrea Jenkyns was a clueless c*nt but her appearance on the Daily Politics further illustrated what a fucking stupid cow she really is. Couldn't answer a single question on EU trade deals.

Its absolutely laughable how these MP's pick up £80k. The line has been used for years how these lot can earn more money in other industries. Can they fuck earn more in other industries.

[Andy]

Ive come to accept Brexit will happen

Based on how well it is all going?

[ShakaHislop]

PM will make a statement on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill later this afternoon. Seems, from cabinet leaks to journalists, that it's very similar to what was trailed in the talks with Labour. Indicative votes on 4 different forms of customs union. Promises on guarantees that Parliament will set the negotiating objectives for the future relationship etc. Hints of trying to prevent a future fuck up by tying things into devolved government consent. etc etc etc.

In effect, it's a more explicit version of what's always been on offer - "accept Brexit now and next general election will decide just how 'hard' it will be".

A "temporary customs union" until the next GE is a pathetic offer. Not just because it's only temporary but the transition period + the option to extend it until 2022 serves the same purpose.

[filopastry]

I think Brexit will probably happen as well, and I think the likelihood of no deal is rising significantly as well.

At this stage I am almost indiferent between either May or Corbyn's Brexit model (which is far from a soft Brexit) and a No Deal, both are shit economically, obviously No Deal is worse but politically it kills the betrayal narrative and if any of the Remain supporting parties are at least vaguely competent, you can at least pin the ensuing economic carnage on the Far Right nutters.. Maybe its something that can stop the descent into populist madness....

This country is in a pretty dark place now and I don't think things are going to get any lighter.

[ShakaHislop]

I think Brexit will probably happen as well, and I think the likelihood of no deal is rising significantly as well.

At this stage I am almost indiferent between either May or Corbyn's Brexit model (which is far from a soft Brexit) and a No Deal, both are shit economically, obviously No Deal is worse but politically it kills the betrayal narrative and if any of the Remain supporting parties are at least vaguely competent, you can at least pin the ensuing economic carnage on the Far Right nutters..

This country is in a pretty dark place now and I don't think things are going to get any lighter.

I think one of the nutters becoming PM possibly isn't a bad thing for Remainers. It will force soft Brexiteers to jump off the fence - either onto the "we must deliver on the referendum, even if it means leaving without a deal" side or the "I don't like the idea of another referendum but if it's what it takes to avoid a no deal, then so be it" side.

I still haven't lost all hope that particularly the Labour MPs who to date have held back from supporting a referendum will opt for the latter. Ultimately, constituents will be more angry about losing their jobs than perceived "betrayal" of a 2016 vote, or the continuation of FOM.

[ShakaHislop]

Mr Francois dismissed comments to be made later by Philip Hammond, who will warn prospective Conservative leadership contenders against "hijacking" Brexit by "knowingly inflicting" a damaging no-deal exit on the economy.

The chancellor will tell business leaders that there is "no mandate" for such a no-deal exit and that even with "all the preparation in the world" it would be highly damaging.

"To advocate for no deal is to hijack the result of the referendum and in doing so knowingly to inflict damage on our economy and our living standards," he will say.

Mr Francois said the chancellor was a "Remain fanatic" and he suggested the public increasingly backed leaving with a deal and trading with the EU using World Trade Organization rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48339923

[Zeb]

A "temporary customs union" until the next GE is a pathetic offer. Not just because it's only temporary but the transition period + the option to extend it until 2022 serves the same purpose.

From what I've scanned so far from leaks, I'm not seeing anything new to any of this. Just repackaged concessions from past year or so being put a little more plainly. Of course, the plainer it is spelled out then the more likely it is that May loses more support than she gains. One of the reasons why they've got the WAB in a reading room for even the cabinet is to stop Brexiters self-combusting when it's laid out plainly in front of them that they're getting a lame donkey with a dildo on its head.

[vagabond]

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1130842113040633856

He's lucky it's only milkshake thus far. Fucking fascist.

[No666]

From what I've scanned so far from leaks, I'm not seeing anything new to any of this. Just repackaged concessions from past year or so being put a little more plainly. Of course, the plainer it is spelled out then the more likely it is that May loses more support than she gains. One of the reasons why they've got the WAB in a reading room for even the cabinet is to stop Brexiters self-combusting when it's laid out plainly in front of them that they're getting a lame donkey with a dildo on its head.

I don't know why she continues down this path. It's clear as day that she's going to haemorrhage support because she's come up with a pathetic compromise for an issue on which nobody wants to compromise. The Tory party is probably going to split anyway. A second referendum is the only sane exit route.

[Zeb]

I don't know why she continues down this path. It's clear as day that she's going to haemorrhage support because she's come up with a pathetic compromise for an issue on which nobody wants to compromise. The Tory party is probably going to split anyway. A second referendum is the only sane exit route.

Apparently May was willing to put a second referendum in there but the headbangers in cabinet kicked off. (via Guardian's Rowena Mason). Enough Tories won't vote for a second referendum, and then continue doing that to see it through to happening, but neither will they vote for a general election til May's gone.

[drmick]

May has painted herself into a corner now. I just can't see any other outcome other than her resignation before a Brexit agreement.

[ShakaHislop]

You can feel the desperation in her. That line about another referendum threatening liberal democracy was a cracker.

She can get fucked with that offer of a vote on whether to have another referendum. Nandy and the other Labour appeasers got their bollocks added to the bill without having to jump through the same hoops.

Reject the bill at the 1st opportunity, send May packing and carry on the fight for another ref against the no-deal nutjob that succeeds her.

[Zeb]

Last red line is to end freedom of movement. For leadership of both main parties. Joy.

[ShakaHislop]

Last red line is to end freedom of movement. For leadership of both main parties. Joy.

Being in a full customs union is still a May red line, no?

[Zeb]

Being in a full customs union is still a May red line, no?

No, because she's offering a route to that via vote.

Although offering 'options' is really only a statement of the reality that parliament can amend the WAB however the fuck it pleases.

[Trada]

Will any of these things she says she is offering also have to be passed by the EU?

It feels like some of the things could also need agreement from the EU.

[ShakaHislop]

No, because she's offering a route to that via vote.

Although offering 'options' is really only a statement of the reality that parliament can amend the WAB however the fuck it pleases.

She's not offering a permanent full customs union, which is what Labour want. It's a choice between the maxfac malarkey and the temporary customs union.



https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1130860631177875456

[ShakaHislop]

So, MPs are offered a vote on whether there will be a final say public vote on her deal if we pass her Withdrawal Bill. That's very different to offering a public vote in return for passing her Bill. Struggling to see how the PM has really shifted her position.

https://twitter.com/Bill_Esterson/status/1130864287235432451

1/ The PM is asking MPs to vote for a Bill that takes us out of the EU - in Scotland’s case against our will - out of the single market and possibly out of the Customs Union. And with no actual commitment to put the deal to a second referendum. @theSNP will not do that.

2/ in PM’s own words, “if MPs vote against the Bill, they will be voting to stop Brexit.” That is what @theSNP will do because Scotland did not vote for Brexit.  #StopBrexit

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1130860179233398784

[killer-heels]

I dont get it.

[Zeb]

She's not offering a permanent full customs union, which is what Labour want. It's a choice between the maxfac malarkey and the temporary customs union.

Latter is the route to Labour getting what it wants re. customs union. Permanent is forever, temporary is forever minus a day. Contrast with language on freedom of movement.

[Alan_X]

She's not offering a permanent full customs union, which is what Labour want. It's a choice between the maxfac malarkey and the temporary customs union.



https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1130860631177875456

What a pile of shite.

[Alan_X]

Latter is the route to Labour getting what it wants re. customs union. Permanent is forever, temporary is forever minus a day. Contrast with language on freedom of movement.

It's also a route to the Brexit nutters getting what they want.

[Riquende]

I dont get it.

It's like she honestly believes everyone else in the country is cool with putting the future of the Conservative party before any other consideration. That can't even be applied to everyone the Conservative party.

Ultimately, as has been apparent for a long time now, the whole Brexit farrago crystalises a wider war of ideologies and the only people she's appealing to are the politically-unengaged "bored of this whole thing, it's been too many news cycles do a deal, move on". It's the exact attitude I get from my mother, who proudly tells me she's never voted for anything in her life.

The people who are actually taking sides on this are too far apart to suffer compromise. The Tory grassroots that are now turning out in droves for Frottage have been led by the nose (including by "Brexit means Brexit May") to the conclusion that a #nodeal #letsgoWTO result is the only true pathway to freedom, whilst the liberal remainers are horrified at giving up any of the advantages and benefits of EU membership (I hate how May and others bang on about the end of FoM as a positive. How any politician can get away with standing in front of the public and tell them they're being stripped of a major right as if it's a service should be criminal).

...

Oh and I'm sure at one point she was harping on about just getting it done etc and then 5 minutes later said the bill was a starting point and there would be many years of negotiation for the final relationship... way to get even the 'bored of this' public onside.

[ShakaHislop]

Latter is the route to Labour getting what it wants re. customs union. Permanent is forever, temporary is forever minus a day. Contrast with language on freedom of movement.

That route requires Labour to win a GE. It's a weak offer if all it involves is a temporary customs union + the stating of the obvious that a Labour government can do what it wants.