Author Topic: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS  (Read 68989 times)

Offline saoirse08

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #80 on: January 3, 2016, 12:28:41 pm »
Because Teresa Halbach was scheduled to visit the Avery residence on the day when she went missing so logic would suggest that it would make sense checking out a location she was supposed to have visited.

Sure, when Teresa first goes missing, they have a legitimate reason to be there. No argument there. They should question Avery. Once Steven Avery becomes a suspect and is arrested, they should have stayed well away. And then again four months later when the investigators are desperate for physical evidence to convict Avery, and when the neighbouring county has been handed over to lead the investigation, due to the conflict of interest Manitowoc Sheriff's dept has with Avery...Those officers who had been deposed a few weeks prior to Teresa's disappearance, and who were being sued by Avery, should not be anywhere near the crime scene, not even when under supervision from the neighbouring Sheriff's dept. They shouldn't have really been allowed to 'volunteer' to do so either. 
« Last Edit: January 3, 2016, 12:31:49 pm by saoirse08 »
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Offline saoirse08

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #81 on: January 3, 2016, 12:47:31 pm »
Out of interest do you believe Steven Avery is completely innocent of the murder of Ms Halbach?

I think that's a very difficult question to answer due to the ineptitude/criminality of the investigators, especially those from Manitowoc Sheriff's dept. I believe Brendan Dassey to be innocent, as it looks highly unlikely Teresa's death happened in the manner outlined in his confession. How it was elicited/coerced by various investigators should have made it inadmissible. If Avery did do it, he was probably acting alone. From what I know, there are doubts, many of those reasonable doubts.

Thanks for the Reddit links btw.
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Offline WelshMike

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #82 on: January 3, 2016, 01:44:04 pm »
Finished this last night. 

Spoiler
Utterly depressing. I have no idea how you survive this kind of injustice and treatment. I don't think they were guilty and I definitely don't think there was enough evidence to convict them, and plenty of stuff that made the police department look sketchy. It stinks real bad.

Dean Strang and Jerry Buting are fucking boss, though.
[close]

I also finished this last night and those are exactly my thoughts too.

Spoiler
Especially re: Buting and in particular Strang who are the two pillars of hope in a case otherwise pretty much devoid of it.

A few other notes:

1. I thought the judge's comments at Steven's sentencing were borderline despicable. He effectively said that Steven was in a good place in his life -- about to receive a big payout, taken in by the sympathy of the community -- completely disregarding the fact that he'd gone through 18 years in prison unjustly! Utterly offensive comments from a judge who seemed questionable throughout in his decision-making of what he did and did not allow.

2. The Innocence Project seemed to drop Steven Avery like a hot potato as soon as he was accused, way before any trial. What's the point in such a service if all they do is pounce on wrongly-accused victims after the fact? They're offering nothing.

3. Watching Steven Avery's reaction when he hears the guilty verdicts is one of the most harrowing pieces of television I've ever seen.

4. I know this has already been mentioned, but Teresa Halbach's brother, Mike, comes across as a horrible, spiteful person. It's understandable in a way: all his hopes are pinned on Avery and Dassey being convicted as the police have clearly failed to investigate any other suspects, so it's them or nobody. Just like the cops, he's set on a guilty verdict rather than a just one. However, still doesn't excuse some rather distasteful comments made in the media.

There's plenty more but it's not coming to me right now. Still, a sensational series -- one of the best shows I've ever watched. But a very difficult one at the same time.
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Offline cissepower

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #83 on: January 3, 2016, 05:20:03 pm »
Just finished episode 4. Holy shit  :o  :o
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Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #84 on: January 3, 2016, 05:45:21 pm »
Just finished it.... crazy man.
How wasn't this thrown out several times? How have they still not got retrials etc?

Infuriating and engrossing and amazing TV.

But it's still people's lives... it's awful.

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Offline Phil M

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #85 on: January 3, 2016, 06:29:07 pm »
Just finished episode 4. Holy shit  :o  :o

Best not to come in here mate spoilers galore on this page alone. Best to avoid and return when you've seen the whole series.

It's incredible.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #86 on: January 3, 2016, 06:30:27 pm »
Best not to come in here mate spoilers galore on this page alone. Best to avoid and return when you've seen the whole series.

It's incredible.

As I understand one of the mods said spoilers were now OK?

I can't see the point in having this full of spoiler tags. Lots of interesting discussion and it's all available on Netflix. 

I'll change the thread title tomorrow.

Offline ollyfrom.tv

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #87 on: January 3, 2016, 06:54:26 pm »
Spoiler
Finished this last week. Unreal documentary. Never been so angry after watching a series. Poor Brendan. The 2 men who interviewed him should be put on trial. As for his 1st appointed public defender and his investigator, they should be shot. I notice on the Anonymous twitter feed, if it is the real one, they name the person who killed Teresa. I hope justice is served at some time.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #88 on: January 3, 2016, 06:56:03 pm »
As I understand one of the mods said spoilers were now OK?


They are, that's why he is telling Cissepower to come back when he has finished watching the series

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #89 on: January 3, 2016, 07:01:45 pm »
They are, that's why he is telling Cissepower to come back when he has finished watching the series

Yeah. Just had a stress I'd spoiled it for someone. Though the title does need changing

Offline Phil M

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #90 on: January 3, 2016, 07:13:03 pm »
Spoiler
. I notice on the Anonymous twitter feed, if it is the real one, they name the person who killed Teresa.
[close]

Huh? Link mate?
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #91 on: January 3, 2016, 07:20:20 pm »
Huh? Link mate?

Possibly this @OPAVERYDASSEY

Offline Phil M

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #93 on: January 3, 2016, 07:40:14 pm »
Utterly fascinating viewing experience. Personally, I think Jay did it. Still don't trust that guy.

A bit surprised to read some of the stuff in here, especially about the victim's brother. Think that's in poor taste and those making such comments are viewing this more in the context of a "whodunnit" rather than as the life-altering event it was in a young man's life. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I've never had to experience my sister's murder and I hope none of you have. I don't even know how I would cope with that situation. I think it's perfectly reasonable, however, for him to desperately want some sort of justice and to believe in the narrative espoused by the prosecution that Steven Avery is the guilty party. There's a reason we don't let the families of victims reside over the cases of those accused of harming their loved ones; it's because they are wholly unequipped to provide any semblance of objectivity. Why the hell should this kid be any different? One day his sister is a normal, healthy 25-year-old and the next day she's gone forever. How would you handle such a situation? He's not a trained PR expert. He's not in any way done grieving. Due to the circumstances, however, and the highly publicized nature of the story, the family clearly felt like it should have some sort of public face to represent its feelings and interests and, for whatever reason, he was chosen. Of course he was awkward at times. He's a 20-something kid who's trying to articulate thoughts about a highly-nuanced and unusual case that troubled many experts in the field and one in which he has an extremely personal stake. He's not one of the shady characters in this documentary (there are more than enough of those). He's a grieving victim and I think those calling into questioning his actions are looking a bit too hard for conspiracy in all corners.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #94 on: January 3, 2016, 07:43:03 pm »
Huh? Link mate?

Yeah I've gone looking for this myself. Any link?

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #95 on: January 3, 2016, 07:46:07 pm »
http://pastebin.com/S1DERiFb

Possibly that. If someone saw her car leaving - that's a big thing to leave out.

Makes zero sense.

Avery chasing her down is ridiculous.

Avery somehow killing her and then bundling her into her car and driving off. To drive back...?

Then again it could all be bollocks

Offline Phil M

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #96 on: January 3, 2016, 07:47:21 pm »
Possibly that.

Possibly what mate? I just posted the link from Twitter which has all the trial transcripts etc.
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Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #97 on: January 3, 2016, 07:48:35 pm »
The White House petition is going to reach a point where they have to respond soon.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #98 on: January 3, 2016, 07:54:32 pm »
Utterly fascinating viewing experience. Personally, I think Jay did it. Still don't trust that guy.

Is Jay the ex? He's not featured a great deal.

With regards to the brother. I 've not seen my sister murdered. But I've seen a close friend murdered and I can tell you her family acted VERY differently.

He doesn't have to give interviews. It's not saying he's involved or anything. But he is too quick to believe and tell us all what happened.

It's clear to anyone watching the teenage girl testifying at Brendans trial she's sorry and was clearly talking rubbish.

He dismissed it as she's lying.

Because the Averys are trash, and he isn't. Sorry if that sounds crass. But its what I saw

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series
« Reply #99 on: January 3, 2016, 07:56:37 pm »
Possibly what mate? I just posted the link from Twitter which has all the trial transcripts etc.
Possibly thats the account. Is it definitely from the trial?

Someone testifying they saw her SUV leave is pretty huge not to mention as far as Im concerned

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #100 on: January 3, 2016, 07:56:54 pm »
https://twitter.com/opaverydassey

Is this the Twitter account Anonymous claimed was bullshit, or is it a new one?

This entire thing is mad.
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Offline Vork+The Knights of Good

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series *Please use spoilers*
« Reply #101 on: January 3, 2016, 08:59:11 pm »
Is Jay the ex? He's not featured a great deal.

With regards to the brother. I 've not seen my sister murdered. But I've seen a close friend murdered and I can tell you her family acted VERY differently.

He doesn't have to give interviews. It's not saying he's involved or anything. But he is too quick to believe and tell us all what happened.

It's clear to anyone watching the teenage girl testifying at Brendans trial she's sorry and was clearly talking rubbish.

He dismissed it as she's lying.

Because the Averys are trash, and he isn't. Sorry if that sounds crass. But its what I saw

The Jay line was just a reference to Serial.

Sorry to hear of your friend, my condolences. My point is I don't think there's any one way a person should act after seeing someone close to them murdered. Your friend's family acted one way and this family acted another. Neither is right or wrong; they're just different. No, he doesn't have to give interviews, but I'm sure there was a reason for doing so. It was clearly a routine event which makes me think it was a strategic decision on the part of the family which is fully within their rights. Maybe it had to do with the highly publicized nature of the trial and the family wanting to get their side of things out into the public. Perhaps they feared that Avery's prior overturned conviction would garner sympathy and they wanted to put a public face on their suffering and remind people that the real victim was their murdered daughter/sister and not the accused. Or maybe it was a suggestion made by the prosecution that they thought would help their case and the family agreed to it. I don't know their reasons, but I'm not willing to simply dismiss them as not having any.

As for the young cousin's testimony, she gave a sworn statement to the police and then recanted it on the stand. I understand she's young, nervous, and most likely overwhelmed. You saw her tears as symptomatic of how sorry she felt, but could they not just as easily be attributed to the fact that she was nervous about lying on the stand or, far more cynically, an orchestrated act to protect someone close to her? I think it's entirely reasonable, and one might argue probable even, for someone to suspect she's lying. Did that thought really not cross your mind as you watched her testimony? I know it did mine and it didn't have anything to do with her socioeconomic standing. I think that's a tremendous leap to make on your part knowing next to nothing about the victim's brother. I don't know which time she lied, just that one of her two stories was a lie. Is it not reasonable for one to assume that her recanted tale was the lie and not the original statement? It seems to me that stance is just as reasonable as the inverse. I don't think it makes the brother some snob because he believes one sworn statement and not the other. Personally, I think it's far more likely that he believed what he did because he saw the Avery's as circling the wagons to protect someone he believed to be guilty of participating in his sister's murder. I find it difficult to ascribe any other motivation to his statement aside from that.
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Online red_Mark1980

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #102 on: January 3, 2016, 09:11:47 pm »
There is no right and wrong way granted. But how many interviews is he giving? It's ridiculous.
 
There is NO presumption of innocence for Avery or Gassey. Which is a breakdown in the judicial system.

If you can watch a young teenage girl on the stand, breakdown as she did and come to the conclusion she's lying? Sorry. Didn't see that at all.
To me it's obvious she's upset and embarrassed. The fact of being on the stand and swearing an oath to me is playing a huge part in this.

The social and econimic factors are VERY real. I've been to Wisconsin.

Lovely people and a nice place. But there are huge divisions here.

If I'm alone and wide of the mark, so be it. But if Avery was a white collar guy from Milwaukee I'm sure he'd be viewed differently.

Look at how the judge speaks at his sentencing

Offline Vork+The Knights of Good

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #103 on: January 3, 2016, 09:47:38 pm »
There is no right and wrong way granted. But how many interviews is he giving? It's ridiculous.
 
There is NO presumption of innocence for Avery or Gassey. Which is a breakdown in the judicial system.

If you can watch a young teenage girl on the stand, breakdown as she did and come to the conclusion she's lying? Sorry. Didn't see that at all.
To me it's obvious she's upset and embarrassed. The fact of being on the stand and swearing an oath to me is playing a huge part in this.

The social and econimic factors are VERY real. I've been to Wisconsin.

Lovely people and a nice place. But there are huge divisions here.

If I'm alone and wide of the mark, so be it. But if Avery was a white collar guy from Milwaukee I'm sure he'd be viewed differently.

Look at how the judge speaks at his sentencing

Why is it ridiculous that he gave X number of interviews? Do you even know his reasons for doing so? Without knowing that I find it impossible to form any sort of judgment as to their merit.

I agree with you about the presumption of innocence, but it's not the responsibility of the victim's brother to presume innocence. That's why he's not eligible to be on the jury or preside over the case. He's simply a grieving brother who wants some semblance of justice for his sister who lost her life. I think folks making assumptions about his character beyond that appear rather obtuse or conspiratorial.

I can watch a teenage girl on the stand and think she's lying under oath because we know for a fact that she lied under oath. Whether it was on the stand or in her sworn statement to the detectives I can't say, but one of them was a lie. So how can you be so certain as to which story was definitely the truth?

I'm not doubting the impact of socioeconomic factors on this trial or the public narrative surrounding it, simply your ability to attribute them to this grieving brother. And I've been to Wisconsin too. My college roommate of 4 years was born and raised outside Milwaukee. That doesn't give me some intrinsic ability to assess the brother's reasons for doubting the cousin's testimony. It seems far more likely to me that he simply perceived an attempt by her to protect her cousin to whom she was clearly close. That's not an unreasonable opinion for the victim's family to hold when we know for a fact that one of her two stories was a lie. She claims it's the one that paints her cousin in the far more damning light. Can you really not understand how someone of the opinion that both these men are guilty would see that as, at best, convenient and, at worst, an act of collusion?

It seems to me that the two possibilities we face are that she either 1)completely fabricated this story about her cousin and then under the weight of a sworn oath and public testimony decided to come clean about its falsehood or 2)told the truth originally and afterwards realized that it was highly damaging for her cousin and therefore lied in an attempt to help him. I certainly don't know which it is, but nothing about the latter scenario seems implausible to me. I just don't see how you can ascribe socioeconomic prejudice to the victim's family because it thinks that her second story was the lie and not the first. I think that's a perfectly sensible conclusion to reach and I would imagine that of the many people who streamed the documentary over the past two weeks a decent percentage would have done the same. Are they all biased against the Avery's as well because they're not white collar?
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #104 on: January 3, 2016, 09:54:36 pm »
Documentarys like this always make others look shady & show the better side of the accused they deal with as thats who story they tell. The snippets of her brother, ex boyfriend & room mate were selected to prompt reaction... Even with the authoritys but needed no help to make them look awful both in character & professionally. 

The makers are quite open with how it could be perceived as  biased.

Quote
“There are ways in which people have asked us, ‘Is this series biased? Is it one-sided?’” she said. “What I would say in response to that is that we had very articulate subjects on the defense side. They were passionate. They believed in their client. And they were in a position to advance this theory that their client had been framed, and framed by law enforcement. So yes, we documented that. Yes, it’s in the series. But that was their opinion, and their role as advocates that we simply showed.”

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #105 on: January 3, 2016, 09:57:39 pm »
Jurors should base their findings on what they see and hear in court.

It's precisely the reason the state did not put Brendan on the stand against Avery. They simply didn't know what he'd say.

On the stand she said shed lied. She was sorry and was clearly upset.

If from that you can conjecture she was lying but find it inconceivable that any witness for the prosecution lied... Well you're different from me.

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #106 on: January 3, 2016, 10:19:55 pm »
Jurors should base their findings on what they see and hear in court.

It's precisely the reason the state did not put Brendan on the stand against Avery. They simply didn't know what he'd say.

On the stand she said shed lied. She was sorry and was clearly upset.

If from that you can conjecture she was lying but find it inconceivable that any witness for the prosecution lied... Well you're different from me.

You're right they should base it on what they hear in court, but part of what they heard was her sworn statement to the detectives. That's just as much a part of what they heard in court as her testimony and if you think that thought didn't cross the jurors minds then you're being naive. I never said I believe she lied on the stand. My whole argument was pertaining to your assertion that the brother didn't believe her simply because she's essentially "white trash." I think he has far more compelling reasons for why he'd hold the stance he did and I attempted to articulate those.

I don't know when she lied, just that she did. She swore that was she was telling the truth both times and that clearly is not possible. Which is really true? I have no idea. It's just very easy for me to see why the brother would believe she lied on the stand and it has naught to do with socioeconomics. As I said, the idea that she was lying on the stand definitely occurred to me as I was watching and I hold no biases against her or those of her socioeconomic standing. I'd be pretty surprised if that thought didn't occur to most who saw it. I'm not saying I think she did, but it's without a doubt possible. After all, it was awfully convenient for her cousin's defense that she simply made it all up. Doesn't make it untrue, but I find it hard to believe that's not a consideration for most. It certainly would be for the victim's family and quite understandably so IMO.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #107 on: January 3, 2016, 10:29:42 pm »
The fact that she basically says she made it all up means its not worth much.

Whether she lied in the statement or lied on the stand. She lied. Therefore it's not worth anything?

The brother wades in and says she's lied on the stand to protect the family? Based on what?

I've not seen her initial statement (i liked how he stated that Brendan Gasseys statement was compelling, then admitted he'd not seen it).

Both cases stink from top to bottom. It's not saying Avery and Gassey are 100% innocent. But I sure as hell can't say they are both guilty (if you believe Gassey is guilty, you presumably believe his story, which appears at best to be absolutely bollocks)

IF IT WAS MY SISTER MURDERED ID BE VERY CONCERNED AT THE WAY IT WAS HANDLED.

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #108 on: January 3, 2016, 10:47:05 pm »
Both cases stink from top to bottom. It's not saying Avery and Gassey are 100% innocent. But I sure as hell can't say they are both guilty (if you believe Gassey is guilty, you presumably believe his story, which appears at best to be absolutely bollocks)

Yeah Brendens confession just dont match the timeline given to him by his activities & phonecalls throughout the evening in question. If Avery did do it seems Brenden had alot less involvement than the police forced out during interrogation. The phone call with his mum were heartbreaking at points & especially the ones on reddit surrounding what Avery did to him previously.

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #109 on: January 3, 2016, 10:56:08 pm »
The fact that she basically says she made it all up means its not worth much.

Whether she lied in the statement or lied on the stand. She lied. Therefore it's not worth anything?

The brother wades in and says she's lied on the stand to protect the family? Based on what?

I've not seen her initial statement (i liked how he stated that Brendan Gasseys statement was compelling, then admitted he'd not seen it).

Both cases stink from top to bottom. It's not saying Avery and Gassey are 100% innocent. But I sure as hell can't say they are both guilty (if you believe Gassey is guilty, you presumably believe his story, which appears at best to be absolutely bollocks)

IF IT WAS MY SISTER MURDERED ID BE VERY CONCERNED AT THE WAY IT WAS HANDLED.

I presume he's said that based on the fact it makes sense. Her sworn statement was bad for her cousin. I'm not a legal expert, but I have to imagine that her subsequent claim that she made it all up is a positive development for the defense. Connect the dots. All I'm saying is that it's understandable from his perspective. It's not my stance (I'm wholly undecided on the matter), but I think those making characterizations towards the brother are being extremely harsh and, in some sense, just looking for more conspiracies.

I actually agree with most everything you say about the case, big picture. Both cases were rotten to the core and I really struggle to see how either jury reached a verdict of guilty (with the understanding that we do not have access to all 6/2 weeks worth of the trials). The actions of the cops were, at best, highly questionable and I'm not quite sure how the involvement of the Manitowoc police doesn't make much of the evidence inadmissible. What the hell is the point of a conflict of interest if it doesn't actually result in any delineation between those investigating the case and those declared to have had a CoI? It seems to me that the legal system in this case was wholly lacking in common sense. Really upsetting. Perhaps even scarier to me is the fact that Brendan's postconviction hearings bore no fruit. If his is not a case of disloyal representation then I can't imagine we'll ever see one.
Justice For The 96

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #110 on: January 3, 2016, 10:56:39 pm »
The phone call with his mum were heartbreaking at points & especially the ones on reddit surrounding what Avery did to him previously.


What did Avery do to him? Do you have a link?
Cheers.
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively - Bob Marley

Offline HighSix

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #111 on: January 3, 2016, 11:05:24 pm »

What did Avery do to him? Do you have a link?
Cheers.

Edit. Page 4 on this DropBox

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lr7iif6ca3xp5sa/Transcript%20-%20May%2013%2C%202006%20(Dassey%20to%20Mother).pdf?dl=0

No idea what you are allowed to post on here compared to Reddit.
« Last Edit: January 3, 2016, 11:08:13 pm by HighSix »

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #112 on: January 3, 2016, 11:19:53 pm »
Edit. Page 4 on this DropBox

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lr7iif6ca3xp5sa/Transcript%20-%20May%2013%2C%202006%20(Dassey%20to%20Mother).pdf?dl=0

No idea what you are allowed to post on here compared to Reddit.


It won't open as a PDF and I don't have a dropbox.
Can you just briefly outline or give examples...or is there a link to reddit et al. With the transcript?

Cheers
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively - Bob Marley

Offline HighSix

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #113 on: January 3, 2016, 11:31:24 pm »

It won't open as a PDF and I don't have a dropbox.
Can you just briefly outline or give examples...or is there a link to reddit et al. With the transcript?

Cheers

 :thumbup

Quote
Mother (M) Brendan (B)
M. Did he make you do this?
B. Ya.
M. Then why didn't you tell him that.
B. Tell him what
M. That Steven made you do it. You know he made you do a lot of things.
B. Ya, I told them that. I even told them about Steven touching me and that.
M. What do you mean touching you?
B. He would grab me somewhere where I was uncomfortable.
M. Brendan I am your mother.
B. Ya.
M. Why didn't you come to me? Why didn't you tell me? Was this all before this happened?
B. What do you mean?
M. All before this happened, did he touch you before all this stuff happened to you.
B. Ya.
M. Why didn't you come to me, because then he would have been gone then and this wouldn't have happened.
B. Ya ..
M. Yes, and you would still be here with me.
B. Yes, Well you know I did it.
M. Huh
B. You know he always touched us and that.
M. I didn't think there. He used to horse around with you guys.
B. Ya, but you remember he would always do stuff to Brian and that.
M. What do you mean.
B. Well he would like fake pumping him
M. Goofing around
B. Ya but, like that one time when he was going with what's her name... Jessicas sister.
M. Teresa?
B. Ya. That one day when she was over, Steven and Blaine and Brian and I was downstairs and Steven was touching her and that.
 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lr7iif6ca3xp5sa/Transcript%20-%20May%2013%2C%202006%20(Dassey%20to%20Mother).pdf?dl=0
Page 4
Via Reddit.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #114 on: January 3, 2016, 11:51:03 pm »
30 minute interview with Strang, answering questions about the documentary / trial.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/S9h5C901lGE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/S9h5C901lGE</a>

« Last Edit: January 4, 2016, 06:10:12 am by Kashinoda »
:D

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #115 on: January 4, 2016, 04:48:46 am »
Very strange Colburn running a check on the missing car 2 days before it was found I thought. When he was asked about it on the stand he had no explanation whatsoever.
« Last Edit: January 4, 2016, 09:25:07 am by Carlito Roberto »

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #116 on: January 4, 2016, 09:47:52 am »
As for the young cousin's testimony, she gave a sworn statement to the police and then recanted it on the stand. I understand she's young, nervous, and most likely overwhelmed. You saw her tears as symptomatic of how sorry she felt, but could they not just as easily be attributed to the fact that she was nervous about lying on the stand or, far more cynically, an orchestrated act to protect someone close to her? I think it's entirely reasonable, and one might argue probable even, for someone to suspect she's lying. Did that thought really not cross your mind as you watched her testimony? I know it did mine and it didn't have anything to do with her socioeconomic standing. I think that's a tremendous leap to make on your part knowing next to nothing about the victim's brother. I don't know which time she lied, just that one of her two stories was a lie. Is it not reasonable for one to assume that her recanted tale was the lie and not the original statement? It seems to me that stance is just as reasonable as the inverse. I don't think it makes the brother some snob because he believes one sworn statement and not the other. Personally, I think it's far more likely that he believed what he did because he saw the Avery's as circling the wagons to protect someone he believed to be guilty of participating in his sister's murder. I find it difficult to ascribe any other motivation to his statement aside from that.

It's fairly obvious which time she was lying - the original testimony was based on the DA's lurid retelling of Brendan's obviously fabricated nonsense account of the murder with all the rape, mutilation, stabbing etc that obviously never happened.

Brendan's interrogation was a shameful act by two detectives who had complete disregard for a vulnerable young man.

Her original testimony couldn't be true because the things she described never happened.

*edit - and if you can't see the 'good people' vs 'white trash' undercurrent that pervades the whole case from Steven Avery's early run-ins with the law you really need to open your eyes.
« Last Edit: January 4, 2016, 09:51:45 am by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #117 on: January 4, 2016, 09:51:45 am »
:thumbup

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lr7iif6ca3xp5sa/Transcript%20-%20May%2013%2C%202006%20(Dassey%20to%20Mother).pdf?dl=0
Page 4
Via Reddit.


Nice one, thanks very much.
The documentary is definitely presenting one side and making one side look a certain way.
It is biased for sure but that does not change the fact that there was definitely reasonable doubt and both cases could and probably should have been thrown out.
It is not an honest and open look at the case in general, it's merely making points about the court system, investagation failings and wrongdoing by officers and prejudices and other failings of judicial and legal systems and also class.

It was a fascinating docu-series.
« Last Edit: January 4, 2016, 09:57:15 am by johnsmithlfc »
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively - Bob Marley

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #118 on: January 4, 2016, 10:35:33 am »
30 minute interview with Strang, answering questions about the documentary / trial.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/S9h5C901lGE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/S9h5C901lGE</a>



Thanks for posting that - very interesting.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline johnsmithlfc

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« Last Edit: January 4, 2016, 01:32:28 pm by johnsmithlfc »
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively - Bob Marley