Topic: Welcome to Liverpool Thiago Alcantara

[So… Howard Philips]

Can't you fuckers just not wish him good luck and say goodbyes intead of arguinig over nothing?

Why waste the opportunity to over analyse a bunch of statistics with spurious accuracy?

[paulrazor]

And he says it to Harry Kewell, who has a smirk on his face like "line up, chap".

I am sorry Fabio Aurelio, please finish your cider

[Fromola]

Mac was being overused as he was being asked to "do a job" as a 6. We are well stacked in the 8s, Mac's natural position, and Mac would have been fine had we brought in a quality 6 so as not have him come back there. As phenomenal as Thiago is that's not his role, he's the guy who plays off the 6. The 6 is a taxing role physically, especially in a Klopp side which presses up so they have to cover the counters, which makes it all the more perplexing Jurgen neglected the position.

The biggest killer has been the drop off of Fabinho. When that happened the midfield stopped functioning, and without defensive protection in there the defence was more exposed. The 22-23 season was Ali's busiest with us by a country mile, while Trent, who was still the same Trent just he was no longer getting any cover from midfield, was getting done constantly. Thiago did his best, but a 6 he ain't, it requires an athlete who can run all day and understand the role.

It was Henderson's legs going at the same time. They were always our key midfielders under Jurgen. Fabinho kept the solidity, Henderson provided the energy and covered the ground (he could also do a good job at 6 before his own legs went). Wijnaldum as well had a key function but it needed at least one them two in there to balance it.

[KC7]

I didn't say it was his 'fault', just that we got one good season out of four, which is indisputable really. But in general, Thiago never had legs. He needed to be next to someone to do his running (and preferably his defending) for him even in Germany.

That's why he looked so bad next to Gini in his first season and generally looked best when next to Fabinho and one of Henderson or Milner, or in the more measured pace of European ties. When those players weren't able to cover for his lack of running and tendency to settle around the centre circle (ie. in his first and third season), our midfield were sitting ducks. Because he couldn't do the work of one person at Premier League pace, let alone two or three. It's also why I don't think he would have got back into the team this year regardless.

People will argue that point but just look at last season: Thiago played in pretty much all our worst performances and barely any of our best. For all the stick they've taken, our midfield seemed to function fine with Henderson and Fabinho in the Man United, Leeds and Bournemouth thumpings, the away win at high-flying Newcastle or the 2-2 with top-of-the-table Arsenal - all games Thiago wasn't playing. These are facts.
But we aren't predicting, we're looking back. One team won a league title and a Champions League and one team didn't. They don't give out trophies for xG!

But saying "one good season" without context is unfair (also don't agree he only had one good season).

As I suggested before, I think he was sold a pup. If any player could make a claim to the Advertising Standards Authority that what he got was not what was advertised its him. When he joined in summer '20 we had been competently run (primarily so anyway). The first window while a Liverpool player, team somehow top of the league despite the CB situation, players openly talking about reinforcements coming in, and the manager is wheeled out in early January to tell a stunned press room that signing a CB was unlikely to effectively end our season while top.

If you are Thiago, one of the best midfielders on the planet, you have got to be disillusioned as to what set up you have joined. We know for a fact Robbo was disillusioned as he had openly spoken in late December about help coming in. The results which followed this stance and the impact on the players speak for themselves:

4 January 202117   Southampton   1–0   Liverpool   Southampton
17 January 202118   Liverpool   0–0   Manchester United   Liverpool
21 January 202119   Liverpool   0–1   Burnley   Liverpool
28 January 202120   Tottenham Hotspur   1–3   Liverpool   Tottenham, London
31 January 202121   West Ham United   1–3   Liverpool   Stratford, London
3 February 202122   Liverpool   0–1   Brighton & Hove Albion   Liverpool
7 February 202123   Liverpool   1–4   Manchester City   Liverpool
13 February 202124   Leicester City   3–1   Liverpool   Leicester
20 February 202125   Liverpool   0–2   Everton   Liverpool
28 February 202126   Sheffield United   0–2   Liverpool   Sheffield
4 March 202127   Liverpool   0–1   Chelsea   Liverpool
7 March 202128   Liverpool   0–1   Fulham   Liverpool
15 March 202129   Wolverhampton Wanderers   0–1   Liverpool   Wolverhampton
3 April 202130   Arsenal   0–3   Liverpool   Holloway, London
10 April 202131   Liverpool   2–1   Aston Villa   Liverpool
19 April 202132   Leeds United   1–1   Liverpool   Leeds
24 April 202133   Liverpool   1–1   Newcastle United   Liverpool
8 May 202135   Liverpool   2–0   Southampton   Liverpool
13 May 202134   Manchester United   2–4   Liverpool   Manchester
16 May 202136   West Bromwich Albion   1–2   Liverpool   West Bromwich
19 May 202137   Burnley   0–3   Liverpool   Burnley
23 May 202138   Liverpool   2–0   Crystal Palace   

There is no other club who would have done what we did. Its unthinkable. Had we had no senior goalkeepers we would have been mandated by the authorities to act. We had one injury prone senior CB left, one who hadn't played in the last games of the December so we were already using midfielders in the defence, and we have the manager come out and tell everyone that signing a defender was unlikely with half a season left.

It was self sabotage, not suggesting it was deliberate as I'm not that cynical, but self sabotage nonetheless. I cannot think of anything comparable in sport. All the other incidents were shady (Bruce Seldon seemingly taking a dive against Mike Tyson comes to mind), but nothing where results were affected by wilful incompetence.

So that's Thiago's first season ruined. And he was really good in that run in helping us to scrape 3rd. The next two seasons, when he played he was great. The Porto goal a stand out moment. We asked him to carry the midfield when he played in that 3rd season and he inevitably broke down.

We can't just judge Thiago (or any player) in isolation as the set up he joined was badly run. He had no proper CB to play infront of in his first season, and in his third he had no midfielders partners who could run. His second season, the only one in which we resembled the team he joined, we were still a bit thin in midfield with Gini having left, so we went to Paris with the midfield goosed.


He's a player with wonderful technique, very injury prone being made of glass, but we did him no favours with the set up in his time with the club.

[LFCEmpire]

It is criminal the injuries he has had to suffer. What a player he is/was. I am going to be sad to see him go because he is a model professional and a good lad.

[KC7]

It was Henderson's legs going at the same time. They were always our key midfielders under Jurgen. Fabinho kept the solidity, Henderson provided the energy and covered the ground (he could also do a good job at 6 before his own legs went). Wijnaldum as well had a key function but it needed at least one them two in there to balance it.

His legs were already going. His closing down numbers had been on the decline.

Its him that is the prime reason we had that summer '22 window when we did with everyone awake clamouring for midfield reinforcements.

Remember at the time seeing him taking on the Milner role of coming on late.

What we never saw coming was Fabinho. Never seen a collapse like it. Just completely goosed overnight. That was a draining season though. All that protection he gave, gone.

The difference in the side when Jones came in around February was stark. An actual player with legs.

The manager tried to allay the fears regarding midfield in mid August when he reeled off that list of players, including Ox, Keita, 36 yo Milner, Carvalho, Hendo..might even have thrown Elliot in amongst them. That we got completely rinsed by teams who overran us week in week out shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

[RainbowFlick]

would love to know whether internally the club/thiago himself have considered pushing for coaching badges

i'm really hopeful that our journey with thiago hasn't ended, just with him in the dugout. despite the injuries he's a real winner, and the type of character you hold onto every word from.

would've loved for us to have tried a Mac-Thiago plus a 6. would've oozed sexy.

[Fromola]

His legs were already going. His closing down numbers had been on the decline.

Its him that is the prime reason we had that summer '22 window when we did with everyone awake clamouring for midfield reinforcements.

Remember at the time seeing him taking on the Milner role of coming on late.

What we never saw coming was Fabinho. Never seen a collapse like it. Just completely goosed overnight. That was a draining season though. All that protection he gave, gone.

The difference in the side when Jones came in around February was stark. An actual player with legs.

The manager tried to allay the fears regarding midfield in mid August when he reeled off that list of players, including Ox, Keita, 36 yo Milner, Carvalho, Hendo..might even have thrown Elliot in amongst them. That we got completely rinsed by teams who overran us week in week out shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

A lot of us knew we were throwing the season away by not signing a midfielder, unless we got lucky with injuries and Fabinho hadn't dropped off. Like with Caicedo last year we clearly knew it was a priority as we'd been despearte to get Tchouameni (and were hanging our hats on Bellingham).

Fans widely criticised and mocked for stating the obvious.

[Keith Lard]

Thiago signing was when the transfer strategy started moving away from the winning formula.

We needed a younger version of Gini/Thiago that summer (and the next two after that). Someone like Mac Allister when we finally addressed it.

Reading through the last couple pages. First sentence of this comment hit home.

It’s obviously a hindsight observation as we all loved the Thiago signing at the time.

[markedasred]

Sometimes seeing his economic style of play, those pinpoint passes, always to the right player, made me purr like a cat.

[Eeyore]

Thiago signing was when the transfer strategy started moving away from the winning formula.

We needed a younger version of Gini/Thiago that summer (and the next two after that). Someone like Mac Allister when we finally addressed it.

It needed to move away from the previous strategy. The strategy when playing catch up and when you reach the top are completely different. To get to the top it is fine to wheel and deal. It is pretty easy to improve on what you already have.

When you get to the top though things need to change. You cannot have a buy-to-sell policy in which you take a temporary step backwards whilst you wait for players fulfil their potential. Klopp called it himself.

“How we did it so far brought us to where we are, fine, but fresh money is no mistake, let me say it like this,” Klopp added. “Nothing gets cheaper. There is the inflation rate for all of us and in football as well. Sometimes you have to spend.

“We are really happy, really happy, to give all our young kids a chance. I am so positive about the impact they will have in the future whenever that starts. Like Harvey [Elliott] now, Stefan [Bajcetic], Calvin [Ramsay], Ben Doak, Bobby Clark – really interesting. They all are. But from time to time you have to throw in proven quality. And in an ideal world, they are young as well and not 35.


That was the issue with the Thiago signing. Firstly we ended up having to sell Lovren and go down to 3 centre backs to bring him in and secondly, the only way we could bring in proven quality was to take a punt on an aging player with a patchy injury record. Given how successful we had been and how much money Klopp had generated from European runs it was completely unacceptable.

We were the best team in the World and we were penny-pinching. The lack of investment during that period has seen us go backwards. We should have been looking to kick on not consolidate.

[Jookie]

I do like the way a global pandemic, the league playing behind closed doors and the general uncertainty about everything in normal life, never mind future football finances, has been erased from the memory.

Wish I could have the certainty and selectivity of information in my arguments that some have on here. The absolute belief in the narrative they have built, whilst excluding other factors or potential pathways is quietly impressive but also scary. It’s always also re-assuring that these people with 100% conviction in their opinion are also convinced if the path they thought was obvious and correct, probably with some hindsight, was taken the everything would have worked out perfectly.

Given I expect no one on here has any or limited experience of playing, managing or running a football club it’s amazing the level of confidence that some people have that their opinion is correct and needs to be repeated ad nuaseam in every thread.

[Eeyore]

I do like the way a global pandemic, the league playing behind closed doors and the general uncertainty about everything in normal life, never mind future football finances, has been erased from the memory.

Wish I could have the certainty and selectivity of information in my arguments that some have on here. The absolute belief in the narrative they have built, whilst excluding other factors or potential pathways is quietly impressive but also scary. It’s always also re-assuring that these people with 100% conviction in their opinion are also convinced if the path they thought was obvious and correct, probably with some hindsight, was taken the everything would have worked out perfectly.

Given I expect no one on here has any or limited experience of playing, managing or running a football club it’s amazing the level of confidence that some people have that their opinion is correct and needs to be repeated ad nuaseam in every thread.

We won the CL in 2019. In May 2019 we posted profits of Ł41.9m. The year before was a World record profit of Ł125.1m.

That summer we spent zero, zilch, zip, nada, nothing. We did not sign a single senior player that summer. Instead, we brought in Ł45m from player sales. We stopped spending before COVID-19 was even heard of. It wasn't COVID-19 or playing behind closed doors that curtailed our spending.

[Jookie]

We won the CL in 2019.

We won the league in 2019/20, breaking a 30 year wait for a league title and in the process putting together record breaking results.

It’s the only team to break City’s long standing dominance on the league.

But not buying someone that summer was the wrong decision?

Maybe  we buy in summer 2019 and win the CL also. Maybe we win the league for multiple seasons. Alternatively we buy some new players and it breaks the continuity of the squad and we don’t break City’s spirit by winning 26 out of 27.

No one knows what might have happened. So why are you and others so confident that spending in 2019 would have led to better results?

I don’t have a clue what would have happened. I do know it was an amazing league title that was followed by a global pandemic. I suspect the reason not to buy I 2019 was a footballing one but again who really knows? Not me or you anyway.

[Dench57]

We won the league in 2019/20, breaking a 30 year wait for a league title and in the process putting together record breaking results.

It’s the only team to break City’s long standing dominance on the league.

But not buying someone that summer was the wrong decision?

Maybe  we buy in summer 2019 and win the CL also. Maybe we win the league for multiple seasons. Alternatively we buy some new players and it breaks the continuity of the squad and we don’t break City’s spirit by winning 26 out of 27.

No one knows what might have happened. So why are you and others so confident that spending in 2019 would have led to better results?

I don’t have a clue what would have happened. I do know it was an amazing league title that was followed by a global pandemic. I suspect the reason not to buy I 2019 was a footballing one but again who really knows? Not me or you anyway.

Given how good our recruitment was at that time do you really think it's likely that bringing in reinforcements would've resulted in less points?

[harleydanger]

Thiago could have the worst stats in the league, i'd still pay to watch him turn a player with a hip wiggle and toe flick then hit a 60 yard outside of the foot volley to a winger.

[wemmick]

Wish him the best. That Porto goal was magnificent. Might be the most technically flawless strike of a ball I've ever seen.

[Fromola]

We won the league in 2019/20, breaking a 30 year wait for a league title and in the process putting together record breaking results.

It’s the only team to break City’s long standing dominance on the league.

But not buying someone that summer was the wrong decision?

Maybe  we buy in summer 2019 and win the CL also. Maybe we win the league for multiple seasons. Alternatively we buy some new players and it breaks the continuity of the squad and we don’t break City’s spirit by winning 26 out of 27.

No one knows what might have happened. So why are you and others so confident that spending in 2019 would have led to better results?

I don’t have a clue what would have happened. I do know it was an amazing league title that was followed by a global pandemic. I suspect the reason not to buy I 2019 was a footballing one but again who really knows? Not me or you anyway.

The team was set but we needed to add to the depth a bit.  Sturridge, Clyne and Moreno left - all on big wages but we didn't replace them in the squad. We should have at least signed a back up LB and another forward. The fact we didn't even do that meant that that was prioritised in 2020 when we needed a CB and that got left.

We were fortunate that the full backs and the front 3 stayed fit because we didn't have suitable back ups for them, short of chucking Milner at full back (ok for a game or two).

We went for it big in 2018 (helped by the Coutinho money) and rested on our laurels after that which ultimately led to last season's shitshow (and contributed to 20/21 with the defensive crisis). You can never stand still in football.

[Eeyore]

We won the league in 2019/20, breaking a 30 year wait for a league title and in the process putting together record breaking results.

It’s the only team to break City’s long standing dominance on the league.

But not buying someone that summer was the wrong decision?

Maybe  we buy in summer 2019 and win the CL also. Maybe we win the league for multiple seasons. Alternatively we buy some new players and it breaks the continuity of the squad and we don’t break City’s spirit by winning 26 out of 27.

No one knows what might have happened. So why are you and others so confident that spending in 2019 would have led to better results?

I don’t have a clue what would have happened. I do know it was an amazing league title that was followed by a global pandemic. I suspect the reason not to buy I 2019 was a footballing one but again who really knows? Not me or you anyway.

If you have a squad of twenty players. Then inevitably they all age a year every year. That means you need to reduce the aggregate age of the squad by twenty years just to stand still in terms of the average age of the squad. Take a year off from recruitment and that then becomes 40 years in aggregate.

If you want to move forward and have a sustained period of success then you quite simply have to continually refresh the squad. Bring in young hungry players who add energy desire and above all bring down the average age of the group. Ideally you do that by promoting from within.

That wasn't possible though. After the emergence of Trent there wasn't a lot coming through. So much so that the Academy bought in the likes of Nat Phillips,  SVDG, Hoever.

I am a massive fan of Thiago but it was a crazy decision to allow Gini to run down his deal and sell Lovren to basically fund the deal and leave ourselves with only VVD,  Matip and Gomez as centre backs. As Klopp said himself about investment at times you have to bring in proven quality and those players should be of the right age.

Thiago replacing Gini just meant we were standing still in terms of the age of the squad. That is just inviting problems down the line as we found out to our cost. A failure to have continual refreshment of the squad leads to the need for a complete rebuild.

Look what happened when we brought in investment. It went on proven quality at the right age. We brought in Macca and Szobozslai two players who made an immediate impact and crucially brought down the average age of the squad. That is what we should be doing every season. You simply cannot have a season off and not expect it to catch up with you further down the line.

[Jookie]

Given how good our recruitment was at that time do you really think it's likely that bringing in reinforcements would've resulted in less points?

Who knows?

Lots of people were calling for another forward or midfielder.

Does another forward upset the balance of Firmino, Mane and Salah? Do you feel obliged to play tge new forward at times to integrate them, even if it’s at the detriment of the team?

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have bought. With hindsight you can make an argument either way. The argument for buying ends up with hypotheticals and guesses about how things may have turned out differently. Not investing significantly in summer 2019 was the reality and we know it was followed by one of the clubs greatest ever league campaigns and ended the 30 year wait for a league title. That’s mainly why I can’t get on board with the retrospective claims that it was the wrong decision by Klopp, Edward’s and/or the owners.


I think we were desperately unlucky with tge events that unfolded afterwards. Covid and the injury hit campaign of 2020/21 probably cost us a title. They feel like pretty unique events and not things that are easily mitigated. Others disagree. Which is fine but I’m not sure if we’d followed a slightly different path like otters suggested then things would have turned out dramatically different. Again that’s just my guess.

[Mr Dilkington]

This is a mad shout.

Thiago has always been a very good player. He was for us when fit. He’s never been consistently World Class in my opinion. For me World class is someone who could challenge to be in best World XI for a period of time. So best 1 or 2 players in your position.

Putting that aside I think you are mixing up best versus my personal favourite with the 21/22 team. 21/22 was an excellent side but it was the last gasps of elite performance by many of that team. Firmino, Mane, Henderson, Fabinho, Matip and Thiago himself have never got close to that level since. It was those players straining the last ounce out that they had as top level players and it showed in the end.

19/20 Liverpool was miles better. Better defensively as a team, better shape and physicality in midfield, and a forward line that whilst not putting up crazy number was an elite combo of 3 players. Arguably the clubs greatest triumvirate of attacking players. Best I’ve seen anyway.

The 19/20’team is the only team to defeat City over the course of a season in 5 seasons. Likely 6. They didn’t just beat them. They broke City’s will before Xmas that season. Through sheer force of will and skill to put together an unprecedented start to a season.

But going back to 22/23 and Thiago being the heart beat of that team. Didn’t play a minute in the League Cup run. Was key in FA Cup SF and final and CL run. In league he had a good season but only played 1537 minutes. It’s the equivalent of 17 x 90 minutes. He started only 12 PL games and didn’t play in 14 all together.

How’s that the beating heart of the 21/22 team?

I say none of this to criticise Thiago. It’s mainly because I’m amazed someone holds this opinion about the 21/22 team and Thiago’s role in it.

The 19/20 team was very good and had an unbelievable mentality, however I think it was also a lucky team. There were so many games we won by 1 goal or late on - play it out again and we likely draw or lose some of those games. In terms of performance level I don't think that 19/20 was as dominant as the 18/19 team or the 21/22 team.

The lack of minutes is a fair comment, though as I said to Chris, I think in the second half of the season when we put that run together he played the vast majority of games and was for my money our best and most consistent player. That's what I meant by beating heart of the 21/22 team. He helped elevate us to a team that was a Courtois freak show and a Villa collapse away from a Quadruple.

[Mr Dilkington]

What about, you know, actual goals, wins, losses, that kind of legacy fan stuff?

Killer was the one who brought up underlying numbers! I just posted them to add some context to the debate.

[Eeyore]

The 19/20 team was very good and had an unbelievable mentality, however I think it was also a lucky team. There were so many games we won by 1 goal or late on - play it out again and we likely draw or lose some of those games. In terms of performance level I don't think that 19/20 was as dominant as the 18/19 team or the 21/22 team.

The lack of minutes is a fair comment, though as I said to Chris, I think in the second half of the season when we put that run together he played the vast majority of games and was for my money our best and most consistent player. That's what I meant by beating heart of the 21/22 team. He helped elevate us to a team that was a Courtois freak show and a Villa collapse away from a Quadruple.

With a fully fit and firing Thiago we may well have beaten Madrid.




However, Lijnders has revealed that Thiago had an adverse reaction to his final injection before the game, which left considerable doubt over whether he would start or Naby Keita would take his place.

'Thiago didn’t do the warm-up as he couldn’t feel his toes after his latest injection,' Lijnders explained in his new book 'Intensity'. 

'He told me just before going out and he said, "make sure Naby is ready". I will tell you one thing: these are the things a coach doesn’t want to hear just before a final. The problem was that if he would not start he couldn’t be on the bench.

'We were in doubt and only after the fast-feet work we decided to trust him that he felt he could play; he was experienced enough to make this call. Naby was insane dealing with this whole situation, I have to say – credit to him.'

[bird_lfc]

A fantastic little player who’s later years were ruined by injury

Interested to see where he goes next. Best of luck to him.

[Sheer Magnetism]

As I suggested before, I think he was sold a pup. If any player could make a claim to the Advertising Standards Authority that what he got was not what was advertised its him. When he joined in summer '20 we had been competently run (primarily so anyway). The first window while a Liverpool player, team somehow top of the league despite the CB situation, players openly talking about reinforcements coming in, and the manager is wheeled out in early January to tell a stunned press room that signing a CB was unlikely to effectively end our season while top.

If you are Thiago, one of the best midfielders on the planet, you have got to be disillusioned as to what set up you have joined. We know for a fact Robbo was disillusioned as he had openly spoken in late December about help coming in. The results which followed this stance and the impact on the players speak for themselves...

Look, in one sense you're preaching to the converted. I was one of the ones calling for an extra centre back at the start of the season after Lovren left, never mind January. I believed then (and still do) that the failure to pull the trigger on Guimarăes, who we'd been heavily linked with, was ultimately what cost us the CL and the league. Extrapolate that to now and maybe we have Bellingham, Guimarăes and Mac as our current three, but I digress.

Regardless of all that however, Thiago wasn't 'sold a pup'. He was one of our highest paid players and was rightfully expected to be a difference maker at one of the biggest and most storied clubs in the world. It was never the club's responsibility to get him more trophies, and given what he was paid and how little he played, he can hardly have any grounds to feel aggrieved.

[markmywords]

Who knows?

Lots of people were calling for another forward or midfielder.

Does another forward upset the balance of Firmino, Mane and Salah? Do you feel obliged to play tge new forward at times to integrate them, even if it’s at the detriment of the team?

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have bought. With hindsight you can make an argument either way. The argument for buying ends up with hypotheticals and guesses about how things may have turned out differently. Not investing significantly in summer 2019 was the reality and we know it was followed by one of the clubs greatest ever league campaigns and ended the 30 year wait for a league title. That’s mainly why I can’t get on board with the retrospective claims that it was the wrong decision by Klopp, Edward’s and/or the owners.


I think we were desperately unlucky with tge events that unfolded afterwards. Covid and the injury hit campaign of 2020/21 probably cost us a title. They feel like pretty unique events and not things that are easily mitigated. Others disagree. Which is fine but I’m not sure if we’d followed a slightly different path like otters suggested then things would have turned out dramatically different. Again that’s just my guess.

There are many different things we could and perhaps should have done, including;

(when I say significant purchase I'm not talking about penny pinching, bargain hunter levels that we actually did)

 Buying a top quality young player at 21 or so and letting them stay with their existing club during 19/20 season
Buying someone significant during the jan 2020, a month during which we were 19 points clear at various stages

The course of action we actually took, clearly wasn't the best option.  Summer 2019 was the 1 time in near 30 yrs, we could buy at the top table and make 1 big top, shelf purchase from that summer onwards and we squandered it, with the consequence of that being we now have to spread our resources across 3/4 purchases each summer and take hopeful punts

[KC7]

Look, in one sense you're preaching to the converted. I was one of the ones calling for an extra centre back at the start of the season after Lovren left, never mind January. I believed then (and still do) that the failure to pull the trigger on Guimarăes, who we'd been heavily linked with, was ultimately what cost us the CL and the league. Extrapolate that to now and maybe we have Bellingham, Guimarăes and Mac as our current three, but I digress.

Regardless of all that however, Thiago wasn't 'sold a pup'. He was one of our highest paid players and was rightfully expected to be a difference maker at one of the biggest and most storied clubs in the world. It was never the club's responsibility to get him more trophies, and given what he was paid and how little he played, he can hardly have any grounds to feel aggrieved.

He was joining probably the best club team in the world. We sure didn't act like it while he was here, or anywhere remotely close to it.

I've harped on enough about those two transfer windows from hell (Jan 21, Summer 22), but the final thing I'll say on this is what is also frustrating is Jurgen's close to impeccable record on transfers. Had he been iffy, with a few hit and misses, then you could possibly justify some circumspection in regard to making signings. But that wasn't the case. He has had one miss, Keita, as we didn't account for his timid character.

One miss in his transfer activity. And we reward him by doing zip, while top of the league with no fit senior CB.

Around 15 December, with Virgil and Joe out for the season, Matip carrying an injury that in Jan would see him also ruled out for the season, and having already let Lovren go and not brought in a 4th CB, the alarm bells should have been ringing like they would have on every other club on the Earth and the focus zoomed in on CBs to bring in when the window opened on 1 January. I remember going through names in my head at the time, Gary Cahill who was at Palace was one; solid performer, league title winner, and was still quality; but the club is a professional organisation (supposed to be anyway) so they would have had access to every name. What then didn't happen was beyond belief. CB signing "unlikely". We weren't demanding 70 odd mill signings, we needed homework done and two new CB in through the door before a ball was kicked in Jan. Nothing was done, players such as Robbo who had spoken of reinforcements coming in disillusioned, and the collapse commenced with our world class midfield now emptied and moved to CB. Self sabotage, those two words sum it up.

The club then acknowledged it had ballsed up with that late shitshow after the horse had bolted with the team losing games (player with no PL experience and a 500k signing who never kicked a ball for us). For two complete unknowns to the league to bed in would have taken a fortnight, so that's mid Feb, by which stage the league was over (we lost five times between 4 Jan and 13 Feb). Complete lunacy. With our world class midfield back in place we then went on a near perfect run with a lower league CB pairing in Phillips and Williams. Had we only acted on 1 Jan, if bloody only.

There can be no debate that was the worst window of any team since the inception of the window.

The shitshow part II, summer 22 window, although it didn't quite match up to the first part (they rarely do) as the players hadn't killed themselves for nothing to get the team top of the league before not a thing was done to help them, it was still quite a balls up with the team crying out for midfield reinforcements. Like most lesser sequels it did repeat the part one storyline in that the team started losing games and then the club acted with another last ditch desperate signing, an Injury riddled snail, who to be fair did feature a whole 13 minutes more than 500k lad.


Thiago would have been very proud to put on the badge no doubt, and play under a great manager in an iconic stadium, but in terms of recruitment he joined a shambles.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Thanks for breaking that down for us. None of us knew what happened in 2020/2021 or 2022/2023 prior to that. Surprised it hasn't been brought up on here before.

Anyway, Thiago. Great player. Shame about the injuries.

[duvva 💅]

Thanks for breaking that down for us. None of us knew what happened in 2020/2021 or 2022/2023 prior to that. Surprised it hasn't been brought up on here before.

Anyway, Thiago. Great player. Shame about the injuries.

Not sure what any of it has to do with Thiago either