Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[west_london_red]

Slightly terrifying that Hamilton says he is still suffering from the effects of covid.  Bloody hell

He’s just after a blue badge for his Merc

[killer-heels]

According to the Times, everyone who’s getting a booster is getting a shot of Pfizer regardless of what they had for their first two doses.

Would that be one shot or two?

[TepidT2O]

Would that be one shot or two?

One booster shot.

You and I won’t be getting it.

[killer-heels]

One booster shot.

You and I won’t be getting it.

I had the Pfizer vaccine.

Unlucky for the 40-50 year olds. You lot missed out.

[TepidT2O]

I had the Pfizer vaccine.

Unlucky for the 40-50 year olds. You lot missed out.

I got AZ. Quids in…

[Welshred]

I had the Pfizer vaccine.

Unlucky for the 40-50 year olds. You lot missed out.

AZ is better than Pfizer in protection against the Delta variant...

[killer-heels]

AZ is better than Pfizer in protection against the Delta variant...

Well that’s shit.

[So… Howard Philips]

Well that’s shit.

Not if you've had AZ.

[Kashinoda]

AZ is better than Pfizer in protection against the Delta variant...

Two shots of Pfizer vaccine were 88% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.
Two shots of AstraZeneca vaccine were 67% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

[So… Howard Philips]

Just a thought -Are vaccine deniers against other measures ensuring public health like clean drinking water, effective sewage and controlling pests like rats?

[jonnypb]

AZ is better than Pfizer in protection against the Delta variant...

Not according to Public Health England, Pfizer offers better protection against the Delta variant.

[Welshred]

Two shots of Pfizer vaccine were 88% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.
Two shots of AstraZeneca vaccine were 67% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

This is good but I saw a study saying AZ was higher than that but typically can't find it now. Remember looking it up because we've been quoting the 33% for Moderna first dose in work despite my understanding of it being a lot higher than that. Either way there's 3 incredibly effective vaccines out on the market for us that will only get better when they've adapted to variants

[PaulF]

Just a thought -Are vaccine deniers against other measures ensuring public health like clean drinking water, effective sewage and controlling pests like rats?

Don't try and apply logic with these people.

[farawayred]

Two shots of Pfizer vaccine were 88% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.
Two shots of AstraZeneca vaccine were 67% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

I think that the picture is a bit more complex than the article portrays it. The Pfeizer vaccine loses some of its effectiveness six months after the second jab, and then the numbers would change quite a bit. Still early days...

[Macphisto80]

Just a thought -Are vaccine deniers against other measures ensuring public health like clean drinking water, effective sewage and controlling pests like rats?

These are people who refuse to wear masks and claim masks make people sick by depriving them of oxygen. They'll also vaccinate their dog, but when it comes to themselves...

[DHKopper]

This is good but I saw a study saying AZ was higher than that but typically can't find it now. Remember looking it up because we've been quoting the 33% for Moderna first dose in work despite my understanding of it being a lot higher than that. Either way there's 3 incredibly effective vaccines out on the market for us that will only get better when they've adapted to variants

Pretty sure I read that on Twitter, was the one with the cartoon Avi who tweeted it I think.  I've just got my smell/taste back today and feel completely normal again(slight headache only).  Felt like I'd had the absoulte shit kicked outta me late on Friday up until about mid afternoon today.  First tested postive last Sunday and felt pretty much fine all week.

I was double AZ jabbed early last month, so I'm sure that helped.  The good lady still hasn't got her voice/taste or smell back and she's off back to work tomorrow(also d-jabbed).  The new normal!

[No666]

Two shots of Pfizer vaccine were 88% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.
Two shots of AstraZeneca vaccine were 67% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/one_dose_of_azs_covid-19_vaccine_highly_effective_against_severe_disease_from_variants_1373510

[Libertine]

https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/one_dose_of_azs_covid-19_vaccine_highly_effective_against_severe_disease_from_variants_1373510

That's saying exactly the same as the NEJM article.

[thaddeus]

This is good but I saw a study saying AZ was higher than that but typically can't find it now. Remember looking it up because we've been quoting the 33% for Moderna first dose in work despite my understanding of it being a lot higher than that. Either way there's 3 incredibly effective vaccines out on the market for us that will only get better when they've adapted to variants

It does feel like, thanks to the effectiveness of the vaccines and the hard work in rolling them out, that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.  I can only speak for myself but I'm a lot more positive now but still haunted by the gloom of last Autumn and then the closure of schools after Christmas.

As the Beta variant seems to be the current bogeyman do you think a vaccine could be developed that would be more effective against it?

[TepidT2O]

It does feel like, thanks to the effectiveness of the vaccines and the hard work in rolling them out, that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.  I can only speak for myself but I'm a lot more positive now but still haunted by the gloom of last Autumn and then the closure of schools after Christmas.

As the Beta variant seems to be the current bogeyman do you think a vaccine could be developed that would be more effective against it?

Aren’t the autumn boosters designed fire the beta variant? (Or did I just make that up?)

[Alan_X]

Just a thought -Are vaccine deniers against other measures ensuring public health like clean drinking water, effective sewage and controlling pests like rats?

There's a big crossover between anti-vaxx and the 'wellness' industry. Just 12 people are responsible for the bulk of vaccine misinformation including aresholes who money out of alternative health nonsense. The Centre for Countering Digital Hate identified them in this report:

https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_b7cedc0553604720b7137f8663366ee5.pdf

Mercola makes millions out of the gullible selling alternative remedies and supplements.

Robert F Kennedy Jr runs an organisation with the misleading name 'Children's Health Defence' which promotes a range of anti-vaccination nonsense.

Ty & Charlene Bollinger make money by selling books and DVDs about vaccines and COVID

Sherri Tenpenny is an osteopath (osteopathy is a bullshit treatment masquerading as medical science) who promotes lies and has live streamed with Andrew Wakefield.

Rizza Islam promoted the story about the vaccine making women infertile last June. he also promoted the idea that COVID can be treated with a non-dairy diet and spices.

Rashid Buttar ia another osteopath and conspiracy theorist promoting infertility scare stories.

Erin Elizabeth is Mercola's wife. She runs healthnutnews (sounds fun!) which sells a vast raange of bullshit 'alternative' products and also spreads mis-information about COVID, vaccines along with disgusting anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

Sayer Ji - another alternative health guru. He runs GreenMedInfo.com which sounds healthy and 'natural' but pushes vaccine disinformation and scare stories.

Kelly Brogan, Sayer Ji's partner. A practioner of 'holistic psychiatry' who sells books and videos on her website. She adds the letters MD after her name despite having no medical qualifications. She's linked to Paltrow's Goop and alos claimed there's no such thing as disease and that AIDS was actually caused by the medicine meant to treat it.

Christiane Northrup trained in obstetrics and gynaecology but embraced alternative medicine. She promotes HCQ and Ivermectin among the usual anti-vax garbage.

Ben Tapper a Chiropracter (Chiropracty is a bullshit treatment similar to osteopathy) who pushes the idea that the immune system is all we need. He claims that "there is a total lack of evidence that viruses can live outside the body..."

Kevin Jenkins. Anti-vaxxer who claims vaccines are "a conspiracy to wipe out black people".

The prevalence of alternative health gurus in the spreading of anti-vaccination stories is not a coincidence. Right-wing libertarianism is the other strong thread running through it. In other times these people would have stayed in the background in niche magazines and bookstores. Facebook, Twitter and other social media with their "if you like this you might also like this" algorithms have allowed the garbage put out by these nutters to spread like wildfire.

PIlates, veganism, a few turmeric tablets, dietary supplements, fasting... it's the appeal to nature vs 'big pharma' debate and it opens the door to the cranks.

[No666]

That's saying exactly the same as the NEJM article.

Ah, sorry. Morning bleariness.

[Libertine]

Aren’t the autumn boosters designed fire the beta variant? (Or did I just make that up?)

I think the AZ one is. Seems to be the variant the existing AZ particularly struggles with.

The RNA vaccines should be very straightforward to adapt - don't like the variant, simply change the message.

I imagine the challenge will be similar to developing flu vaccines, predicting which will be the dominant strain given the time needed for development and production.

[PaulF]

Broadly agree with Alan's post, but isn't there room alongside pills for chiropractors and osteos. I'm not suggesting they cure covid but there's some ailments that they help alleviate the symptoms.
Veganism is often a better diet than many of us have. ( Though I guess it's more to do with willpower than the actual diet. If you can be a vegan, you can probably muster the discipline to have a better diet, whatever your it is). Decent diet and lack of obesity seems to help against covid.

[TepidT2O]

Broadly agree with Alan's post, but isn't there room alongside pills for chiropractors and osteos. I'm not suggesting they cure covid but there's some ailments that help.
Veganism is often a better diet than many of us have. ( Though I guess it's more to do with willpower than the actual diet. If you can be a vegan, you can probably muster the discipline to have a better diet, whatever your it is). Decent diet and lack of obesity seems to help against covid.

It’s like saying isn’t there room alongside buses and trains for invisible unicorns.  They don’t work.

[Welshred]

It’s like saying isn’t there room alongside buses and trains for invisible unicorns.  They don’t work.

There's some good chiro's and osteo's out there but those are the ones who are pseudo-physios and prescribe decent exercise regimes rather than tell someone they need to come back every other week to get cracked and pulled at £80 a session.

[TepidT2O]

There's some good chiro's and osteo's out there but those are the ones who are pseudo-physios and prescribe decent exercise regimes rather than tell someone they need to come back every other week to get cracked and pulled at £80 a session.

Yep… the ones who are accidental physios are the ones that are  actually worth it.

Those chiropractors who accidentally paralyse their clients are of course an enormous issue.

[PaulF]

There's some good chiro's and osteo's out there but those are the ones who are pseudo-physios and prescribe decent exercise regimes rather than tell someone they need to come back every other week to get cracked and pulled at £80 a session.

Coming from a place of ignorance. Would a decent GPb recommend chiro or osteo. Now I think about it, I know people that do physio. But the other two I'm less sure about. I thought they were an accepted branch of medicine ( but with some people labelling themselves it but doing nonsense). Judging from what your post says, physios are the only ones worth considering?

[[new username under construction]]

Those chiropractors who accidentally paralyse their clients are of course an enormous issue.

Yup, happened to a neighbour of mine a few years back, broke his neck :/

[Welshred]

Yep… the ones who are accidental physios are the ones that are  actually worth it.

Those chiropractors who accidentally paralyse their clients are of course an enormous issue.

The ones who manipulate babies are even more of an issue

Coming from a place of ignorance. Would a decent GPb recommend chiro or osteo. Now I think about it, I know people that do physio. But the other two I'm less sure about. I thought they were an accepted branch of medicine ( but with some people labelling themselves it but doing nonsense). Judging from what your post says, physios are the only ones worth considering?

Not really, Chiros and Osteos aren't usually available on the NHS so the GP wouldn't be allowed to. I'm obviously biased but if you want to get better and received top quality treatment rather than someone who is going to tell you your hip is twisted (its not), your sacrum is out of place (literally impossible unless you've had a very high speed car crash) and just wants to crack you twice a month to 'get you better' then you're better off seeing a physio. There's some snake oil physios out there as well who will do these things as well though but there's fewer of those around.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Just a thought -Are vaccine deniers against other measures ensuring public health like clean drinking water, effective sewage and controlling pests like rats?

They would be if they realised that these things are already mandated.

[Jm55]

There's a big crossover between anti-vaxx and the 'wellness' industry. Just 12 people are responsible for the bulk of vaccine misinformation including aresholes who money out of alternative health nonsense. The Centre for Countering Digital Hate identified them in this report:

https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_b7cedc0553604720b7137f8663366ee5.pdf

Mercola makes millions out of the gullible selling alternative remedies and supplements.

Robert F Kennedy Jr runs an organisation with the misleading name 'Children's Health Defence' which promotes a range of anti-vaccination nonsense.

Ty & Charlene Bollinger make money by selling books and DVDs about vaccines and COVID

Sherri Tenpenny is an osteopath (osteopathy is a bullshit treatment masquerading as medical science) who promotes lies and has live streamed with Andrew Wakefield.

Rizza Islam promoted the story about the vaccine making women infertile last June. he also promoted the idea that COVID can be treated with a non-dairy diet and spices.

Rashid Buttar ia another osteopath and conspiracy theorist promoting infertility scare stories.

Erin Elizabeth is Mercola's wife. She runs healthnutnews (sounds fun!) which sells a vast raange of bullshit 'alternative' products and also spreads mis-information about COVID, vaccines along with disgusting anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

Sayer Ji - another alternative health guru. He runs GreenMedInfo.com which sounds healthy and 'natural' but pushes vaccine disinformation and scare stories.

Kelly Brogan, Sayer Ji's partner. A practioner of 'holistic psychiatry' who sells books and videos on her website. She adds the letters MD after her name despite having no medical qualifications. She's linked to Paltrow's Goop and alos claimed there's no such thing as disease and that AIDS was actually caused by the medicine meant to treat it.

Christiane Northrup trained in obstetrics and gynaecology but embraced alternative medicine. She promotes HCQ and Ivermectin among the usual anti-vax garbage.

Ben Tapper a Chiropracter (Chiropracty is a bullshit treatment similar to osteopathy) who pushes the idea that the immune system is all we need. He claims that "there is a total lack of evidence that viruses can live outside the body..."

Kevin Jenkins. Anti-vaxxer who claims vaccines are "a conspiracy to wipe out black people".

The prevalence of alternative health gurus in the spreading of anti-vaccination stories is not a coincidence. Right-wing libertarianism is the other strong thread running through it. In other times these people would have stayed in the background in niche magazines and bookstores. Facebook, Twitter and other social media with their "if you like this you might also like this" algorithms have allowed the garbage put out by these nutters to spread like wildfire.

PIlates, veganism, a few turmeric tablets, dietary supplements, fasting... it's the appeal to nature vs 'big pharma' debate and it opens the door to the cranks.

Surprised Andrew Wakefield isn’t included in that report.

[Alan_X]

Broadly agree with Alan's post, but isn't there room alongside pills for chiropractors and osteos. I'm not suggesting they cure covid but there's some ailments that they help alleviate the symptoms.
Veganism is often a better diet than many of us have. ( Though I guess it's more to do with willpower than the actual diet. If you can be a vegan, you can probably muster the discipline to have a better diet, whatever your it is). Decent diet and lack of obesity seems to help against covid.

Sorry mate but no. Chiropracty is dangerous in itself and it encourages people to forego treatments that would prevent illness and save lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2012/apr/27/chiropractic-manipulation-spine-strokes

And a vegan diet is not a decent diet or particularly healthy. It certainly doesn't help fight against COVID any more than a good balanced omnivorous diet and if it encourages people to avoid vaccination and well-researched scientific treatments.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Broadly agree with Alan's post, but isn't there room alongside pills for chiropractors and osteos. I'm not suggesting they cure covid but there's some ailments that they help alleviate the symptoms.

No. They are less than worthless. They are not only ineffective and a waste of money, they can be dangerous: a friend of a friend died (of a broken neck) at the hands of chiropractor a few years back.

[Alan_X]

Surprised Andrew Wakefield isn’t included in that report.

He hasn't been that big as an online presence.

[Jiminy Cricket]

There's a big crossover between anti-vaxx and the 'wellness' industry. Just 12 people are responsible for the bulk of vaccine misinformation including aresholes who money out of alternative health nonsense. The Centre for Countering Digital Hate identified them in this report:

https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_b7cedc0553604720b7137f8663366ee5.pdf

[...]

PIlates, veganism, a few turmeric tablets, dietary supplements, fasting... it's the appeal to nature vs 'big pharma' debate and it opens the door to the cranks.

Thanks for the link to the report, Alan. Though, I had a double-take moment when I initially read 'fasting' as 'fisting'.

[thaddeus]

Yep… the ones who are accidental physios are the ones that are  actually worth it.

Those chiropractors who accidentally paralyse their clients are of course an enormous issue.

I visited an Osteopath for four weeks at £40 a turn when I had sciatica earlier this year.  She was pleasant and we had a nice chat whilst she rolled me around a bit but it didn't improve my sciatica at all.  To give her credit though she correctly diagnosed the cause and didn't overreach into fantastical resolutions.

A few appointments and an exercise plan with an NHS physio later and it's right as rain.

I have some friends in more physically demanding jobs - a joiner in-particular - who swear by their Osteopaths and have regular sessions to put right what's gone wrong as a result of their jobs.  I don't know whether they'd get the same outcome from visiting a physio.

[Alan_X]

I visited an Osteopath for four weeks at £40 a turn when I had sciatica earlier this year.  She was pleasant and we had a nice chat whilst she rolled me around a bit but it didn't improve my sciatica at all.  To give her credit though she correctly diagnosed the cause and didn't overreach into fantastical resolutions.

A few appointments and an exercise plan with an NHS physio later and it's right as rain.

I have some friends in more physically demanding jobs - a joiner in-particular - who swear by their Osteopaths and have regular sessions to put right what's gone wrong as a result of their jobs.  I don't know whether they'd get the same outcome from visiting a physio.

They probably would. Osteopathy is founded on mystical nonsense around the 'myofascial continuity' a  tissue layer that links all parts of the body (and doesn't actually exist). Osteopaths in the US have some medical training and may provide some useful physiotherapy because of that but it's essentially a placebo treatment.

There are some studies that show low to moderate evidence that it can be 'effective' for non-specific back pain. No evidence that it's of any benefit for anything else.

This sums it up for me. A treatment for impotence:



I'm tempted to start up a clinic for the old remedy of blowing smoke up the arse:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoke_enema

It's a useful as most other alternative treatments...

[Welshred]

They probably would. Osteopathy is founded on mystical nonsense around the 'myofascial continuity' a  tissue layer that links all parts of the body (and doesn't actually exist). Osteopaths in the US have some medical training and may provide some useful physiotherapy because of that but it's essentially a placebo treatment.

There are some studies that show low to moderate evidence that it can be 'effective' for non-specific back pain. No evidence that it's of any benefit for anything else.

This sums it up for me. A treatment for impotence:



I'm tempted to start up a clinic for the old remedy of blowing smoke up the arse:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoke_enema

It's a useful as most other alternative treatments...

Can you clarify this please Alan? Are you saying Myofascia doesn't exist?

I visited an Osteopath for four weeks at £40 a turn when I had sciatica earlier this year.  She was pleasant and we had a nice chat whilst she rolled me around a bit but it didn't improve my sciatica at all.  To give her credit though she correctly diagnosed the cause and didn't overreach into fantastical resolutions.

A few appointments and an exercise plan with an NHS physio later and it's right as rain.

I have some friends in more physically demanding jobs - a joiner in-particular - who swear by their Osteopaths and have regular sessions to put right what's gone wrong as a result of their jobs.  I don't know whether they'd get the same outcome from visiting a physio.

They probably wouldn't to be honest. They don't sound like they're the self management type of people and would rather someone else manage their symptoms for them. I don't think they'd take well to a physio approach as no one should be having regular sessions to manage what's gone wrong.

[thaddeus]

snip

I confess to having not read about it at all before going.  I was sceptical as it's an "opathy" but was convinced by friends of the wonders of the local Osteopath.  I think had I made the effort to read about it I would have saved myself £160 and got proper treatment a month earlier.  Live and learn.

I will show that diagram to them the next time we meet up and recommend they consider a physio appointment and preventative or self-help techniques prescribed by a professional.  I suspect I'd have more chance of getting them on-board with the idea of a tobacco smoke enema though as the monthly crack-everything-back-into-shape seems to be well liked.