Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[Wild Romany Boy]

i don't have an answer to your question, but you can join some dots between former Corbyn staff and the laundering of Galloway's image now there's a leader in place that has left them with less power and influence.

Take for example Owen Jones doing the 'journalists' equivalent of sportswashing the old bigoted crank as helpfully set out here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ciaranmcgurdy/status/1407280086043213824

I am a fan of Owen Jones, and he's done more to call out Galloway than most, but he should not have done the interview and, as he did, he should have added the same vigour as he has done in previous formats.

He has never been a member of Corbyn's staff though. He was as critical of Corbyn before the 2017 election as he is of Starmer now.

[Yorkykopite]

Try watching this without vomiting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1311909100725456897

You get a taste of what it must have been like for the average Briton to stumble upon a Lord Haw Haw Nazi broadcast from Berlin during the war.

[OOS]

If you're going to have an affair, you'd choose better than Matt Hancock.

Someone has done him dirty there. Looks like CCTV leaked from inside the ministry. I wonder who is behind this, surely its not a lone wolf civil servant/ security who wants a few quid from a certain rag ... Dom?

[Wild Romany Boy]

Someone has done him dirty there. Looks like CCTV leaked from inside the ministry. I wonder who is behind this, surely its not a lone wolf civil servant/ security who wants a few quid from a certain rag ... Dom?

Maybe you should go(ve) and place a bet on who it is.

[Nobby Reserve]

Galloway is a total opportunist but blaming him misses the point, we've got a government that has totally fucked up Covid, literally killed thousands of people, let the delta variant in, habitually lies, fucked up Northern Ireland, caused all sorts of economic problems, every day is shown to be more corrupt, Galloway should be an irrelevant, laughable sideshow. The fact he isn't is because Starmer is one of the least ineffectual leaders Labour has had, Johnson mustn't be able to believe his luck, ride out his cross examining at PMQ's then do what he wants knowing that Starmer can't touch him because he's an out of touch party hack that drones on like a boss at work, everyone listens to because he's in authority but no one rates him and laughs at him behind his back the minute he leaves the room.

Have some sympathy with your general point, but the point about Galloway is that he's stirring up shit amongst the large Muslim community. The area is already a bit of a tinderbox after sky fairy gobshites typically overreacted to a teacher showing some cartoons of their fictionist.

If he had a genuine chance of taking the seat (he doesn't) then whilst doing so would still be an absolute disgrace, you could at least see the justification. But he's doing this to fuck-over Labour, in full knowledge that the hard-right Tory Party will be the beneficiaries. And he's not doing this out of some long-game strategising; he's doing it out of self-importance and hate.

I fucking despise the twat.

[Yorkykopite]

I am a fan of Owen Jones, and he's done more to call out Galloway than most.

There's loads of people who have called out Galloway fortunately. Some now dead like the mighty Christopher Hitchens. Some very much living. Homage to all of them.

Genuine question, because I hardly ever read Owen Jones or listen to his podcasts. But what's Owen Jones's contribution been to this particular campaign? I'm interested because that little video is very gentle on him and describes Galloway mainly in ways that he'd describe himself.

[Zeppelin]

We know Matt Hancock is 'fucking hopeless' - maybe now we'll find out if he's hopeless fucking

[Wild Romany Boy]

There's loads of people who have called out Galloway fortunately. Some now dead like the mighty Christopher Hitchens. Some very much living. Homage to all of them.

Genuine question, because I hardly ever read Owen Jones or listen to his podcasts. But what's Owen Jones's contribution been to this particular campaign? I'm interested because that little video is very gentle on him and describes Galloway mainly in ways that he'd describe himself.

Hitchens was a mighty man, but he fell sharply in the years before he died. Not least a terrible article on why women aren't funny. From a leftist perspective, Jones frequently called him out.

Jones has just visited there to do a video for his channel, he interviewed several candidates including Galloway. The interview of Galloway is terrible and not up to standards I would expect of Owen Jones.

[Yorkykopite]

Hitchens was a mighty man, but he fell sharply in the years before he died. Not least a terrible article on why women aren't funny. From a leftist perspective, Jones frequently called him out.

Jones has just visited there to do a video for his channel, he interviewed several candidates including Galloway. The interview of Galloway is terrible and not up to standards I would expect of Owen Jones.

But what about the question I asked? 

[Wild Romany Boy]

But what about the question I asked?

Literally answered it. He went up to Batley and Spen to do a campaign video, he interviewed Galloway and Leadbetter. Leadbetter came across very well.

[Red Beret]

Or maybe it will never become because something fundamental is happening to democratic politics all over the world - something that would also engulf better leaders than Starmer. Call it the trivialisation of life in post-industrial capitalist economies. It started a few years ago perhaps. Remember Hartlepool's first response to being 'left behind' was to elect (and re-elect) a Monkey for Mayor. Brexit too was essentially a frivolous vote in which anyone who tried to raise 'economic' questions lost their audience immediately. The idea that the economy might be wrecked or severely damaged by leaving Europe was simply not taken seriously by millions of voters who preferred to treat the whole question on a psychological level. Trump in America - people voted for him as they would vote for someone on a TV show. That's to say as light enetertainment with no actual consequences. This is what we are up against. All seem to show that democratic politics is losing its seriousness and its fundamental purpose. Life, even under Covid, is clearly tolerable enough not to take too seriously. The death toll doesn't appear to count, unless you yourself have lost a loved one. It's much better to get back to light entertainment. Hence......Galloway. When politics are trivial and elections are frivolous candidates like Galloway will always come to the fore. They talk about 'identity' and the modern electorate absolutely laps that stuff up. There's nowt much Starmer can do about that.

Human civilisation goes through cycles of convulsion, collapse, and ascendancy. For the people of the age it probably seems inconceivable that anything could touch what has been built and endured for centuries; but most societies end up rotting from the inside, due to greed, lust for power, self gratification, and a general disinterest in maintaining what has been created.

The end isn't always cataclysmic either. Sometimes the decline is slow, barely perceptible, over generations. It's only at the point of final collapse that people suddenly realise the disaster they have sleep walked into.

I often wonder whether we are living in such times, even though, on paper at least, we are arguably living in mankind's most peaceful and prosperous era. I think the warning signs are all there though.

[Studgotelli]

surely he has to resign? Though he has too much pride not to.

Spits in the face of everything he’s been saying about us doing our part together.

[Nobby Reserve]

Galloway scathing about Jones.

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1408304175058927618

I hate the narrative that people like Jones or Corbyn or Starmer have only disdain for the 'working classes'. It's absolute bullshit. The hard-right exploited this, but when people claiming to be on the left perpetuate it, it makes my blood boil.

[Yorkykopite]

Literally answered it. He went up to Batley and Spen to do a campaign video, he interviewed Galloway and Leadbetter. Leadbetter came across very well.

Ha ok, that was the evidence of him calling out Galloway! Sorry, I thought you referring to a past where Jones had actually been calling out Galloway. I was surprised by that. My mistake.

[Studgotelli]

Human civilisation goes through cycles of convulsion, collapse, and ascendancy. For the people of the age it probably seems inconceivable that anything could touch what has been built and endured for centuries; but most societies end up rotting from the inside, due to greed, lust for power, self gratification, and a general disinterest in maintaining what has been created.

The end isn't always cataclysmic either. Sometimes the decline is slow, barely perceptible, over generations. It's only at the point of final collapse that people suddenly realise the disaster they have sleep walked into.

I often wonder whether we are living in such times, even though, on paper at least, we are arguably living in mankind's most peaceful and prosperous era. I think the warning signs are all there though.

All facts. Exactly where we are at the moment, a slow sleep walk that most are failing to see IMO. COVID has taught me the majority of us are on autopilot and it’s sad.

The current system is on fire and we are seeing a new system being ushered in slowly. I don’t think it’ll be a total collapse, the “war” is the pandemic. One thing though is you can never bet against the ignorance of the general public which will dictate how quickly things move.

[jonnypb]

surely he has to resign? Though he has too much pride not to.

Spits in the face of everything he’s been saying about us doing our part together.

From the Independent news feed....

Here’s a reminder of what the health secretary said about Professor Neil Ferguson, previously a government scientific adviser, when it was revealed that he had allowed a woman who was reportedly his lover to visit his home during the first Covid lockdown.

Professor Ferguson, who played a key role in the UK’s pandemic response, resigned over the matter following newspaper reports of the breach of lockdown rules.

In May 2020, Matt Hancock said:

“Professor Ferguson is a very eminent and impressive scientist and the science that he has done has been an important part of what we've listened to.

“I think he took the right decision to resign.”

“But I think the social distancing rules are very important and people should follow them."

Obviously, the restrictions in May 2021 were much less tough than they were during the first lockdown but those comments make for awkward reading for the minister now...

[Wild Romany Boy]

Ha ok, that was the evidence of him calling out Galloway! Sorry, I thought you referring to a past where Jones had actually been calling out Galloway. I was surprised by that. My mistake.

You asked what Jones's contribution was to this particular campaign, I naively assumed that you meant the actual campaign that was going on.

You want to see where Jones has lambasted Galloway, then search his Twitter and read his book. He's done it in his printed works too.

Which made his interview with Galloway all the more disappointing.

[Studgotelli]

From the Independent news feed....

Here’s a reminder of what the health secretary said about Professor Neil Ferguson, previously a government scientific adviser, when it was revealed that he had allowed a woman who was reportedly his lover to visit his home during the first Covid lockdown.

Professor Ferguson, who played a key role in the UK’s pandemic response, resigned over the matter following newspaper reports of the breach of lockdown rules.

In May 2020, Matt Hancock said:

“Professor Ferguson is a very eminent and impressive scientist and the science that he has done has been an important part of what we've listened to.

“I think he took the right decision to resign.”

“But I think the social distancing rules are very important and people should follow them."

Obviously, the restrictions in May 2021 were much less tough than they were during the first lockdown but those comments make for awkward reading for the minister now...

  Can’t wait to see the TV drama about all this in a few years

[the 92A]

So let the Corbyn faction nominate someone competent that they would support wholeheartedly. I have no particular attachment to Starmer, and if there is enough support for a replacement leader, would replace him in a heartbeat.

Let your Corbyn hate go, he's no longer leader and just like before he became leader, he's no longer the answer to why the Labour Party is failing. We're not talking left or right here, we're talking about basic competence, if the Labour Party can't find someone better than Starmer give up. I never had time for Blair, but he was a competent right winger, you could disagree with his politics but he connected with people outside of politics and didn't come across as someone who didn't have a personality, an original thought or a deeply held conviction.
Starmer is a disaster, he is the definition of a grey man, you can see the delight in Mandellson's voice he's come across the only person he can play Svengali to, I thought you said us dumb working class idiots had no where to go, eh Peter!  Starmer is incapable of uniting the factions in Labour, even on the surface. He is a total electoral liability. I have no particular attachment to Andy Burnham or anyone in the Labour Party, I'm totally disillusioned by the in fighting,  I can just about force myself out to vote for a Labour Party that spends more time attacking each other than the Tories but Burnham roasts Starmer on every level.

[Welshred]

You asked what Jones's contribution was to this particular campaign, I naively assumed that you meant the actual campaign that was going on.

You want to see where Jones has lambasted Galloway, then search his Twitter and read his book. He's done it in his printed works too.

Which made his interview with Galloway all the more disappointing.

He absolutely loathes him doesn't he, you can tell from the love in his eyes...

[Wild Romany Boy]

He absolutely loathes him doesn't he, you can tell from the love in his eyes...

We can all take a still and read the room, but it doesn't seem that affection goes both ways:

https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1408336250092859393

Nor does Owen seem to like him much come to think of it:

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1407292622486581248
https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1406262509296930818

But sure, a still photograph sure plays up.

Like I said, he should not have done the interview. He should have been far more combative if he did so, but he has a history of calling out Galloway on Twitter and he's voted Labour all his life. He should not have done that interview, but let's not pretend he is an opportunistic huckster like Galloway ay?

[Nobby Reserve]

Can’t wait to see the TV drama about all this in a few years

Won't be on the BBC, though.

The government will see to that.

[killer-heels]

Do you have to maintain social distance from your mistress?

[TSC]

Won't be on the BBC, though.

The government will see to that.

Can’t see media asking prof ferguson for his views either.

[gazzalfc]

He wont resign. He's just 'very sorry' and would stay "focused" on dealing with the pandemic.

[Sangria]

Let your Corbyn hate go, he's no longer leader and just like before he became leader, he's no longer the answer to why the Labour Party is failing. We're not talking left or right here, we're talking about basic competence, if the Labour Party can't find someone better than Starmer give up. I never had time for Blair, but he was a competent right winger, you could disagree with his politics but he connected with people outside of politics and didn't come across as someone who didn't have a personality, an original thought or a deeply held conviction.
Starmer is a disaster, he is the definition of a grey man, you can see the delight in Mandellson's voice he's come across the only person he can play Svengali to, I thought you said us dumb working class idiots had no where to go, eh Peter!  Starmer is incapable of uniting the factions in Labour, even on the surface. He is a total electoral liability. I have no particular attachment to Andy Burnham or anyone in the Labour Party, I'm totally disillusioned by the in fighting,  I can just about force myself out to vote for a Labour Party that spends more time attacking each other than the Tories but Burnham roasts Starmer on every level.

I have no issue with Corbyn. My issue is with his supporters. Or maybe they shouldn't be called his supporters any more, since he doesn't lead a faction any more. But the faction does exist, and they are a group distinguished by their loyalty to him.

[Welshred]

I have no issue with Corbyn. My issue is with his supporters. Or maybe they shouldn't be called his supporters any more, since he doesn't lead a faction any more. But the faction does exist, and they are a group distinguished by their loyalty to him.

They or he still had nothing to do with 92As original statement

[Machae]

Hancock should have been sacked ages ago, especially more so when he did that fake cry on Good Morning Britain when the first wave of vaccines were introduced

https://youtu.be/MnV9LumDxZk

[Studgotelli]

https://twitter.com/halcruttenden/status/1408334339973189633?s=21

[Sangria]

They or he still had nothing to do with 92As original statement

I invited them to nominate someone competent that they'd wholeheartedly stand behind. 92A told me to get over Corbyn. So I explained that it's his supporters, not Corbyn, who are the issue.

[Yorkykopite]

You asked what Jones's contribution was to this particular campaign, I naively assumed that you meant the actual campaign that was going on.

If you'd read my previous sentence the "this" would not have confused you! Or if you'd remembered your original assertion (which I was directly questioning) that Owen Jones "had done more to call out Galloway than most" everything would have been crystal clear.

Regardless, I've just checked your new assertion that the evidence for Jones calling out Galloway can be seen "in his book". I've read two of them and have them in front of me now. In 'Chelsea'* there is a single mention of Galloway - a generous one too. In 'This Land' I can find nothing, even in the chapter on antisemitism and the left. That leaves 'The Establishment', which I've never read and don't have. Is the Jones attack on Galloway in there?

Remember we are looking for an Owen Jones attack on Galloway's politics that is equal to anything done by anyone else, such as Hitchens or Aaronovitch or Blair. In Jones's "printed works", which you also mention, I did find this. 
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/left-should-learn-about-plain-speaking-george-galloway-8498536.html

It''s not much of an attack is it? Jones does call Galloway's defence of rape "unacceptable" I suppose. A strange choice of word. But on the whole it's a rather flattering portrait of the old Stalinist.

Does any of this matter? I think it does. Not because of Jones. He's unimportant. But because it's symptomatic of a lingering idea on the left that there's a bit of Galloway that is worth saving. The Jones video from Batley demonstrates this erroneous idea.

*Hilarious! The book is not called that. That's RAWK's autocorrect. But you will know the book I'm referring to.

[Yorkykopite]

I have no issue with Corbyn.

What? Well and truly through the looking glass now Sangria!

[Nobby Reserve]

The problem is, Johnson is just as guilty - and if the Arcuri investigation shows he was shagging her whilst giving her taxpayer quids, then there is a direct equivalence.

Saying that, Starmer and Labour would even manage to miss that own goal (and even if they did find the net, the right-wing media and Tory propaganda BBC would still news-blackout it)

[Rhi]

https://twitter.com/halcruttenden/status/1408334339973189633?s=21

 

[Nobby Reserve]

Let your Corbyn hate go, he's no longer leader and just like before he became leader, he's no longer the answer to why the Labour Party is failing. We're not talking left or right here, we're talking about basic competence, if the Labour Party can't find someone better than Starmer give up. I never had time for Blair, but he was a competent right winger, you could disagree with his politics but he connected with people outside of politics and didn't come across as someone who didn't have a personality, an original thought or a deeply held conviction.
Starmer is a disaster, he is the definition of a grey man, you can see the delight in Mandellson's voice he's come across the only person he can play Svengali to, I thought you said us dumb working class idiots had no where to go, eh Peter!  Starmer is incapable of uniting the factions in Labour, even on the surface. He is a total electoral liability. I have no particular attachment to Andy Burnham or anyone in the Labour Party, I'm totally disillusioned by the in fighting,  I can just about force myself out to vote for a Labour Party that spends more time attacking each other than the Tories but Burnham roasts Starmer on every level.

 

Sums it up - although I have reservations about Burnham (I like him, wanted him to win in the Corbyn leadership election, but he's prone to walk into some battles that appear to take him by surprise and that he seems unprepared for)

[thaddeus]

Sorry if this was discussed pages back but are we assuming Johnson finally sacks Hancock now?  Despite all the media clamouring Johnson didn't seem to suffer much for "expending political capital" on protecting Cummings so he might do the same with Hancock - if for nothing else than keeping a willing stooge in a senior cabinet position.

[hide5seek]

Let your Corbyn hate go, he's no longer leader and just like before he became leader, he's no longer the answer to why the Labour Party is failing. We're not talking left or right here, we're talking about basic competence, if the Labour Party can't find someone better than Starmer give up. I never had time for Blair, but he was a competent right winger, you could disagree with his politics but he connected with people outside of politics and didn't come across as someone who didn't have a personality, an original thought or a deeply held conviction.
Starmer is a disaster, he is the definition of a grey man, you can see the delight in Mandellson's voice he's come across the only person he can play Svengali to, I thought you said us dumb working class idiots had no where to go, eh Peter!  Starmer is incapable of uniting the factions in Labour, even on the surface. He is a total electoral liability. I have no particular attachment to Andy Burnham or anyone in the Labour Party, I'm totally disillusioned by the in fighting,  I can just about force myself out to vote for a Labour Party that spends more time attacking each other than the Tories but Burnham roasts Starmer on every level.

to much rubbish in this post to know where to start.

[jackh]

Sorry if this was discussed pages back but are we assuming Johnson finally sacks Hancock now?  Despite all the media clamouring Johnson didn't seem to suffer much for "expending political capital" on protecting Cummings so he might do the same with Hancock - if for nothing else than keeping a willing stooge in a senior cabinet position.

Apology-accepted, case-closed, and full-confidence, apparently...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jun/25/uk-covid-coronavirus-live-news-travel-boris-johnson-matt-hancock?page=with:block-60d5cdc48f0814bdddf9b11f#block-60d5cdc48f0814bdddf9b11f

[Welshred]

I invited them to nominate someone competent that they'd wholeheartedly stand behind. 92A told me to get over Corbyn. So I explained that it's his supporters, not Corbyn, who are the issue.

Why did you invite them though from 92A's post? It had nothing to do with Corbynites.

[Welshred]

The problem is, Johnson is just as guilty - and if the Arcuri investigation shows he was shagging her whilst giving her taxpayer quids, then there is a direct equivalence.

Saying that, Starmer and Labour would even manage to miss that own goal (and even if they did find the net, the right-wing media and Tory propaganda BBC would still news-blackout it)

Starmer and Labour have been calling for his sacking all afternoon