Author Topic: The Murder of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.  (Read 150046 times)

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3480 on: April 18, 2021, 12:41:47 pm »
True. Some of the defunders now want to abolish jails.

Jails work do they? Very good at rehabilitating people. Or do you just want people locked up forever.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3481 on: April 18, 2021, 12:55:21 pm »
Jails work do they? Very good at rehabilitating people. Or do you just want people locked up forever.

The UK had a good system in place that assessed offenders, gave them an opportunity to review their life, make positive choices towards a positive outcome; providing therapy, support, treatment, education and inclusion.

But it cost quite a lot of money to run.

The Tories when they got in - the first thing they did was start to disband it. They'd rather prisoners rot in a cheaply run cell, run by a half-arsed security firm. They have always been the Party that has 'known the price of everything and known the value of nothing'

I'd imagine that things in US Prisons are much, much worse. Well.. given documentaries and news items you see. Not living in America, you can't be certain, but they look shocking. This three-strike bullshit and holding peoples food back unless they enact in slave Labour doesn't help either I'd wager.

But studies have shown that if you just lob people into jails and give them no councilling, help, support, educaiton and give them no opportunity to be seperated from dangerous people then they'll just come out twice as nasty and twice as dangerous as they went in. Conservatives argue that it 'costs too much'  but does it?  Does it cost more than the damage to propery or business or individuals or families if greater crimes are commited?

Kicking the can down the road and sticking your fingers in your ears whistling has never seemed to me to be the best clued-up political response to a situation.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3482 on: April 18, 2021, 06:09:53 pm »
True. Some of the defunders now want to abolish jails the for profit prisons.

Big difference.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3483 on: April 18, 2021, 06:13:37 pm »
Shit job. Dangerous.  Can get you killed or maimed.  Low pay, swing shifts, low job satisfaction, everybody hates you. Newly emboldened people asking how many people you killed today, catcalls behind your back. Packing all the time, never completely off duty.

Reform yes. Defund? NFW.

Who's gonna chase bad guys with guns down alleys at night or face down drug gangs armed to the teeth?


Over $5000pm basic,a nice fat pension,healthcare & a license to kill.

Low pay  ;D
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3484 on: April 18, 2021, 10:49:19 pm »
I want citizens to stop having to pay millions in lawsuits against rogue cops criminal deeds.

Each cop should get a grand per year with which their union can purchase insurance.
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Offline Hazell

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3485 on: April 19, 2021, 06:47:06 pm »
Just watching the closing arguments of the defence and am thinking 'how much nonsense is the guy talking' and 'fuck off'.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3486 on: April 19, 2021, 07:02:21 pm »
Just watching the closing arguments of the defence and am thinking 'how much nonsense is the guy talking' and 'fuck off'.

I want to kick his face in whenever he talks about "a reasonable police officer". I just hope that the c*nt won't get away with all this bollocks. I have no doubt though, that the prosecution will take all that shite apart in their rebuttal...

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3487 on: April 19, 2021, 07:04:19 pm »
feels like Trump's defence at his last impeachment.
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Offline Hazell

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3488 on: April 19, 2021, 07:22:45 pm »
I want to kick his face in whenever he talks about "a reasonable police officer". I just hope that the c*nt won't get away with all this bollocks. I have no doubt though, that the prosecution will take all that shite apart in their rebuttal...

How many times did he repeat the term 'a reasonable police officer'. When that's put against that bystander video, it really hits home.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3489 on: April 19, 2021, 07:31:34 pm »
Fucking hell. If he starts crying now I'll kick my TV in... "those poor police officers who were just found their job and killed a man" I'm feeling sick...

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3490 on: April 19, 2021, 07:37:15 pm »
I want to kick his face in whenever he talks about "a reasonable police officer". I just hope that the c*nt won't get away with all this bollocks. I have no doubt though, that the prosecution will take all that shite apart in their rebuttal...
Couldn't believe it when he said. he COULD of done this or he COULD of done that, how it's not a matter of what he could of done, it's about what he should of done. I would of thought this was a argument that the prosecution would be making as all the COULDS arguments just cloud the issue which benefits the defence.
 
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Offline Hazell

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3491 on: April 19, 2021, 07:43:16 pm »
Couldn't believe it when he said. he COULD of done this or he COULD of done that, how it's not a matter of what he could of done, it's about what he should of done. I would of thought this was a argument that the prosecution would be making as all the COULDS arguments just cloud the issue which benefits the defence as.
 

His whole thing about it is COULD. Carbon Monoxide COULD have killed him, drugs COULD have killed him, George Floyd COULD have been lying when he said he was claustrophobic and that he couldn't breathe, he COULD have come to and become violent after he passed out so that justified them in carrying on pinning him down and not administering first aid. It's actually incredible that his argument (among other things) is basically give the police carte blanche to do what they want to any individual.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 07:57:56 pm by Hazell »
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3492 on: April 19, 2021, 07:57:35 pm »
His whole thing about it is COULD. Carbon Monoxide COULD have killed him, drugs COULD have killed him, George Floyd COULD have been lying when he said he was claustrophobic and that he couldn't breathe, he COULD have come to and become violent after he passed out so that justified them in carrying on pinning him down and not administering first aid. It's actually incredible that his argument (among other things) is basically let the police do what they want to any individual because there's a chance that person COULD do something.

It's all about reasonable doubt.  It's nothing but fogging the issue.  Smoke and mirrors, distractions and confusion.  All they can do is run interference and hope the jury falls for it.
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Offline Hazell

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3493 on: April 19, 2021, 08:06:36 pm »
It's all about reasonable doubt.  It's nothing but fogging the issue.  Smoke and mirrors, distractions and confusion.  All they can do is run interference and hope the jury falls for it.

I agree (I think I said as much before) but if I was on that jury, I would be thinking that his arguments don't add up. Like introducing carbon monoxide as another possible factor of death, that was disproved. Him saying people could become violent after they pass out doesn't make sense because the police officers/sergeants who testified actually said the opposite and that police can't base their actions on what could happen, which is literally the opposite of what he's saying. Him saying people could be lying when they say they're in distress and so you shouldn't believe them is the opposite and that police can't base their actions on not believing an individual just because. Him saying over and over about a 'reasonable police officer' when juxtaposed with the video makes his comments laughable.

Might just be me but it's really weak and kind of pathetic.

I agree overall that he's trying to create doubt and has had more 'success' by talking about his heart and drugs but even then, the experts that the prosecution called were really effective in saying why those were unlikely to be the case. And the defence's sole medical witness wasn't really clear about why it should be the opposite.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3494 on: April 19, 2021, 09:21:33 pm »
I agree (I think I said as much before) but if I was on that jury, I would be thinking that his arguments don't add up. Like introducing carbon monoxide as another possible factor of death, that was disproved. Him saying people could become violent after they pass out doesn't make sense because the police officers/sergeants who testified actually said the opposite and that police can't base their actions on what could happen, which is literally the opposite of what he's saying. Him saying people could be lying when they say they're in distress and so you shouldn't believe them is the opposite and that police can't base their actions on not believing an individual just because. Him saying over and over about a 'reasonable police officer' when juxtaposed with the video makes his comments laughable.

Might just be me but it's really weak and kind of pathetic.

I agree overall that he's trying to create doubt and has had more 'success' by talking about his heart and drugs but even then, the experts that the prosecution called were really effective in saying why those were unlikely to be the case. And the defence's sole medical witness wasn't really clear about why it should be the opposite.

It is weak, but like I said earlier, so was Trump's defense. It's a straw man case that relies on the jury not being impartial, and tries to give a fig leaf of an excuse not to be.
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Offline Hazell

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3495 on: April 19, 2021, 10:27:50 pm »
It is weak, but like I said earlier, so was Trump's defense. It's a straw man case that relies on the jury not being impartial, and tries to give a fig leaf of an excuse not to be.

Yeah agree but trying to be objective, I don't think he did anywhere near enough a good job from a defence point of view. Obviously doesn't mean someone on the jury won't think different.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3496 on: April 19, 2021, 10:36:55 pm »
Feel a bit better after that rebuttal. The prosecution completely destroyed the defence's case in the end and reminded the jury that almost everything the defence brought up was a load of bollocks and has been disproven by expert witnesses. They also put the carbon monoxide thing in perspective saying that even if carbon monoxide had been an issue (which it hadn't) it doesn't really work in Chauvin's favour when he puts a suspect's head right next to the exhaust pipe of the vehicle. And finally the prosecutor made it clear why the witnesses were getting angry, because they were watching a man right in front of their eyes, but couldn't do anything to stop it. I don't think that was ever said during the trial. The last sentence "George Floyd didn't die because of his big heart, but because Derek Chauvin's small heart" would have been great, but it lost a bit of impact with Blackwell fiddling with the pictures. Should have just said the words and not try to show the pictures at the same time, but it was probably trying to send the jury off with the picture of Chauvin's knee on George Floyd's neck in their mind.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 12:10:01 am by stoa »

Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3497 on: April 20, 2021, 08:43:44 am »

"police engage in a pattern of excessive force against people suffering from mental illness"

10 January, 2006

Fuck them and their cohorts! Nothing significant on this matter has been uttered since!

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3498 on: April 20, 2021, 08:52:12 am »

Was out earlier and walked by a new rebranded park. The kid was killed on the 27th of August. Thanks for the response. Still have not released the body cam from that day.


Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3499 on: April 20, 2021, 11:48:54 am »

Civil immunity to those who kill or injure protesters in Florida now if there is more than three protesting.

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3500 on: April 20, 2021, 06:17:01 pm »
Civil immunity to those who kill or injure protesters in Florida now if there is more than three protesting.
Sound policy. What could go wrong? Especially in the state of Florida, which is only the 2nd most armed state in the nation.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3501 on: April 20, 2021, 08:30:20 pm »
Jury reach a verdict
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Offline Hazell

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3502 on: April 20, 2021, 08:43:05 pm »
Jury reach a verdict

Think it'll be delivered at 9.30 tonight UK time.

With it being so quick, I suspect it could be guilty on all counts. I would have thought there'd be more to-ing and fro-ing if it were anything else.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3503 on: April 20, 2021, 08:47:03 pm »
Think it'll be delivered at 9.30 tonight UK time.

With it being so quick, I suspect it could be guilty on all counts. I would have thought there'd be more to-ing and fro-ing if it were anything else.
Yeah, all in agreement so quick can only mean guilty. IMO. not all counts though. guilty, 3rd Degree murder.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 09:10:47 pm by oldfordie »
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3504 on: April 20, 2021, 08:52:16 pm »
I'm assuming they need a unanimous verdict?  We definitely have a verdict rather than a hung jury?
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Offline Hazell

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3505 on: April 20, 2021, 08:53:18 pm »
I'm assuming they need a unanimous verdict?  We definitely have a verdict rather than a hung jury?

Yeah, they need a unanimous verdict mate.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3506 on: April 20, 2021, 09:00:10 pm »
Think it'll be delivered at 9.30 tonight UK time
Yeah in just over 30 minutes. Going by CNN.

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3507 on: April 20, 2021, 09:16:38 pm »
Yeah, all in agreement so quick can only mean guilty. IMO. not all counts though. guilty, 3rd Degree murder.

I think if it's 3rd degree murder then it would also be 2nd degree manslaughter. Don't remember what is needed for 2nd degree manslaughter, but I don't see how they can find him guilty of the more severe charge and not the lesser one. And for what it's worth I think it'll be guilty on all counts. Not much needed for it to be second degree murder. They only have to see his treatment of George Floyd as an assault and that could well happen in my view if you take into account all the witness testimonies.

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3508 on: April 20, 2021, 09:18:19 pm »
If found not guilty are we expecting a bloodbath across the US tonight?
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3509 on: April 20, 2021, 09:18:55 pm »
Yeah, they need a unanimous verdict mate.

Phew.  For a moment I was worried there might have been one or two holdouts causing a hung jury, which would have made further deliberations pointless.  But likely they would have said if that was the case. 

A unanimous aquittal seems far fetched, so fingers crossed.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3510 on: April 20, 2021, 09:25:34 pm »
If found not guilty are we expecting a bloodbath across the US tonight?
Not sure about bloodbath but there'll be hell to pay for all involved.

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3511 on: April 20, 2021, 09:33:05 pm »
If found not guilty are we expecting a bloodbath across the US tonight?

If not found guilty on any counts, yes.

I suspect he will be found guilty of the lesser murder and manslaughter charges
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3512 on: April 20, 2021, 09:33:15 pm »
Jury reach a verdict

Extremely quick verdict given how high-profile the case is. Chauvin is toast. Probably a matter of what the sentence is now

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3513 on: April 20, 2021, 09:38:40 pm »
This BBC News coverage is fucking shocking.

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3514 on: April 20, 2021, 09:41:34 pm »
I think if it's 3rd degree murder then it would also be 2nd degree manslaughter. Don't remember what is needed for 2nd degree manslaughter, but I don't see how they can find him guilty of the more severe charge and not the lesser one. And for what it's worth I think it'll be guilty on all counts. Not much needed for it to be second degree murder. They only have to see his treatment of George Floyd as an assault and that could well happen in my view if you take into account all the witness testimonies.
You may well be right, debates on tv right now all think it must be unanimous on all counts.
I haven't got a strong opinion on this so I wouldn't disagree with the jury if they do find him guilty on all counts, I know the most serious charge is unintentional murder but the lesser charge of 3rd degree murder could be the easiest choice a jury could agree on unanimously.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3515 on: April 20, 2021, 09:52:09 pm »
This BBC News coverage is fucking shocking.

in what way, for those who arent watching it

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3516 on: April 20, 2021, 09:52:26 pm »
Send the c*nt down.

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3517 on: April 20, 2021, 09:58:54 pm »
Quite emotional watching this really. Hope the right thing is done and this sets a precedent going forward.

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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3518 on: April 20, 2021, 10:04:14 pm »


Quote
In the minutes before the verdict, there is a semi-festive atmosphere outside the court building. It smells like marijuana, and funk music is blaring from a car stereo.

Let's hope for the right verdict.
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Re: The Death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
« Reply #3519 on: April 20, 2021, 10:06:33 pm »
Guilty of 2nd Degree Murder
Guilty of 3rd Degree Muder
Guilty of 2nd Degree Manslaughter