Author Topic: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity  (Read 21156 times)

Offline vagabond

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2018, 09:52:15 pm »
The best thing about this season and this cup run is that it was no fluke. The team truly is this talented. We'll be back again, angrier, older, wiser, better.
Sometimes a man stands up during supper
and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking,
because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
---Rilke

Offline Justin Siderbox

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2018, 10:11:16 pm »
Lots to take away from this season and some important lessons to be learnt on and off the pitch. Squad needs greater strength in depth, some are coming, others are needed. Trent and Robbo have youth on their side and will have taken on loads from the experience. Midfield does need work, Keita will help but more to be done. Same for central defence. Cover needed upfront too but the attack has proven it is a match for anyone.  GK is an issue, but we knew that before last night.

Had no interest in the World Cup before last night. Now I have on two fronts; firstly to see Salah show the world just what a player he is (the opportunity was taken from him last night), second, we have the chance that see Ramos end his career in front of a world stage. Have held a soft spot for Spain since Rafa's days and our Spanish contingent. Now I want some yard dog, any yard dog, to do for Ramos in a way that rids his type from the game for good.

Plenty to look forward to then, if there's any justice in this world.

"It's our job that they can forget their problems for 90 minutes and then they can talk about the game, about the next game and that's how I want to live"

Jurgen Klopp
9th October 2015

Online Mister Flip Flop

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2018, 10:17:17 pm »
Couple of signings and we beat Madrid next season in the final on their home patch.  :wave

Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Offline scouseman

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2018, 10:18:55 pm »
Chin up lads we will just have to go and win it in Madrid and then retain in turkey for the second time. We are so lucky to have Klopp as our manager. We will win things under him for sure. We just need to wait a bit more for the fruits of his labour to pay off. In the mean time we have an vital transfer to go into, a world cup to enjoy and before you know it the fixtures will be out for the PL and the season will start again. New adventures await my fellow reds. Just keep the positive run to the final ias memories we will forever look back on. We are LIVERPOOL. 

Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2018, 10:20:16 pm »
Firmino 26
Mane 26
Salah 25

Wijnaldum 27
Ox 24
Keita 23

Alexander-Arnold 19
van Dijk 26
Robertson 24

The core of our team has it's best years ahead.

Offline ABZ Rover

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2018, 10:23:32 pm »
It was one hell of a ride this year and I can’t wait to start the journey all over again in August.

We are going in the right direction at last and we will be stronger for our experiences last night.

Believe.
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Offline vblfc

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2018, 10:26:30 pm »
Klopp singing with fans is just great. He knows the score and has again shown he just gets it. Just like us he has to suck it up, turn the page and move forward with the rest of us.
I love what he is doing. In some parts of this season he had us playing like madmen and, when we were really buzzing, we were as unstoppable as I can remember. Especially when we sort of explode into a pressing machine, that alone has been worth it for me.
If we ever really get consistent with Klopp then it will be beyond mad. We are so well set with him driving us. Klopp is just about perfect for us and the players we add move us forward.
That being said, i am glad we get a break now. The rollercoaster this year, especially leading up to yesterday was some craic but seriously heavy on the nerves. My head is full of it and I need to give it a break.

So onwards and upwards we go into next year and, as I think about our great set up going forward, I expect lots of change, mistakes, ups, downs and chaos. But we are in a good place and I wouldnt swap a thing. (Except maybe a honking big ARE stand)

Offline GeorgiaRed

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2018, 10:28:46 pm »
I'm confident in this team. I'm supremely confident in the manager.

Fuck, I'm even positive about Karius. It's a long way back for him but chastening experiences like that are what can make a player rather than break them. There are the makings of really good keeper there.
[/quote

This. In goal keeping terms Karius is a baby at 24 years of age. The sad thing for him is that these types of errors usually take place in lower league games while a keeper builds his experience. I hope he stays strong and that LFC has a good support network. Yes, he made two bad mistakes, but hopefully he will build on it. If he was doing this at say at 27 years old then I would agree that there is a need for an upgrade.  My hope for him is that some season soon he gets the joy of winning not only the European Cup but the PL too.  I won't be surprised if Klopp sticks with him. We are just going through Karius development process with him with the whole world watching. That is not an easy. Kind of like a parent watching your child grow up with all of the bad decisions they make. At the top level supporters of those teams are use to seeing the finished article not watching the development of a player before our eyes. I think he will come good in the end. Some tough lessons from the final. Karius YNWA!

Offline Fruity

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #88 on: May 27, 2018, 10:32:04 pm »
There are plenty of positives in terms of going forward. On our day we can beat anyone. We are far more consistent in the league this season. Could have comfortably hit 80 points if it wasn't for the CL games towards the end.

New players coming in means we can only get better and its clear where we need new options.

The thing for me next season is we need to win a trophy. Even if it's the league cup. This group of players need to know what it's like to win something and become winners. We have the personnel now to win trophies but we need to get over that final hurdle as I am sure once we do there will be many more trophies. Adding some experience to the team may help in this as we are still a relatively young side.
alf a pound of braeburns!

Offline LFC Boy

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2018, 10:44:16 pm »
I already posted here a couple of times but I'm struggling to go to bed (it's late where I am), and I'm thinking about next season.

How many times in the past 6-8 years, were we looking forward to the next season so eagerly?! After Sevilla I didn't want to think about football at all for the next month or so. Today, all I can think about is us getting back on the pitch and coming back stronger than we did this season.

Believe, don't doubt.

Offline RogerTheRed

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #90 on: May 27, 2018, 10:49:11 pm »
Come on Redmen!!
Can’t think of a match where such a combination of freak good and bad goals went against us, never mind the thuggish behaviour of Ramos.
We cannot let this freak event derail our journey back to the top.
YNWA
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Come On You Mighty Scouse Reds!!

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2018, 10:53:37 pm »
We are the best team to support in the world right now. Everything is run the right way. We don’t want to lower ourselves to at win at all costs mentality. Playing football the right way as a big family is far greater than any trophy.

Believe and glory will come. But success is only worth having if it’s achieved in the right way. Anything less and it’s tainted. We’ve had a great journey and we’ll have a few more. Always together, stronger.
"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are." - Bill Shankly

Offline slotmachine

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #92 on: May 27, 2018, 11:19:36 pm »
No time to mope. We need a bit of retail therapy from FSG, Klopp and our recruitment team in the next few weeks because when the world cup starts it could limit our negotiating time. International managers wont let players leave for talks, medicals, etc. Lets crack on and get all our new players in for the start of preseason and let Klopp and is coaching staff work their magic. Fekir and Alisson before the world cup would be a nice start Mr Edwards to give everyone a big lift. Its great to know we have another 60 plus games of this manager and this football to look forward to next season.

Offline U-238A

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #93 on: May 27, 2018, 11:46:17 pm »
Wholeheartedly agree.

On the squad-depth thought. Context and common sense needs to be used when we discuss this subject. The same can be said to any rival fans/mates who talk trash about our current manager/squad. Remember, we've been practically mid table for almost a decade. We used to sign the likes of Konchesky, Poulsen, Lambert, Balotelli...

This isn't a game of FIFA18 or Footy Manager. Klopp's been here for 2 summers only. If you're expecting he build an almost completely new first 11 and also have 7 quality backup bench players also, you're dreamin'. That's nigh on 15 players, all to be successful signings that are EPL winning/challenging, UCL finalist level quality? It doesn't even happen whether you're splashing 200m net a season either. Ask Mourinho how it's going. It took Man City 4 seasons to build (translated: buy with limitless money) a squad capable of winning it. And 6-7 years ago, the competition wasn't as great as it is now.

8/11 of our current first 11 were not our first 11 in October 15. Mane's been here 2 seasons and has been boss. Salah's been here for 1 and is a record breaker. Trent had his first full season in the EPL and Robertson was a championship level player and neither look out of place. Ox was an Arsenal reject and has had less than a full season and is looking great. Gini has been here 2 seasons and is/has been a perfectly fine squad player all season. Milner's a fine utility/squad player. Firmino is genuinely world class now. Lovren has improved dramatically. VVD has had half a season and is looking genuinely world class. Hendo is our captain - and in my opinion, has unfortunately improved (if any at all) the least of all. Karius was/has been solid until last night (I won't get into this discussion here).

We're close. Next season will be a great season one way or another.

Offline scouse neapolitan

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2018, 12:15:09 am »
Another positive has been the total professionalism, and generally extremely positive behaviour of the likes of Mignolet and Moreno. They've been a credit and can only have helped the atmosphere  in the dressing Rooms.

Offline woof

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2018, 12:43:33 am »
Klopp proves he can cut it with the best. Now it's FSG that needs to support him & go all out to bring back the premiership after almost 2 decades.

We need a stronger bench since we're playing CL again, plus a new goalie and a CB of VVD's ilk.

Offline stonecold_jpm

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2018, 01:58:06 pm »
Not sure where to put this having not long arrived home after 8 flights and well over 30 hours of travelling and waiting around at airports in the last few days. Tired, shattered and broken pretty much BUT even though it’s cost a fortune I wouldn’t change anything of it (except the result of course!) the whole occasion and what I seen out there in Kiev was a joy to behold and something I will remember for the rest of my life. From the singing and dancing in the bars and on the streets stopping the traffic the day before, to the park on the day, with the young and the old, fans from all over far and wide, all there in their thousands, to chatting and having a laugh, a sing and plenty of beers with them all. All the banners and flags everywhere, to the Ukrainian people helping us out and making us all feel welcome. To dressing up the media guy on camera in a red shirt, scarf and hat, and onto the stadium where I was in tears with thoughts of my dad who passed away at the end of last year and should have been there with me and then to our Jurgen had turned all those doubters into believers until the very end we fell. Let all the other teams fans enjoy their singing about another team like they all do in our country, maybe one day they might all realise it’s all about singing about your own team and getting behind them, that is what inspires them. This one video I uploaded is my favourite from the last few days and I believe it captures all that I say about our truly magnificent club and fans:
https://youtu.be/jg1ZbiQW09I
Heads up high Reds, Naby’s coming! WE WILL RISE AGAIN!
YNWA

Offline Alf

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2018, 03:05:23 pm »
Think of where we are now opposed to the end of the 14/15 season, 3 years ago. Fans, players and manager together as one.

Offline glasgowred17

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #98 on: May 28, 2018, 03:15:37 pm »
Personally, this season has been the most enjoyable for many many years. A combination of a top 4 finish and a champions league runners up medal is something I would've taken at the start of the season. Now that everyone knows how draining a long season could be, and also with Klopp obviously looking to bring in 3-4 top quality players, I am really optimistic that we will win a trophy or two next season. in fact, I never believed we could actually win a trophy over the last 10 years (but for the UEL game against Sevilla)  as our line up and squad had always been second best compared to what the likes of Man Utd, City, Chelsea or Arsenal had to show. We seem to be inching closer and closer with every season and hopefully with a few quality additions, we should be able to do it.

Offline Dench57

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #99 on: May 28, 2018, 04:09:56 pm »
Devastating to fall at the last but it doesn't feel like a flash in the pan as the 13/14 run did. As long as we've got Klopp we'll go from strength to strength each year I think. No reason we can't push for the title and go balls deep in the CL again next year.
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #100 on: May 28, 2018, 07:56:46 pm »
This team is getting stronger every year and unlike other young teams who've had big seasons in recent times, it won't be broken up any time soon and we have the money to strengthen. I also think this game will give Klopp a much clearer idea of which parts of our team and overall game need strengthening. Next time we'll have the bench and the variety to compete head to head against the Real Madrids of the world.

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #101 on: May 28, 2018, 08:58:40 pm »
We were genuinely one of the best teams in the world this season.  So we got done by a couple mistakes and a shithouse hobbling our player?  It doesn't make the effort and the performances go away.

We have grown into something special with Klopp and we are only getting stronger going forward.  The players seem to love it here and for the first time in years it seems like the club, the staff, the manager and the players are all pulling in the same direction

Man city this season were supposedly the best side in football history...yet we not only matched them, we destroyed them.  Now we need a bench, now we need consistency and the trophies will come.

The future is bright guys.  We're at the end of a storm.

Offline mercury

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #102 on: May 29, 2018, 03:27:00 am »
Super proud of the football in the first 20-30 mins of the game.  Beautiful, superb football  -- this said everything about this season, our progress under Klopp and the backroom team.

We will become better.   

Offline El Ninos Black Eye

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #103 on: May 29, 2018, 08:48:16 am »
First time I’ve been on here since the game. Avoided the negativity, Plus was travelling from early hours Sunday till yesterday.  But this a great time to be a red. Result apart I wouldn’t change anything about the trip me and my lad have just had over to Kiev and back. They had their biggest high since 1995 on Sat but the come down has been quick and the realisation has started to set in. The realisation that the red aren’t devastated (disappointed yes), the realisation that we are signing players and bouncing straight back. They can’t get their heads around the fact in defeat we are still buzzing, as we’ve just had the time of our lives and it’s boss being a red.  They now have to create and agenda, poor team spirit as the players left Karius. They never, watch it again they are pretty much all on their own at the final whistle. When players do go over to him he’s none responsive as he wants to be alone. Gini pretty much also said this. As for the death threats, you’ll always get dickheads  Agenda’s like the petition, fuck that petition most reds have scoffed at it. Look at the names on it they are mostly Egyptian.  Wonder why that is?🤔 And like the Egyptian lawsuit too. There heads have absolutely gone because the whole of the Ukraine and a the rest of the world fell in love with us again with that show of support   They’re gutted coz there wasn’t any trouble, no tickets getting robbed. Just lads getting drunk, singing songs and having a great time. Boss being a red!!!
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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #104 on: May 29, 2018, 08:58:27 am »
Season ending game 2014 / 2015 season 6 - 1 defeat to stoke.

3 years later top 4 and a CL final. How many of us saw that coming? We've also not done it without a sugar daddy.

I sound like a broken record but Klopp had two full seasons with Dortmund before he moulded them into what he wanted.

A nauseating defeat but we're building a juggernaut here.


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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #105 on: May 29, 2018, 09:21:54 am »
If youd offered finishing 4th and a cl final at the beginning, I think we'd all have grabbed it. Was a terrific season.

Were gonna smash it next season and win everything. Fuck it. Why not?
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Offline redk84

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #106 on: May 29, 2018, 09:56:31 am »
Mixed here...

I have faith in what we're doing as a club at the moment with Klopp....and I can see how we are improving and that there is a clear plan.

I have memories of seasons after a run at a major trophy being quite flat.

Have to believe that it will be different this time around (as what has happened in the past shouldn't dictate what happens in the future) but what does fill me with a bit of confidence is that:

2014 - PL runners up
2015 - FA cup semi finals
2016 - Europa and CC finals
2017 - CC semi finals
2018 - CL final

We've changed managers/players but have still got close to silverware. Last 3 years under klopp....can say that it is a mental thing now whereby we fail at the final hurdle.

But if we keep putting ourselves in positions to win we will eventually do it. just have to keep going.
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Offline LFC_NCL

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #107 on: May 29, 2018, 10:06:44 am »
this team has been a pleasure to watch this season, im one proud and happy liverpool fan

Offline Hymer Red

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #108 on: May 29, 2018, 07:24:17 pm »
The rest of the PL fans wanted us to be suicidal after our defeat, they expected it they were ready to gloat. Just about now they will be realising that we are nowhere near that. Disappointed yeah sure, but thats all. We have a massive future coming right up with Jurgen in charge and the owners looking like they will back him with the signings he wants. We are Liverpool and we know where we want to be. We have the backing in place to get there and soon we will have the players as well! Cant wait for next season, its gonna be a great ride.
This Klopp fella, hes not bad is he?

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #109 on: May 29, 2018, 07:41:50 pm »
The rest of the PL fans wanted us to be suicidal after our defeat, they expected it they were ready to gloat. Just about now they will be realising that we are nowhere near that. Disappointed yeah sure, but thats all. We have a massive future coming right up with Jurgen in charge and the owners looking like they will back him with the signings he wants. We are Liverpool and we know where we want to be. We have the backing in place to get there and soon we will have the players as well! Cant wait for next season, its gonna be a great ride.
Rival fans are completely nonplussed by how quickly we've bounced back - they're slowly starting to realise that it's because we know that reaching that final was just the beginning of a magnificent journey that we're on.
Oh, and the Fabinho signing has them choking on their oats

Offline macksmate

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #110 on: May 29, 2018, 08:12:14 pm »
I watched the game with my son ( 14 ) at Anfield. Although gutted myself i was more concerned with how he had taken it, trying to keep upbeat and put a positive spin on things , he will learn like we all have along the way, have to have the lows which ultimately make the highs so good.  The next day we chatted about some of the highs and both agreed Man City home in the league was like nothing else, the atmosphere, Mane`s  rifle of a shot into the top corner , Salah taking Edersons misplaced clearance in his stride and majestically lashing it in. We left that game on cloud 9 and more, dad and lad buzzing to get home and watch all the reaction on Sky sports, waiting up to watch MOTD. These moments , to me , mean more than a silver cup stored in a museum anyday. Yes i know winning cups is what we aim for but its far more than that. Reading through your stories from kiev , the fan park etc will never be forgotten . Under Klopp and his style of football , we will experience more that i am 100% sure about . Its slowly taking shape , we will be a force next season and we all know it .

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #111 on: May 29, 2018, 10:49:04 pm »
Rival fans are completely nonplussed by how quickly we've bounced back - they're slowly starting to realise that it's because we know that reaching that final was just the beginning of a magnificent journey that we're on.
Oh, and the Fabinho signing has them choking on their oats

We realise that we are building a team. Others just want to sneer.

Offline E2K

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #112 on: May 29, 2018, 10:59:33 pm »
Whatever Fabinho ends up achieving at Liverpool, it genuinely makes me smile that the club has moved with such decisiveness to make this happen so quickly after the disappointment of Kiev. It feels like a concerted effort to look immediately to the future, which is of course what any successful football club should always be doing, and calls to mind the stories of how Ronnie Moran would supposedly walk around Melwood at the end of each season back in the day, no pomp, no ceremony, just a box of medals for anyone lucky enough to have earned one. And then on to the next campaign, the next piece of silverware, never dwelling on the achievements of the past, always looking forward.

It’s also a reminder that previous performance is no guarantee of anything in a world teeming with talented footballers of all ages and abilities, which is as it should be. With the arrivals of Naby Keita, Fabinho and the club’s well-documented interest in Lyon’s Nabil Fekir, Liverpool may yet conceivably start the 2018/19 season with an entirely new midfield to the one which led them to the Champions League final months earlier. For any successful football club, the past surely serves primarily to produce lessons on which future victories can built — given that the sum total of Jürgen Klopp’s substitutions in that final necessarily consisted of 2 players with a combined 30 minutes of football between them in two months, he will surely be looking to take every step possible to ensure that similar issues don’t recur again, and sentimentality will be a luxury that he can ill-afford.

It’s different for the rest of us. Supporters are entitled to appreciate yesterday, to dwell for a little while on memories of past glories. That’s how you create tradition. Nights like Porto, City, Roma, and the excitement of the build-up to Kiev, those experiences can’t and don’t exist in a vacuum, to be unceremoniously disposed of based on the result of a single game. Anyone who tells you they do is best ignored — they’re either liars or they have no heart, maybe both. These are memories to keep you warm, not only next to the fires in which they are forged but on those barren days when the possibility of more such moments can suddenly seem impossible. Ideally, I would say that the two perspectives belong together and accompany each other perfectly — I’m looking forward to next season already, but I won’t be forgetting 2017/18 in a hurry.

Alongside the cultivation of tradition, there is also narrative in the past that can help to explain the present and light the road ahead. Some of the best football writers appreciate this and often use that backward-looking focus in their analysis (their happy, bone idle cousins, football pundits, tend to rely only on what is happening now, which helps to explain why they typically have nothing of note to say — no context, no frame of reference, just a flat-earth, two-dimensional perspective).

One currently unfolding scenario that a glance into the recent past may help to both explain and predict is why, in the last 2 years, players like Sadio Mané (from Southampton), Mohamed Salah (Roma), Virgil Van Dijk (Southampton again), Naby Keita (RB Leipzig) and now Fabinho (Monaco), players who may form the spine of the team for years to come and some of whom have already made quite an impact on both English and European football, have chosen to join Liverpool, at this point in their careers and at this moment in history, when other clubs offering perhaps an easier route to success were allegedly courting them. To fully understand the reasons why, I think you need to go back to the last time the club systematically built a team of world-class talents, to the last time it had a world-class manager, and to the last time it reached a Champions League final.

In the 3 years between 2004 and 2007, Liverpool signed Xabi Alonso (from Real Sociedad), Pepe Reina (Villareal), Daniel Agger (Brøndby), Javier Mascherano (West Ham) and Fernando Torres (Atlético), all of whom collectively went on to comprise, alongside Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, the rock-solid spine of Liverpool’s best Premier League season (it took Ferguson’s greatest ever team to beat them to the title in 2009). For a period in Liverpool’s history defined by the club’s financial inferiority relative to its closest rivals and regularly pockmarked by manager Rafa Benítez’s (often public) frustration at its inability to close deals in the transfer market, that’s a remarkable collection of talent right there. Assembled inside 3 years, remember.

And those players had a couple of interesting things in common, aside from being goddamn good: they were all young when they signed (23, 23, 21, 22 and 23 respectively) and they were all ambitious. They had all enjoyed relative success elsewhere e.g. Mascherano had won League titles in Argentina and Brazil, and both he and Torres had made an impact for their countries at the 2006 World Cup, Alonso had been a key part of Sociedad’s 2002/03 campaign which had seen them finish runners-up in La Liga, and Reina had just finished 3rd with Villareal. But what they wanted to do now was take the next step in their careers, to win silverware and compete for club football’s biggest prizes on a consistent basis. Regardless of what happened subsequently, they believed that Liverpool was just the club at which to do that.

And in some respects, it was: Alonso picked up a Champions League winners’ medal pretty quickly and four of them were on duty when AC Milan narrowly won the rematch 2 years later in the midst of a run which saw the club reach the knockout stages of club football’s preeminent competition for 5 years in a row. Domestically. three of them left Anfield with FA Cup winners’ medals, and they were all there for the 86-point campaign in 2008/09. But realistically, their time at the club probably didn’t work out the way they wanted, certainly not in terms of silverware: excluding the Community Shield (the equivalent of a pre-season friendly), the 5 of them left the club with a collective haul of 7 major winners’ medals to their names, and both Mascherano and Torres went away empty-handed.

What happens next is impossible to predict with any accuracy, but what we can say is that Liverpool’s newest signing, linked with PSG, Atlético Madrid and Manchester United in recent times, is likely to be following the same thought process that players like Alonso, Reina, Agger, Mascherano and Torres followed before him. The same could be said of Van Dijk (linked heavily with Manchester City before choosing Liverpool) and Naby Keita (ditto with Barcelona). And like the others before them, Mané, Salah, Van Dijk, Keita and Fabinho have all signed for the club relatively young (24, 25, 26, 23 and 24 respectively).

The Brazilian is a young man who has certainly achieved some high-profile success in his career already — he has been capped for Brazil, no mean feat in an of itself, won Ligue 1 with Monaco and formed an important part of the side that reached the Champions League semi-final in 2017, knocking out Manchester City along the way. But with the bones of that team virtually picked clean by the vultures of Europe shortly thereafter and their main rivals (PSG) annihilating them 7-1 in April, he has clearly decided that he needs to go elsewhere to realise his ambitions. That he has chosen Liverpool, regardless of whether club and player eventually go on to achieve real success together, is significant and an indication of the exciting time and place in which the club currently finds itself.

Many of us, myself included, have pointed the finger at FSG in the past for not sufficiently supporting their managers in the transfer market, be it financially or, most frustratingly of all, not getting deals over the line for critical players at crucial times, losing out to rivals for the likes of Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal), Willian (both Chelsea and Tottenham), Diego Costa (Chelsea again) and, once upon a time, Mo Salah (you guessed it, Chelsea). And at times, through no direct fault of theirs, key players already at the club decided that domestic adversaries gave them a better chance of winning than Liverpool did — Luis Suárez once tried to leave for Arsenal, Raheem Sterling forced a move to Manchester City.

To be fair to the owners, it's hard to attract the best to a club that's drifting, as it was for their first number of years, much less keep them for the long-term. But now it’s going the other way — players are starting to line up at the Shankly Gates. I’ve mentioned that Fabinho, Van Dijk and Keita were all courted by other big clubs before signing for Liverpool, but what of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain leaving Arsenal for Liverpool and snubbing Chelsea on the way? Setting Europe alight this past season clearly helps, as we saw in 2005 and 2007; 3 cup finals in under 3 years also helps to build the profile of a serious football club; the presence of other big players, including one who has begun to be spoken of in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo, helps too — who wouldn’t want to play alongside Mo Salah? Most of all, and this is not meant to be disrespectful to any of FSG’s managers since their arrival in 2010 (except for Roy, obviously), but the world’s best players want to work with Jürgen Klopp in a way they simply didn’t with his predecessors.

And it builds like a tsunami, this perception of the club as a contender, as a force, as a place to win trophies and medals. It strengthens with every top player signed, every high-profile opponent slain, and the hope is that such a perception becomes self-fulfilling, fuelled by the arrival of top players who see the arrival of other top players and the presence of one of the world’s best managers as something they want to be a part of. And then they contribute to the very success they covet. Then more come, and more, and a club already far more financially competitive than it has been at any time during the Premier League era hopefully makes it to the latter stages of the Champions League again, and again, and again, and bolsters its own coffers with the mind-boggling prize money on offer for not even winning it. And if Liverpool were to win it, shit…

Hey, it might not work out like that. The major signings began to rapidly fall away after 2009, in large part due to the financial stranglehold of Hicks and Gillett, but perception also matters and it quickly began to look like Liverpool weren’t contenders anymore. Alonso, Mascherano and Torres all left inside 2 years, and both Reina and Agger started to decline. None of them were replaced with equivalent quality, and by 2011 the club was over-spending on painfully average domestic signings like Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing and Charlie Adam. It seems like a long way from there to here, where a player like Coutinho can force his way out and the club barely breaks stride.

So a massive welcome to Fabinho. With the momentum now building behind Liverpool, I can’t see him being the last high-profile arrival this summer and beyond, and I don’t think he’ll live to regret his decision. The future is brighter than it's been for a long time.
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Offline redk84

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #113 on: May 30, 2018, 07:46:59 am »
snip

Excellent stuff.

Some good points to keep in mind over the summer as i spend less time on here and more time focusing on other things.....come August tho, will be ready again.
Next 2 seasons are massive imo for Klopps tenure here (in terms of what he'll ultimately achieve) let alone some of the players. Huge couple seasons coming up for this football club.
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Online 1892tillforever

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #114 on: May 30, 2018, 08:20:55 am »
Lots to take away from this season and some important lessons to be learnt on and off the pitch. Squad needs greater strength in depth, some are coming, others are needed. Trent and Robbo have youth on their side and will have taken on loads from the experience. Midfield does need work, Keita will help but more to be done. Same for central defence. Cover needed upfront too but the attack has proven it is a match for anyone.  GK is an issue, but we knew that before last night.

Had no interest in the World Cup before last night. Now I have on two fronts; firstly to see Salah show the world just what a player he is (the opportunity was taken from him last night), second, we have the chance that see Ramos end his career in front of a world stage. Have held a soft spot for Spain since Rafa's days and our Spanish contingent. Now I want some yard dog, any yard dog, to do for Ramos in a way that rids his type from the game for good.

Plenty to look forward to then, if there's any justice in this world.
Egypt could play Spain in the round of 16; if Egypt finish second and Spain finish first in their respective groups for example. I wonder if the Pharaohs have anyone in their ranks that would give Ramos a good hiding if he so much as looks at Mo? :D

Offline OOS

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #115 on: May 30, 2018, 07:07:37 pm »
Rather have a 60m player as squad depth, and when injuries and fatigue hit we can rotate and keep the same high standard than play a fringe player or kid and wonder why we dont win any trophies.

First time in my lifetime, weve got a excellent first 11 and we are building a world class squad to compete. Every time we have got close weve sold our best players and bought utter shite as replacements. Again, first time in my lifetime it looks like we are taking ourselves to the next level. Exciting times.


Posted this in the Fekir thread. Now, I've been sceptical about the direction of the club at a board / owner level but the last week has put a lot of skepticism to bed. I was annoyed Coutinho left, because all my life i've seen us get close to building something and our top players leave and we go backwards. However, the arrival of Fabinho and hopefully Fekir, and no top players leaving is a break from Liverpool tradition of the last 25 years.

This is the first time we have got close to winning something, and building on it. 2002, we came second and then bought shite and finished 5th. 2009 we finished second, then lost Hyypia, Alonso and Mascherano to replace them with averageness. 2014 we came second again, then lost Suarez and then Sterling to replace them in a piss poor fashion. Now we have finished runners up, top players staying and we are addressing problems. A top defensive midfielder coming in, links to Fekir who I think would be fantastic for us.

It's exciting times.
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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #116 on: May 31, 2018, 05:00:37 pm »
No time to mope. We need a bit of retail therapy from FSG, Klopp and our recruitment team in the next few weeks because when the world cup starts it could limit our negotiating time. International managers wont let players leave for talks, medicals, etc. Lets crack on and get all our new players in for the start of preseason and let Klopp and is coaching staff work their magic. Fekir and Alisson before the world cup would be a nice start Mr Edwards to give everyone a big lift. Its great to know we have another 60 plus games of this manager and this football to look forward to next season.

I have a bit of a different take on the optimism (which I share, no mistake about it) we have about next season and after, and it's about our current Manager Steward, Herr Klopp.

I have spent most of my working life in a corporate environment, and a bit in the military, and one of my observations over the last 40 or so years is that there are "Managers", and there are "Leaders".  Some Managers are good at their craft, but are terrible Leaders.  And there are some Leaders who really aren't good Managers; rare, I know, but nonetheless it happens.  Obviously, there are people who are piss poor managers and couldn't "lead" a Scout Troop across the street.  God knows I have several in my organization now, and we've experienced Hodgson, but I digress.

What we have in our midst right now is that rare person who can both Manage AND Lead, and make his charges want to go to battle through hell for him.  We all know it, and see it, but I think needs to be highlighted (again) as something special (even though he is the "Normal One").  We are truly gifted and I'll say blessed to have Jurgen at the helm.

Can't wait till the pre-season....

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #117 on: May 31, 2018, 05:12:55 pm »
The weird thing is, I don't even think we need this thread.
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #118 on: May 31, 2018, 05:58:16 pm »
Rival fans are completely nonplussed by how quickly we've bounced back - they're slowly starting to realise that it's because we know that reaching that final was just the beginning of a magnificent journey that we're on.
Oh, and the Fabinho signing has them choking on their oats

I think there's a lot of things rival fans just don't get. We live in a world where the journey is not valued and not seen as important. We live in a world where the only thing that counts, it seems, is the moment of triumph. That fleeting moment that only a few ever get to taste is seen as the only worthwhile experience. Everything else is seen as pointless and a failure. But what people forget is that progress and ultimate triumph come via a process. A process of learning through experience. To eventually succeed you have to experience failure. If you learn from that failure, then it is not failure at all, because it becomes hard-earned experience, and experience is crucial to progress. In essence, you cannot savour the taste of eventual success unless you are prepared to make mistakes and are prepared to learn from them.

What Liverpool are doing now is learning and growing via experience. We are getting stronger all the time. Losing to Madrid did not invalidate everything that went before it in the run to the final. We will learn from it and grow from it. Another thing that is often lost on modern society is the ability and/or willingness to live in and enjoy the moment. This season we lived in the moment, and my god, doing so can really enrich life. We extracted every ounce of enjoyment out of what were magical matches, magical build-ups and some amazing experiences that the fans of most clubs will never, ever, see in their lifetimes. Yes, we lost the final, but the overall experience was stunning. We really did see things many others will never see. That, in itself, is priceless. Others may laugh, but we have memories most will never be able to have.

Bounced back? Well I think much of that comes via perspective. This club has come through so much. Genuine tragedies and genuine traumas. Six months ago I also lost my dad and another person I love. I watched both die in the space of two weeks. Losing a major final hurts, but life has also taught me perspective. We take things on the chin and we have to move on as best we can despite our pain. I think our fanbase generally has perspective. So do LFC and so does Klopp. We know we are on the up. We know we are no shithouse side so afraid to lose that they won't try to win. We are Liverpool, and we will risk spectacular failure in the service of trying to gain the spectacular win. This club is bringing joy, pride and excitement back to the community it serves, as well as all those things to its wider fanbase across the world.

Despite our defeat in Kyiv, there is very little to be negative about now when it comes to LFC. We are only at the start of our rise, not the end. There is so much more to come, but I think opposition fans can see this too, hence how they relish trying to shoot us down. It's their fear that's showing, really. A Liverpool back on the rise terrifies the life out of them. This Champions League Final came early for us. I don't think we expected to be there this season, but our development has exceeded expectations. We just didn't have enough on the night and the bit of luck you need to win went Madrid's way and not ours. We will be back, though. Better equipped. More experienced. Stronger. It won't be smooth, though. It never is.

We may not be going into summer with big ears in the cabinet, but I'm going into summer with a big smile on my face because I know we are back and we aren't going away any time soon.

The Reds really are coming up the hill, boys...

They all better get used to it!  :scarf



« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 06:16:40 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: Chin up lads -- post-CL Context & Positivity
« Reply #119 on: May 31, 2018, 06:03:03 pm »
snip
Great post mate, and sorry to hear about your loss. I'm glad that the football is giving you some happiness - ultimately, that's what it's there for.