Topic: Steven George Gerrard of Liverpool and no longer England

[fowlermagic]

While his cameo as an attacking CM was great to see, the realistic view on it all esp if, its a big if still, but if we don't challenge this season then I nearly expect SG to hang his boots up. I doubt if the lad will labour on if he does not think we can win a title or play in the CL but even if he continues to play next season we still have to plan for the future and bring in his replacement / bolster the midfield quality asap. That additional quality may even eek out another season from him but he will hit empty pretty soon if he still has to be the one to raise the game in the centre and surge forward chasing games.

[robgomm]

Shot conversion isn't entirely the same as finishing as doesn't account for the quality of the chances but here are the figures for our squad last season.

Lambert was 9.7% (10 from 103 shots) when excluding penalties.

Premier League average is around 10%

Bit OT but we were freakish on set pieces weren't we? Is this season a regression to the mean, if that's the right term?

[B0151?]

I wonder whether Gerrard being used further forward would be an in-game response to him being pressured in the holding role.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Shot conversion isn't entirely the same as finishing as doesn't account for the quality of the chances but here are the figures for our squad last season.

Lambert was 9.7% (10 from 103 shots) when excluding penalties.

Premier League average is around 10%

That's very interesting, thanks for the stats!

Sterling has much to prove in that department.

I take it back, 20%, you go Raheem!

[BassTunedToRed]

Bit OT but we were freakish on set pieces weren't we? Is this season a regression to the mean, if that's the right term?

We were beyond freakish! We scored 26 set-piece goals which was a PL record for the period from 2009/10 onwards (which is as far back as such records go). Top teams tend to average around 12 per season, so yeah, we appear to be regressing to the mean so far this season.

[Homo rubrum]

Now then, check out this ultra-strict but still ridiculously awesome all-time 25-strong matchday squad of one-club men!! I've only allowed players originally from the local area (so no Messi or Giggs, for example), who never supported another top-flight rival club (no Carra or Tony Adams then... if they could even get a look in, that is!), and never played for any other professional club even in their youth career:

Uwe Seeler           
 (Hamburg)               

Surely you didn't mean such disrespect to Cork Celtic. 

[Haemoglobin]

Surely you didn't mean such disrespect to Cork Celtic.

Ah shit, I had absolutely no idea.

Why the fuck would you play one solitary match for them twats Uwe? You've ruined my whole post now, and your legacy. Get out of my squad!

[Clint Eastwood]

Henderson - Allen

Lallana - Gerrard - Sterling

Sturridge

Think that could work very well.

That makes me feel fuzzy inside.

Seeing Gerrard set-up behind the striker reminds me of his old Rafa position. He's not bad now by any means but my god he was fantastic in that position. I don't know if he has the athleticism to play that position in a Rodgers team but it's with a pop. He could rotate with Henderson, or maybe act as more of a support player allowing Lallana and Sterling to work their magic.

[Redcap]

That makes me feel fuzzy inside.

Seeing Gerrard set-up behind the striker reminds me of his old Rafa position. He's not bad now by any means but my god he was fantastic in that position. I don't know if he has the athleticism to play that position in a Rodgers team but it's with a pop. He could rotate with Henderson, or maybe act as more of a support player allowing Lallana and Sterling to work their magic.

I think during a course of a game, there will be times when speed, athleticism and stamina will be called for - the start of each half for example, where we try and score quickly.

There will be other times though, as this season is proving, where we need a goal against a parked bus. On these occasions Gerrard probably adds more value than say, Allen further forward, and the two should probably switch it up.

[TomDcs]

Ah shit, I had absolutely no idea.

Why the fuck would you play one solitary match for them twats Uwe? You've ruined my whole post now, and your legacy. Get out of my squad!

Pretty decent lad called Finney on the bench to take his place.

[robgomm]

We were beyond freakish! We scored 26 set-piece goals which was a PL record for the period from 2009/10 onwards (which is as far back as such records go). Top teams tend to average around 12 per season, so yeah, we appear to be regressing to the mean so far this season.

Insane number. I had thought pre-season that we will score fewer goals this season because of that (though maybe we will pick up again) as well as Suarez. Not few enough to fret about though.

[steveeastend]

Sterling has much to prove in that department.
Gerrard used to be lethal, but I haven't seen much of it lately.
Lambert was one in two for Southampton. I know it's only Southampton, but still. I maintain a striker has to be a better finisher than a midfielder, otherwise the midfielder would be the striker.

I was very critical on Gerrard in the holding role, actually I think he is useless there BECAUSE he offers this very top quality only few players in every country are able to offer in terms of pure talent to make use best in an attacking role. And this talent puts them above any okish striker like Lambert who is, to be honest, an average striker.

[Halcyon Lissome]

We were beyond freakish! We scored 26 set-piece goals which was a PL record for the period from 2009/10 onwards (which is as far back as such records go). Top teams tend to average around 12 per season, so yeah, we appear to be regressing to the mean so far this season.

Hi mate, fan of your writing. Really interesting stat. Have you looked at writing article projecting how much we're likely to score this season, comparing to last year's rather anomalous numbers?

[Red Genius]

I wonder whether Gerrard being used further forward would be an in-game response to him being pressured in the holding role.

I think that's undeniable, he was getting nullified and his ability on the ball is a fabulous asset - so i think its a given, Brendan saw this and thought 'can i mix it up a bit' - it has been confirmed that he'd been working on that role in training for 10 days prior to the West Brom game, which tells you it was decisive and pre-meditated.

The most significant point was - it worked. It threw the opposition and Gerrard expressed his ability. These ney sayers, are cup half empty folk, i thought it was bold and will cause opposition to reconsider their game plan not knowing where Gerrard will pop up.

[Fowllah]

Against the baggies, I think it was more of a case of seeing what happens when we play one up top - which is Rodgers' preference when Sturridge is out - and we get Gerrard up there to provide a spark and create something. One of the midfield will drop into Gerrard's place, possibly Allen.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I was very critical on Gerrard in the holding role, actually I think he is useless there BECAUSE he offers this very top quality only few players in every country are able to offer in terms of pure talent to make use best in an attacking role. And this talent puts them above any okish striker like Lambert who is, to be honest, an average striker.

Was he useless there last season when we came second? We've seen him play in many positions throughout his career and frequently excel.

I'm not trying to denigrate Gerrard, I'm really not. He's been a force of nature. I just can't get behind the idea that he is a better finisher than someone who has spent their entire career as a striker.

I agree that Lambert is basically an average striker, not arguing at all on that count, there is a reason he's third choice. But the post I initially replied to invoked Gerrard as a better finisher. When do you see him slotting one home in the six yard box? Or generally, even much inside the penalty area at all? I know he hasn't played that far forward since 2009, but despite having fantastic technique, finishing is not at a striker's level, otherwise he could have played as one. And despite all the positions he has played in his career, striker is not really one of them, is it?

Not trying to say Lambert is superior at any other aspect of his game. Gerrard is obviously a million times better at all the other tasks required of a footballer. Not saying Gerrard is inferior as an attacking force either, I wasn't questioning that. But generally, Gerrard isn't the man on the end of moves, finishing them (neither is Lambert at the moment to be fair ). That was the only point I was replying to in the first place.

[Halcyon Lissome]

I agree that Lambert is basically an average striker, not arguing at all on that count, there is a reason he's third choice. But the post I initially replied to invoked Gerrard as a better finisher. When do you see him slotting one home in the six yard box? Or generally, even much inside the penalty area at all? I know he hasn't played that far forward since 2009, but despite having fantastic technique, finishing is not at a striker's level, otherwise he could have played as one. And despite all the positions he has played in his career, striker is not really one of them, is it?

Gerrard aside, there are many midfielders that are better than some strikers at finishing. I'd put Lampard and Gerrard very highly in that regard. Gerrard is definitely a better finisher for me than Lambert. IIRC Gerrard has actually come runner up once in a season for EPL goals.

[Wernerred]

When do you see him slotting one home in the six yard box? Or generally, even much inside the penalty area at all?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwQptzsiz2o

Not that long ago mate. Don´t think there´s many better strikers - headers of the ball than Gerrard. "Shame" he takes most of corners and free kicks so  he can´t be in the box at the same time. Stevies exceptional heading in our own box is a hint how good in the air he is, and one of the reasons I wouldn´t mind see his career being prolonged by playing as a centre-back/sweeper.

[BassTunedToRed]

Hi mate, fan of your writing. Really interesting stat. Have you looked at writing article projecting how much we're likely to score this season, comparing to last year's rather anomalous numbers?

Thanks very much. I haven't directly addressed how many we'll score, but I have written about some concerns I have along those lines. As this is heading off topic, I'll post about it here
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=311110.msg13302091#msg13302091

[BER]

Gerrard hasn't lost the ability to shoot, he just doesn't do it often anymore because he's getting older. If he had a chance in the 6 yard box he'd bury it every time.

He has lost the ability to shoot from distance. And he's never anywhere near the opposition penalty box. Which is a shame, as i agree he's probably our second best finisher. But anyone who suggested Gerrard playing further forward a season or two ago were told that he "didn't have the legs for it", which never made sense to me as playing #10 is a less demanding role physically than DM.

[Clint Eastwood]

I think during a course of a game, there will be times when speed, athleticism and stamina will be called for - the start of each half for example, where we try and score quickly.

There will be other times though, as this season is proving, where we need a goal against a parked bus. On these occasions Gerrard probably adds more value than say, Allen further forward, and the two should probably switch it up.

Fair enough. We've seen when Coutinho plays behind the striker, his long distance shooting can be poor at times. Think I saw somewhere (maybe in this thread), he had 94 shots last season, scoring only ~7? I'm not sure whether Gerrard still has that lethal shot in his locker but I wonder if he would be capable of putting away chances like those in, as you say, games where we need a goal against a team parking the bus.

[Haemoglobin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwQptzsiz2o

Not that long ago mate. Don´t think there´s many better strikers - headers of the ball than Gerrard. "Shame" he takes most of corners and free kicks so  he can´t be in the box at the same time. Stevies exceptional heading in our own box is a hint how good in the air he is, and one of the reasons I wouldn´t mind see his career being prolonged by playing as a centre-back/sweeper.

Were it up to me, I'd have the likes of Coutinho on corners most of the time, or maybe someone like Moreno (haven't seen them take enough to know who's the best candidate for whipping it in, can only go on general consistent crossing ability). Ste can stay on widish free kicks if he wants, but when we lack height in the side he should be in amongst it in the box, and when we lack sharpshooters he should be lurking just outside.

[red1977]

Henderson - Allen

Lallana - Gerrard - Sterling

Sturridge

Think that could work very well.

indeed. losing a player with suarez's ability is a big loss. moving non other than Steven Gerrard up into the final third gives un a world class attacking preseance up there again (yes even if he is 34).
If teams are coming to anfield to park the bus and ping us off on the counter, then what is the point of having a deep lying playmaker? who are those long passess going to be aimed at exactly?
Gerrards passing ability will help us to play through a packed opostion further up the pitch
Also he is leathal on the second ball with those shots. I think if he is played there all season he would perhaps score 20 league goals. including penalties. its not un thinkable is it?
Alan and Hendo will offer much more energy in a more withdrawn position on the pitch when we dont have the ball, against west ham they just waltzed through the middle into space in front of the back four, put 2 energetic midfilders where gerrard is and this would stop all together.

[karpatonni]

How would Gerrard do as CB? He played there when players got injured and we were out of substitutes or when players were off the field for 2 minutes with an injury. Don't throw stones, I am just asking.

[Glass Kites]

How would Gerrard do as CB? He played there when players got injured and we were out of substitutes or when players were off the field for 2 minutes with an injury. Don't throw stones, I am just asking.

I've thought this too for a few seasons. I reckon he could do it, and do it well too. But I can't see it happening as the need isn't massively there and he's doing a good job where he is now.

[BassTunedToRed]

I think if he is played there all season he would perhaps score 20 league goals. including penalties. its not un thinkable is it?

I think that's a bit optimistic - he 'only' got 16 in 2008/09 when still at the peak of his powers, and has only hit double figures in the league four times down the years. I'd say 10 is a far more realistic target.

[Anywhichwayicant]

Goodbye thread.

[SP]

Closed as we aren't doing individual player topics any more.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=317166.0