Topic: The Level 3 Thread

[Vulmea]

Eh? I either don't understand the first sentence, or don't understand how you got that from my post.

Call me a pessimist, but I think Rafa's future is rather more precarious than it seems many on here do. A win today will hopefully sweep that aside and set us on a run of better form; but a bad defeat could be very, very damaging for Rafa and the club. Consequently I think he's in a position where he can't afford any mistakes at the moment. I think I used the words "unfair" enough times in my previous post to make it clear that I don't think he should be under such pressure. But I think he is.

Apologies as I said I struggled with it - if a lynch mob forces him out it'll still cost the club £20 million thats probably the biggest protection he has - it would also potentially further de-value the club making it doubly unattractive to the owners - even if he walked he's got plenty of evidence to claim constructive dismissal - potentially disasterous for us - any new manager would potentially start with no budget and many of the players wanting away with everybody else knowing its a fire sale

one strawdog scenario however - would we let rafa be lynched if it forced the owners out?

With the team struggling for confidnce does rafa play safe take minimal risks, stick with the basics or does he encourage us to go forward and score more than we concede?

[Uhoh AureliOs]

A couple of good articles I read this morning that I thought would be worth linking to for others to read, they seem to sum up our situation perfectly:

"Like a gambler who develops a system and knows he needs to stick with it even through a bad run, Benitez perseveres."

Rafael Benitez: Conflict facing a balance sheet manager

Both good reads in my opinion. (won't post them in full as they're quite lengthy)

[redmark]

Apologies as I said I struggled with it - if a lynch mob forces him out it'll still cost the club £20 million thats probably the biggest protection he has - it would also potentially further de-value the club making it doubly unattractive to the owners - even if he walked he's got plenty of evidence to claim constructive dismissal - potentially disasterous for us - any new manager would potentially start with no budget and many of the players wanting away with everybody else knowing its a fire sale

one strawdog scenario however - would we let rafa be lynched if it forced the owners out?

With the team struggling for confidnce does rafa play safe take minimal risks, stick with the basics or does he encourage us to go forward and score more than we concede?

I've been thinking about several (unhappy) scenarios. Remember, these don't have to make complete sense to the footballing intellectuals in this thread: this is about Hicks and Gillett. One is that paying out £20m might be thought 'profitable' if replaced by a manager prepared to sell Torres for big money, spending maybe half of it on a few 'seasoned pros' to battle for 4th and CL qualification. Another is a guilt trip on Rafa - if you love this club, recognise that it isn't working but don't hold us to ransom for £20m - because if you do, we'll have to sell players: mutual agreement, maybe a £5m payoff.

On the last sentence, in my view we have to try and attack our way out of this slump. Certainly we need to defend better, but not by being more defensive.

[redmark]

Just to expand on that last bit with regards to today's game, Rafa does take gambles. He's shown more than once he's happy to take gambles with players whose fitness is in doubt, to tinker (in the best meaning of the word) with players and formation even when we're playing well.

I half expect - probably because I want to see it - something different today. I've said already, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Voronin behind Torres today. He's probably less affected than most by any current negativity, having barely been on the pitch. He does have some qualities hidden there somewhere. He's a different option. Perhaps even give Babel that behind-the-striker role he's apparently so convinced should be his. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Kuyt on the bench for once; of course his energy is invaluable, but I think he's been lucky that defensive frailties have obscured his poor form; in my opinion, probably the most out of form of any player not in defence at the moment. Also a fresh Kuyt from the bench upfront in the last 20 minutes or so might be preferable.

I wouldn't even be entirely shocked to see Aquilani play today, even starting the game. If he played 15 minutes for the reserves, the staff are confident he is physically ok. Certainly lacking in match practice and a gamble, but adrenalin could see him through this game. Might be a better one that against Arsenal's athletic kids in midweek and with a bit of confidence (and Gerrard fit) probably not so needed at Fulham next week.

[lionel_messias]

I was going to talk abou the manager but I don't think I will now ...

Today would like to a couple of things happens to get us to a level two type performance:

*Press them high up the pitch, want to see the likes of Vidic and Evra harried and closed down really quickly-obviously
this is a massive game for Mascherano to show his "A" game

*We've heard this week how we actually defend set pieces with a combination of Zonal and man marking; lets see that work has gone in on the training pitch; let everyone do their jobs for a big improvement here.

*Really want to see the likes of Benayoun and Kuyt getting closer to Torres when we are attacking, he has needed better support this season, though let's hope he murders Vidic on his own like OT last year.

*Want to see quick passes exchanged between Masch and Lucas, and for Lucas to keep us ticking over and get involved with helping out the front men with 1-2's and dare we say it: some shots on goal!

*A wall of noise supporting the team.

*3 Points please, I don't care if the ball goes in off Martin Tyler's monkey!



 

[royhendo]

I met my Auntie yesterday - 71 years old I think she is - long time Red and former season ticket holder. Her words: "It's slit your throat time - I'll be watching it behind the sofa through my fingers.".

The managerial debate is moot, surely, because the yanks couldn't afford to sack Rafa and his team.

Cards on the table though. When Real sack him, as is inevitable, I have to say I'm an admirer of Pellegrini.

Sad we've begun to steel ourselves to the possibility.

[royhendo]

Oh, and Carl2782 - welcome mate.

[redmark]

Cards on the table though. When Real sack him, as is inevitable, I have to say I'm an admirer of Pellegrini.

I do want to get away from the subject, but remember we're discussing this in terms of owners who know little and are going to be swayed, if at all, by the more simplistic punditry and journalism. If they do sack Rafa at some point, I don't think they'll go for someone like Pellegrini. It will either be a really high  profile foreign manager - Mourinho, Hiddink, etc - or a youngish British manager with some media backing - the usual suspects.

[royhendo]

All I said was I like Pellegrini. He ticks all the boxes in terms of the supposed Liverpool way (in my view).

[redy]

The one thing I want to say is that the mancs tried to combat the pressing with high energy/ physical/getting stuck players like Fletch and Park in one game ( the first I think) and in the 4-1 I believe they tried to go with more of a footballing side to combat the pressing. Neither worked at all and I think thats the major worry for Ferguson.

[hassinator]

the weekend starts here... SUPER REDS!

[b_joseph]

Thats what I wanted to see. Fuck pretty football, get up and into them from the get go and make it a battle of men. Who wants it more on the day.

And by Christ we wanted it more than they did. Bring this effort in every facet of the game day in and day out. Fucking come on Liverpool.

[abhred]

Fucking amazing. The high after an absolutely depressing few weeks. And a clean sheet.

We were incredible. Pressed United out to death.

[nocturnalvin]

boy did we battle. We fucking kicked them all over the place.

[redy]

The same as last season. They just couldn't cope with the pressing. Just as last year. I think Benitez has got Ferguson's number at least here seeing as he has been outplayed in 3 consecutive matches.

[josemisuncle]

Who else is pissed that our 18m attacking full back is sitting a la Arbeloa to prevent one of our CHs being exposed to 1 on 1s?  Today is like the 4th or 5th game where he's not been involved going forward.

[No666]

Most pleasing aspects of a very pleasing day: clean sheet; Lucas - he did what I've been willing him to do and had begun to think he was too young to effect yet. Where is hbhr? The guy deserves his 'i told you so' moment today.

[lionel_messias]

Today would like to a couple of things happens to get us to a level two type performance:

*Press them high up the pitch, want to see the likes of Vidic and Evra harried and closed down really quickly-obviously
this is a massive game for Mascherano to show his "A" game

*We've heard this week how we actually defend set pieces with a combination of Zonal and man marking; lets see that work has gone in on the training pitch; let everyone do their jobs for a big improvement here.

*Really want to see the likes of Benayoun and Kuyt getting closer to Torres when we are attacking, he has needed better support this season, though let's hope he murders Vidic on his own like OT last year.

and

*3 Points please [snip]

Well that was it!

Great performance from the team, hard work, pressing, outshining them in midfield, lovely movement from Yossi again, and a fantastic finish from Torres followed by a super cool one from David N'gog.

This shows we can do it, absolutely no criticism of the performance today, brilliant to beat them and get us thinking positively again. Next step for us now is we have to find a way to sometimes rest and rotate the likes of Yossi, Dirk, Nando and others to keep us fresh all season...

Let's Keep it up 

[Eeyore]

Who else is pissed that our 18m attacking full back is sitting a la Arbeloa to prevent one of our CHs being exposed to 1 on 1s?  Today is like the 4th or 5th game where he's not been involved going forward.

You mean exactly the way Evra one of the most accomplished attacking full backs in world football did for them.I am glad he is learning some defensive discipline under Rafa something Moureen couldn't manage at Chelsea.

[abhred]

Who else is pissed that our 18m attacking full back is sitting a la Arbeloa to prevent one of our CHs being exposed to 1 on 1s?  Today is like the 4th or 5th game where he's not been involved going forward.

The fact that he did well sitting back shows why he's worth the money we paid.

[josemisuncle]

The fact that he did well sitting back shows why he's worth the money we paid.

Yeah I know, but it seems a shame to blunt such an offensive weapon.  Today you can understand given who we are up against, but we seem to have sacrificed him as an attacker.

[Degs]

What was great today was that our best performers were the ones who have, rightly so, come in for stick recently.
Carragher, Lucas, Insua, and Aurelio have all been really poor in the last 3-4 weeks and today each and every one of them stepped it up a gear.

Special mention to Lucas because I get on his case for not having the drive, desire, passion whatever you want to call it to break free from defensive midfielder to box to box midfielder and today he won headers at the back, made tackles in the midfield, and played 2 excellent passes ot the front men.   The Lucas brigade will be made up but to be honest they do as much harm as the people who constantly berate him.  When people come out and praise Lucas' performances against Sunderland, Chelsea etc. then when he has a cracker like today or against Stoke nobody will listen, it's a case of crying wolf and nobody will listen.  As it is now Lucas can take all the praise he gets this next week and hopefully when he does it encourages to play like this more often, a true box to box midfielder.

[liverbnz]

What was great today was that our best performers were the ones who have, rightly so, come in for stick recently.
Carragher, Lucas, Insua, and Aurelio have all been really poor in the last 3-4 weeks and today each and every one of them stepped it up a gear.

Special mention to Lucas because I get on his case for not having the drive, desire, passion whatever you want to call it to break free from defensive midfielder to box to box midfielder and today he won headers at the back, made tackles in the midfield, and played 2 excellent passes ot the front men.   The Lucas brigade will be made up but to be honest they do as much harm as the people who constantly berate him.  When people come out and praise Lucas' performances against Sunderland, Chelsea etc. then when he has a cracker like today or against Stoke nobody will listen, it's a case of crying wolf and nobody will listen.  As it is now Lucas can take all the praise he gets this next week and hopefully when he does it encourages to play like this more often, a true box to box midfielder.

I don't recall anyone praising Lucas for his displays against Chelsea or Sunderland. I think everyone was more or less in agreement that he was pretty poor (offensively) in both. Most of the people that do defend him, are usually doing it as a reaction to the abuse that he gets, a lot of it just regurgitated, ill-informed media opinion.

I didn't think Insua was that great today either. Made some poor decisions when he got forward and needed Aurelio to bail him out once or twice. United clearly targeted him though, and he is still relatively new, so learning.  Rafa was spot on with his selection of Aurelio left wing.

[hassinator]

I didn't think Insua was that great today either. Made some poor decisions when he got forward and needed Aurelio to bail him out once or twice. United clearly targeted him though, and he is still relatively new, so learning.  Rafa was spot on with his selection of Aurelio left wing.

i thought insua did well up against a very pacey opponent who didn't get that much out of him.  yes it helped having fabio in front of him but that set up will also offer more going forward with insua able to overlap. 

i thought lucas was boss today.  he was involved all over the pitch and absolutely not intimidated in the middle of the park.  he has been described as tentative in the past but he's shaking it off and his pass to kuyt deserved a better finish - i could imagine yorky groaning at that one.

still a most excellent cap to the weekend.  the build up to this game has been really rather stressful but with city and arsenal - they look porous at the back - both dropping points things have worked out rather well in the end.

now time for a curry.

[Yorkykopite]

i thought lucas was boss today.  he was involved all over the pitch and absolutely not intimidated in the middle of the park.  he has been described as tentative in the past but he's shaking it off and his pass to kuyt deserved a better finish - i could imagine yorky groaning at that one.

I didn't groan really. What I did was what I always do when Dirk gets the ball in a promising position. I put my head down so I didn't have to see what was coming next. If you expect nothing, you never get disappointed.

But a terrific fight today from the boys. Benayoun is turning into a really magnificent player. He scares opponents. It was noticeable how much Man Utd's defenders backed off him when he got the ball. They'd clearly been told by Ferguson not to sell themselves. It backfired eventually when Yossi collected what was (let's face it) a pitiful pass from Dirk for our first. A tight defender would have snuffed out the chance as soon as Kuyt's pass went astray. But their defence was scared and backed off. Mind you I still don't think anyone saw the pass until it happened. You can't beat that kind of thing.

Just wish the lad would strike the ball early sometimes when in front of goal. That chance in the second half should have been buried. Again, it was Vidic who sat off him and gave him room to pull the trigger. But Yossi decided to take him on instead and got robbed. Vidic simply wasn't close enough to be fooled by the characteristic drop of the Yossi shoulders that time. Should have HIT it.

Anyway, the obvious conclusion is - Yossi should start every game (even after he's had a relatively bad one). 

[hesbighesred]

Most pleasing aspects of a very pleasing day: clean sheet; Lucas - he did what I've been willing him to do and had begun to think he was too young to effect yet. Where is hbhr? The guy deserves his 'i told you so' moment today.

You rrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang?

[hesbighesred]

I was saying similar elsewhere. I thought Kuyt had a poor game today too, that pass was poor - though to his credit he ended up with absolutely key involvements in both our goals.

Spot on about Benayoun though - that was just a peach of a pass, and he was massive in the second half - just seemed to get on the end of so many loose balls and then drive at the Manc's heart, was a precious, precious outlet when we were under pressure, and did almost nothing wrong all game, except the moment you mentioned.

But, as I said elsewhere, if his finishing confidence (not needing that extra touch all the time) was up there with his other attacking qualities he'd easily, easily be a £30million + value player, and even that would perhaps be under-rating him slightly at today's prices. Just a class act and grown from a player we're glad to have, to a player we're almost screwed without.

You can't even say today's performance from him was exceptional - it's almost what we've come to expect week in week out. What a buy for £5.5 million. Oh, sorry, that can't be right because apparently (according to Hansen and today's Observer) Rafa never buys anyone good for under £10million.

Another player you champion who also can't possibly have cost under £10million who was immense for us today was Agger. Like Alonso, his composure is infectious - fuck his attaking for the moment, he is our best defender without doubt, and just his presence made a massive difference when we were under the cosh. It's wonderful to see him back, and looking really fit and, well, like the player we had a few years ago basically.

[Degs]

I was saying similar elsewhere. I thought Kuyt had a poor game today too, that pass was poor - though to his credit he ended up with absolutely key involvements in both our goals.

Spot on about Benayoun though - that was just a peach of a pass, and he was massive in the second half - just seemed to get on the end of so many loose balls and then drive at the Manc's heart, was a precious, precious outlet when we were under pressure, and did almost nothing wrong all game, except the moment you mentioned.

But, as I said elsewhere, if his finishing confidence (not needing that extra touch all the time) was up there with his other attacking qualities he'd easily, easily be a £30million + value player, and even that would perhaps be under-rating him slightly at today's prices. Just a class act and grown from a player we're glad to have, to a player we're almost screwed without.

You can't even say today's performance from him was exceptional - it's almost what we've come to expect week in week out. What a buy for £5.5 million. Oh, sorry, that can't be right because apparently (according to Hansen and today's Observer) Rafa never buys anyone good for under £10million.

Another player you champion who also can't possibly have cost under £10million who was immense for us today was Agger. Like Alonso, his composure is infectious - fuck his attaking for the moment, he is our best defender without doubt, and just his presence made a massive difference when we were under the cosh. It's wonderful to see him back, and looking really fit and, well, like the player we had a few years ago basically.

Totally agree there.
Thought Kuyt wasn't very good but he's vital in games like this because we win these through work-rate, because he never stops it means their players can't abandon their positions and get forward.  He's never narky, never sulks, never moans: there's managers who'd klill to have a team of Kuyts.

Benayoun has come on leaps and bounds since the beginning of last season, totally different player.  Today that pass could have come from Xavi or Iniesta (he's not as good as them but when he's on top form he's unstoppable).

Insua I thought was good, he allows quick movement of the ball in the final third, he never gets flustered and his short passing allows the likes of Benayoun, Aurelio etc. to go inside and find the space.  Going back he had a handful with the 20 million pound Valencia but even so he stayed up well and outmuscled him on a fair few occasions.  His performance today was in the style of an Ashley Cole or an Evra rather than a Zanetti.

Agger was a mountain today and started the move off well 2 or 3 times, Carra needs to realise he can simply play the ball along to Agger more often rather than hitting and hoping.

We totally dominated them in midfield, Scholes and Giggs looked the old men they are and Carrick was non existent.

[redy]

Totally agree there.
Thought Kuyt wasn't very good but he's vital in games like this because we win these through work-rate, because he never stops it means their players can't abandon their positions and get forward.  He's never narky, never sulks, never moans: there's managers who'd klill to have a team of Kuyts.

Benayoun has come on leaps and bounds since the beginning of last season, totally different player.  Today that pass could have come from Xavi or Iniesta (he's not as good as them but when he's on top form he's unstoppable).

Insua I thought was good, he allows quick movement of the ball in the final third, he never gets flustered and his short passing allows the likes of Benayoun, Aurelio etc. to go inside and find the space.  Going back he had a handful with the 20 million pound Valencia but even so he stayed up well and outmuscled him on a fair few occasions.  His performance today was in the style of an Ashley Cole or an Evra rather than a Zanetti.

Agger was a mountain today and started the move off well 2 or 3 times, Carra needs to realise he can simply play the ball along to Agger more often rather than hitting and hoping.

We totally dominated them in midfield, Scholes and Giggs looked the old men they are and Carrick was non existent.

That was the key. And I don't think it would have been any different had Fletcher/ Anderson or anybody else played. And the huge worry for them is this is not a one off. He hasn't had an answer to Benitez since last year has he?

I thought Insua had a tough time. Not his fault, coz he was indeed targeted but I did feel he had a tough time. Aurelio helped him out and they managed to cope between the two of them.

Other than the fight in the whole team, Torres' piece of magic, and the brilliant pressing of the midfield + Kuyt I thought Agger was the next biggest reason for the win.

[bigbear]

That was the key. And I don't think it would have been any different had Fletcher/ Anderson or anybody else played. And the huge worry for them is this is not a one off. He hasn't had an answer to Benitez since last year has he?

I thought Insua had a tough time. Not his fault, coz he was indeed targeted but I did feel he had a tough time. Aurelio helped him out and they managed to cope between the two of them.

Other than the fight in the whole team, Torres' piece of magic, and the brilliant pressing of the midfield + Kuyt I thought Agger was the next biggest reason for the win.

We out-worked them today as we did at Anfield last year. When that happens the Scholes's/Giggs can't influence games. Kuyt is pivotal to that albeit he lacks quality.

I loved it in injury time though when Kuyt won a big tackle on Evra, the lads were really digging in today and got their just rewards.

Very very pleasing for Lucas to set up the winner as he is a player who needs moments like that to get recognition. I thought he was great today, showed real strength and fitness in getting about them.

Only Insua was off the pace really.

[scatman]

well well what to say lads, brilliant from the midfield, thought Masch and Lucas were brilliant in tandem, one would fly in win the tackle and the other would pick up the pieces, shame we didnt score more, thought Aurelio played brilliantly on the left wing, distributed some great passes. Dirk should have done better today but worked his arse and caused loads of rash decision making from evra and co. Yossi what a pass, as mentioned above as good as any Iniesta/Xavi/Fabregas pass, just wish he'd shoot early sometimes! Having the Dane back is great, absolutely ice cool in defence, and less hoofing.

Last but not least, Mascherano please stop fucking shooting!

[redmark]

i thought lucas was boss today.  he was involved all over the pitch and absolutely not intimidated in the middle of the park.  he has been described as tentative in the past but he's shaking it off and his pass to kuyt deserved a better finish - i could imagine yorky groaning at that one.

Lucas was superb, though that particular pass was a foot or so behind where it should have been to let Kuyt take the shot more quickly. He was excellent defensively (succeeded in winding up the United in-law I was forced to watch the game with) and really positive going forwards. Shame his chance didn't come a little later, might have had a bit more confidence in putting his foot through it.

I thought Insua started a little nervy, but got better as the game went on - helped not only by Aurelio, but I think Agger too. He was superb defensively today and Carragher suddenly looks a bit more like himself again - a crunching tackle inside the area in the first half with just enough of the ball, perhaps fortunate to stay on when 'brought down by Owen' . Can't think of a poor performance - Benayoun was excellent, Mascherano showing some commitment again and even quite a funny (and unlucky) sending off. I think people are being a little harsh on Kuyt; not exactly our best player, but a vast improvement on recent form. Torres looked really up for it from early in the game and at one stage I thought was working his way across the back four to try and get them all on a yellow.

[redmark]

Last but not least, Mascherano please stop fucking shooting!

Oh, agreed: unless it's to knock Ferdinand off his feet every time .

[hesbighesred]

To be fair to Kuyt, I thought he looked knackered, but to be even more fair to him, that's not the first time I've thought that and it isn't the first where, when other's legs are going with 10-20 minutes to go, Kuyt seems to get a second wind. He was quality in that spell today and shows why Rafa almost always keeps him on - I was hoping he'd be subbed off for Babel or Voronin much sooner, but his impact in the end was more than I'd expect of either of the two replacements I was calling for.

[redmark]

It seems the ongoing discussion about what sort of player Lucas "is" is still largely based on what people think he isn't; his positives are assumed as the opposite of perception of his weaknesses, rather than really having been demonstrated. Some think he's an attacking midfielder because he's not a strong tackler (and still gives away too many silly free kicks). Some think he must be a defensive midfielder, because he does little going forward. Some assert he's box to box, based only as far as I can see on him being a little more mobile than Alonso. I think a point in the article and his own words is closer to the mark - he's a water carrier.

At the moment, not a particularly notable one. But that I think still appears to be more of a mental issue than a physical or technical one. He does have some ability, but perhaps isn't quite driven, confident or sharp enough to make the most of it. There's no reason why he can't be more influential. It's often said that he always tries and never hides, but there is more than one way of hiding. I don't think he goes looking to influence a game as much as he might. At the moment he could be a decent water carrier for a few years, a useful member of the squad. If he's capable of more than that, it's up to him to show it (and perhaps, want it).

He certainly did that today. I thought (from his defenders, not the detractors) he wasn't old enough to boss a game?

If the formation we were starting to talk about a couple of pages ago is right, then it looks like Lucas in the immediate future can comfortably be first backup for all three roles (which could mean playing very regularly), if he's playing like that. Will need to adjust to the required role of course, but I've not doubted his intelligence or ability.

Longer term... Mascherano's performance gives me some hope he's not imminently bound for Barca, but if he is, quite happy for us to let Lucas make the role his own rather than spending £20m (like we'd be able to) on a replacement. Perhaps almost a waste in the deep role if he's going to play like this more consistently, but I don't think every DM has to be as one-dimensional as Makelele. No reason why he couldn't venture forwards occasionally and one of the others be aware and fill in.

Cracking (MOTM) performance, really pleased for him. As said in the Lucas thread, hopefully this is as much a catalyst for him as for the team.

[Degs]

Longer term... Mascherano's performance gives me some hope he's not imminently bound for Barca, but if he is, quite happy for us to let Lucas make the role his own rather than spending £20m (like we'd be able to) on a replacement. Perhaps almost a waste in the deep role if he's going to play like this more consistently, but I don't think every DM has to be as one-dimensional as Makelele. No reason why he couldn't venture forwards occasionally and one of the others be aware and fill in.

I said a few pages ago that although Seydou Keita is 29 I'd take 20-30 million + him.
He's a defensive midfielder and scored a hat-trick tonight.

I don't want to under-rate Masch's performance but he's got one of the easier positions on the pitch and there are plenty of players who can do that job should he decide to leave and we have 30 million to play with.  Unfortunately though we'll only have 20 million to spend in the summer (at best) everything else is pocketed by the owners.

[redmark]

Going to post this here because, well, it's my favourite thread. We've taken a lot of crap from journalists this week (not least in the Guardian), but I think this is one of the best opening lines to a piece I've read in a while:

If every game were a life-or-death moment for Liverpool, they would probably turn out to be immortal.
Kevin McCarra.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/25/liverpool-manchester-united

[Franck Le Poof]

I don't want to under-rate Masch's performance but he's got one of the easier positions on the pitch and there are plenty of players who can do that job should he decide to leave and we have 30 million to play with.  Unfortunately though we'll only have 20 million to spend in the summer (at best) everything else is pocketed by the owners.

True. And if the off-the-pitch stories about Masch are true then I think Rafa's as good a man as any to find us the right replacement for Mascherano. Just like he found Sissoko, just like he uncovered Masch, he'll find us the next defensive midfielder that'll be colossal for us.

[Niru Red4ever]

Going to post this here because, well, it's my favourite thread. We've taken a lot of crap from journalists this week (not least in the Guardian), but I think this is one of the best opening lines to a piece I've read in a while:

If every game were a life-or-death moment for Liverpool, they would probably turn out to be immortal.
Kevin McCarra.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/25/liverpool-manchester-united

Saw in one of the reports today
'Liverpool finds itself a corner and then manages to wriggle out of of it' or something like that. Made me laugh

[killer-heels]

Yeah I know, but it seems a shame to blunt such an offensive weapon.  Today you can understand given who we are up against, but we seem to have sacrificed him as an attacker.

He will get more than enough opportunities to attack constantly when we play the teams that we struggled to beat last season at Anfield. That is partly the reason that we bought him.

Against better teams and at times of need, we will need our full backs to demonstrate that they can be more restrained and defend well. Plus when/if we are losing, we always have this opportunity.