@Noct:
4 points off the top, with our two best players played together less than half the games, working under the types of crippling off pitch issues that have caused other clubs to crumble, and that Fungus and Wenger have never even been close to facing, and only a small dose of these kind of issues caused Chelsea's form to nosedive and Mourinho to walk.
Of course he's good enough.
Who could do better? Really? The only managers I would actually back (and I don't mean I want them here, just that they'd be capable of it...) to come in, inherit this side and see us through to the title are maybe Capello and Mourinho. I don't see anyone else that comes with anything approaching that kind of likelihood of success - juuuuust possibly Hiddink - though the FA cup last season is also the only major trophy the man has won in absolutely years, and his teams have struggled whenever he's signed his own players - he seems to excel at dealing with players but not at club building.
So go back to the two I mention. One thing they have in common in terms of trophies at bigger clubs - MONEY. Never have they had to work from a position of real disadvantage (at bigger clubs, or course Mourinho took Porto to the CL, but I suppose in their own way they are a very big club too, they give a domestic platform and the CL is not expected of them - it's pressure Mourinho didn't have, he's never even reached a CL final under the sort of pressure he'd have here), they've never come into a top job and been told there's no cash, sell to buy, etc etc etc.
I can't stress enough how big an issue the off pitch crap is, especially when talking about belief/confidence. It's an epic Godzilla behemoth on steroids of an issue. Did any of you have a really shit time at home growing up? I don't mean periods of hardship, I mean where you really saw home as something you were desperate to escape, a parent or two where when they weren't around for whatever reason you actually felt free? I did, and this strikes me as sooooo similar.
We put some good results together and it's like when I had a really ace time with my (relatively few) mates. For a while, all was right with the world, had fun, had a laugh - but I still had to go home. As soon as the night was over, depression was never far away. Our form towards the end of last season was almost like the best night out ever - just great crack, a night you think will never end. Hell, we even got the number of that gorgeous girl we've fancied for ages and never had the balls to ask out, we go home, for once, in the highest of spirits. Then summer comes/the parent gets back in - and they pull the typical move familiar to anyone who's been in that situation. They say/do/don't say/don't do exactly the right thing to make you feel like utter shit again. In this case, they tell us no pocket money - you're grounded for going out, so we can't go and see that wonderful girl.
We end up feeling like we've missed the chance, we end up feeling worse than we ever have, even though it's really just the same old shit. It NEVER gets easier to cope with. You NEVER learn to deal with it - you escape or go mental, that's pretty much it. Whenever I get down about LFC in terms of Rafa and the players, I have to remind myself of that - look at Jol in his last season - a quality manager who'd have taken them to the CL with backing, and could only manage relegation form with a quality side. Wenger's Arsenal had a terrible patch of form when there was a BIT of take-over shenanigans - the kind of shit that wouldn't even be noticed here.
As a poster a few above said, for other clubs blips in form are just blips - they have a nice home to go to. Hell, even Abramovich is a bit of a twat, but in many ways a supportive one. Ours is a proper, full on broken home, so when things go shit with our mates (a bad performance) we don't even have a home to go too.
I think it is just possible to transcend that - but it takes a run like last season, of enough good displays in a row that fans jump on the bandwagon too. That's the equivalent, to us, of a kindly uncle with a spare room we can move into - not much, but enough to give us that precious gift of space, of freedom from 'opression' if you like.
@Redmark - agree with a lot of that post but I can't agree on injuries. Injuries and bad luck are not exactly super-fresh herrings (that's the ownership debacle, that's a herring that can outswim an Orca in it's freshness) - but they're not red herrings either, no way. I'd call them roll-mops, I reckon. You point to the Fiorentina game. Well, may I remind you of our midfield that day, and that it was an injury to Mash which forced our hand?
Then, when we need a decent result after the break - what do we get? One of 'those' breaks, where everyone who could get injured DID get injured (almost) - plus a big healthy dollop of horrific luck against Sunderland and Lyon too (one a clear non-goal allowed, one a clear goal disallowed).
To continue the parent analogy, I can also vouch that such luck seems to happen more when you can't escape it - when what should be your sanctuary, your foundation is actually the root of your problems.
The more I see this happening at our club, and compare it to previous regimes, the more I realise that Robinson was the real unsung hero of our success - he was every bit as important as Shanks/Paisley/Dalglish, and it's no coincidence whatsoever that our decline started when he left/retired (forgive me I'm not sure which it was).
Look at the difference at City between Shinawatra and the new Arab owners - they know their shit in terms of backing the manager, and you can see that the squad has a happy home their, helped of course by generous pocket money, but they've got good parents too, as far as I can see.
There's an alternate reality where a Benitez led, DIC owned Liverpool are dominating football and an alternate Kop where the glory days are well and truly back. Sadly, we're living in this reality where DIC where fucked off for 30 pieces of silver, and were too proud/arrogant themselves to return until far too late (and it staggers me they came back in, the bastards could still have outbid G&H - who were always operating at their financial limits - for less than they offered on their return).
But oh well, there's no use crying over non-existent inter-dimensional dark-matter vortices, as they say.
@Several people -
Really good points on the height issue, I feel I've been put in my place somewhat. I would say @Yorky and Hank - but that's exactly what Rafa IS doing (IE more technical, less physical) and that there has to be a limit - there's a balance. I've seen a lot of sides chock full of technical players who have ended up utter shite because they neglected the dirty stuff. Arsenal have technique in abundance, and a decent amount of physicality, but simply don't do the dirty stuff. You're right that no team scores without the ball - BUT and this is a circular discussion from way back - HOW does one get the ball in the first place? With fit players, who can tackle, harass and work their tits off. Robinho is nice on the ball, but he does NOTHING to help you get it back, and the players who have both are hard to find and cost fortunes to buy - fortunes. a team of Messi's with 4 Vermaelen's at the back would get destroyed, absolutely destroyed in the longer term.
I'd also point out that for Yorky it's technical players 'carrying the can', where for me there's maybe some truth in that, but it's also true that we don't have many technical players with great stamina - though we've looked for them (Malouda, Simao, Alves etc). Kuyt and Carra also play week in week out because they are fit week in week out, and seem to be built out of a mixture of titanium and carbon fibre - especially Kuyt. Benayoun isn't, and tiredness makes even the best technician look like Kuyt on a bad day with a crippling hang-over, and also exponentially increases the risk of injuries to a squad that, while on paper I believe is good enough, is undoubtedly thin in places compared to our rivals. So, you could also say that resting/subbing the likes of Benny is also because we NEED them. We simply can't afford to leave Benny on for that last 20 minutes when he's already knackered and then have him snap a hamstring. If what you both said about physicality where the whole truth, Voronin and Riera would play a LOT more than they actually do, and Aurelio a lot less.
But you were both right about the height issue - I still don't dismiss it completely, but it was, well, a pink herring shall we say - leap, aggression etc all come into it (like Torres is a great attacking header but a poor defensive one, where Crouch was a very good defensive header, and Dropba is almost like a Hyppia for them).
One thing that staggers me is Man U - 0 goals conceded from set plays. Now, I know they defend them very well - they always have. Can't fault the arl soak for that, but 0 goals in 9 games? Sorry, but I'm putting my tin foil hat on now. I want to know how many dangerous free kicks they concede compared to other teams - because they certainly aren't any less dirty. I don't buy that stat is down to better defending - that's a refereeing/old trafford issue. Not just that of course - they still defend them well, but even a couple fewer edge of the box/side of the box free kicks a game would make a massive difference to their goals conceded there.
