Topic: The Post Office Scandal

[TSC]

More revealed.

I'd be amazed if anyone is held to account, over this:

Cameron government knew Post Office ditched Horizon IT investigation

David Cameron's government knew the Post Office had ditched a secret investigation that might have helped wrongly accused postmasters prove their innocence, the BBC can reveal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68146054

Cameron’s too busy traipsing about the Falklands, and whatever he’s up to there, only government knows

https://www.reuters.com/world/uks-cameron-visit-falkland-islands-his-first-south-atlantic-tour-2024-02-18/

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/david-cameron-s-visit-to-falklands-a-provocation-says-argentine-official/ar-BB1izkhf

[TSC]

The war of words continues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68357074

[Fortneef]

No apology necessary, @Fortneef. It is one of those situations where we all are agreed on the facts, so it really does come down to opinion. And since there is no ideal solution, I am not even sure of my own opinion.

Thanks for your magnanimity

I think what set me off was the fact that the Post Office are even now deliberately and dishonestly exaggerating the amount of real criminality in the pool of convicted subpostmasters in order to minimise the Post Office's guilt.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Thanks for your magnanimity

I think what set me off was the fact that the Post Office are even now deliberately and dishonestly exaggerating the amount of real criminality in the pool of convicted subpostmasters in order to minimise the Post Office's guilt.

I've not been reading about it. But that would come as little surprise to me after their serially appalling behaviour. There needs to be a criminal investigation of PO management and prosecutors.

[Red-Soldier]

A little known (and advertised) fact, is that the Horizon system was originally created for the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP).  However, they rejected it, due to flaws in the system.

[TSC]

Post Office knew its defence was false

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68663750

[stjohns]

This idiot, being questioned today, is taking the enquiry to a whole new level. In charge of the whole circus but didn’t know the PO instigated its own prosecutions. Also, he can’t remember any detail half the time.

[Yosser0_0]

I posted this earlier in another thread but it should probably be here really:-

One of the investigators had not provided a written witness statement so they sent round the Sheriff's with a Section 21 notice - which focused his mind! (I think he shit himself).
 

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/bxY76ZHosUI?si=eN-4SLB8PsEp1aoj" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/bxY76ZHosUI?si=eN-4SLB8PsEp1aoj</a>

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/12/section/21

[Riquende]

With Vennells about to appear I've seen articles the last few days along the lines of "How did this ordained woman of God preside over such injustice", as if it's not a baked-in feature of the seriously religious (as opposed to general church attendees)  that the things they believe (or "know in their heart to be true") are less important than the things that other people are telling them, regardless of the evidence behind it?

If she started with a conclusion of "I'm a good, Godly, person so I can't have been involved in any significant wrongdoing" then rather than seeking the truth, she would only have been seeking justification for her position... and then you basically have your answer to the premise of these articles.

[Jiminy Cricket]

With Vennells about to appear I've seen articles the last few days along the lines of "How did this ordained woman of God preside over such injustice", as if it's not a baked-in feature of the seriously religious (as opposed to general church attendees)  that the things they believe (or "know in their heart to be true") are less important than the things that other people are telling them, regardless of the evidence behind it?

If she started with a conclusion of "I'm a good, Godly, person so I can't have been involved in any significant wrongdoing" then rather than seeking the truth, she would only have been seeking justification for her position... and then you basically have your answer to the premise of these articles.

Or, the God is 'cover'. It is less common in the UK, but faux religiosity if rife in the US (not just in politics) and used as cover.

[Red-Soldier]

Surprised there isn't an infected blood scandal, thread. 

[Millie]

Surprised there isn't an infected blood scandal, thread. 

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=335962.msg15440715#msg15440715

[Ray K]

Vennels evidence going well today

@pkelso
Paula Vennells begins crying as she is asked why she told MPs that every conviction based on Horizon was safe. "Here we go", says one of the 150-plus subpostmasters in the room listening

Vennells: “I fully accept now that the Post Office [chokes, tears] excuse me. The Post Office knew that, I completely accepted. Personally I didn't know that and I'm incredibly sorry that that happened to those people, and to so many others.”



Honestly, she might be the worst person the UK has produced this century. And fuck knows, there's been a hell of a competition for that.

[So… Howard Philips]

Vennels evidence going well today

@pkelso
Paula Vennells begins crying as she is asked why she told MPs that every conviction based on Horizon was safe. "Here we go", says one of the 150-plus subpostmasters in the room listening

Vennells: “I fully accept now that the Post Office [chokes, tears] excuse me. The Post Office knew that, I completely accepted. Personally I didn't know that and I'm incredibly sorry that that happened to those people, and to so many others.”



Honestly, she might be the worst person the UK has produced this century. And fuck knows, there's been a hell of a competition for that.

And isn’t she a part time vicarette as well?

She be down on her knees soon prayin’ for the Good Lord’s Deliverance.

[Reflexivity]

The roof is leaking on the chairman. Who owns the building, the Glazers?

[Nick110581]

Vennells with fake tears when she would have known everything that was going on.

[rob1966]

Vennells with fake tears when she would have known everything that was going on.

Lying bitch

[oldfordie]

Vennels evidence going well today

@pkelso
Paula Vennells begins crying as she is asked why she told MPs that every conviction based on Horizon was safe. "Here we go", says one of the 150-plus subpostmasters in the room listening

Vennells: “I fully accept now that the Post Office [chokes, tears] excuse me. The Post Office knew that, I completely accepted. Personally I didn't know that and I'm incredibly sorry that that happened to those people, and to so many others.”



Honestly, she might be the worst person the UK has produced this century. And fuck knows, there's been a hell of a competition for that.

She's being evasive. she was accused of having a Wait and See defence, how she's waiting to see what the prosecutors know first as she only intends to admit to what comes out in the inquiry rather than helping the inquiry to find out any new evidence.
100+ prosecutions and she and senior management never knew about it.

She loves to ramble on to make people loose sight of the question, when pressed to answer the question she usually says I would just like to add so she can continue rambling, Jason Beers not having it. nope answer the question.
She's not going to come out of this well. evasive. not helping the inquiry volountry, only admitting to evidence already proven, her plea of not being aware of the prosecutions are hard to believe.

[thaddeus]

I expect Vennells has been rehearsing for this for a very long time.  The story about her pestering former senior management to fish for information and to try to head off an independent inquiry says a lot about her approach to the whole thing (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm5454yypxxo).

Any moments of apparent remorse or overwhelming sadness will likely have been pre-planned and acted out many times at her home in order to avoid certain questions.

Anyone following the inquiry will see these individuals for what they are but I'm sure that by the end of it they'll have succeeded in keeping themselves legally innocent of anything and everything.

[Red-Soldier]

Nobody will be held to account and punished (properly).  I'm pretty certain of that.

[Nick110581]

I expect Vennells has been rehearsing for this for a very long time.  The story about her pestering former senior management to fish for information and to try to head off an independent inquiry says a lot about her approach to the whole thing (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm5454yypxxo).

Any moments of apparent remorse or overwhelming sadness will likely have been pre-planned and acted out many times at her home in order to avoid certain questions.

Anyone following the inquiry will see these individuals for what they are but I'm sure that by the end of it they'll have succeeded in keeping themselves legally innocent of anything and everything.

She seems to be an appalling character but none of this surprises me.

I have seen stuff throughout my career where people protect themselves over others.

[Andy82lfc]

She's getting tied in knots here.

[Nick110581]

She's getting tied in knots here.

Rishi taken some heat off her

[SamLad]

after seeing many headlines over the months but glossing over them, last night I caught up with the Royal Mail - Mr Bates stuff.

wow.  holy shit. what a disgusting bunch of "human beings".

Bates is from Liverpool originally.  anyone know whereabouts?

[west_london_red]

Rishi taken some heat off her

She owes him big time!

[jacobs chains]

Rishi taken some heat off her

Meanwhile, in another corner of London, Paula Vennells couldn’t believe her luck. Her worst day at the Post Office inquiry had just been erased from the public consciousness. Much like her memory.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/22/cringing-in-the-rain-soggy-rish-kickstarts-his-farewell-tour

[Kenny's Jacket]

 It was nice to see the victims and their families watch that woman suffer in the inquiry

[Riquende]

Rishi taken some heat off her

It was an Act of Sod.

[Yosser0_0]

Nobody will be held to account and punished (properly).  I'm pretty certain of that.

Maybe but I think there is clear enough evidence that these Post Office lawyers have been lying on the stand, I saw the one where the lawyer claimed never to have received a document and could not 'remember' it. The inquiry presented evidence that not only had he received it but had also printed it out a few minutes later. I think he was shocked when presented with the evidence and moved to a defence of being non-technical, I was surprised to hear even lead counsel Jason Beer calling it out as a 'big fat lie' such was the strength of the evidence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1d4j5m3l08o

Of all the witnesses, the Post Office lawyers come across as the most dishonest, untrustworthy, calculating, evasive and misleading of all the witnesses. The defence of not being able to remember things when questioned under oath is clearly difficult to disprove and is obviously a planned strategy for all of them. So as I'm not being a legal expert I'm not sure what the threshold would be to prove either perjury or perverting the course of justice. I saw one lawyer the other day literally claim a defence of incompetence for not knowing the rules about evidence disclosure to the defence!

I think if nothing more the Post Office should lose the right to conduct their own prosecutions as there clearly isn't the checks and balances we see in place with the Police and CPS.

[Reflexivity]

Mr Henry KC used the term 'cloying managerese' when referring to Paula Flannels reports, which would have made his namesake O Henry smile I suspect.

[Andy82lfc]

Mr Henry KC used the term 'cloying managerese' when referring to Paula Flannels reports, which would have made his namesake O Henry smile I suspect.

Yeah at least this guy is giving it to her a bit more, good seeing her squirm.

I dare anyone to watch her deny some of this questioning and not have to turn off for the want of putting your fist through the screen.

She won't see a single day in jail for it either, where is the justice in that.

[RedSince86]

What a fucking Witch, they really turned the screw today on her.

Crocodile tears twice today, a Woman of the Cloth is what makes it even more astounding, she has no Empathy at all.

[Reflexivity]

What a fucking Witch, they really turned the screw today on her.

Crocodile tears twice today, a Woman of the Cloth is what makes it even more astounding, she has no Empathy at all.

As I commented above that cloth being 'Flannel' no doubt.

She has a touch of ginge about her and is a Manc from Denton.
Who else is from Denton why Mick Hucknall of course.

I had a girlfriend from Denton when I was a about 19, lovely girl and family were nice too except for the arl fella who was a Yernited fan, me being from L'pool didn't go down too well with the miserable twat.

[Nick110581]

This is brilliant article

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/22/rev-paula-vennells-innocent-subpostmasters-jail-post-office-ceo-victims

I genuinely can’t read too much about it as it makes me so angry. We have all worked for people like her though.

[oldfordie]

"You preach compassion but you don't practice compassion"