Topic: The Racist Russian Fanciers Party

[Red Beret]

Tory leader David Cameron ruled out an election pact with Ukip, insisting his party had to do more to persuade voters they were delivering for Britain
The main three parties' messages also are more similar than distinctive. All three share the blame, despite the recent economic upturn, for the country's continuing woes
The main three parties' messages also are more similar than distinctive. All three share the blame, despite the recent economic upturn, for the country's continuing woes

The old tactics aren't working.  The electorate is becoming increasingly fragmented.

[youll never walk alone it]

Of course  it will just turn an already right wing tory party further to the right,   nice picture of Farrage earlier signing  book of rememberance for  the old witch, as if we didnt  know what he really is.

[Rome-77]

Where did UKIP voters come from?
Conservativehome
Lord Ashcroft writes on the Conservativehome website about the results of his poll of 4,000 people who voted in the European elections. He focuses on those who said they voted UKIP. Here's a snippet from his article: "Just over half of UKIP Euro voters supported the Tories at the 2010 election. One in seven voted Labour, and a fifth were Lib Dems. As for next May, only half of them expect to stay with UKIP. One fifth already say they will go back to the Tories, one in ten will vote Labour, and 14 per cent say they don't know what they will do.

so that's them sorted

[The Fletcher Memorial]

These people go through all the health and safety procedures at their induction the same as I did, the problem is some of them don't even know what they're being told and can't even read the warning signs. It is our bosses fault that this is happening but, the government are letting them get away with it and people are getting pissed off. That's why some are voting UKIP because they are against uncontrolled immigration without even bothering to read the rest of the stuff the party stands for.

Labour have policies on the table to stop this practice going on, last time I checked. UKIP dont.

[The Fletcher Memorial]

What's perestroika got to do with it, got to with it?
What's glasnost, but a second hand political movement?
Who needs a proletariat, when a proletariat can demand free market liberalization?

haha 

[Solomon Grundy]

Labour have policies on the table to stop this practice going on, last time I checked. UKIP dont.

Good. I'm a labour voter anyway.

It just shows though, not all those who voted for UKIP are racists, they've just been misinformed.

[The Fletcher Memorial]

Good. I'm a labour voter anyway.

It just shows though, not all those who voted for UKIP are racists, they've just been misinformed.

Oh I agree mate.

[zebenzui]

Can someone give me a break down of UKIP`s policies? I`ve read the last three/four pages of this thread and the main points Ive taken from it are name calling, finger pointing and people shouting racist.

UKIP practically has no policies, Frottage has rejected their last manifesto, and their new one is a 12 page PDF, 8 of which are pictures or meaningless gibberish of 'real people' saying why they are voting UKIP. The biggest section of their manifesto is a two page 'I'm voting UKIP' poster - not even joking.

And of their 8 page European manifesto, literally 5 are pictures.

In lieu of anything on the UKIP website that would tell me what they profess to stand for, I am forced to refer to this year old article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22396690

My particular favourites are the flat-tax rate, the £77bn public spending cut, increase defence spend and the rejection of man-made climate change and same-sex marriage. They're pretty much Thatcher's own Ramsay Snow (if you'll forgive the Game of Thrones reference).

I hope this answers your question as to why UKIP are a 'party' deserving only of scorn and ridicule, and why anyone who voted for them are, as another poster put it, 'thick as pigshit'.

EDIT: Oh and you'll find a small section on their local manifesto devoted to branding Romanians criminals.

[Libertine]

And the bigots keep coming out of the woodwork....

Nigel Frottage is dealing with fresh allegations of racism and homophobia in his party only days after the local and European elections as Ukip was forced to launch an investigation into comments made by one of its newly elected councillors.

Dave Small, who was elected to Redditch borough council on Friday, faces being kicked out of the party for referring to gay people as "perverts" and African immigrants as "scroungers".

In comments posted on Facebook, he also attacked BBC broadcaster Clare Balding and singer Elton John over their sexuality and referred to "our sworn enemies in the Muslim world".

Stonewall's acting chief executive, Ruth Hunt, condemned the comments, saying Ukip would be "judged by the company they keep".

She said: "These reprehensible views have no place in modern Britain. We hope the party leadership reviews these comments as a matter of urgency."

A Ukip spokesman said the party's national executive committee would look into the posts and decide what action to take. Similar offences in the past have seen members kicked out of the party.

The spokesman said: "All Ukip members and councillors are expected to uphold the values of the party. Where there are allegations that that has not been the case, there is an established disciplinary procedure, which is under the auspices of the national executive committee. We will certainly look at this case."

The spokesman added that there were already "quite a few cases pending".

Small's Ukip colleague Stuart Cross, who represents Redditch South on Worcester county council, said Small was "not wanted" and should resign over the comments. He tweeted: "If the new cllr has said that. Then he gets no support from me. He should resign without hesitation as those views are disgraceful."

In a post on his Facebook account last June entitled Britain used to be for the British, Small wrote: "Our once great country has become the dust bin for all the world wide money grabbing scum."

He added: "Why on earth is this useless Goverment pandering to Puffs? I refuse to call them gays, as what has gay to do with Perverts like Elton John and Clair Balding who get their jollies in such disgusting ways. to sum up, they should not allowed to be married, they should go back to the closet."

In February 2013, he referred to gay people as "perverts" and expressed opposition to "poofs and dykes" being allowed to marry. And he predicted that "thousends mor scroungers" would soon arrive in the UK from Mali as a result of a range of coalition government policies.

Small also complained in a November 2012 post that he was not allowed to use the term "Paki". And, in June that year, he wrote: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas."

His comments are just the latest to cause problems for Frottage. In February this year, Ukip councillor David Silvester was kicked out of the party for saying that gay marriage was to blame for the storms that lashed Britain last winter.

Frottage himself faced criticism after insisting that people would be justified in worrying about Romanians moving in next door. And, in April, Ukip donor Demetri Marchessini told Channel 4 News that a man could never rape his wife because "once a woman accepts, she accepts".

Last week, BBC News' Jasmine Lawrence was removed from the corporation's election coverage after tweeting a derogatory comment about Ukip as the country was about to go to the polls.

The party made gains in the local elections, prompting Frottage to claim that the "Ukip fox is in the Westminster hen house". But the BBC's projected national share figure showed Ukip got less than the 23% it had in council elections last year. Moreover, the party does not control any local authorities.

Anti-Ukip campaigers Still Laughing at the UK Independence Party said Dave Small was "another example in a long list of Ukip candidates who, having just been elected as a councillor, reveals himself on Facebook as a racist and a homophobe".

Small did not respond to a request for comment.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/24/ukip-councillor-investigation-racist-homophobic-facebook-comments

[HarryLabrador]

And the bigots keep coming out of the woodwork....

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/24/ukip-councillor-investigation-racist-homophobic-facebook-comments

This is how they campaigned. The more extreme the exposure they get the more votes they get. Honestly, people who vote for UKIP are either extremely dumb or sadly racist or very likely both.

[johnsmithlfc]

This is how they campaigned. The more extreme the exposure they get the more votes they get. Honestly, people who vote for UKIP are either extremely dumb or sadly racist or very likely both.

Absolutely....all of this "yeah but it's ordinary people  who are fed up with Labour"  or "not everyone who votes UKIP is racist, some just aren't being listenened to"


Firstly by voting UKIP instead of Labour you're actually voting MORE extreme and Conservative than the Tories.

Secondly pleading ignorance is no excuse.
The stories about how Racist, Homophobic, Xenophobic & Misogynistic UKIP candidates are have been running for weeks...(actually months and years)..plus if you're voting for a party without doing research then you're an idiot.

So as others have put it.

You're either racist or thick as shit if you vote UKIP.
The ignorance plea won't work anymore, UKIP and their disgusting members/candidates have aired their views for all to see so if you ally yourself with these scum, you're one of those two things.

[jaffod]

Labour have policies on the table to stop this practice going on, last time I checked. UKIP dont.

What exactly do they intend to do and how will it be policed?

[vicgill]

Absolutely....all of this "yeah but it's ordinary people  who are fed up with Labour"  or "not everyone who votes UKIP is racist, some just aren't being listenened to"


Firstly by voting UKIP instead of Labour you're actually voting MORE extreme and Conservative than the Tories.

Secondly pleading ignorance is no excuse.
The stories about how Racist, Homophobic, Xenophobic & Misogynistic UKIP candidates are have been running for weeks...(actually months and years)..plus if you're voting for a party without doing research then you're an idiot.

So as others have put it.

You're either racist or thick as shit if you vote UKIP.
The ignorance plea won't work anymore, UKIP and their disgusting members/candidates have aired their views for all to see so if you ally yourself with these scum, you're one of those two things.

"I deplore what you are saying but I will defend to the death your right to do so"....Quote Voltaire

A lot of men and woman gave their lives during the second world war for you to hold your opinion.

[TheTeflonJohn]

UKIP practically has no policies, Frottage has rejected their last manifesto, and their new one is a 12 page PDF, 8 of which are pictures or meaningless gibberish of 'real people' saying why they are voting UKIP. The biggest section of their manifesto is a two page 'I'm voting UKIP' poster - not even joking.

And of their 8 page European manifesto, literally 5 are pictures.

In lieu of anything on the UKIP website that would tell me what they profess to stand for, I am forced to refer to this year old article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22396690

My particular favourites are the flat-tax rate, the £77bn public spending cut, increase defence spend and the rejection of man-made climate change and same-sex marriage. They're pretty much Thatcher's own Ramsay Snow (if you'll forgive the Game of Thrones reference).

I hope this answers your question as to why UKIP are a 'party' deserving only of scorn and ridicule, and why anyone who voted for them are, as another poster put it, 'thick as pigshit'.

EDIT: Oh and you'll find a small section on their local manifesto devoted to branding Romanians criminals.

Thanks mate, and the bolded bit 

[johnsmithlfc]

"I deplore what you are saying but I will defend to the death your right to do so"....Quote Voltaire

A lot of men and woman gave their lives during the second world war for you to hold your opinion.

I'm not American mate... that kind of quote doesn't really affect me.
We fought AGAINST fascists and bigots and racists in WW2.... we didn't fight so they could then say "grrrrrr let's kick the foreigners out."

[vicgill]

I'm not American mate... that kind of quote doesn't really affect me.
We fought AGAINST fascists and bigots and racists in WW2.... we didn't fight so they could then say "grrrrrr let's kick the foreigners out."

By jove were you there?  will it be you who decides who are the bigots and racists, who goes on the ducking stool. People are allowed to hold an opinion, if you don´t agree then you need to strengthen your argument not resort to name calling and insults.

[jaffod]

By jove were you there?  will it be you who decides who are the bigots and racists, who goes on the ducking stool. People are allowed to hold an opinion, if you don´t agree then you need to strengthen your argument not resort to name calling and insults.

That's how it works on here Vic, if you agree with them you are educated and hold an opinion but if you don't you are thick and have 'issues'.

[johnsmithlfc]

By jove were you there?  will it be you who decides who are the bigots and racists, who goes on the ducking stool. People are allowed to hold an opinion, if you don´t agree then you need to strengthen your argument not resort to name calling and insults.

The arguments against UKIP are in this thread... they've been posted.
What are you asking, what is your point?

[vicgill]

That's how it works on here Vic, if you agree with them you are educated and hold an opinion but if you don't you are thick and have 'issues'.

Hiya mate, yes I just worked that one out

[TravisBickle]

By jove were you there?  will it be you who decides who are the bigots and racists, who goes on the ducking stool. People are allowed to hold an opinion, if you don´t agree then you need to strengthen your argument not resort to name calling and insults.

 How can you post that Voltaire quote and then get annoyed when someone uses nasty words? Freedom of speech works both ways.

[vicgill]

The arguments against UKIP are in this thread... they've been posted.
What are you asking, what is your point?

Yes and some are perfectly valid

I suggest you go back and read your posts, you come across as a bully boy dickhead, which I am sure you are not.

[vicgill]

 How can you post that Voltaire quote and then get annoyed when someone uses nasty words? Freedom of speech works both ways.

He was calling people names because they hold a different opinion than him

[zebenzui]

"I deplore what you are saying but I will defend to the death your right to do so"....Quote Voltaire

A lot of men and woman gave their lives during the second world war for you to hold your opinion.

I'm not American mate... that kind of quote doesn't really affect me.
We fought AGAINST fascists and bigots and racists in WW2.... we didn't fight so they could then say "grrrrrr let's kick the foreigners out."

By jove were you there?  will it be you who decides who are the bigots and racists, who goes on the ducking stool. People are allowed to hold an opinion, if you don´t agree then you need to strengthen your argument not resort to name calling and insults.

Were you there? Frankly it doesn't matter why people fought in past wars, it probably matters less what Voltaire said. People have the right to hold their own opinions, but it doesn't make those opinions right, it's an improtant distinction.

In this particular case, we have seen (and I have partially highlighted above) that UKIP have no arguments, no rationale, no cogent reasoning to support their point of view. More importantly, there have been ample examples of members of UKIP, and representatives of UKIP, espousing vile views that I sincerely hope you will not deny as bigoted and hateful. You will find such examples if you peruse this thread.

That's how it works on here Vic, if you agree with them you are educated and hold an opinion but if you don't you are thick and have 'issues'.

Not at all, I'm a failed student of physics, and have no qualifications to speak of. I simply do the bare minimum to keep myself informed and vote accordingly, on account of which party shares my beliefs most. To not do so, and, out of ignorance, vote for and support a party that will work against your interests if they ever gain power, is indeed a very stupid and avoidable act. To support them with the knowledge of the harm they intend to do would also be highly indicative of certain 'issues'.

[johnsmithlfc]

Yes and some are perfectly valid

I suggest you go back and read your posts, you come across as a bully boy dickhead, which I am sure you are not.

Uh huh..... and I suggest you read my other posts previous to the last one you've taken offence at.
I was merely following on from other posts that came to the conclusion that you're either thick or racist to vote UKIP.

In previous posts I said I could understand a protest vote for UKIP and see why people are doing it, but going into the general elections and knowing what we know about UKIP, if people still vote for them then it's a disgrace.
People were making all of the same arguments about The BNP.... "they're not racist"  "People need a voice" etc.
You can make an argument for any extremist position by making excuses for certain views they hold

[The Fletcher Memorial]

What exactly do they intend to do and how will it be policed?

That was two years ago, so no knee jerking

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/21/change-rules-migrant-workers-miliband


More perspective here

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/02/curb-immigration-pay-workers-living-wage

Labour's pitch on immigration is counter-intuitive: enforce decent pay and conditions and fewer migrants will come. Once British people with families could afford to take those jobs, employers would lose any incentive to recruit cheap workers abroad. Stop bad employers undercutting decent pay with imported near-slave labour. As a message it may not quite work politically as it doesn't satisfy the gut fears of the Ukip-inclined, but it has the advantage of taking real action against a real problem. Labour's new determination to enforce minimum pay inspections and spread gangmaster legislation to construction and hospitality is more than welcome: Tony Blair and Gordon Brown adamantly refused both, appeasing employers with lax regulation.


Yvette Cooper says government has ignored calls to strengthen existing legislation

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/01/uk-workers-unprotected-migration-labour-cooper

[vicgill]

Uh huh..... and I suggest you read my other posts previous to the last one you've taken offence at.
I was merely following on from other posts that came to the conclusion that you're either thick or racist to vote UKIP.

In previous posts I said I could understand a protest vote for UKIP and see why people are doing it, but going into the general elections and knowing what we know about UKIP, if people still vote for them then it's a disgrace.
People were making all of the same arguments about The BNP.... "they're not racist"  "People need a voice" etc.
You can make an argument for any extremist position by making excuses for certain views they hold

For a moment I thought there were two John Smiths on here, that is a very good reasoned argument that you have just posted,  if I have caused you any upset then I apologise.

[johnsmithlfc]

For a moment I thought there were two John Smiths on here, that is a very good reasoned argument that you have just posted,  if I have caused you any upset then I apologise.

No worries at all mate, no offence taken.... happy to debate all issues and positions.

[jaffod]

That was two years ago, so no knee jerking

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/21/change-rules-migrant-workers-miliband


More perspective here

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/02/curb-immigration-pay-workers-living-wage

Labour's pitch on immigration is counter-intuitive: enforce decent pay and conditions and fewer migrants will come. Once British people with families could afford to take those jobs, employers would lose any incentive to recruit cheap workers abroad. Stop bad employers undercutting decent pay with imported near-slave labour. As a message it may not quite work politically as it doesn't satisfy the gut fears of the Ukip-inclined, but it has the advantage of taking real action against a real problem. Labour's new determination to enforce minimum pay inspections and spread gangmaster legislation to construction and hospitality is more than welcome: Tony Blair and Gordon Brown adamantly refused both, appeasing employers with lax regulation.


Yvette Cooper says government has ignored calls to strengthen existing legislation

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/01/uk-workers-unprotected-migration-labour-cooper

Classic bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted. The Labour party created the problem in the first place by allowing hundreds of thousands of migrant workers to take low paid jobs in factories, warehouses and on building sites up and down the land. They are easily manipulated by unscrupulous employers and H&S, which is the issue here, is neglected to the detriment of everyone. You can't even argue the unions will police any policies a Labour government promises to implement because unions are virtually non-existent or power-less in the sort of companies we're talking about.

[Solomon Grundy]

This is how they campaigned. The more extreme the exposure they get the more votes they get. Honestly, people who vote for UKIP are either extremely dumb or sadly racist or very likely both.

No they aren't ffs.

[Solomon Grundy]

Classic bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted. The Labour party created the problem in the first place by allowing hundreds of thousands of migrant workers to take low paid jobs in factories, warehouses and on building sites up and down the land. They are easily manipulated by unscrupulous employers and H&S, which is the issue here, is neglected to the detriment of everyone. You can't even argue the unions will police any policies a Labour government promises to implement because unions are virtually non-existent or power-less in the sort of companies we're talking about.

You actually make a good point there mate. The union at our work is bloody useless. Really do feel like coming out of it. Save myself the £130 or whatever it is a year I'm paying.

[Istanbul, 2005]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wFii8klNg

This is why you should vote UKIP, sadly no Labour member has the same courage as Tony Benn. So good work Frottage, finally someone who is exposing some of the horrible aspects of the European union.

[The Fletcher Memorial]

Classic bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted. The Labour party created the problem in the first place by allowing hundreds of thousands of migrant workers to take low paid jobs in factories, warehouses and on building sites up and down the land. They are easily manipulated by unscrupulous employers and H&S, which is the issue here, is neglected to the detriment of everyone. You can't even argue the unions will police any policies a Labour government promises to implement because unions are virtually non-existent or power-less in the sort of companies we're talking about.

You actually make a good point there mate. The union at our work is bloody useless. Really do feel like coming out of it. Save myself the £130 or whatever it is a year I'm paying.

But the point I'm making here is that Labour, if elected, would do something about it. Even if in small ways to begin with. It's still something positive and that's not what you get when you vote UKIP or Tory. So people protest voting UKIP doesnt stand up when you think about it.

And to suggest leaving your union to save £130 a year makes me want to weep, it really does.

[Anywhichwayicant]

Look, when you fuck about like Labour have in their last stint in government, don't be surprised and start cribbing when people give you the two fingers and vote UKIP.


Two loathsome parties.

[24/7]

This is why you should vote UKIP.....

What about the rest of the UKIP 'policy' and philosophy? Are you seriously advocating contributing to the election of these fucking morons on the back of a single point, that of extraction from a system that is better changed from within? What about their flat 31% tax rate proposal, their desire to decimate public services, too many of their members' stance on homosexuality, all that stuff? Doesn't that bother you? Anyone promoting this 'party' is worse than a fucking Tory and I just shake my head in disbelief and wonder what the hell goes through some people's minds, I truly despair....

....and on that note I think I'm better off swerving this car crash of a thread and sticking to the footie. Enjoy

[The Fletcher Memorial]

Look, when you fuck about like Labour have in their last stint in government, don't be surprised and start cribbing when people give you the two fingers and vote UKIP.


Two loathsome parties.

Right ok then, fuck it. Lets not try and make things better hey, lets pull up the drawbridge, turn our backs on johnny foreigner because they're all to blame, and go it alone. That'll fix everything.

Lets trust UKIP, they'll get us out of Europe and only give jobs to British people - well the straight ones.....oh and a few menial ones for women....

Ridiculous!

[Solomon Grundy]

But the point I'm making here is that Labour, if elected, would do something about it. Even if in small ways to begin with. It's still something positive and that's not what you get when you vote UKIP or Tory. So people protest voting UKIP doesnt stand up when you think about it.

And to suggest leaving your union to save £130 a year makes me want to weep, it really does.

Well I hope they do.

Oh and you want to come and work at my place mate. That will definitely give you something to fucking cry about. The union in our work place is fucking useless, absolutely fucking useless. It's them you should feel annoyed with, not the workers who feel let down by them.

[zebenzui]

No they aren't ffs.

There are plenty of Eurosceptic parties out there that either want to leave, or hold a referendum on the EU. Why would anyone vote for UKIP ahead of any of those if they do not share their right wing, thatcherite, reactionary beliefs?

Maybe he should have added another category: dumb, racist or right-wing sociopaths.

[Anywhichwayicant]

Right ok then, fuck it. Lets not try and make things better hey, lets pull up the drawbridge, turn our backs on johnny foreigner because they're all to blame, and go it alone. That'll fix everything.

Lets trust UKIP, they'll get us out of Europe and only give jobs to British people - well the straight ones.....oh and a few menial ones for women....

Ridiculous!

How have you deduced that from my post? Because I was negative about Labour?


I'm all for open immigration. I personally have no issue with it at all.

I loathe UKIP. I also loathe Labour.

[Solomon Grundy]

There are plenty of Eurosceptic parties out there that either want to leave, or hold a referendum on the EU. Why would anyone vote for UKIP ahead of any of those if they do not share their right wing, thatcherite, reactionary beliefs?

Maybe he should have added another category: dumb, racist or right-wing sociopaths.

I know quite a few people who voted UKIP in the hope it'll shock Labour or whoever ends up in power into action. They have no intention of voting UKIP in the future by the way. They are neither thick, homophobic, bigots or racists.

[johnsmithlfc]

What about the rest of the UKIP 'policy' and philosophy? Are you seriously advocating contributing to the election of these fucking morons on the back of a single point, that of extraction from a system that is better changed from within? What about their flat 31% tax rate proposal, their desire to decimate public services, too many of their members' stance on homosexuality, all that stuff? Doesn't that bother you? Anyone promoting this 'party' is worse than a fucking Tory and I just shake my head in disbelief and wonder what the hell goes through some people's minds, I truly despair....

....and on that note I think I'm better off swerving this car crash of a thread and sticking to the footie. Enjoy

Sadly on this thread you'll be called a bigot though..... even though you're telling the truth and that UKIP are in fact fucking SCUM.
Some people just don't get quite how dangerous UKIP are and how much they are Wolves in sheeps clothing.

Labour have lost their way for sure..... let's say politics in this country has got the common cold, it's all a bit crap and we're all feeling under the weather.... bringing in or voting UKIP is like asking for Cancer to cure the common cold.
You may be annoyed that Labour aren't "Left" enough any more, and they're NOT... I agree..... but the answer will NEVER be voting for Far-Right, Xenophobic, Homophobic, misogynistic scum like UKIP.

They Ally themselves with many other Far-right parties across Europe.

If you think the Tories are bad.... UKIP are way, way worse.

They would dismantle the NHS, give HUGE tax cuts for the rich and huge RISES for the poor.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/10/ukip-faces-questions-far-right-europe-for-freedom-and-democracy

Frottage defends his "friends" In Europe saying you have to make alliances with "dodgy" people to get what you want sometimes.

I guess it's up to each person to make their mind up on the evidence out there about UKIP and Frottage.
But people need to research before voting, not blindly vote because the guy drinks beer and seems normal and attacks other politicians.