Author Topic: General Manchester City thread  (Read 3432926 times)

Offline gritsvanilla

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17080 on: November 22, 2017, 12:29:23 am »
Yeah Ok, whatever you want to believe. We have 2 different opinions. Such is life!

I don't believe anything mate, i don't like the guy it's as simple as that.

Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17081 on: November 22, 2017, 12:51:19 am »
Erm i never said Klopp or Rafa were better managers. I said i preferred them both as human beings because i think Guardiola is a mercenary, he goes to the richest clubs in their leagues, he stays about 3 or 4 seasons and then rinse and repeat, that's the very definition of a mercenary.

I'm not questioning his ability as a manager or his ability to improve players i'm questioning the guys integrity, i'm convinced PSG's his next job. His sides play some lovely football but post Barcelona he's spent a shedload in doing so that when put into the context of what other managers have to spend make it really hard to compare his abilities. I mean there's basically Mourinho and Emery who are operating within the same context, not much of a sample size is it?

I mean how can i compare him Rafa or Klopp, Rafa is at Newcastle and has Mike Ashley as his owner, Klopp has had an average spend of 30-40 million net spend since he's been here, how can you compare the merits of either against a man who has spent 600 million in that time, i don't see where there is a discussion.

Mercenary lol.

You ever asked yourself why he has been offered the jobs he has had?


Offline Lastrador

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17082 on: November 22, 2017, 01:48:25 am »
Erm i never said Klopp or Rafa were better managers. I said i preferred them both as human beings because i think Guardiola is a mercenary, he goes to the richest clubs in their leagues, he stays about 3 or 4 seasons and then rinse and repeat, that's the very definition of a mercenary.

I'm not questioning his ability as a manager or his ability to improve players i'm questioning the guys integrity, i'm convinced PSG's his next job. His sides play some lovely football but post Barcelona he's spent a shedload in doing so that when put into the context of what other managers have to spend make it really hard to compare his abilities. I mean there's basically Mourinho and Emery who are operating within the same context, not much of a sample size is it?

I mean how can i compare him Rafa or Klopp, Rafa is at Newcastle and has Mike Ashley as his owner, Klopp has had an average spend of 30-40 million net spend since he's been here, how can you compare the merits of either against a man who has spent 600 million in that time, i don't see where there is a discussion.
Not really, a mercenary primary interest is getting paid. Even if you don't like the man, as you clearly don't, I don't think you can say that he comes across as a money grabbing twat. I think he chooses his jobs in a way that give him the best possibly platform to perform and apply his vision, and yes that usually means lots of money to compete with other filthy rich clubs. I personally don't think there's anything bad with this as it's clearly the only way to achieving sustained success on the modern game.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 01:51:08 am by Lastrador »

Offline Xxavi

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17083 on: November 22, 2017, 02:54:30 am »
Erm i never said Klopp or Rafa were better managers. I said i preferred them both as human beings because i think Guardiola is a mercenary, he goes to the richest clubs in their leagues, he stays about 3 or 4 seasons and then rinse and repeat, that's the very definition of a mercenary.

I'm not questioning his ability as a manager or his ability to improve players i'm questioning the guys integrity, i'm convinced PSG's his next job. His sides play some lovely football but post Barcelona he's spent a shedload in doing so that when put into the context of what other managers have to spend make it really hard to compare his abilities. I mean there's basically Mourinho and Emery who are operating within the same context, not much of a sample size is it?

I mean how can i compare him Rafa or Klopp, Rafa is at Newcastle and has Mike Ashley as his owner, Klopp has had an average spend of 30-40 million net spend since he's been here, how can you compare the merits of either against a man who has spent 600 million in that time, i don't see where there is a discussion.
I love how you are essentially making martyrs of Klopp and Rafa. As I said above, there are/have been dozens of managers in Spain who have worked under a lot worse conditions. Think about it, Rafa preferred to go to Championship in England instead of taking a top flight job in Spain. If you think this is because of his high morality, you are in cuckoo-land. His high morality hasn't stopped him from being stop gap manager at Chelsea, Inter Milan and Real Madrid. The reason why he chose Newcastle and Ashley over say Valencia is because... guess what, it is easier to work in England. At Valencia, coaches are like dirt, fans are a lot more demanding than just about any English club, and yes, you get fuck all to spend. 30-40m to spend is bad? How about you spend fuck all and instead sell, yet you have to deliver? Yes, that's the life of coaches in Spain.

Everything is relative. If spending little is so important to you, look at Sevilla, Liverpool's most recent opponent. Look at what Emery and Berizzo have done with them. That club sells their best players every year and have to start over. There is fuck all continuity, it is ever changing squad. They have to make it work with bunch of raw players, failures from top clubs etc. So what do you think of Berizzo, Sampaoli and Emery as compared to Klopp and Rafa?

Mate, you need to realize that Klopp is one lucky manager compared to 99%+ of other managers out there. You are only comparing him to Guardiola and Mourinho here, but if you want to be so fair, compare him to Sevilla managers. Oh poor Klopp, could only spend 30-50m on players like Mane, Firmino and Salah. Yeah, what do you think Emery spent at Sevilla? Got Banega on a free?

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17084 on: November 22, 2017, 06:35:51 am »
I love how you are essentially making martyrs of Klopp and Rafa. As I said above, there are/have been dozens of managers in Spain who have worked under a lot worse conditions. Think about it, Rafa preferred to go to Championship in England instead of taking a top flight job in Spain. If you think this is because of his high morality, you are in cuckoo-land. His high morality hasn't stopped him from being stop gap manager at Chelsea, Inter Milan and Real Madrid. The reason why he chose Newcastle and Ashley over say Valencia is because... guess what, it is easier to work in England. At Valencia, coaches are like dirt, fans are a lot more demanding than just about any English club, and yes, you get fuck all to spend. 30-40m to spend is bad? How about you spend fuck all and instead sell, yet you have to deliver? Yes, that's the life of coaches in Spain.

Everything is relative. If spending little is so important to you, look at Sevilla, Liverpool's most recent opponent. Look at what Emery and Berizzo have done with them. That club sells their best players every year and have to start over. There is fuck all continuity, it is ever changing squad. They have to make it work with bunch of raw players, failures from top clubs etc. So what do you think of Berizzo, Sampaoli and Emery as compared to Klopp and Rafa?

Mate, you need to realize that Klopp is one lucky manager compared to 99%+ of other managers out there. You are only comparing him to Guardiola and Mourinho here, but if you want to be so fair, compare him to Sevilla managers. Oh poor Klopp, could only spend 30-50m on players like Mane, Firmino and Salah. Yeah, what do you think Emery spent at Sevilla? Got Banega on a free?

Give it a rest.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17085 on: November 22, 2017, 07:25:26 am »
I love how you are essentially making martyrs of Klopp and Rafa. As I said above, there are/have been dozens of managers in Spain who have worked under a lot worse conditions. Think about it, Rafa preferred to go to Championship in England instead of taking a top flight job in Spain. If you think this is because of his high morality, you are in cuckoo-land. His high morality hasn't stopped him from being stop gap manager at Chelsea, Inter Milan and Real Madrid. The reason why he chose Newcastle and Ashley over say Valencia is because... guess what, it is easier to work in England. At Valencia, coaches are like dirt, fans are a lot more demanding than just about any English club, and yes, you get fuck all to spend. 30-40m to spend is bad? How about you spend fuck all and instead sell, yet you have to deliver? Yes, that's the life of coaches in Spain.

Everything is relative. If spending little is so important to you, look at Sevilla, Liverpool's most recent opponent. Look at what Emery and Berizzo have done with them. That club sells their best players every year and have to start over. There is fuck all continuity, it is ever changing squad. They have to make it work with bunch of raw players, failures from top clubs etc. So what do you think of Berizzo, Sampaoli and Emery as compared to Klopp and Rafa?

Mate, you need to realize that Klopp is one lucky manager compared to 99%+ of other managers out there. You are only comparing him to Guardiola and Mourinho here, but if you want to be so fair, compare him to Sevilla managers. Oh poor Klopp, could only spend 30-50m on players like Mane, Firmino and Salah. Yeah, what do you think Emery spent at Sevilla? Got Banega on a free?

Turned them into a bunch of cheating arses, big deal.
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Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17086 on: November 22, 2017, 11:09:06 am »
Turned them into a bunch of cheating arses, big deal.

If you can't construct a proper argument, why bother posting?

Offline gritsvanilla

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17087 on: November 22, 2017, 04:27:14 pm »
Mercenary lol.

You ever asked yourself why he has been offered the jobs he has had?



He's been offered those jobs because he's a bloody good manager, i never said otherwise.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17088 on: November 22, 2017, 04:46:03 pm »
Oh dear, here we are once again. You have these guys who think that managing a top club is all about "letting them express themselves, be relatively organised and not try and reinvent the wheel". Do you really think it works like that? I mean, how on earth did the likes of Rafa Benitez (who won huge trophies in his career) and Pellegrini fail with all the great players they had then? You gotta realize that at these clubs, the players, the club, the media realize fairly quickly if you are there by a "mistake".

Your assumption seems that Dyche would be at City but with Pep's reputation, and then he'll have it easy. But come on, why do you even consider such a weird scenario? So managers have to be in Pep's place but also have his reputation that he himself built for years? And only then it is a fair comparison? Dyche wouldn't survive at City with his current reputation, he just wouldn't be hired, and that much you probably know. Even if he is hired, football isn't about coming and not messing with the wheel. Ancelotti failed at Bayern Munich, Emery is failing at PSG, Rafa and Pellegrini at Madrid. And these aren't amateurs, these are experienced coaches.

Enough with this BS that devalues a top club manager's work and achievements. At this rate, it seems like the hardest jobs are those done by Allardyce and Pulis, whereas everybody else is having it easy. Ridiculous.

The argument or supposition was who would do better in respective circumstances. I stand by my opinion that Dyche would do better at City than Pep would do at Burnley. I feel it would be easier for Dyche to let world class players play with not too much disruption of tactics than it would be for Pep to try and get technically inferior footballers with limited tactical flexibility playing the way he wants to. It isn't absurd, and the fact that you went on a tangent to explain to me how I see football makes me laugh. British managers in this day and age are not good enough, and yes, to placate you, Pep IS one of the best in the world.

But I bet he has a small penis. So go and cry about that.

Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17089 on: November 22, 2017, 04:51:01 pm »
He's been offered those jobs because he's a bloody good manager, i never said otherwise.

Not really sure how that equates to being a mercenary.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17090 on: November 22, 2017, 05:06:34 pm »
XXavi is preparing everyone for his announcement as a Man City supporter when Barcelona get kicked out of La Liga and are playing pig farmers and cheese graters.

Offline tubby

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17091 on: November 22, 2017, 05:19:21 pm »
It's not worth arguing Pep with Xxavi because he just will not let it go, he's relentless.  Get him on any other subject and he's a really solid contributor to the site but anything even remotely Pep-related is a never-ending rabbit hole.
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Offline Xxavi

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17092 on: November 22, 2017, 05:56:58 pm »
The argument or supposition was who would do better in respective circumstances. I stand by my opinion that Dyche would do better at City than Pep would do at Burnley. I feel it would be easier for Dyche to let world class players play with not too much disruption of tactics than it would be for Pep to try and get technically inferior footballers with limited tactical flexibility playing the way he wants to. It isn't absurd, and the fact that you went on a tangent to explain to me how I see football makes me laugh. British managers in this day and age are not good enough, and yes, to placate you, Pep IS one of the best in the world.

But I bet he has a small penis. So go and cry about that.

I wouldn't cry about it, as mine isn't big either ;D

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17093 on: November 22, 2017, 06:05:58 pm »
I wouldn't cry about it, as mine isn't big either ;D

:D




Offline plura

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17094 on: November 22, 2017, 06:15:48 pm »

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17095 on: November 22, 2017, 06:37:36 pm »
It's not worth arguing Pep with Xxavi because he just will not let it go, he's relentless.  Get him on any other subject and he's a really solid contributor to the site but anything even remotely Pep-related is a never-ending rabbit hole.

I would argue you should stay clear of all things Italy as well.
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Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17096 on: November 22, 2017, 06:37:58 pm »
Xxavi can repeat and try to convince everyone how great Pep is, but I bet millions of Bayern fans don't agree with him. He was a downgrade there on Heynckes.
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Offline Xxavi

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17097 on: November 22, 2017, 08:19:30 pm »
Xxavi can repeat and try to convince everyone how great Pep is, but I bet millions of Bayern fans don't agree with him. He was a downgrade there on Heynckes.
I don't think everything is so white&black. Plenty of Bayern fans thought/think he was a success there, too. Some thought/think he was alright, neither a success nor a failure. And probably only a small section think he was a failure there.

I'd say that is the disadvantage of being a Bayern coach. Whatever you do domestically essentially has 0 value. Pep won those domestic trophies but they don't "count". Ancelotti won the league and got sacked unceremoniously. So you either win treble or you are a failure. It's almost impossible to succeed there. Somehow, nowadays, Bayern fans and outsides act as if Heynckes was winning treble every season with them. It's not true at all.

Regardless, it's great to see Pep in a league where domestic trophies are also valued, and the definition of success isn't as narrow as with Bayern. Funnily enough, I looked at the Bayern forums and even their fans seem to appreciate Pep's success with City a lot more than his success with Bayern. Bundesliga is a bit of a joke as a competition even to their eyes. It's ridiculous really.

Offline BigTroubleInLittleChina

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17098 on: November 23, 2017, 08:31:34 am »
Did i just read somebody comparing Sean Fucking Dyche, the guy who speaks of himself in third-person, to Guardiola?!

This is just getting tedious. You might not like the guy, but he kinda won everything as a player and as a coach.

The way she goes, boys.

Offline BigTroubleInLittleChina

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17099 on: November 23, 2017, 08:34:54 am »
Xxavi can repeat and try to convince everyone how great Pep is, but I bet millions of Bayern fans don't agree with him. He was a downgrade there on Heynckes.

I think the millions of Bayern fans were pretty happy with 3 titles and 2 cups in three years. The CL isnt something you should win every year like Real do. Heycknes team was a fucking machine, but wouldnt last as players get older and Ribery/Robben has been broken ever since almost.

But i do agree Heynckes Bayern were magical. Just as Pep`s Narca in their prime.

And why the fuck can`t there be several good coaches? Why do one have to be better than the other, cant they all be great?
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Offline SA800

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17100 on: November 23, 2017, 11:54:56 am »
I know this guy has built up quite an amount of posts, but do we really need this constant snide slagging off of our manager because someone questioned Pep Guardiola? It’s fucking nauseating

Quick - do something! We can't have someone praising another manager...

Offline gritsvanilla

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17101 on: November 23, 2017, 03:27:07 pm »
Quick - do something! We can't have someone praising another manager...

But that's the problem he's not just praising another manager he's also using it as a way of getting sly digs in at our current and ex manager. Funny how he didn't compare Pep to someone like Mourinho, you know someone who is spending in a similar vein to Guardiola, someone else who only ever seems to move between clubs with money, actually using Jose as a comparison would actually strengthen Xxavi's argument about Pep's abilities. Instead he compares him to two managers whose careers have taken a much different path, comparing him to Jurgen and Rafa seems to be nothing more than trying to wind up Liverpool fans.


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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17103 on: November 23, 2017, 08:58:01 pm »
But i do agree Heynckes Bayern were magical. Just as Pep`s Narcos in their prime.

;D
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Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17104 on: November 23, 2017, 09:04:39 pm »
https://twitter.com/FCBdailyy/status/933290211244724230

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/1Fxgkdjh_sc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/1Fxgkdjh_sc</a>

Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17105 on: November 24, 2017, 05:07:16 am »
I don't think everything is so white&black. Plenty of Bayern fans thought/think he was a success there, too. Some thought/think he was alright, neither a success nor a failure. And probably only a small section think he was a failure there.

I'd say that is the disadvantage of being a Bayern coach. Whatever you do domestically essentially has 0 value. Pep won those domestic trophies but they don't "count". Ancelotti won the league and got sacked unceremoniously. So you either win treble or you are a failure. It's almost impossible to succeed there. Somehow, nowadays, Bayern fans and outsides act as if Heynckes was winning treble every season with them. It's not true at all.

Regardless, it's great to see Pep in a league where domestic trophies are also valued, and the definition of success isn't as narrow as with Bayern. Funnily enough, I looked at the Bayern forums and even their fans seem to appreciate Pep's success with City a lot more than his success with Bayern. Bundesliga is a bit of a joke as a competition even to their eyes. It's ridiculous really.

Bayern fans won't really remember him there. Pep replacing Heynckes, was a bit like Rafa at Inter after Mourinho.
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Offline Yiannis

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17106 on: November 24, 2017, 12:19:23 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/1Fxgkdjh_sc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/1Fxgkdjh_sc</a>

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17107 on: November 28, 2017, 09:07:02 am »
His a great coach.  Put it this way there are not many who could have his sides playing the way they do.



Exactly. You can spend all the money you want, it’ll only get you so far and you still have to succeed, he does that more often than not
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Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17108 on: November 28, 2017, 10:04:52 am »
Bayern fans won't really remember him there. Pep replacing Heynckes, was a bit like Rafa at Inter after Mourinho.

Was it? Rafa was sacked within months.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17109 on: November 28, 2017, 12:18:57 pm »
Will Aguero get rested tonight?

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17110 on: November 28, 2017, 12:35:12 pm »
Will Aguero get rested tonight?

Should do, can't see him playing for the u18s with the first team playing tomorrow. ;)

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17111 on: November 28, 2017, 12:52:41 pm »
Will Aguero get rested tonight?

Started the last two so i'd suspect he'll be rested tonight.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17112 on: November 28, 2017, 01:56:47 pm »
Exactly. You can spend all the money you want, it’ll only get you so far and you still have to succeed, he does that more often than not
In football, it is all about hindsight. If you make Sterling work as a top class winger, then some just brush it off "well, of course the talent was there, he cost 50m pounds for a reason". If Sterling fails, then, "how come ManCity didn't see that they are overpaying for a brainless runner?".

If you fail with Otamendi and Stones as your defenders, "it was clear that these were crap defenders, they were arrogant thinking that they can get away playing these two". If you succeed with these, "when you have a team in which every defender cost 40m+, of course you are good".

And so and so on.

Offline dalarr

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17113 on: November 28, 2017, 07:59:50 pm »
Pep Guardiola's side came from behind at Huddersfield on Sunday to win a top-flight game in which they trailed at half-time for the first time since April 1995 (BBC).
What?? That simply cannot be true. Am I missing something here?

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17114 on: November 29, 2017, 07:56:06 am »
Pep Guardiola's side came from behind at Huddersfield on Sunday to win a top-flight game in which they trailed at half-time for the first time since April 1995 (BBC).
What?? That simply cannot be true. Am I missing something here?

The stat is accurate but there is a bit missing - it is for away games only.

It is a quirky stat. City have won  away games in the league  after they have fallen behind (most recently Bournemouth early in the season) but they don't count for the purposes of the stat because they weren't behind specifically at half-time.

It was last highlighted on here a couple of years or so ago and to put it into perspective Liverpool then  had won 6 away games in the league  from behind at half time in 20+ years. IIRC there was a run of 12 years without a single win from when the PL was formed.



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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17115 on: November 29, 2017, 08:25:48 am »
The stat is accurate but there is a bit missing - it is for away games only.

It is a quirky stat. City have won  away games in the league  after they have fallen behind (most recently Bournemouth early in the season) but they don't count for the purposes of the stat because they weren't behind specifically at half-time.

It was last highlighted on here a couple of years or so ago and to put it into perspective Liverpool then  had won 6 away games in the league  from behind at half time in 20+ years. IIRC there was a run of 12 years without a single win from when the PL was formed.




One at City in 08/09 was a particular favourite. ;)

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17116 on: November 29, 2017, 09:03:19 am »
You mightbe about right there. From the top of my head I have:

Villa 2-1 in Rodgers first season
West Ham 3-2 in Rodgers first season
Fulham 4-2 in Rafa's first season
Charlton 2-1 in Rafa's first season
City 3-2 in 08/09
Everton 2-1 in 07/08 with 2 Dirk penalties

They're might be a couple more but I'm pretty sure of these ones. Not a massive number but it's happened a few times anyway.


Prompted me to look back... we've had this conversation before  :)

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17117 on: November 29, 2017, 11:06:51 am »
The

Prompted me to look back... we've had this conversation before  :)
The Fulham 4-2 win from behind was the first in a very long time if I recall.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17118 on: November 29, 2017, 11:41:30 am »
Thank you for doing the research for me. It seemed to good to be true.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #17119 on: November 29, 2017, 10:49:31 pm »