Topic: Time to stop and think....

[Fat Scouser]

Since joining RAWK nearly 5 years ago, this is the 4th thread I've started, and it's the 3rd one in the last few weeks.

I'm only starting it because there is a thread going in support of Rafa Benitez asking people for their good memories of the man. Well, in order to stop it descending into the usual infighting, I'm starting this thread for people to state why they want him out.

I should have just called it Rafa out, but thats not the point. It's more of a place for people to state their case as to why they want Rafa out, and explain why they think it would be best for the club.

Myself, I think it would be absolute madness. I can see no good coming from it at all. If I did think it would be better for the team, I would be first to thank Rafa kindly for all he has done, and then wish him good bye and good luck.

But in all honesty, there's only 2 alternatives I can see...
1: The worst - doing a Leeds.
2: Mid table mediocrity, under a mediocre manager.

And despite what some people will see as panic mongering, doing a Leeds is very much on the cards...
over stretched financially, lose our boss, sell our star players.
That's how easily Leeds imploded, O'Leary and the board fell out, O'Leary was out, Ferdinand was sold for a king's ransom at the time (30 mill) and the whole thing soon fell like the pack of cards it really was.

Their situation really wasn't that different from ours. In fact, it was that close, it's frightening.

But I see option 2 being the most realistic. H&G bring in their own man. And let's get it straight, it won't be Hiddink or Mourhino. And we know their idea of a good manager... Klinnsman anyone?

(As for Maureen, I'd honestly never go to another match again for as long as we had him in charge).

But anyway, that's by the by. The name being bandied about most since the Reading game is Roy Hodgeson. Nice enough fella Roy, and a decent mid table manager. And probably the sort of manager I would expect us to get.

But whoever they bring in will obviously be expected to toe the party line, and to work under the same sort of constraints that Rafa has. Is there anybody who could do a better job in them circumstances?

So, fair enough.... you want Rafa out. Well, I've just partially stated why I want him to stay. But I hand it over to you now to say, why you want him out and what you think would happen once he's gone.

And please Rafa supporters, I only started this to stop a pro Rafa thread from being hijacked. So, give his detractors the same respect we want from them...
don't come in here calling them knobheads and kicking off.

Let's just get the cards on the table, and see where people think we can go from here. I look at Valencia for confirmation of what I think will happen in life after Rafa. But I'd actually like to be proved wrong, and optimistically think there is a better alternative.

So, over to you...

[OohCampione]

Me thinks this will need a fair amount of moderating, but that shouldn't detract from how much potential this thread has.

For the record, I want him to stay.

[TipTopKop]

I have always maintained -time and again- that if Rafa were to be let go, he should be replaced immediately by Fat Scouser.

[Tarantino Red]

No good whatsoever would come from Rafa leaving.

None.

[bordeauxred]

  Stay Rafa!

[Trada]

3. we will over come this bad run of form and go from strenght to strength.

Rafa has to stay!!!!

[Billy The Kid]

If Rafa goes we are seriously seriously fucked. People don't seem to be able to grasp that. Every time I read through a thread concerning Rafa, I always see some fucking idiot moaning about our lack of squad depth. Or the other popular one is "we should be closer to Utd and Chelsea considering the money he spent"

The fact is, we have an anual net spend of 16 million. There are about 8 teams in the league who are capable of spending more than us. The squad he has assembled under the budget granted to him is a very very good one. If Rick Parry deserves credit for anything then he deserves credit for getting us Rafa, because I don't believe there is another manager out there who could have improved us as much as he has in such a constrained working enviornment. Granted, the team is playing shit at the moment, but we've all seen with our own eyes what this team is capable of when on song.

He's only 49 you know, and has been one of the best managers on the continent for almost a decade. He's an eager learner, and no doubt he'll get better. I certainly dont want him to go. I have this dreaded image in my mind, where Madrid win their 10th European Cup, and their manager is pictured on the pitch with the trophy, its Rafa, and all we can do is look on and think "he used to be our manager"

[RedinExile]

I would like to know more of this Hodgkinson of whom you speak...

[wet echo]

Fat Scouser iam of a similar age to your good self and i have seen the great and the bad that this wonderful club has to offer. We live in a world were this once great club has been reduced to a media pillory were we place our manager in full view of these ignorant bastards who copy and paste insults and twisted opinion as fact.
In many ways this is indicative of modern society were repacious greed has replaced morality and conscious,and in doing so feeds the need to blame when failure has taken place.
We as both a club and a city stood for self belief and would back people who tried their upmost to do their best for the club or city.
Now we have started to show the first signs of that position changing at a faster pace than ever before.
We as supporters have a opportunity to stand against this repugnant tide,stand up for Rafa sing his name loud and proud. Make the sad hacks who pump out there bile week in week out realise that they may convince "tarquin from essex" that we are finished but he will never convince us.
Stop ringing the pathetic talkshows and their plastic hosts which only fuel their bonfire of vanity.
We are different from all the other clubs...remember that and if you cannot then go somewere else. We are Liverpool football club who are a beacon of red light to others who believe that somethings in life are more important than just winning a silver pot every season. If you dont believe in that then we might as well put away our proud banners and songs and wave plastic flags issued by the next set of owners looking to make the "brand"more attractive to the media whore.
Ask yourself in the mirror what would Shankly say about sacking our manager?

[balticred]

Is it just me or is this thread not going quite as intended?

Great potential thread to have a good discussion on our manager.

Judging from comments in the ground there are a lot who think his time is up - very interested to hear their views

[B9]

I don't want him out at this point but it's not a black/white issue as far as I am concerned.

I think it would be something worth considering if someone like Hiddink, Mourinho or Lippi became available,  now or in the summer. That is of course unless we go on a crazy winning streak in the second half of the season.

If we don't finish 4th I think we should consider other candidates as well, but with a view to keeping rafa for another season if no clear candidates emerge.

I think he'll be here till the summer, then the owners will decide. I can't help but think that the poor results is another reason they aren't giving him money to spend this window, in case they will appoint a new manager in the summer.

[Jimmy Case]

Before you say why you want him out, just think about this:

Rafa's one of ours. He'll know when it's time to go, (and don't anyone start saying he's only here for the money).

Think about what you are actually saying when you call for him to be sacked. Is that the values you live by - screaming for a man to be sacked?

We do our business in private. Let Purslow and Rafa talk it through - in peace and quiet. If they decide to keep going - great.

We are always banging on about keeping the Liverpool history and values. Screaming for change and histrionics isn't what we're about.

[killer-heels]

I don't want Rafa out and I still would keep him if I was the owner of the club, as well as trusting him with whatever money I could muster.

But I don't buy into the theory and belief that if he goes then we could not do better and we would be ruined. Thats my personal opinion anyway. I think that there are good managers out there who are on a par with him and could possibly do even better. He has had a handicap with the owner situation and having the situation the way it is may be difficult to manage for other managers like Mourinho. But I do think there are others who could handle it.

Rafa cannot remain in the job just because the fear of someone else coming in is greater. Maybe the club would do worse with another manager and maybe we would fall into mid-table mediocrity. But that fear cannot be the reason for keeping someone in the job and really, no one knows what will happen. Its not impossible that someone could do even better?

I want Rafa's main reason for staying at this club to be for footballing reasons. Like I said, at the moment and based on his past achievements, he would still get another season for me, even if we failed to come 4th. I think he has done a decent job. Not a very good job, or a rubbish job, but a decent job.

He won us the Champions League which was a great achievement and I guess that alone could elivate his tenure from a decent one into a good one. But in 5 full seasons we have only won 2 trophies, not won anything for 3 full seasons and only really had 1 title challenge. We have had the same issues in terms of a poor start and a strong finish (apart from last season, where we did have a good start) and you question as to whether he is learning from his mistakes.

The transfers in the last 2 seasons have a question mark also. The ones in the start of 08/09 were terrible and as TB said in his column, the jury is still out on Glen Johnson and Aquilani (although I have no doubts about Johnson and I think that in the long term he will prove to be a good signing). Despite this I still think he has overall done good in the transfer market.

Despite the money issues however, I think we have had a good enough squad over the years to have had much better performances in the league and in the cups and the possibility of remaining trophyless for a 4th year and only 1 title challenge in 6 years reduces Rafa's stock.

[rickythered]

Why worry? Rafa's jobs safe we can't even afford to fire him, how fucking sad is that?

[B9]

Before you say why you want him out, just think about this:

Rafa's one of ours. He'll know when it's time to go

So was Houllier, perhaps even moreso. He didn't know it was his time.

[SalisburyRed]

Why worry? Rafa's jobs safe we can't even afford to fire him, how fucking sad is that?

It's sad when people say that that's the only reason we're not letting him go.

[Jimmy Case]

Fat Scouser iam of a similar age to your good self and i have seen the great and the bad that this wonderful club has to offer. We live in a world were this once great club has been reduced to a media pillory were we place our manager in full view of these ignorant bastards who copy and paste insults and twisted opinion as fact.
In many ways this is indicative of modern society were repacious greed has replaced morality and conscious,and in doing so feeds the need to blame when failure has taken place.
We as both a club and a city stood for self belief and would back people who tried their upmost to do their best for the club or city.
Now we have started to show the first signs of that position changing at a faster pace than ever before.
We as supporters have a opportunity to stand against this repugnant tide,stand up for Rafa sing his name loud and proud. Make the sad hacks who pump out there bile week in week out realise that they may convince "tarquin from essex" that we are finished but he will never convince us.
Stop ringing the pathetic talkshows and their plastic hosts which only fuel their bonfire of vanity.
We are different from all the other clubs...remember that and if you cannot then go somewere else. We are Liverpool football club who are a beacon of red light to others who believe that somethings in life are more important than just winning a silver pot every season. If you dont believe in that then we might as well put away our proud banners and songs and wave plastic flags issued by the next set of owners looking to make the "brand"more attractive to the media whore.
Ask yourself in the mirror what would Shankly say about sacking our manager?

Fuckin great post.

[DAVY BOY RED]

Thru all this mayhem that is going on i've  all ways had this gut feeling that RAFA is the man to see us thru.The reading game showed me what happens . when footballers are payed to much money and don't give a fuck about the shirt they wear our the club they play for.In normal day work if someone did'nt do ther job properly they would get the hook,footballers can play rubbish for a long peroid of time but ther is little chance of them getting the boot.I remember  when dundee united  where the team to beat in scotland the players wher on the lowest basic salary in the league but thier bonuses where the highest in the league which made the players perform knowing that if they gave thier all and won then rewards where to get.It work for united and made the players hungier for success

[Horse_with_no_name]

Why should Rafa go exactly?

Because we are in a poor run of form?
Because he has made mistakes in the transfer market?
Or because the media have mounted a campaign against him and certain members of the public (I will not give them respect by calling them fans) have adopted their views as fact.

The first two happen to every manager. Ferguson finished 2nd in this third season in charge then finished 15th the following season.

The third is a sad by product of the Sky era.

Here is a man with honesty and integrity. He has a proven track record. He loves our Club and understands our history and tradition. He loves the City and the people.

He will turn it around. Guarenteed. He just needs time and patience.

To parody JFK: Ask not what your Manager can do for you. Ask only what you can do for your Manager.

[Terry de Niro]

There is something very seriously wrong at our club at the moment, and like I said in the Hansen thread, every single person at the club from top to fucking bottom needs to take a good fucking look at themselves, roll their fucking sleeves up and FIGHT for our great club.
Those red shirts don't play on their own, it's down to the players wearing them red shirts.

[kesey]

Since joining RAWK nearly 5 years ago, this is the 4th thread I've started, and it's the 3rd one in the last few weeks.

So, over to you...

I give you credit for starting the Auld Arses thread mate.

About Rafa?  I can see both sides of the argument FS. I's love to see him boss when the two dickhead yanks aren't here and in my heart of hearts I'd love to see Rafa winning the league for us. Will it happen? Fuck knows?

[xerxes1]

Fat Scouser is a star, and one step ahead of us all. I have found Roy Hodgkinson's cv, and he is quite a candidate:
Dr Roy W Hodgkinson, Chair CIF


Roy’s career has been based in manufacturing industries.  Born in Birmingham his career started in Electronics before moving to Rover Cars Birmingham Operations.  He held a number of positions, Industrial Engineering manager for Body and Assembly followed by establishing a number of new departments, i.e. “Plant and Production Engineering and “The New Model Centre”.  His final role was Director of projects where he managed the Honda manufacturing process engineering development team and facilities on the Rover 200 programme.  He joined Johnson Tiles as Manufacturing Director in charge of a workforce of 2000 employees, after 6 years moving to Divisional Manufacturing Director providing assistance for Johnson Tiles companies in South Africa, Australia, Greece and India.  He returned to the UK operation after 7 years to manage manufacturing at their new £35 million facility.  Prior to his retirement, from Johnson’s, in 2009 he was Deputy Managing Director for 3 years.  Roy has an MSc and PhD from Coventry University; he is also an Honorary Doctor at Staffordshire University.  Other Non Exec roles he retains are Chair of CIF (Ceramic Industry Forum) and also Chair of STEMNET for Staffordshire
http://www.mas-wm.org/about-us/board-members


Crucially he is avaiiable immediately, and we could look forwards to an immediate improvement in the quality of  the tiling in Anfield's toilets - he has my vote for that alone!

[slaphead]

Ok first of all good thread - and I sincerely hope it doesnt descend into a slanging match.
Ok - I want Rafa to leave. I think his time is up. I've lost the belief that Rafa can take us where we want to be.
And I will explain why.
1) First of all - the fear factor is gone, and once that goes its very hard to get back. Teams like the the boltons, stokes etc of this world now give themselves one hell of a chance of taking something from games against us. Even Wolves. McCarthy didn't give himself a prayer against the scum but would he do that against us ?
2) I dont like our football. Its not free flowing, its not attractive, its not enjoyable
3) Some players look disillusioned. Now I know the club is bigger than the players and all that, and I think you know who I'm talking about in the most part. But its at the stage where I am seriously starting to believe it will be one or the other that has to go.
4) Now this is a point that worries me - its honesty- or maybe opinion is a better word  I'm probably wrong, and this is probably his way of defending the team, but when asked if he agreed that we were lucky Reading didn't beat us in the first leg he said no - I mean come on. Either its his way us mind games, defending the team or whatever I dont know. But if he seriously thought we should have won that match.......and there have been a few instances of that.
5) There are, in my opinion, better options out there to freshen us up and help us get the spring back in our step - Hiddink, O'Neill maybe, Pep Guardiola (after all his father did say he would consider things as regards what his next move is), Jose ?? (sorry)

I just want to finish by saying the single biggest problem at our club is without doubt the owners, but at this stage, I cannot help but feel that Rafa has to step down.

[DaveCharlie]

I should have just called it Rafa out

Your post was too long, and your thread has the wrong title FS. No one who wants Rafa out a) thinks, or b) reads long posts. Its clear, to date, that this thread has only been read, and therefore answered by, the reasoned and balanced pro-Rafa crowd (myself included), i.e. those who "stop and think".

[Jimmy Case]

There is something very seriously wrong at our club at the moment, and like I said in the Hansen thread, every single person at the club from top to fucking bottom needs to take a good fucking look at themselves, roll their fucking sleeves up and FIGHT for our great club.
Those red shirts don't play on their own, it's down to the players wearing them red shirts.

I don't think it's that bad to be honest, Tex. The team's playing shite but I bet there's no more than that. Most of the other stuff is external. I agree with your solution, though,

[DaveCharlie]

Ok - I want Rafa to leave. I think his time is up. I've lost the belief that Rafa can take us where we want to be.
And I will explain why.

Thanks for proving me wrong by posting one minute before I did!

A good post slaphead. I don't agree on all your points, but at least you've backed your opinion with some reasoned explanations.

[Mr Mojo Risin']

'' So, fair enough.... you want Rafa out. Well, I've just partially stated why I want him to stay. But I hand it over to you now to say, why you want him out and what you think would happen once he's gone.''

What happened to the same thread earlier on? Get binned?

[Finn Solomon]

Good thread by Fat Souser, I started a similar one earlier but the tone was perhaps a little too confrontational and it was deservedly locked. Hopefully this one will last longer. Looking through the posts Killer Heels has come out with reasonable points concerning the manager. This is what I'd like to see more of rather than mindless attacks.

I don't want Rafa out and I still would keep him if I was the owner of the club, as well as trusting him with whatever money I could muster.

But I don't buy into the theory and belief that if he goes then we could not do better and we would be ruined. Thats my personal opinion anyway. I think that there are good managers out there who are on a par with him and could possibly do even better. He has had a handicap with the owner situation and having the situation the way it is may be difficult to manage for other managers like Mourinho. But I do think there are others who could handle it.

I respect your opinion, but I honestly don't think there is a better manager than Benitez who would be willing to come to the club. Are there better managers than Rafa? Yes, undoubtedly, but all of them will never leave their current positions. Therefore I honestly believe that any man coming in after Rafa is sacked will be a step down. With all the off-the-pitch turmoil this club has endured, there is not a single world class manager who would want the job.

Rafa cannot remain in the job just because the fear of someone else coming in is greater. Maybe the club would do worse with another manager and maybe we would fall into mid-table mediocrity. But that fear cannot be the reason for keeping someone in the job and really, no one knows what will happen. Its not impossible that someone could do even better?

I want Rafa's main reason for staying at this club to be for footballing reasons. Like I said, at the moment and based on his past achievements, he would still get another season for me, even if we failed to come 4th. I think he has done a decent job. Not a very good job, or a rubbish job, but a decent job.

It seems as though you're proposing to take a gamble regarding the manager's position. I'd agree with you only if our current situation wasn't so precarious. If we were rolling in cash and had a bit of boardroom stability, then perhaps I'd be more inclined to take a gamble. After all that's what happened with regards to Ged. But the risks and costs associated with failure as of the present day are enormous. We are not only competing with the Mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea, but City, Spurs and Villa as well. All of them have far more money than we do and in my opinion have better squads, if not starting XIs. If Rafa is sacked the new man would not only have a difficult transitional period, he would have to do so amidst the strongest threat to our European qualification in recent memory.

He won us the Champions League which was a great achievement and I guess that alone could elivate his tenure from a decent one into a good one. But in 5 full seasons we have only won 2 trophies, not won anything for 3 full seasons and only really had 1 title challenge. We have had the same issues in terms of a poor start and a strong finish (apart from last season, where we did have a good start) and you question as to whether he is learning from his mistakes.

Fair points, although you have to take into consideration the terrible luck we've had with regards to injuries. When the entire squad is fit and have a decent run of games under their belt, they always play superbly, which is an indicator of Rafa's coaching ability.

The transfers in the last 2 seasons have a question mark also. The ones in the start of 08/09 were terrible and as TB said in his column, the jury is still out on Glen Johnson and Aquilani (although I have no doubts about Johnson and I think that in the long term he will prove to be a good signing). Despite this I still think he has overall done good in the transfer market.

He hasn't done as well as he would have liked due to executive meddling. This isn't a made-up excuse, as Paul Tomkins' exclusive proved that he has missed out on first choice targets due to insufficient financial backing. I agree he has bought a few flops, but the majority of his purchases have been decent, some have been magnificent and if he was backed more strongly by the management then I have no doubt he would have gotten it right more often.

Despite the money issues however, I think we have had a good enough squad over the years to have had much better performances in the league and in the cups and the possibility of remaining trophyless for a 4th year and only 1 title challenge in 6 years reduces Rafa's stock.

I disagree. Our squad is definitely not as good as our immediate challengers. Our starting XI can beat anyone on its day but over the course of a long season we simply don't have the luxury of swapping out one superstar for another, as the Mancs and Chelsea and now City are capable of. Arsenal are on a similar budget, but they've hardly made a strong challenge for the title themselves. Add that to the injury problems we've had and Rafa hs quite frankly overachieved considering the resources he's got and the restrictions he has had to work under. No other manager has had to consider player wages as part of their transfer budget. No other manager has been forced to resist selling a player because he would not receive that money to reinvest in the squad.

[slaphead]

yeah I was just ab

Thanks for proving me wrong by posting one minute before I did!

A good post slaphead. I don't agree on all your points, but at least you've backed your opinion with some reasoned explanations.

Thanks for proving me wrong by posting one minute before I did!

A good post slaphead. I don't agree on all your points, but at least you've backed your opinion with some reasoned explanations.

I was just about to reply on your original one Dave but I thought I'd just leave it until you read it ha ha ha
I mean, too many threads here turn into a free for all so hopefully this one can be sensible, with decent fans and no dickheads - not counting on it though
Also, I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong.

[fromthepen]

Focusing all the time on Rafa, should he stay should he go? isn't the main concenr for me to be honest.

My sole concern is for the club and that alone, not the current manager, not the current players, but Liverpool football club, that I sold my soul to in 1965.

LFC are part of me and will be until I'm in the box on the way to the church. So lets get some perspective here and ask whats best for LFC, not for Rafa or Torres or Stevie or any of the others. It is only the club that will remain long after G&H, Rafa and his players have moved on, the diehards will still be there whatever state we are in.

We are in deep deep shite at the moment, in a downward spiral for all sorts of reasons and it could be said we are in a perfect storm scenario and the vultures (media) are circling with big grins on their faces.

The immediate situation is to find solutions as to how can we stabilise and halt this freefall?

It seems that for many the only option is to rely on Rafa's to lead the way out of this mess.........if he can then great and we sit back and give him our full support......BUT....its also fair to ask ....for how long? 

Is it unreasonable to also ask what if he can't pull the ship around and we stay in this rut? The question will still be what is best for the club then?....not what is best Rafa?....do we hold tight and pray that over the remainder of the season our form and luck changes? If thats plan B then it will be a bumpy ride thats for sure and we may well be in a deeper hole then.

Personally I think that right now , at this moment, the best plan is to give Rafa the chance to pull it around, maybe another 5 league games ...........and if he can't motivate the team, then review the situation then and give serious consideration to whats best for LFC at that time.

One of the options must be looking at another manager to have a go at lifting the players and steering this great club into calmer waters.  If we are still struggling than having continous 100% trust in Rafa whatever the situation may not be whats in the best interests of LFC in both the short and long term.

Ok, so lets back him for now but lets also keep a perspective of what is in the best interests of the club if in a months time we are still on the downward slope with no sign of an upturn.

 

[Fowler23]

I tried to access this site the day after Reading and i got the Ooops this link is broken page. Now that usually only happens when there is a high volume of traffic, my heart sunk, wondering what was going on, the first thing i did was Google Rafa.... top of the page said Rafa Benitez Sacked, my heart sank even further. It turned out to be the Ronnie Whealan story.
What i'm trying to say is i don't know what to think any more really. I'm sick of defending us to blues and mancs and other reds but when i read that headline my first thought was God No.

I want Rafa to stay and prove everyone wrong but he better sort this shit out soon because any one else would have gone a long time ago. I still trust him, for how long i can't say...

[Mr Mojo Risin']

I mean, too many threads here turn into a free for all so hopefully this one can be sensible, with decent fans and no dickheads - not counting on it though
 

Wow, you can deduct who's who by what means?
Does someone who shouts he's had enough of Rafa become the dickhead? Or the fan
who backs him no matter what.?
As long as people make up their own minds, as opposed to gleaning their thoughts from
the shite that is the media, then that's all that matters.

I'll stick with Rafa for several reasons, two main ones being there isn't anyone out
there to better him right now, and the way he has been treated by his bosses is
nothing short of disgraceful.
Also, what are the players up to? Can they not dig in that little bit deeper to take
some heat off their manager? Can they fuck the primadonna c*nts.
signed, dickhead.

[Chivasino]

No good whatsoever would come from Rafa leaving.

None.

This.

[Stanfo]

Focusing all the time on Rafa, should he stay should he go? isn't the main concenr for me to be honest.

My sole concern is for the club and that alone, not the current manager, not the current players, but Liverpool football club, that I sold my soul to in 1965.

LFC are part of me and will be until I'm in the box on the way to the church. So lets get some perspective here and ask whats best for LFC, not for Rafa or Torres or Stevie or any of the others. It is only the club that will remain long after G&H, Rafa and his players have moved on, the diehards will still be there whatever state we are in.

We are in deep deep shite at the moment, in a downward spiral for all sorts of reasons and it could be said we are in a perfect storm scenario and the vultures (media) are circling with big grins on their faces.

The immediate situation is to find solutions as to how can we stabilise and halt this freefall?

It seems that for many the only option is to rely on Rafa's to lead the way out of this mess.........if he can then great and we sit back and give him our full support......BUT....its also fair to ask ....for how long? 

Is it unreasonable to also ask what if he can't pull the ship around and we stay in this rut? The question will still be what is best for the club then?....not what is best Rafa?....do we hold tight and pray that over the remainder of the season our form and luck changes? If thats plan B then it will be a bumpy ride thats for sure and we may well be in a deeper hole then.

Personally I think that right now , at this moment, the best plan is to give Rafa the chance to pull it around, maybe another 5 league games ...........and if he can't motivate the team, then review the situation then and give serious consideration to whats best for LFC at that time.

One of the options must be looking at another manager to have a go at lifting the players and steering this great club into calmer waters.  If we are still struggling than having continous 100% trust in Rafa whatever the situation may not be whats in the best interests of LFC in both the short and long term.

Ok, so lets back him for now but lets also keep a perspective of what is in the best interests of the club if in a months time we are still on the downward slope with no sign of an upturn.

 

Excellent post. Give him until the end of the season to turn things around and then review the situation.

[rickythered]

The predicament where in now is when your man management skills come to the fore, your ability to get inside your players heads offer an understanding and sympathetic ear for some and deliver a few simple truths to others and a good kick up the arse if need be. You see in my opinion that is Rafa's downfall, tactically he's second to none but he has an inability to to bring the best out of his players and a stubborness to see past his favourtism to certain players regardless of there form on the pitch has come home to roost.

[Carlito Roberto]

Haha it's now become the 'we want Rafa to stay' thread.

So in keeping with the rest of the comments, Rafa please stay.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

I dont wont him out. I moan at him on these boards cus it hurts. He has been let down by players not that he is perfect. The football is atrocious. long ball, lack of any skill etc.

But in Rafa, we have a man who works so hard for this club. He stood by the club when the dirty was done on him and i will by him. He loves us and i love him.

he needs to change though astop allowing thse aimless long balls etc the stuff we all moan about week in week out.

Thats my worry, its week after week, month after month. He either does not see it or the players dont listen.

[DangerScouse]

I dont wont him out. I moan at him on these boards cus it hurts. He has been let down by players not that he is perfect. The football is atrocious. long ball, lack of any skill etc.

But in Rafa, we have a man who works so hard for this club. He stood by the club when the dirty was done on him and i will by him. He loves us and i love him.

he needs to change though astop allowing thse aimless long balls etc the stuff we all moan about week in week out.

Thats my worry, its week after week, month after month. He either does not see it or the players dont listen.

Can't argue with any of that. Well said.

[wednesday25052005]

Fat Scouser iam of a similar age to your good self and i have seen the great and the bad that this wonderful club has to offer. We live in a world were this once great club has been reduced to a media pillory were we place our manager in full view of these ignorant bastards who copy and paste insults and twisted opinion as fact.
In many ways this is indicative of modern society were repacious greed has replaced morality and conscious,and in doing so feeds the need to blame when failure has taken place.
We as both a club and a city stood for self belief and would back people who tried their upmost to do their best for the club or city.
Now we have started to show the first signs of that position changing at a faster pace than ever before.
We as supporters have a opportunity to stand against this repugnant tide,stand up for Rafa sing his name loud and proud. Make the sad hacks who pump out there bile week in week out realise that they may convince "tarquin from essex" that we are finished but he will never convince us.
Stop ringing the pathetic talkshows and their plastic hosts which only fuel their bonfire of vanity.
We are different from all the other clubs...remember that and if you cannot then go somewere else. We are Liverpool football club who are a beacon of red light to others who believe that somethings in life are more important than just winning a silver pot every season. If you dont believe in that then we might as well put away our proud banners and songs and wave plastic flags issued by the next set of owners looking to make the "brand"more attractive to the media whore.
Ask yourself in the mirror what would Shankly say about sacking our manager?

Boss - That is what we are about solidarity and inspiration.

Well put wet

[slaphead]

Wow, you can deduct who's who by what means?
Does someone who shouts he's had enough of Rafa become the dickhead? Or the fan
who backs him no matter what.?
As long as people make up their own minds, as opposed to gleaning their thoughts from
the shite that is the media, then that's all that matters.

I'll stick with Rafa for several reasons, two main ones being there isn't anyone out
there to better him right now, and the way he has been treated by his bosses is
nothing short of disgraceful.
Also, what are the players up to? Can they not dig in that little bit deeper to take
some heat off their manager? Can they fuck the primadonna c*nts.
signed, dickhead.

Dickheads are people who get personal about one another as a way of soring points, who brings threads down to a level where they have to be closed.
Anyone with an opinion is more than entitled to it - whatever it may be - and don't deserve to be insulted.
Debates and indeed heated debates are the dogs bullox, so hopefully this can be a proper debate thread and run a nice length