Author Topic: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez (Read 17878 times)

Spanish Fan · « **Reply #80 on:** October 30, 2007, 01:51:22 pm »

Quote from: pinky on October 30, 2007, 01:13:47 pm

Carra, Riise, Finnan and Hyypia are very good team players but none of them can be described as footballers that mark a difference. Out of the players Rafa has signed since he took over I'd say just Alonso or Torres can be labelled as players who are particularly talented. Agger is also a very technical player but his influence in attack is more limited due to his position.

The most talented players are the most expensive ones, but had Rafa gone for those type of players since the beggining he'd not been able to rebuild a strong squad which is one of the bases for Benitez's way of working.

Having said this, I think Rafa expected some of his signings to have worked better than they did. He probably saw players like Pennant or Mark Gonzalez and thought their performances would be very good in relation to the price paid for them.

Out of all the players Benitez has signed I rate Reina, Fabio Aurelio, Agger, Mascherano, Xabi Alonso, Lucas and Torres with enough ability to be first choice in a top side. I am undecided about Babel. The rest are squad players in my eyes. But Benitez builds squads rather than teams, and he believes that running more kilometers will compensate for the lack of technical ability. I think his fondness for rotation is very much related to this idea.

-HH- · « **Reply #81 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:00:16 pm »

Quote from: Life on October 30, 2007, 01:47:45 pm

In terms of attacking, we're woefully worse off than Utd, Cheslea and Arsenal. Torres apart, we have no-one that would trouble their first choice players, and conversely, Rooney, Tevez, Saha, Ronaldo, Giiggs, Nani, Drogba, Shevchenko, Cole, Malouda, Van Persie, Hleb and Rosicky would all walk into our team. I reckon Adebayour would be challenging too.

Saha, Nani, Rosicky and Shevchenko wouldn't walk into our team at all. The others probably would. You seem to have left out Gerrard as an attacking player despite including the likes of Hleb and Rosicky. Take out those inclusions (and I have because they're incorrect) and you're talking 11 players between 3 clubs, which is between 3 and 4 players per their club, and 2 from ours (Gerrard and Torres). That's a gap, but not a massive one by any means and I don't think one that will be reflected at the end of the season.

Garstonite · « **Reply #82 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:01:45 pm »

To be fair, Rosicky and Nani are better than anything we have on the wings.

-HH- · « **Reply #83 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:04:31 pm »

Quote from: Garstonite on October 30, 2007, 02:01:45 pm

To be fair, Rosicky and Nani are better than anything we have on the wings.

I'd say an arsed Gerrard would be better on either side, to be honest.

cuppatea · « **Reply #84 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:07:58 pm »

Unfortunately, as far as attacking personnel goes, Rafa has mostly replaced average with slightly above average.

Pennant, Kuyt, Voronin etc. may be an improvement upon the players Rafa inherited in those positions but essentially, like their predecessors, they're not good enough for a league winning side, at least not as anything more than squad players.

Garstonite · « **Reply #85 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:22:28 pm »

Quote from: -HH- on October 30, 2007, 02:04:31 pm

I'd say an arsed Gerrard would be better on either side, to be honest.

I prefer Gerrard out wide, but he is quite predictable in that position, it has to be said. One true mark of a great winger is the ability to do the unexpected. Nani seems to have this. Rosicky does as well, but to a lesser extent.

The attacking side of our game would have improved immensely had we signed a Mancini/Quaresma. I hate this sort of post as much as the next guy, but it has to be said that it's true. If the formation we used against Arsenal is anything to go by, a winger in the mould of the two players I mentioned wouldn't be burdened with much defensive responsibility either. I mean, they would have to close things down in the way Voronin/Kuyt did on Sunday, but they wouldn't have to do much work in their own half of the field.

Life · « **Reply #86 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:22:35 pm »

Quote from: -HH- on October 30, 2007, 02:00:16 pm

Saha, Nani, Rosicky and Shevchenko wouldn't walk into our team at all. The others probably would. You seem to have left out Gerrard as an attacking player despite including the likes of Hleb and Rosicky. Take out those inclusions (and I have because they're incorrect) and you're talking 11 players between 3 clubs, which is between 3 and 4 players per their club, and 2 from ours (Gerrard and Torres). That's a gap, but not a massive one by any means and I don't think one that will be reflected at the end of the season.

Gerrard rarely gets the position he got on Sunday, so I didn't include him. Rosicky and Hleb are purely attacking players, usually played wide.
Nani wouldn't walk into our team? What, he wouldn't displace Riise on the left-wing? Or Babel? Or Voronin? Are you mad?
Saha is injury prone which is a big mark against him, but he's got more skill, pace and movement than all our strikers bar Torres. Granted he's a poor comparison to what Crouch brings to the table, but he's every bit as good as Kuyt and Voronin and I'd swap them in a second.
Rosicky would deffo replace Pennant/Babel/Benayoun.
Shevchenko you might have a point based on his performances in England, but I bet there's not many wouldn't swap Voronin, Crouch or Kuyt for him.

You can't have Gerrard as a purely attacking player, because he's not unless he's out on the right.
We have Torres, and that's it. We're missing a top class left-winger, a top class right-winger and another top class striker/forward. Why we weren't busting a gut to get Tevez I don't know...surely with Mascherano already here (and other Argies) and having gone through the whole MSI thing already we'd have been in the box seat. Man U got him simply because he's top class and was available...but they don't need him. We needed him or a player like him.

And you might have a point on the gap hinting that there's not a big difference in quality because I do think we'll be near the top and not too many points away. But I think that will be misleading and will actuall be a credit to Benitez's ability and our superiority in other areas of the pitch in comparison. I wouldn't swap Reina, Agger, Arbeloa, Finnan, Mascherano, Alonso or Gerrard for any of their oppos in the other 3 teams.

Art Vandelay · « **Reply #87 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:49:58 pm »

What I wouldn't give to see an at-his-peak Donadoni in our team.

LiamG · « **Reply #88 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:51:59 pm »

I was miffed we didnt sign Tevez

Juan Loco · « **Reply #89 on:** October 30, 2007, 03:17:13 pm »

Quote from: Garstonite on October 30, 2007, 02:01:45 pm

To be fair, Rosicky and Nani are better than anything we have on the wings.

Don't rate Nani, but he's young so I'll skip over that... What's with the Rosicky wank-fest though? trade him with Benayoun and people would be saying the same things again about him.

Just looking at Rosicky's record last season - 3 goals and 3 assists. So far domestically this year it's 2 goals and 1 assist. That's alright I guess. I'd love to see how he compares to Benayoun, who (somehow) isn't even a starter.

People do our attack a disservice. It isn't the best around, I wouldn't claim otherwise, but people see alot more of our attack and pick faults in it. They see the Mancs, Chelsea and Arsenal in highlights maybe for the most part. Last year our batch of 4 strikers were only out-scored by Chelsea's. It was midfield where we lacked.

Someone like Rooney, Tevez, Van Persie or Drogba would waltz into our starting 11. Someone like Adebayor, Pizarro, Eduardo et al would not, and I don't think players like Nani would either.

The sad thing is that I can say right now, with 100% belief, that if you stuck Kuyt, Babel or Benayoun into those sides mentioned, they'd do so much better than they do here. Benayoun at Arsenal would be right at home. Kuyt would actually get a game as a striker at Arsenal (or United, though he wouldn't usurp either of their two strikers). Babel likewise, would get games and far more of the ball in dangerous positions.

I don't think that if we'd have signed Nani instead of Babel this summer, or Rosicky last year instead of Benayoun this, we'd be in a better situation now. The problem is as much about style of play and trepidation with the ball as it is about personnel. Perhaps more so. Call it a problem with Rafa's 'negative approach' if you want, but I don't buy that personally. I think we lack players with the mentality, and the ego even, of Mancs and Arsenal. Van Persie, Henry, Pires, Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Robben - they're all horrible, full of themselves, give-me-the-ball-and-I'll-prove-I'm-better-than-you wankers. When was the last time we had one of those? A player with unshakable self-assurance.

Said it a few times recently but this squad lacks a few players who are winners. A nastiness, a certain ego. Whatever you want to call it. A specific hungry mentality that we hinted at in the first 2 or 3 games of the season but haven't touched at since. There's no self-confidence, no self-motivation.

SMD · « **Reply #90 on:** October 30, 2007, 03:32:05 pm »

Quote from: Life on October 30, 2007, 11:12:39 am

Not exactly a good argument that. The same was said during Houllier's last year in charge, and the answer was one that very few of us could envisage.

That said, I'd be completely amazed if Rafa is kicked out full stop, never mind at the end of this season. He might leave for a team like Real Madrid, but I think he'll be here as long as he wants to be here.

Anyway, the way I read that was that our players are sub-standard...and there's no reason for that anymore. We should be shopping in the same market as Milan...and in fact, I'd be surprised if their squad cost more than ours as it happens.

Not exactly an argument, more of an after thought. In Houllier's last year, though, there were quite a few possible candidates for the job.

As for Milan, when you have someone like Maldini come up through the ranks, as well as players like Kaka coming in cheap as youngsters, the cost is bound to be lower. Add in to the fact that Milan's players seem to last forever and they don't need to replace the entire squad at once and expenditure can be focused on fewer, more quality players.

Quote from: booooooooo_joseph on October 30, 2007, 01:25:14 pm

Yes..that is what I meant. I just wanted to phrase it in a way that wouldnt be disrepectful to the lesser teams in the Premier league.

Rafa really needs to find a way to ''open'' the team up. I hope that he can, but it will take a good few years to do it.

We have the players to do that, they just don't seem to do it often enough. Whether it's the system, the rumours of lack of attacking instruction or just the lack of stability in attacking players (our frontline is unrecognisable from a few seasons ago - our defence is almost the same), it's hard to tell with all the variables at once.

It'd be great to take one thing and keep everything constant, tweaking until we could see what was wrong. I guess if that could happen, Rafa would've done it already.

Johnnyboy1973 · « **Reply #91 on:** October 30, 2007, 03:55:43 pm »

That Nani lad, looks quality to me.

pinky · « **Reply #92 on:** October 30, 2007, 06:23:27 pm »

Quote from: Spanish Fan on October 30, 2007, 01:51:22 pm

Out of all the players Benitez has signed I rate Reina, Fabio Aurelio, Agger, Mascherano, Xabi Alonso, Lucas and Torres with enough ability to be first choice in a top side. I am undecided about Babel. The rest are squad players in my eyes. But Benitez builds squads rather than teams, and he believes that running more kilometers will compensate for the lack of technical ability. I think his fondness for rotation is very much related to this idea.

Agreed. Reina is a top class goalkeeper, but the only way he constributes to the attacking side of the team (which is the area I think Sacchi identifies when he referes to the lack of talent Liverpool have) is by his excellent distribution of the ball. Fabio Aurelio is class, but spends more time injured than not. Mascherano is still on loan, isn't he? I guess his price won't be as low as Benitez would desire. I like Lucas but I see him more of a player for the future, same as Babel.

A good question would be, apart from whether Benitez buys enough talent or not, does he encourage his quality players' talent? Does his obsession for tactics inhibit his players from taking decisions when they attack?

The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society · « **Reply #93 on:** October 30, 2007, 06:59:10 pm »

Quote from: jambutty on October 29, 2007, 11:34:39 pm

Of course, what this means, dear dissatisfieds, is that unless you can name a better manager than the one we have,

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET HIM ACHIEVE HIS VISION!

I think this post should replace 90% of threads on the liverpool fc forum

rebel23 · « **Reply #94 on:** October 30, 2007, 07:28:48 pm »

Benitez needs to improve in signing creative/talented players for the first team, we should be looking at Nasri and Quaresma as two potentials that could be available in the summer

we could probably do with 2 new strikers as well as a left back and central defender to replace Riise and Hypia

Life · « **Reply #95 on:** October 30, 2007, 08:17:39 pm »

Quote from: The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society on October 30, 2007, 06:59:10 pm

I think this post should replace 90% of threads on the liverpool fc forum

I think it's yet another inane meaningless pointless post, and I'm bored seeing them on here.

We could all just say "in rafa we trust" a few times a day on here, and admire the other posters creativity on type font used.
Then in the pub before the match sit round and say "in rafa we trust" and nod sagely at one another, maybe make those that said it in a slightly questioning way go and stand in the corner for 10 minutes.
During the match we could all agree loudly and in one voice "in rafa we trust", and afterwards text our mates to say how happy we are, and re-iterate that "in rafa we trust"...as we piss our pants...slowly...without noticing...

LFCDore · « **Reply #96 on:** October 30, 2007, 08:35:43 pm »

I was checking the wiki page on Rafa and some manc c*nts must have made nasty changes...

someone should edit this...i dont know how to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafa_Benitez

redmark · « **Reply #97 on:** October 30, 2007, 09:06:53 pm »

Quote from: LFCDore on October 30, 2007, 08:35:43 pm

I was checking the wiki page on Rafa and some manc c*nts must have made nasty changes...

someone should edit this...i dont know how to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafa_Benitez

I've reverted it to a clean version. It seems from the discussion page that Liverpool fans aren't always blameless though, using the page to call Everton a small club.

The 'fat Rafa' edits were ongoing a while ago; if it needs reverting again, the

20:47, 30 October 2007 Redmark (Talk | contribs) (30,401 bytes) (Revert - vandalism) (undo)

is safe to revert to (go to "history" tab, then click the date on the line as above. When it loads, click "edit this page". Scroll down a little, type "Revert - Vandalism" in the 'edit summary' box, and click "Save Page".

The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society · « **Reply #98 on:** October 30, 2007, 09:07:27 pm »

Quote from: Life on October 30, 2007, 08:17:39 pm

I think it's yet another inane meaningless pointless post, and I'm bored seeing them on here.

We could all just say "in rafa we trust" a few times a day on here, and admire the other posters creativity on type font used.
Then in the pub before the match sit round and say "in rafa we trust" and nod sagely at one another, maybe make those that said it in a slightly questioning way go and stand in the corner for 10 minutes.
During the match we could all agree loudly and in one voice "in rafa we trust", and afterwards text our mates to say how happy we are, and re-iterate that "in rafa we trust"...as we piss our pants...slowly...without noticing...

that's the spirit

but seriously name someone you'd realistically rather have?

Corkboy · « **Reply #99 on:** October 30, 2007, 09:12:46 pm »

"Liverpool know all the secrets of football because their coach knows them all and because that club knows them from long ago."

I think that's the most poetic description I've heard of Liverpool Football Club. Ever.

jambutty · « **Reply #100 on:** October 30, 2007, 09:28:20 pm »

Quote from: Life on October 30, 2007, 08:17:39 pm

I think it's yet another inane meaningless pointless post, and I'm bored seeing them on here.

Who's your choice then, genius?

underscore · « **Reply #101 on:** October 30, 2007, 09:29:27 pm »

good read the interviews SF thanks as always

Life · « **Reply #102 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:34:36 pm »

Quote from: jambutty on October 30, 2007, 09:28:20 pm

Who's your choice then, genius?

What? Are you serious? I can't have a single view on the team selection, tactics, purchases or anything at LFC until I've got an alternative manager in mind and prove that the alternative manager would work better? How do you want me to prove it? Etcha-sketch or magic sand?

You're an idiot. All the more stupid because you think you're in some way wise.

I don't want another manager just to make it clear to you. I doubt many do. That doesn't mean we should just all sit here dribbling from the corners of our mouths and asking for more ice-cream nurse as we mutter "if you can't think of anyone better, shut the fuck up and let him achieve his vision".

LFCDore · « **Reply #103 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:45:45 pm »

Quote from: redmark on October 30, 2007, 09:06:53 pm

I've reverted it to a clean version. It seems from the discussion page that Liverpool fans aren't always blameless though, using the page to call Everton a small club.

The 'fat Rafa' edits were ongoing a while ago; if it needs reverting again, the

20:47, 30 October 2007 Redmark (Talk | contribs) (30,401 bytes) (Revert - vandalism) (undo)

is safe to revert to (go to "history" tab, then click the date on the line as above. When it loads, click "edit this page". Scroll down a little, type "Revert - Vandalism" in the 'edit summary' box, and click "Save Page".

someone edited back to fat rafa but i changed it again using your instruction. will be keeping an eye on it. fucking bitters piss me off.

Life · « **Reply #104 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:59:13 pm »

Jesus, "fat rafa" is getting you all worked up...let it go...let it go...there's a bloke here saying you can't say anything about the team whatsoever unless you're willing to get another manager in...fight the fights worth fighting. As Elliot Ness never quite said.

Notayesman · « **Reply #105 on:** October 30, 2007, 11:04:07 pm »

Quote from: Juan Loco on October 30, 2007, 03:17:13 pm

Don't rate Nani, but he's young so I'll skip over that... What's with the Rosicky wank-fest though? trade him with Benayoun and people would be saying the same things again about him.

Just looking at Rosicky's record last season - 3 goals and 3 assists. So far domestically this year it's 2 goals and 1 assist. That's alright I guess. I'd love to see how he compares to Benayoun, who (somehow) isn't even a starter.

People do our attack a disservice. It isn't the best around, I wouldn't claim otherwise, but people see alot more of our attack and pick faults in it. They see the Mancs, Chelsea and Arsenal in highlights maybe for the most part. Last year our batch of 4 strikers were only out-scored by Chelsea's. It was midfield where we lacked.

Someone like Rooney, Tevez, Van Persie or Drogba would waltz into our starting 11. Someone like Adebayor, Pizarro, Eduardo et al would not, and I don't think players like Nani would either.

The sad thing is that I can say right now, with 100% belief, that if you stuck Kuyt, Babel or Benayoun into those sides mentioned, they'd do so much better than they do here. Benayoun at Arsenal would be right at home. Kuyt would actually get a game as a striker at Arsenal (or United, though he wouldn't usurp either of their two strikers). Babel likewise, would get games and far more of the ball in dangerous positions.

I don't think that if we'd have signed Nani instead of Babel this summer, or Rosicky last year instead of Benayoun this, we'd be in a better situation now. The problem is as much about style of play and trepidation with the ball as it is about personnel. Perhaps more so. Call it a problem with Rafa's 'negative approach' if you want, but I don't buy that personally. I think we lack players with the mentality, and the ego even, of Mancs and Arsenal. Van Persie, Henry, Pires, Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Robben - they're all horrible, full of themselves, give-me-the-ball-and-I'll-prove-I'm-better-than-you wankers. When was the last time we had one of those? A player with unshakable self-assurance.

Said it a few times recently but this squad lacks a few players who are winners. A nastiness, a certain ego. Whatever you want to call it. A specific hungry mentality that we hinted at in the first 2 or 3 games of the season but haven't touched at since. There's no self-confidence, no self-motivation.

All that sounds about right.

-HH- · « **Reply #106 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:18:12 am »

Quote from: Juan Loco on October 30, 2007, 03:17:13 pm

The sad thing is that I can say right now, with 100% belief, that if you stuck Kuyt, Babel or Benayoun into those sides mentioned, they'd do so much better than they do here. Benayoun at Arsenal would be right at home. Kuyt would actually get a game as a striker at Arsenal (or United, though he wouldn't usurp either of their two strikers). Babel likewise, would get games and far more of the ball in dangerous positions.

I don't think that if we'd have signed Nani instead of Babel this summer, or Rosicky last year instead of Benayoun this, we'd be in a better situation now. The problem is as much about style of play and trepidation with the ball as it is about personnel. Perhaps more so. Call it a problem with Rafa's 'negative approach' if you want, but I don't buy that personally. I think we lack players with the mentality, and the ego even, of Mancs and Arsenal. Van Persie, Henry, Pires, Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Robben - they're all horrible, full of themselves, give-me-the-ball-and-I'll-prove-I'm-better-than-you wankers. When was the last time we had one of those? A player with unshakable self-assurance.

Said it a few times recently but this squad lacks a few players who are winners. A nastiness, a certain ego. Whatever you want to call it. A specific hungry mentality that we hinted at in the first 2 or 3 games of the season but haven't touched at since. There's no self-confidence, no self-motivation.

Cracking post that. Though I still think when we get the likes of Torres and Alonso back we can make a challenge. That's because Alonso makes our football tick and because Torres does the something out of nothing that turns draws into wins and defeats into draws that will help put a lot of points on the board. That and I don't think anyone will run away with the league this year. I reckon between 85 and 90 points to win the league this year. At the moment we're on target for 76, which to me puts us within striking range of a title challenge, and that's without yet hitting form (or rather hitting it early on before stumbling).

shanklyboy · « **Reply #107 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:47:56 am »

Fuck Arsenal.
What have they won since Rafa took over at Liverpool.

Champions and unbeaten in 2003/04.
Talk about a position of strength! Since then they have won the F.A Cup.
What the fuck would the reaction be if Rafa had only won that in 4 years.l

Nobody gave them a chance at the start of the season, now they are the best team ever to walk onto a football pitch.
We were as effective if not more effective than them and had to contend with 2 major unforced changes which had a real impact on our game.
So they play nice football, so what? Reading did last season. On Sunday they had 1 shot on target.

If that had been us, the cry would have been 'Rafa got lucky.......1 shot on target and we scrape a point' 'Rafa is too negative...we'll never win the league if we only have 1 shot on target'. 'We are a 1 man team'

I'm sick to death of people picking on every single thing we do. Every negative is blown out of all proportion and every positive is minimised.
It's bad enough having gobshite pundits slagging everything about us off without our own being 10 times worse.

Have a debate.......air your views....... but get some fucking perspective eh?

jambutty · « **Reply #108 on:** October 31, 2007, 01:47:10 am »

Quote from: Life on October 30, 2007, 10:34:36 pm

What? Are you serious? I can't have a single view on the team selection, tactics, purchases or anything at LFC until I've got an alternative manager in mind and prove that the alternative manager would work better? How do you want me to prove it? Etcha-sketch or magic sand?

You're an idiot. All the more stupid because you think you're in some way wise.

I don't want another manager just to make it clear to you. I doubt many do. That doesn't mean we should just all sit here dribbling from the corners of our mouths and asking for more ice-cream nurse as we mutter "if you can't think of anyone better, shut the fuck up and let him achieve his vision".

You can have and express any view you like.

But he's our manaher and most of us are happy with him.

Bitch and moan all you like.

But if you think you're not creating an undercurrent of discontent, you're mistaken, ~~softshite~~ sunshine.

(And you're nowhere near as clever as Rafa).

zero zero · « **Reply #109 on:** June 8, 2008, 10:45:50 am »

Interesting article on the evolution on football tactics (Bizarre ManU bias, but don't let that put you off).

On Arrigo Sacchi

That his philosophy was effective can hardly be doubted, but it did not make his system popular with the players. Ruud Gullit, in particular, objected to the repetitive training sessions necessary to develop the required level of mutual understanding.

'I told him that five organised players would always beat 10 disorganised ones,' Sacchi explained. 'And I proved it to them. I took five players: Giovanni Galli in goal, Tassotti, Maldini, Costacurta and Baresi. They had 10 players: Gullit, Van Basten, Rijkaard, Virdis, Evani, Ancelotti, Colombo, Donadoni, Lantignotti and Mannari. They had 15 minutes to score against my five players and the only rule was that if we won possession or they lost the ball, they had to start over from 10 metres inside their own half. I did this all the time and they never scored. Not once.'[/b]

Sacchi insists that football has not advanced from his great side. 'Many believe that football is about the players expressing themselves,' he said. 'But that's not the case. Or, rather, it's not the case in and of itself. The player needs to express himself within the parameters laid out by the manager.'

Sacchi is scathing of the modern trend for 4-2-3-1, believing the use of two midfield 'holders' to provide a platform for the creators as pandering to the egos of those attacking players - which may explain the brevity of his spell as sporting director at Real Madrid in the galacticos era, when Claude Makelele was expected to provide defensive cover for Zinedine Zidane and Luis Figo. Like Lobanovskyi, he values 'universality', those willing take on more than one role.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/06/08/the_end_of_forward_thinking.html

myrlas · « **Reply #110 on:** June 8, 2008, 11:11:03 am »

Quote from: zero zero on June 8, 2008, 10:45:50 am

Sacchi is scathing of the modern trend for 4-2-3-1, believing the use of two midfield 'holders' to provide a platform for the creators as pandering to the egos of those attacking players - which may explain the brevity of his spell as sporting director at Real Madrid in the galacticos era, when Claude Makelele was expected to provide defensive cover for Zinedine Zidane and Luis Figo. Like Lobanovskyi, he values 'universality', those willing take on more than one role.

Couldn't agree more.

Sacci's 4-4-2 didn't have luxury players. The old Italy always played 4 in midfield.

LFC when it suits · « **Reply #111 on:** June 8, 2008, 11:24:17 am »

Quote from: rebel23 on October 30, 2007, 07:28:48 pm

Benitez needs to improve in signing creative/talented players for the first team, we should be looking at Nasri and Quaresma as two potentials that could be available in the summer

How about you stump up the case and I am sure Benitez would love to sign those players.

DonkeyWan · « **Reply #112 on:** June 8, 2008, 12:15:48 pm »

Great read and one of the reasons imo, an English or even British coach from the current era is just not viable as a Liverpool coach or even a top 4 coach. The level of insight and knowledge of the game displayed by Sacchi and Benitez in interviews is fantastic. Compare it to media heads from the UK "110%, English players for Ingurland, he ran in there the number 8 and banged it home, power, pace precision" and that includeshe likes of MON when he appears on ITV.

Could you imagine Someone like MON coming up against Sacchi? Sacchi would have told his players to try deep balls, go wide, play in behind find space in the hole etc. MON would have told his players to go out and their best. British coaches need to go back to basics and stop learning their trade from TV.

BazC · « **Reply #113 on:** June 8, 2008, 01:20:59 pm »

Quote from: myrlas on June 8, 2008, 11:11:03 am

Couldn't agree more.

Sacci's 4-4-2 didn't have luxury players. The old Italy always played 4 in midfield.

fuck it. Let's do the Christmas tree again. In fact, let's stem development and regress in other areas...

myrlas · « **Reply #114 on:** June 8, 2008, 06:14:09 pm »

Quote from: BazC on June 8, 2008, 01:20:59 pm

fuck it. Let's do the Christmas tree again. In fact, let's stem development and regress in other areas...

Really?

Garstonite · « **Reply #115 on:** June 9, 2008, 02:59:45 pm »

Quote from: zero zero on June 8, 2008, 10:45:50 am

Sacchi is scathing of the modern trend for 4-2-3-1, believing the use of two midfield 'holders' to provide a platform for the creators as pandering to the egos of those attacking players - which may explain the brevity of his spell as sporting director at Real Madrid in the galacticos era, when Claude Makelele was expected to provide defensive cover for Zinedine Zidane and Luis Figo. Like Lobanovskyi, he values 'universality', those willing take on more than one role.

I always love reading what Sacchi has to say, but maybe somebody should remind him not every side has three defensive legends of the game to boast as his Milan side of the late 80s did. The merits of having two defensive midfield players are evident. It provides a platform for attacking players to build from, but to be executed at its best requires attacking full-backs - an area we've seeked to improve this summer.

Phil M · « **Reply #116 on:** June 9, 2008, 03:41:59 pm »

Quote from: zero zero on June 8, 2008, 10:45:50 am

'I told him that five organised players would always beat 10 disorganised ones,' Sacchi explained. 'And I proved it to them. I took five players: Giovanni Galli in goal, Tassotti, Maldini, Costacurta and Baresi. They had 10 players: Gullit, Van Basten, Rijkaard, Virdis, Evani, Ancelotti, Colombo, Donadoni, Lantignotti and Mannari. They had 15 minutes to score against my five players and the only rule was that if we won possession or they lost the ball, they had to start over from 10 metres inside their own half. I did this all the time and they never scored. Not once.'[/b]

Baresi just said "..listen lads, one of you fuckers scores today and you'll be leaving on a stretcher.."

Worked every time.

KurtVerbose · « **Reply #117 on:** June 9, 2008, 06:00:55 pm »

Quote from: Garstonite on June 9, 2008, 02:59:45 pm

I always love reading what Sacchi has to say, but maybe somebody should remind him not every side has three defensive legends of the game to boast as his Milan side of the late 80s did. The merits of having two defensive midfield players are evident. It provides a platform for attacking players to build from, but to be executed at its best requires attacking full-backs - an area we've seeked to improve this summer.

Yeah, I thought it was a strange thing for him to say. 4-2-3-1 doesn't necessarily mean more attacking or more defensive, it can be either, and is just as disciplined as 4-4-2.

zero zero · « **Reply #118 on:** June 9, 2008, 06:43:46 pm »

Quote from: KurtVerbose on June 9, 2008, 06:00:55 pm

Yeah, I thought it was a strange thing for him to say. 4-2-3-1 doesn't necessarily mean more attacking or more defensive, it can be either, and is just as disciplined as 4-4-2.

To be fair Sacchi doesn't actually say that in the article - It says he's scathing but there is no direct quote. If it's true, it's interesting as we know how much Rafa has been influenced by Sacchi's methods and ideas.

royhendo · « **Reply #119 on:** June 9, 2008, 06:58:53 pm »

everyone is so wedded to the idea of formations.

sacchi's point isn't that 4-4-2 is better than 4-2-3-1 per se - his point is that an organised 4-4-2 is better than a disorganised 4-4-2, and an organised 4-2-3-1 is better than a disorganised 4-2-3-1.

he criticises using two defensive midfielders only in the context that it's used as a license for unplanned, disorganised football, where players like gullit get to 'express themselves' and do whatever they want.

Author Topic: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez (Read 17878 times)

royhendo