Author Topic: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.  (Read 42660 times)

Offline classycarra

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1000 on: May 3, 2024, 02:28:50 pm »
Wait. Is Greta bad in here now? This place boggles me sometimes.
the more mind boggling thing is you taking one person suggesting an individual taking lots of global flights isn't great and turning it into a generalisation of tens of thousands of RAWKites to be fair

as is reacting like that to one very soft critique of her. don't see how putting her up as some idol is necessary

Offline LuverlyRita

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1001 on: May 3, 2024, 02:29:31 pm »
you seem to be basing a lot of your response on feelings. have you tried looking into the things you're saying?

you can look at her interview if you'd like - https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1779444472297685441 - she can't handle the slightest of softball questioning of her suggestion that the current (2010-2019) level of new housing avaiability will solve everything (along with her getting community noted because the UK has the lowest proportion of empty homes in Europe)

oh no, is nuclear expensive? ok fine, lets keep going with the fossil fuels! your view there's a prime example of the problems with the greens.

and Caroline Lucas has shown her ignorance and lack of pragmatism on this exact topic multiple times (such as when she complained about a new plant being invensted in). not to mention her party and peers being hugely responsible for many of the delay related costs due to deliberate delaying/sabotaging tactics wrapped up as 'concern'.

if you can't understand how I can believe greenpeace to be scummy then you definitely didn't read the link I provided, and evidently aren't too aware of the organisation. you might feel they have good vibes, but their actions in this century are regularly extremely scummy (as most recently proven in Phillipines. hooray for the childhood blindness they don't want to help prevent - progress!
Actually I base my views on science - including being involved in the research of storing radioactive waste.

Offline Sangria

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1002 on: May 3, 2024, 02:30:57 pm »
Wait. Is Greta bad in here now? This place boggles me sometimes.

You don't think that someone purporting to speak for Green issues appearing all over the world isn't a tad hypocritical?
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Offline Lisan Al Gaib

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1003 on: May 3, 2024, 02:32:37 pm »
McGuinness has beaten Driscoll in the NE mayoral election, beaten him comfortably really.

Very very comfortably, good to see!

Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1004 on: May 3, 2024, 02:34:04 pm »
Labour win the N Yorks & York mayor - Sunak's own back yard.  Lab 35% - 27% Con. Big win, suspect there will be a few jibes towards Rishi.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1005 on: May 3, 2024, 02:36:28 pm »
Actually I base my views on science - including being involved in the research of storing radioactive waste.
as a fellow scientist I recommend steering well away of the anti-science green party! and think that's great work you're involved in :)

Offline Robinred

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1006 on: May 3, 2024, 02:53:06 pm »
Is that right Robin? I knew there was a majority for Brexit but had thought it was a bit more evenly split than that. I was told that people in the fishing industry who asked the question "How will it affect the catch?" tended to vote Brexit. Those who asked the question "How will we sell the catch?" leaned towards Remain.

I watched all six episodes of “This Fishing Life” on BBC 2, I think it was broadcast 3-4 years ago. I’m sure that’s where I got that that figure from. I’ve checked all the articles I could find just now, and a few mention the figure of 92%, but in relation to the U.K. as a whole. So you could be right about Cornwall being an outlier. One episode of the aforementioned series interviewed a chap who claimed he was the only member of his association to have voted Remain; I can’t remember the location - Newlyn maybe?

In any event, there are features of Cornish fishing that make it somewhat different to other areas; the size of an average Cornish boat is comparatively small, and the big ‘factory’ ships that can fish in rough weather have an obvious advantage. You’re right to mention the fact that much Cornish catch historically ended up in French markets. Cornish fishermen were miffed about French trawlers catching ‘their’ fish when they couldn’t launch. Many of the issues are quite complex; but one thing’s for certain - Cornish fishermen feel shafted by the Tories, with good reason.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1007 on: May 3, 2024, 03:09:39 pm »
You don't think that someone purporting to speak for Green issues appearing all over the world isn't a tad hypocritical?

I was under the impression she either drove an electric car or sailed.  Does she fly?
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Bennett

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1008 on: May 3, 2024, 03:11:00 pm »
Sunak turning up and lauding the Tees Valley win


Offline Sangria

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1009 on: May 3, 2024, 03:23:53 pm »
Labour councillors duly elected in my ward.
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Offline LuverlyRita

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1010 on: May 3, 2024, 03:24:29 pm »
as a fellow scientist I recommend steering well away of the anti-science green party! and think that's great work you're involved in :)
Decided to put my skills to better use and changed career. Was a bit baffled at the idea of the Greens being an anti-science party but I just checked their record on the subject that shall not be mentioned and I suspect we'll not have a sensible conversation about them so I'm bottling out   ::)

Offline RedDeadRejection

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1011 on: May 3, 2024, 03:26:55 pm »
the more mind boggling thing is you taking one person suggesting an individual taking lots of global flights isn't great and turning it into a generalisation of tens of thousands of RAWKites to be fair

as is reacting like that to one very soft critique of her. don't see how putting her up as some idol is necessary

Perhaps. Perhaps you're another with the same view. And I'm seeing a young girl trying to do some good in the world. Nothing more. As any right mind individual would

Offline RedDeadRejection

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1012 on: May 3, 2024, 03:29:02 pm »
You don't think that someone purporting to speak for Green issues appearing all over the world isn't a tad hypocritical?

No I don't. All you're doing is spouting the populist rhetoric. Oil lobbies will love that. In order to get a message across she has to go to different places.

It's always the people with the right intentions have to do everything correctly isn't it. Always.

Is her message correct or not?
« Last Edit: May 3, 2024, 03:33:22 pm by RedDeadRejection »

Offline KMKYWAP

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1013 on: May 3, 2024, 03:31:01 pm »
Labour win the N Yorks & York mayor - Sunak's own back yard.  Lab 35% - 27% Con. Big win, suspect there will be a few jibes towards Rishi.

In our district, voted last night. Made up David Skaith got the win.

Another f*ck you to the Tories and Sunak

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1014 on: May 3, 2024, 03:45:34 pm »
Just remember that that there are currently 244 unemployed Tories right now.

Offline Ma Vie en Rouge

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1015 on: May 3, 2024, 03:46:53 pm »
its always been the way. always attracts fringe cranks. we all probably know lots of the very well meaning nice local people who have green priorities (which are now thankfully mostly pretty mainstream), but they've always been led by people who have either no clue or a willful desire to lie to get the results they need. they also seem to hate humans, and things that might help them.

thinking for example of anti nuclear power nonsense here, and the catastrophic german enterprise (now shown to be built on lies from greens) to move away from nuclear. then you have scummy organisations like Greenpeace, doing things to promote childhood blindness and poverty and destitution for farmers in the developing world (source https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1783077984213070316 )

just a week or so ago the greens leader (no idea her name) was on the news lying about the housing crisis, making up lies that empty homes are the problem in the UK not supply (amusingly shown up in response from the statistically and politically literate online)

The nuclear opposition is largely based on the complete lack of current long-term storage solutions to the waste. That's a reasonable take, I'd have thought, even if we disagree with it overall?

The opposition to GM vit A enhanced rice is based on fairly good science around the risks of contamination of non-GM crops, with associated risks to non-GM farmer's livelihoods,  and the reduction of biosecurity because of a reduction in genetic diversity; their opposition is accompanied by a series of alternative and entirely practical solutions (which have already worked elsewhere) rather than "promoting" childhood blindness in any way.

https://www.greenpeace.org/southeastasia/publication/1073/golden-rice/#:~:text=GE%20'Golden'%20rice%20is%20highly,would%20negatively%20impact%20rural%20livelihoods.

 And as to promoting poverty and destitution in the developing world's farming community, you might want to look at the effects on farmers of GM cotton crops in, for instance, India. It's hardly a great PR story...

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/gallery/2014/may/05/india-cotton-suicides-farmer-deaths-gm-seeds

« Last Edit: May 3, 2024, 03:48:41 pm by Ma Vie en Rouge »

Offline Sangria

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1016 on: May 3, 2024, 03:46:56 pm »
No I don't. All you're doing is spouting the populist rhetoric. Oil lobbies will love that. In order to get a message across she has to go to different places.

It's always the people with the right intentions have to do everything correctly isn't it. Always.

Is her message correct or not?

"You are..."
"Is her..."

Imposing your definition of people on people. Then framing your discussion in your terms only, as none other is admissible.

I used to not understand why American lefties I knew were despairing at the debates which to me seemed to be common sense. "They just don't get it", they said. Then I stepped back and looked at the method of debate, and I understood.
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Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1017 on: May 3, 2024, 03:49:56 pm »
Labour win the East Midlands Mayoral election, Ben Bradley defeated.
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Offline Libertine

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1018 on: May 3, 2024, 03:54:23 pm »
Quote
Peter Kellner, the political commentator and former head of the YouGov polling firm, points out that, where Reform UK has been standing in council elections, the Conservative vote has fallen much more dramatically than in wards where Reform UK has not been standing. The Labour vote, though does not seem to have been affected by Reform UK being on the ballot.

Kellner says: "This confirms polls that show Reform taking its support overwhelmingly from the Tories, unlike Ukip a decade ago, which attracted votes across the board. This means that the Conservatives must squeeze Reform’s support if they are to avoid a catastrophic landslide defeat at the general election. In 2015, Ukip lost a large part of the votes it had won in byelections, and its poll rating slipped as the election approached. Without such a squeeze this time, Conservative prospects are truly dreadful."

On the BBC Nick Eardley has just highlighted figures showing that, in council seats where Reform UK is standing, the Conservative vote is down 19 percentage points compared to the result in 2021. But the Labour vote is up 6 percentage points.


Glorious stuff.

Same story all over again with right/centre-right parties aping the policies of the far right and then being damaged/consumed by them.

When will they ever learn?

They'll lean ever more into immigration and culture war nonsense now, and lose further support to Labour in the marginals and the Lib Dems in the Blue WallHedge...

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1019 on: May 3, 2024, 03:54:49 pm »
Labour win the N Yorks & York mayor - Sunak's own back yard.  Lab 35% - 27% Con. Big win, suspect there will be a few jibes towards Rishi.
You know, this shows that it’s really possible that Sunak loses his seat.  It really is.
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Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1020 on: May 3, 2024, 03:56:11 pm »
Labour win Nuneaton & Bedworth - 20 out of 38 seats, Tories lose 16 seats. Another big win...
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Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1021 on: May 3, 2024, 03:57:43 pm »
You know, this shows that it’s really possible that Sunak loses his seat.  It really is.

He'll lose votes but he has a massive majority. Don't think he's at risk
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Offline Libertine

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1022 on: May 3, 2024, 03:57:45 pm »
Labour win Nuneaton & Bedworth - 20 out of 38 seats, Tories lose 16 seats. Another big win...

Cons lose Basildon too. All the old bellweathers falling....

Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1023 on: May 3, 2024, 04:00:03 pm »
Cons lose Basildon too. All the old bellweathers falling....

They're having a 2019 Labour moment, their heartlands are deserting them.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1024 on: May 3, 2024, 04:00:37 pm »
You know, this shows that it’s really possible that Sunak loses his seat.  It really is.

If he won his seat I doubt he will stay on for long.  Im not sure my schadenfreude will be as high for Sunak as it would for others.

What chance Guillis?
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline sheepfest

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1025 on: May 3, 2024, 04:00:57 pm »
Has anyone mentioned Adur on the south coast. Been conservative for 50 years. Mother in law has just rang in tears. She has been waiting a long time for this to happen so made up for her.

Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1026 on: May 3, 2024, 04:05:35 pm »
If he won his seat I doubt he will stay on for long.  Im not sure my schadenfreude will be as high for Sunak as it would for others.

What chance Guillis?

Britain elects prediction for Stoke on Trent North:
Lab 49.7%
Con 26.7%
Reform 16.3%
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Online TheShanklyGates

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1027 on: May 3, 2024, 04:11:14 pm »
You don't think that someone purporting to speak for Green issues appearing all over the world isn't a tad hypocritical?

I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1028 on: May 3, 2024, 04:15:22 pm »
Britain elects prediction for Stoke on Trent North:
Lab 49.7%
Con 26.7%
Reform 16.3%

now that something to stay up for
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline filopastry

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1029 on: May 3, 2024, 04:22:17 pm »
now that something to stay up for

Definitely, hopefully there will be a few worth staying up for!

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1030 on: May 3, 2024, 04:28:09 pm »
BBC Projected National Share:

Labour: 34%
Tory: 25%
Lib Dems: 17%
Others: 24%
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
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Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1031 on: May 3, 2024, 04:31:14 pm »
A theme where Labour have struggled is against Pro-Gaza candidates, in high % Muslim wards.
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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1032 on: May 3, 2024, 04:42:48 pm »
A theme where Labour have struggled is against Pro-Gaza candidates, in high % Muslim wards.
:no
So the Muslim vote is now influencing the results of our elections.  :-X
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Offline filopastry

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1033 on: May 3, 2024, 04:58:22 pm »
A theme where Labour have struggled is against Pro-Gaza candidates, in high % Muslim wards.

Herd similar from the doorstep in London yesterday and that is even with the most high profile Muslim politician in the UK running v a certifiable far right lunatic

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1034 on: May 3, 2024, 05:03:19 pm »
800 labour seats
300 Tory seats

30 councils left to announce.

It's fucking glorious

Offline CowboyKangaroo

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1035 on: May 3, 2024, 05:08:29 pm »
Labour sources in Birmingham are saying they believe the Conservative West Midlands mayor Andy Street is going to hold on to his post as Muslim voters turn away from the party over its stance on Gaza.

West Midlands is not counting until tomorrow, but one Labour source in the city said: "Street will win due to the Middle East, not because of his success in the West Midlands."

It’s thought many Muslim voters may have voted for independent candidate, Akhmed Yakoob, who some are saying could come third in some areas of the city.

Last week Yakoob, a lawyer, was joined by George Galloway on the campaign trail targeting disillusioned Muslim voters with a strong focus on Gaza.


I'd never heard of him till last week. A story popped up on Rollonfriday (a gossip site for lawyers) about him spouting some Tate-esque misogyny on a podcast. Vile chap.
shut up clown. Naby Keita can buy your life and throw it away.

Offline classycarra

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1036 on: May 3, 2024, 05:09:50 pm »
Decided to put my skills to better use and changed career. Was a bit baffled at the idea of the Greens being an anti-science party but I just checked their record on the subject that shall not be mentioned and I suspect we'll not have a sensible conversation about them so I'm bottling out   ::)
not seeing any link at all between that topic and science? but am happy to end it there as you prefer

Offline Circa1892

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1037 on: May 3, 2024, 05:12:06 pm »
I'd never heard of him till last week. A story popped up on Rollonfriday (a gossip site for lawyers) about him spouting some Tate-esque misogyny on a podcast. Vile chap.

Anyone associated with Galloway will be espousing hate. Galloway himself is one of the most openly homophobic high profile politicians about.

A big problem is people tend to think people who agree with them on one ‘progressive’ area agree with them on others.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1038 on: May 3, 2024, 05:15:06 pm »
Absolutely bored of the media coverage.

Creating a fake sense of jeapordy about Khan and Hall just so they can talk about London.


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Re: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.
« Reply #1039 on: May 3, 2024, 05:16:14 pm »
I watched all six episodes of “This Fishing Life” on BBC 2, I think it was broadcast 3-4 years ago. I’m sure that’s where I got that that figure from. I’ve checked all the articles I could find just now, and a few mention the figure of 92%, but in relation to the U.K. as a whole. So you could be right about Cornwall being an outlier. One episode of the aforementioned series interviewed a chap who claimed he was the only member of his association to have voted Remain; I can’t remember the location - Newlyn maybe?

In any event, there are features of Cornish fishing that make it somewhat different to other areas; the size of an average Cornish boat is comparatively small, and the big ‘factory’ ships that can fish in rough weather have an obvious advantage. You’re right to mention the fact that much Cornish catch historically ended up in French markets. Cornish fishermen were miffed about French trawlers catching ‘their’ fish when they couldn’t launch. Many of the issues are quite complex; but one thing’s for certain - Cornish fishermen feel shafted by the Tories, with good reason.

I saw that. Wonderful documentary series. Yes, it was Newlyn. I know the place pretty well too. They do get proprietorial about 'their fish' (Perhaps all fisher folk do!). A friend who works at Trelawneys down there told me the story of the famous fish fights of the early 1900s. Being devout Primitive Methodists at the time the Newlyn men would not take their boats out on a Sunday. But crews from Yarmouth - a heathen place apparently - had no inhibitions about swinging by and scooping up Cornish fish on the Sabbath. The two towns went to war. It's the French now, not the East Anglians, but clearly the same mind-set is in place! "Our fish!" As the coal-miners of the pre-nationalisation era used to say to the royalty owners (ie the big landlords who took a tithe of every ton of coal that was hewed simply because it was mined under their land), "Yes, it was very clever of you to grow the coal there").

What's that got to do with the local elections? Nothing.

Come on Labour!
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.