Topic: Chasing the Title

[killer-heels]

I get what you're saying, but the timing of the drop points are a bit crap.

Maybe its a coincidence that we drop our first points of the season to the other 14 teams when we have our first shot of putting one hand on the title.

Skeptic in me says that was in our heads and we fluffed our lines. Again we will see Monday, arguably a harder game than Wednesday this, and it might come with City 2 behind, lets see how the lads handle that.

But why is Monday different to any day last December? Or November? Where then we were level or behind, City were winning and so were we? Were we showing good mental strength there?

We were 7 points ahead at the start of January. Did we have one hand on the title then? Also if we did are you saying that at any point which we drop points from that moment on, we have bottled it?

Sometimes you have to accept that teams can stop you winning. Leicester have beaten City and Chelsea and have some brilliant players. A draw was not bad.

For me this is encapsulated by the Spurs debate. They lose one game and go 9 points back and they are out of it. They gain two points one week and now they are back in it. Its pretty mad to think like that.

[Chip Evans]

I don't think we fluffed our lines. We're a team that thrives in rythym and consistency. January has been horribly disjointed by injury and weird periods between games and we're clearly into a second fitness period where the idea is to have is peak again in a month. Meanwhile City have been swatting aside lower league clowns and relegation fodder every 3rd day. The Newcastle result gave us a massive unexpected chance.

Not to get into the duality of man but, you can be a believer and nauseous about the title challenge in parallel. No one doesn't want us to do it, and anyone who brings nervousness into the ground can fuck off. Getting to March still in the lead matters now. I really think we can do it but buckle in for the next 4 weeks to be a grind. Wednesday's problem was City may not give up too many chances to pull away, it'd be nice to have taken it. The draw wasn't a disaster. But you know, i'd be happy to win the league on goal difference. Get to March with reinforements coming rather than hanging on. 

[-Willo-]

But why is Monday different to any day last December? Or November? Where then we were level or behind, City were winning and so were we? Were we showing good mental strength there?

We were 7 points ahead at the start of January. Did we have one hand on the title then? Also if we did are you saying that at any point which we drop points from that moment on, we have bottled it?

Sometimes you have to accept that teams can stop you winning. Leicester have beaten City and Chelsea and have some brilliant players. A draw was not bad.

For me this is encapsulated by the Spurs debate. They lose one game and go 9 points back and they are out of it. They gain two points one week and now they are back in it. Its pretty mad to think like that.

Yes we did to be honest, hence why City celebrated it like they won the title, because they knew they got themselves back into it with a MUST WIN.

If you don't think one of the best teams in the world being able to afford to lose TWICE in in 14 games isnt a hand on the title, then you seriously underestimate how good us and City are to be honest.

We're probably the best 2 teams in the world.

[killer-heels]

Yes we did to be honest, hence why City celebrated it like they won the title, because they knew they got themselves back into it with a MUST WIN.

If you don't think one of the best teams in the world being able to afford to lose TWICE in in 14 games isnt a hand on the title, then you seriously underestimate how good us and City are to be honest.

We're probably the best 2 teams in the world.

So why is it that keeping up with City is just par for the course but the moment we lose or draw its us failing?

Basically you are saying we need to win every game otherwise its a failure.

City have lost 4 times already and we just finished January. Are they really THAT good? By the way, we have taken advantage, because we are 5 points clear.

[Doc Red]

We're gonna find out who the genuine leaders in the team are over the next few months. Sadio has long had a rep as a moody, mercurial type but he showed clear leadership qualities against Leicester. Was unafraid to get on the ball and take responsibility. I think Fabinho is the same. Demands the ball and drives the team forward rather than playing it safe. We need him starting in midfield every game.

Are you just assuming that or do you have evidence of that?
I can't recall any interview from a player or Klopp portraying Mane as moody. In fact he seemed to be mentioned as one of the jokers, yet also laid back.
I hope I'm wrong, else our own supporters  are painting lazy narratives that tend to be attached to black players .

[-Willo-]

So why is it that keeping up with City is just par for the course but the moment we lose or draw its us failing?

Basically you are saying we need to win every game otherwise its a failure.

City have lost 4 times already and we just finished January. Are they really THAT good?

In the grand scheme of things we are not failing, we are in the midst of the best season I've ever seen.

But in that one moment in time, when we could go 7 points clear with a win at home, we failed.

It isn't black and white, it isn't a case of we either fail or we don't. There's big moments everywhere

[killer-heels]

In the grand scheme of things we are not failing, we are in the midst of the best season I've ever seen.

But in that one moment in time, when we could go 7 points clear with a win at home, we failed.

It isn't black and white, it isn't a case of we either fail or we don't. There's big moments everywhere

You are the one making it black and white the second you mention words like failing. Its like when another poster said we had our biggest moment of the season and we failed (the loss against City).

I am sorry but if you are going to use words like that to losses away to a supposed amazing side like City then thats idiotic.

Its also odd that one or two games where you drop points invokes failure but the shit tonne of times we have won in difficult games or circumstances thats just brushed aside.

[killer-heels]

Yeah I'm nervous, not ashamed to admit it.

Remembering 08/09, with only two defeats but the draws costing us the title.  Worrying about a makeshift defence and us potentially having to try to resort to outscoring teams again.

I'm not worried about City - their fragility speaks for itself.  But I am envious of their squad depth; and too many opposition teams still allow them to canter to victory, which puts much less physical stress on their players.

Hoping Arsenal and Chelsea can snatch a couple of draws, but the latter especially I'm hoping will offer a physical challenge to them.

It could just be that this title chasing malarky isnt really for us.

[spider-neil]

The Gomez surgery news makes City favourite. Matip and Lovren are injury prone which is likely to mean fabinho is needed back thereby weakening in midfield creativity wise. Gomez's pace is also a great weapon to cover TAA who is prone to lapses.
IMO us to win the league (all things equal), Lovren needs to show the level of consistency he did toward the end of the season (the home Roma game aside) and one of Ox/Keita will need to step up

What Gomez surgery news?

[Anthony]

It's taken me a few days to catch up with this thread... 

I get what you're saying, but the timing of the drop points are a bit crap.

...and I was just coming on to say the opposite - I think if we were going to drop points this was perhaps the best time to do it. If City had won on Tuesday then the narrative after our game would have been about they applying the pressure and we faltering under the strain. As it is, the heat is on City going into perhaps the most challenging run of fixtures they will have for the rest of the season while we are just seen as suffering from 'nerves' which are quite understandable.

Yes, it's annoying that we didn't take all three points having taken the lead (leave aside the fact we should have won if the Referee had done his job properly) but I see Wednesday as a free pass that we quite happily took. It should also be a sharp reminder to keep our standards up without being to demoralising a result.

38 out of 42 points to go...

[Red Beret]

Now is not the time to be using words like "failed".

We had an indecisive battle against Leicester; we have no way of knowing if it will cost us the war.

I mean, jeez, if that's failure then wtf did City do against Newcastle?

[Kashinoda]

Now is not the time to be using words like "failed".

We had an indecisive battle against Leicester; we have no way of knowing if it will cost us the war.

I mean, jeez, if that's failure then wtf did City do against Newcastle?

There's a different rule for City, they smash all teams in their path - as evident by being 5 points behind after their 4th loss of the campaign.

[-Willo-]

Now is not the time to be using words like "failed".

We had an indecisive battle against Leicester; we have no way of knowing if it will cost us the war.

I mean, jeez, if that's failure then wtf did City do against Newcastle?

Failed?

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

You are the one making it black and white the second you mention words like failing. Its like when another poster said we had our biggest moment of the season and we failed (the loss against City).

I am sorry but if you are going to use words like that to losses away to a supposed amazing side like City then thats idiotic.

Its also odd that one or two games where you drop points invokes failure but the shit tonne of times we have won in difficult games or circumstances thats just brushed aside.

The reason why some people are sceptical, it's because we aren't winning routinely. We almost bottled it against Palace, and we surely did against Leicester. Some games we've won purely on luck ( Everton game comes to my mind), and the Red Star game was a bad indication that some of our players might be mentally weak. We have the quality to win routinely though, we just need our top players to perform at their top, our midfield needs a rocket up their arse, and hopefully we won't suffer from injuries any longer.

[SteveZissou]

For two days I've been having nightmares of Martin Atkinson and that ball on the "line" against City. I woke up a new man today. It became even more clear than before that we were 4 points up and now we're 5 points up. Man, that's great. I'm happy. They got to play Arsenal and Chelsea in their next 3 games, so lets hope they drop some points there, cos it'd be difficult for us to win all our games including Utd and Everton's biggest game of the season. We have to be prepared to drop points here and there sometimes, and we should be happy that City dropped all 3 at Newcastle.

[jepovic]

I think it's a bit lazy to blame our defensive issues on injuries. Against Leicester it was Robinson and Becker that caused the most problems, and VVD was also not his usual stellar self. They seemed a bit unfocused, maybe lack of matches? Robinson seems to be like those dogs that need a good 90 min daily run to feel well.

[El Lobo]

If we don’t go on to win it, a lot of you can at least console yourselves with the fact that you’ll have got exactly what you deserve 

You’re literally just jumping all over any tiny setback to whine, it’s absolutely incredible to see. People having pages of debate about the players bottling it. There’s only one group who are bottling it right now and it certainly isn’t the players.

[killer-heels]

The reason why some people are sceptical, it's because we aren't winning routinely. We almost bottled it against Palace, and we surely did against Leicester. Some games we've won purely on luck ( Everton game comes to my mind), and the Red Star game was a bad indication that some of our players might be mentally weak. We have the quality to win routinely though, we just need our top players to perform at their top, our midfield needs a rocket up their arse, and hopefully we won't suffer from injuries any longer.

There you go. Bottling it and words like that.

How did we almost bottle it against Palace? We beat Palace in a tough game. You cannot win every game routinely and if its not routine, you have almost bottled it?

You cite the Red Star game but forget then we had a must win game against Napoli, a very tough side, and we deservedly won. That took massive mental strength, as did Palace where we were losing.

You dont call players who have got 61 points in such quick time mentally weak. You just dont. They are a better side than any in the past two yearsa dn that includes those sides that people bang on all the time about.

People need to appreciate this side and not be throwing words like bottling or failing. Its the best side we have had in ages. That Rafa team for example wishes it was better than this one.

[Red Beret]

The reason why some people are sceptical, it's because we aren't winning routinely. We almost bottled it against Palace, and we surely did against Leicester. Some games we've won purely on luck ( Everton game comes to my mind), and the Red Star game was a bad indication that some of our players might be mentally weak. We have the quality to win routinely though, we just need our top players to perform at their top, our midfield needs a rocket up their arse, and hopefully we won't suffer from injuries any longer.

And when City first dragged themselves over the line against United they almost bottled it too.  It takes nerves of steel to win the title so wobbles are to be expected, especially with injuries and players having to fill stop gaps.

Whether it costs us the title remains to be seen, but we've shown huge character to get this far and we're smart enough to know we're not invulnerable.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I don't think we fluffed our lines. We're a team that thrives in rhythm and consistency. January has been horribly disjointed by injury and weird periods between games and we're clearly into a second fitness period where the idea is to have is peak again in a month. Meanwhile City have been swatting aside lower league clowns and relegation fodder every 3rd day. The Newcastle result gave us a massive unexpected chance.

Not to get into the duality of man but, you can be a believer and nauseous about the title challenge in parallel. No one doesn't want us to do it, and anyone who brings nervousness into the ground can fuck off. Getting to March still in the lead matters now. I really think we can do it but buckle in for the next 4 weeks to be a grind. Wednesday's problem was City may not give up too many chances to pull away, it'd be nice to have taken it. The draw wasn't a disaster. But you know, i'd be happy to win the league on goal difference. Get to March with reinforements coming rather than hanging on. 

Amen. We'll get back to it, and we've still got a lead. It's a tough period. We can do it.

[FlashGordon]

I think it's a bit lazy to blame our defensive issues on injuries. Against Leicester it was Robinson and Becker that caused the most problems, and VVD was also not his usual stellar self. They seemed a bit unfocused, maybe lack of matches? Robinson seems to be like those dogs that need a good 90 min daily run to feel well.

We sold Jack Robinson in 2014.

[DelTrotter]

The reason why some people are sceptical, it's because we aren't winning routinely. We almost bottled it against Palace, and we surely did against Leicester. Some games we've won purely on luck ( Everton game comes to my mind), and the Red Star game was a bad indication that some of our players might be mentally weak. We have the quality to win routinely though, we just need our top players to perform at their top, our midfield needs a rocket up their arse, and hopefully we won't suffer from injuries any longer.

What team has ever won a title winning routinely every single week? Even last season I can remember City having plenty of scabby, not particularly deserved late wins. "We almost bottled it"  What the fuck does that crap even mean? How is coming from a goal down via dreadful officiating to win a game nearly bottling it? I'm fascinated to know.

On the plus side, if that's bad bottling then what the hell does that say about the club who lost at home to Palace and got schooled in the week by a bunch of lads who wouldn't stand out in the Championship.

Some shit in here, and will probably get much worse when Tottenham win later.

[FlashGordon]

If we don’t go on to win it, a lot of you can at least console yourselves with the fact that you’ll have got exactly what you deserve 

You’re literally just jumping all over any tiny setback to whine, it’s absolutely incredible to see. People having pages of debate about the players bottling it. There’s only one group who are bottling it right now and it certainly isn’t the players.

Said a few months ago people would nearly enjoy mid table mediocrity at bit more, then their moans would hold some credence. The fucking state of some people 

If we're bottlers what does that make every team below us in the Football League pyramid? When we 'bottle' it we win narrowly or draw. When the rest 'bottle' it they lose to relegation fodder. I'm fine with that.

[killer-heels]

Said a few months ago people would nearly enjoy mid table mediocrity at bit more, then their moans would hold some credence. The fucking state of some people 

Yep. I think its clear that for many, this title chasing business is not for them. Top four is their everything. Its the right amount of achievement/pressure balance they can handle.

They should leave the title challenge for the adults.

[jillc]

The reason why some people are sceptical, it's because we aren't winning routinely. We almost bottled it against Palace, and we surely did against Leicester. Some games we've won purely on luck ( Everton game comes to my mind), and the Red Star game was a bad indication that some of our players might be mentally weak. We have the quality to win routinely though, we just need our top players to perform at their top, our midfield needs a rocket up their arse, and hopefully we won't suffer from injuries any longer.

You like you use the word bottle a lot in your post and towards this team. If Liverpool are bottlers this season, what does that make City who lost to both Palace and Leicester? We are in a tough battle, points will be lost from time to time. It doesn't mean a team bottles it, somedays some other teams are just more affective, or some times the ball doesn't quite run for you. We are a rhythm team, our best games come when we are playing one game after another. When you are coming out of the busy Christmas period there is sometimes a point when teams struggle, especially with the defensive injuries. So stop using the term bottlers, and realise a season has setbacks in it, its totally natural its always happened in the game and always will. But currently we are five points clear at the top of the table and that is a long way from bottling anything.

[jillc]

What Gomez surgery news?

The boss said yesterday Gomez may need sugery to cure the injury, he is due to see a specialist soon.

[El Lobo]

Said a few months ago people would nearly enjoy mid table mediocrity at bit more, then their moans would hold some credence. The fucking state of some people 

I’m genuinely waiting for the moment someone posts ‘well why the fuck did we sell Markovic?!  ’

We’re in a good position. The injuries to the right side of defence are annoying. City lost De Bruyne for most of the season, Mendy for most of the season, I think Ederson might be injured now? I know they’ve had other important players out. Spurs have got Kane and Alli injured, had injuries elsewhere. It happens, you battle through it. Never did I expect to see people moaning about loaning Clyne and selling Klavan, yet here we are and it’s a daily occurrence and has been for a month.

In terms of injuries, I’d say the top three are all about even so far. It’s not some mega curse, we’ve all lost important players and it’s impacted form. Yet we’re five clear, we’ve got players coming back and we’ve got fewer games than our rivals.

Just fucking relax and enjoy it. It really shouldn’t be a grind when your side is in this position. I swear some would rather snap their fingers and be in June as champions rather than actually watch us do it.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

There you go. Bottling it and words like that.

How did we almost bottle it against Palace? We beat Palace in a tough game. You cannot win every game routinely and if its not routine, you have almost bottled it?

You cite the Red Star game but forget then we had a must win game against Napoli, a very tough side, and we deservedly won. That took massive mental strength, as did Palace where we were losing.

You dont call players who have got 61 points in such quick time mentally weak. You just dont. They are a better side than any in the past two yearsa dn that includes those sides that people bang on all the time about.

People need to appreciate this side and not be throwing words like bottling or failing. Its the best side we have had in ages. That Rafa team for example wishes it was better than this one.

I'm aware of that what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you - but the medal has two sides and we're discussing them both, and "calculating" which side will triumph in the end.

[jillc]

I have just seen a video on Trent and he is looking very good he's back training with the ball and we can expect him back soon hopefully.

[killer-heels]

I’m genuinely waiting for the moment someone posts ‘well why the fuck did we sell Markovic?!  ’

We’re in a good position. The injuries to the right side of defence are annoying. City lost De Bruyne for most of the season, Mendy for most of the season, I think Ederson might be injured now? I know they’ve had other important players out. Spurs have got Kane and Alli injured, had injuries elsewhere. It happens, you battle through it. Never did I expect to see people moaning about loaning Clyne and selling Klavan, yet here we are and it’s a daily occupancy and has been for a month.

In terms of injuries, I’d say the top three are all about even so far. It’s not some mega curse, we’ve all lost important players and it’s impacted form. Yet we’re five clear, we’ve got players coming back and we’ve got fewer games than our rivals.

Just fucking relax and enjoy it. It really shouldn’t be a grind when your side is in this position. I swear some would rather snap their fingers and be in June as champions rather than actually watch us do it.

To think we mock spurs for their top four is our everything song. For many fans thats all they can take.

[the_red_pill]

What about when they drew 0-0 with Chelsea earlier in the season?

Yes I know Chelsea are miles behind us now but they weren’t at the time.

Chelsea's not a challenger(and I said that the time- at the height of their form) and that's what I mean.

Agree. Chelsea's not ready to challenge. They don't have the firepower yet. They don't have anyone to consistently rely upon in Hazard's absence and he can't play +40 games in a row- at the same performance level.

They will be a nuisance for sure, but a challenger? Nope.

Should've buried them yesterday. Been a shit time since yesterday. Our front 3 should take a good look at themselves.

I dunno how people could see- apart from what was a spurt of form- that they could be a challenger?
As I said- Everton will beat a team when their not a rival for a position(4th as oppsed to 1st in this case).

[FlashGordon]

I'm aware of that what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you - but the medal has two sides and we're discussing them both, and "calculating" which side will triumph in the end.

So you're going with the side who lost to Newcastle, Crystal Palace and Leicester.

I'll take the team not winning routinely over the team losing every day of the week, I think you should too.

[killer-heels]

I'm aware of that what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you - but the medal has two sides and we're discussing them both, and "calculating" which side will triumph in the end.

There is nothing calculating in using the word bottling. Its devisive and it points to a massive flaw in the make up of a team and its players.

There is no major flaw in this team, its amazing. That might not be good enough but ultimately they would do better than teams that had Reina, Arbeloa, Johnson, Skrtel, Hyypia, Carragher, Agger, Aurelio, Alonso, Gerrard, Mascherano, Coutinho, Riera, Sterling, Sturridge, Suarez, Torres, Kuyt etc. Why? Because they wish they were as good as this side.

[Billy The Kid]

Ourselves and City have a combined total of 28 fixtures remaining

Even if you attempted to predict the results of those games on a simple a L-D-W win basis (forgetting scorelines) the most you'd probably get correct is about 20. Most of the fixtures may seem easy to call on paper, but football doesn't always go to plan. If it did, Paddy Power would be skint and his punters would be millionaires

Our next 3 fixtures are West Ham (A), Bournemouth (H) and United (A). Looking at those fixtures on paper, I would happily take 7 points from those 3 games if offered it now. It's likely that we'll beat West Ham and Bournemouth and draw away at Old Trafford. It's also not beyond the realms of possibility for us to draw at home to Bournemouth and end up smashing the Mancs a week later.

Point being, it's stupid pointing to 1 single fixture where points have been dropped and moan that it's an opportunity lost. Why torture yourself? Make no mistake about it, it's highly likely that we will drop points again this season, probably when we least expect it. We're going to clip another hurdle or 2. It's probably best for peace of mind to just accept that now. It's also likely that City will add to their tally of 4 defeats. Again, when its least expected.

Reading some of the posts in here I honestly can't help but wonder how long some of you have been watching football. Particularly title run ins where anything is likely to happen. Personally, I'm loving this now. It feels like 13/14 all over again. Waking up on weekends buzzing for kick off.

[StormyDog]

The issue we have is we had 2 opportunities to really make a points statement and haven't done it.

1) Beat City to go 10 points clear
2) Beat Leicester to go 7 points clear

We've to make sure we start taking advantage of these changes to really steam ahead if they come around again.

The City game could have gone either way. No loss of momentum there.
The Leicester game is a concern. We didn’t create enough. Given that had Kieth got his pen or Magire got a red for his forearm smash then things would  have been different

[Fordy]

The City game could have gone either way. No loss of momentum there.
The Leicester game is a concern. We didn’t create enough. Given that had Kieth got his pen or Magire got a red for his forearm smash then things would  have been different

Yeah but we must take maximum opportunities when they come about.

[will2003]

City will soon be racking up games in hand which will add their own pressure on them. We just need to keep getting results and putting distance between us and them

[nayia2002]

I know some of will completely disagree but the league will be won or lost or Monday! Win to stay 5 points clear or lose and find ourselves a point behind after Everton - city game on Wednesday night!! 
We have to win what ever it takes against West ham.

[NewfoundRed]

I’m genuinely waiting for the moment someone posts ‘well why the fuck did we sell Markovic?!  ’

That will be when he has his inevitable good game against us 

The law of the ex doncha know

[NewfoundRed]

I know some of will completely disagree ....

Correct