Topic: Rodgers the man of the moment

[The 5th Benitle]

Thanks for taking the time to respond Kris.

As for this:

I think you are bang, bang out of order. I tweeted that Kenny will win the title at half 11 on a Monday evening after watching Liverpool annihilate Fulham 5-2. It was very much off-the-cuff. I'm not paid to tweet, I do that in a personal capacity. Therein lies the problem with Twitter. If you're on about another, published piece I wrote, please show me. If you want to take what I write as a pinch of salt, I wouldn't waste my time reading it. That's what many people do.

I agree and apologies, that post should really have been deleted. Luckily 99% of us appreciate your output in an ever growing (congrats!) number of avenues.

[rossipersempre]

Rossi: On the Benitez/Houllier point. I don't remember Rafa's side doing that to United in January 2005. In fact, I'd say until the O'Shea last minute winner (2007?), he never had the measure of United. Houllier likewise - it took him a good two years to figure out Ferguson. It goes without saying that both were spot on once they 'cracked' it, and that their slower starts against United can be attributed to being from other countries. But do you honestly not think it was impressive how a side so young took it to United, even with 10 men?

Kris, my point was that you were making a deliberately unfair comparison. Yes, both Ged and Rafa took a few attempts to do the Mancs, but as I said, the quality of those United teams far outstripped the mediocre shite wearing white shirts on Sunday. Impressive? I think what was impressive was the performances and fight (for places) in pretty much all our players. How he will pick them up from such a kick in the nutsack will be interesting to see.

What I do like about Rodgers is, that the massive exception of Carragher aside, he seems to operating more of a meritocracy within the first team squad. Not something you could say about any of his recent predecessors. Yes, it's sort of been forced on him given the calamitous transfer dealings in and out, but it's also an ideal opportunity to get a fanbase who traditionally wet ourselves at the sight of prodigiously-talented youth, very much onside. As your article proves.

[Crosby Nick]

Rossi: On the Benitez/Houllier point. I don't remember Rafa's side doing that to United in January 2005. In fact, I'd say until the O'Shea last minute winner (2007?), he never had the measure of United. Houllier likewise - it took him a good two years to figure out Ferguson. It goes without saying that both were spot on once they 'cracked' it, and that their slower starts against United can be attributed to being from other countries. But do you honestly not think it was impressive how a side so young took it to United, even with 10 men?

I was going to reply to this bit earlier but didn't want to speak on your behalf! If you go off purely home games (as that is all we've had to judge Rodgers v United):

Houllier:
98/99: 2-2 we were outplayed but fought back from 2 down with Ince equalising
99/00: 3-2 defeat in September. Played quite well but gifted bad goals (Carra's 2 ogs)
00/01: 2-0 battered them and they were romping to the title at that stage
01/02: 3-1 again matched them and bettered them
02/03: 1-2 tight game, Dudek howlers
03/04: 1-2 tight game, Dudek howlers

Benitez:
04/05: 0-1 United weren't great (when are they against us?) but we were pretty toothless
05/06: 0-0 in September. Nullified them but a pretty poor game all round
06/07: 0-1 had by far the better of it, didn't take our chances and late sucker punch
07/08: 0-1 tight game, settled by a set piece
08/09: 2-1 came from a goal down, deserved it
09/10: 2-0 outfought them, Lucas bossed it

Houllier's first couple of games were close but we were inferior. Took him 3 games before we genuinely got the better of them. Took Rafa 3 games if you're being generous, 5 if you're being quite harsh. Certainly for both cases it took a few games before we had the confidence to go 'toe to toe' with them.

So agree with what you said, the manner of how we played was pleasing. You could argue that United were poor but they'll be in the top 2 again no doubt. In fact, they've been in the top 2 almost every season listed there and yet they hardly ever play 'well' at Anfield, even when they beat us.

[smj86]

Im backing Rodgers all the way but I still worry that a team in our situation needed an experienced manager just to get us back into the top 4 and after that we can bring in managers with potential such as Rodgers. We're in a situation where an experienced manager would be crucial just to get the team winning without needing to change the style completely and once we get in the top four and get CL caliber players, then Rodgers wouldve come in and changed the team to suit his style and whatnot. But hes here now and only unwavered support for him and patience in the team would bring us back to the top.

[woof]

If this is the pain we must endure for a better future, so be it. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel with such a display. Last season, we were deluding ourselves.

[Crosby Nick]

I can't deny it!

Good or bad, results against this lot linger long in the memory!

[guest]

It isn't a problem at all, I've no issue with criticism - I get enough of it from my bosses! - but to hold a tweet sent as a personal capacity in May 2010 as a signifier of their work isn't for me.

I wish I could dive into the forum more but I'm usually chocca. Hopefully I can pop up and argue with everyone over the next two weeks at least. Holiday indeed.

[fowler9_god]

It isn't a problem at all, I've no issue with criticism - I get enough of it from my bosses! - but to hold a tweet sent as a personal capacity in May 2010 as a signifier of their work isn't for me.

I wish I could dive into the forum more but I'm usually chocca. Hopefully I can pop up and argue with everyone over the next two weeks at least. Holiday indeed.

Sorry for that mate. As I've said you are an incredible poster. I love reading them. Not to sound gay but I agree with most of you and that thread you made after the Atletico defeat stays on with me. Never have I felt similar but it took someone else to put it in words.

But I guess when you are that good, people will look out for your tweets, threads and articles and would remember them. I felt the same after the 5-2 defeat and things can go pear shape for Rodgers. I mean its a feel good article, but I was just trying to put in some balance.

[Roger Federer]

Yes, both Ged and Rafa took a few attempts to do the Mancs, but as I said, the quality of those United teams far outstripped the mediocre shite wearing white shirts on Sunday.

I think you are right about Ged and the United team at the time, but were they not in transition in 2004-06? Ronaldo was very raw at the time (but showed the first signs of the player he later became in the spring of 2006 if I'm not mistaken), and their points tally wasn't that great compared to previous and coming seasons. Also went out of Europe early, I think. I honestly believe they look better now than back then, but they obviously don't have a world class talent like Ronaldo waiting to break through now. He was the main reason they began winning thropies again after a short slump.

[fowler9_god]

5-2 win I should say

[TSC]

We are at the beginning of our journey, they will soon be coming to a crossraods in theirs.

How many teams have lost the game before they have even kicked a ball against Man U,

Wish I'd a quid for every time someone says UTD are in trouble/decline/cross-roads, etc over the last 10 yrs.  I'd be a rich man

[Eeyore]

One thing I would say about the United thing is that it is a bit daft to try and make comparisons between the United side Rodgers Liverpool faced and the side coached by Quieroz with a front six of Scholes, Carrick, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Giggs who were all in their pomp. United are absolutely brutal in midfield at the moment with an ageing Carrick and an ancient Giggs. That is a bit different to the midfield of Giggs, Keane, Scholes and Beckham that Houllier's Liverpool faced.

[redk84]

I am confident Rodgers is a good manager....he seems to know his stuff and im backing him all the way. There's already been signs of what he's trying to do with our team, and i am more than happy with the chances he has given to the younger members of our squad.

My immediate worry is the results....my long-term worry is how long he will be allowed to manage us.

One of the two issues are in his hands and i really do hope that he can notch up a few wins in the league now....especially with the fixtures we have coming up. I have to admit, even being at my most pessimistic i couldnt see us with less than 3 points at this stage..i know and understand how difficult he must have it so will only really judge him as a manger at the end of this season.

As for how long he'll be here....well i hate the fact that we've changed so many managers recently. I hope he's here for a while now, but we need to see improvement in all areas...from the players right upto the chairmen.

[royhendo]

This site's a bit like being one of the Sexplorers in The League Of Gentlemen's "The Medusa Touch".

You start out getting a bit of a thrill, but pretty soon you're worried it's gonna be the death of you.

[stewil007]

Wish I'd a quid for every time someone says UTD are in trouble/decline/cross-roads, etc over the last 10 yrs.  I'd be a rich man

Ferguson can't go on forever and when he leaves, they will be at a crossroads - will they be able to get the right manager to manage a squad not of the quality that is once was.  I think a lot of the trouble/decline comments were more out of hope and desperation than out of what was reality.

I would say that I hope we copy their model, and don't hound Rodgers out, if the first half of the season carries on to be a struggle.  I hope we persevere and reap the rewards of stability.  You could even look across Stanley Park and see what stability can do for us.  I know they have struggled and flirted with relegation but i don't think there is any denying that slowly but surely a decent team is being built from next to no investment and a selling mentality.  We are financially more stable, have more funds available and also have the prestige of still being a big club.

[rafa4eva]

I still have queries/questions on Brendan but that doesn't mean he isn't supported from my perspective... What does worry me is messianic belief some are showing him already under the guise of paitence... Along with a hallelujah on the way we are trying to play... Seeing the ups and downs we have seen under hodge, kenny and Brendan has given me the opportunity to review some of the results we had under rafa where his supposed negativity snatched a loss from the jaws of victory... To see 3 managers struggle with lfc to generate a consistent level of performance even when we had no European commitments and even with poulsen in the side makes me look back at those games where we struggled under rafa as as one off's, anomalies which would happen under any manger.... As we have seen with our own eyes....

Which leads me into the point of this post, rafa in his last season got to 7th, with a European semi final taken to the wire ... Circumstances off the pitch provided me with context and some understanding.... However the drum beat of negative rafa, can't spend well, rotates too much and zonal "who won anything with that" marking had reached a wailing crescendo....he had to go... Sadly... Well done us.... What I will say is that I still believed, without European commits, rafa could have with that side still competed for 4th and competed in local cups...

As fucked off with hodge as I was on many levels, the primary reason for hating him was again taking a squad which i still believed could compete for 4th and trying to make us believe that relegation was all we were good for....even after chopping and changing the team ....

Under kenny, last season without European commits , again I thought we still had a squad that could compete for 4th and local cups...what i didn't get was how our league form just fell away after the arsenal game ... Even with the cup success I still believed we could compete for 4th....

After rafa left, the burden of managing Europe whilst still competing in the league really came to life for me, along with an acceptance that rafa had managed to wring out of the team a level of consistency which future managers would struggle to match, even when we had no European games.... For the naysayers that thought rafa was holding us back, it depresses me to see how we have fared with freedom....

To be clear, I genuinely think ( well apart from the increasing injuries, no Lucas  and transfer fuck ups we have had recently ) that we should have been again competing for 4th, we def don't have the ability to challenge higher IMO with the squad we have or probably be able to compete in Europe and the league, but we should not be consistently challenging for 8th.... The team generally still seems to be working out what to do with the ball.... Esp the transition from mf to attack.... We def still look wide open through mf and open to counters... Thought the mancs looked more threatening early doors in the 1st half but then sat back.. I thought we had a level of control on the game but the sendings off and penalties and the ref certainly skewed any sensible analysis ... Although we coped well in the 2nd half considering the loss of personnel .....

In summary, The 1st 11 is good enough to compete for 4th ( well a fit and healthy 1st 11 ) ESP when we don't have a pile up of fixtures... What's worrying is the continuing struggle to compete...maybe coming out of europe could benefit us from a league perspective...then again it hasn't helped us in the last 2 seasons ... Brendan needs to have a plan a and b, one way of playing is great but when you need to get pts on the table being able to mix it up is key... We look like a one sided character at the moment and we still haven't seen that one side burning bright...

to be honest I'm still getting to grips with where my beloved club has ended up and where it intends to go... I just hope Brendan can take the theory and bring it to life and get us competing... I can't even bring myself to say winning ... Lets compete first and put some wins together before we start to bang the drum of expectation around winning the big prizes....

[The 5th Benitle]

Where has this current fad of criticising people for hailing Rodgers as a 'messiah' come from?
 
Given I haven't seen one person do anything of the sort, I find it pretty strange.

[Hank Scorpio]

Link: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/liverpool/id/130?cc=5739

Er, no offence L6, but I think you've gone overboard in your praise of Gerrard.

[Les Willis]

Some of the more negative posts on this thread and a few others about Brendan makes you realise what a poisoned chalice of a role the Liverpool Manager's job can be. Some of us have set the bar so high, it's often going to be impossible for Rodgers or anyone to live up to the billing.

The fact that we can see progress on the pitch, in the style of play at least, proves to me that Rodgers knows what he's talking about. Some say "He's only had one years experience in the Premiership", failing to take into account that he has spent most of his adult life, purely as a coach. A lot of footballers come to the end of their career in football and go straight into management. Rodgers has had years and years being a student of the game. He knows coaching inside out, so people that argue he hasn't got the experience are barking up the wrong tree.

He's great with the media, comes across as intelligent, seems to be a good communicator and understands how he wants the players to play. He's also not afraid of bringing the youth through, which has been one of my frustrations over the past few seasons - the lack of opportunities for some of the younger players. The only thing he now needs is results.

[steveeastend]

I think comparisons with the past don´t make sense, the here and now is important.

We played  Arsenal, City and ManU, none of them outplayed us... some would argue none of them were on the top of their game but who is in these days? Chelsea? I doubt it...

The PL went through a change, the quality isn´t that high as it used to as a lot of star players did choose la liga as well as some top manager left or being past their best as well.

It´s important to be competitive in the current situation of the league and I am still positive we will be getting there during this season, after next summer at the latest.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Where has this current fad of criticising people for hailing Rodgers as a 'messiah' come from?
 
Given I haven't seen one person do anything of the sort, I find it pretty strange.

He's just a very naughty boy.

[guest]

Er, no offence L6, but I think you've gone overboard in your praise of Gerrard.

How come?

[Mr_Shane]

I think Man Utd actually have always played as a team who have players willing to work for each other, even now they have good... not great players, but still function as a unit rather than one or two players doing their own thing. Rodgers is actually starting to build the team ethos here. First few games, I saw Gerrard and Suarez trying to do their own thing to try to win a game, but then it becomes 1 against a group of defenders. If the past few games are anything to go by hopefully it now becomes a team vs a team and the better team should come out on top.

Also another thing is that Rodgers was previously a youth coach, both for Reading and Chelsea. Here has has the advantage over both Houllier and Rafa and even the King who were never really involved in coaching youths before.

[The 5th Benitle]

Also another thing is that Rodgers was previously a youth coach, both for Reading and Chelsea. Here has has the advantage over both Houllier and Rafa and even the King who were never really involved in coaching youths before.

Rafa was youth team coach at Real Madrid. Surely you knew that.

[Mr_Shane]

forgot about that one  . No wonder he was able to spot talent in youths

[careful on these streets, I've heard stories]

I think Andy got it spot on, we need stability to progress and IMO Rodgers ideas can breed success, the level of success is not certain but at least if he can get us playing well and improve our attack over the next two windows then hopefully we can become alot more competitive then see where we go from there.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Rafa was youth team coach at Real Madrid. Surely you knew that.

And Houllier was the FFF academy director at Clairefontaine who helped bring through some of the 98 World Cup winning team.

[macca888]

To be absolutely honest, I'm astounded and sick to fucking death in equal measures of the negativity towards the new manager. Jesus fucking Christ, He's been in the job five minutes and I keep hearing ad nauseum how he hasn't achieved anything, how he's only been in the EPL (get ter fuck with this pitiful fucking excuse of an acronym), and how anyone who has any sort of faith or belief in him is delusional. Well what the fuck do you actually want? Do you really want him to succeed or is the truth more that you actually do you want him to fail so you can wheel out your arrogant "I told you so's" at the end of the season? Honestly, it's more depressing than Hodgson's style of football.

I'm not making a direct comparison of ability, just before any of the doom mongers see the names and jump in feet first, but every manager has to start somewhere on their managerial career. At least having bags of experience as a youth coach and a decent Swansea team in the league for one season was better experience than King Kenny taking over the job for the first time as an absolute novice or Guardiola taking over a Barcelona team after a solitary season as a reserve coach. And both these teams were chock full of stars and winners, not a team who had finished 8th in the league the season before they took over. And that doesn't mean that Rodgers will go on to be anywhere near as successful as them. But as far as sticks go for beating him with, you might want to at least give him a full season to see whether his lack of experience is telling in where we finish.

Brendan Rodgers just cannot win with some people. They say he's inexperienced, and yet won't even give him a chance to learn as he goes along. I suppose it was his sacking at Reading that led to Halsey fucking up at least six decisions? Or maybe it was his constantly espousing his footballing philosophy that caused Skrtel to pass the ball to Tevez for an easy goal? How about the fact that he was never a proper professional footballer that meant Pepe fumbled around like a 15 year old trying to unfasten a bra against Hearts and Arsenal? For fucks sake, I've lost count of the times that I've read it really wasn't his methods at Swansea that got them playing so well. You know how far down the barrel you must be scraping when you're crediting Paolo Souza with taking four points off us last year.

Kristian's OP was excellent, balanced and never had any hyperbole in it as far as I could see. In a nutshell, he said he's done some good things, some not so good, but he can at least sense things going in the right direction as long as it continues in the next few games. But an agenda is an agenda. So if people want to criticise him, they'll keep on doing so. If we'd have won on Sunday, it would have been "but how fucking inconsistent are we?" "We only raise it for the big games" blah fucking blah. If we win tomorrow with a bunch of kids it'll be "but they were Rafa's kids" or "why can't he get the first 11 playing like that" blah fucking blah. Win against Norwich and it'll be "I need to see it regularly before I'm convinced" or "It's only a shit Norwich team" blah fucking blah. He might not win anything at all with everyone on his side but equally he might win everything even if every man and his dog doesn't like him. But not giving him a chance at all is wrong on every level.

[The 5th Benitle]

Macca that's magnificent 

[Chakan]

@Macca

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

but every manager has to start somewhere on their managerial career.

Spot on post Macca
 

[Les Willis]

Totally agree Macca. 

[Bangin Them In]

Spot on Macca and good OP as well.

A certain element of our support are never happy unless they are moaning, and it seems to be a bit of look at me, knowing it will fire some others up

Happened with GH, Rafa, Kenny and now BR, seems a price we pay for freedom of speech

[Paul-LFC]

To be absolutely honest, I'm astounded and sick to fucking death in equal measures of the negativity towards the new manager. Jesus fucking Christ, He's been in the job five minutes and I keep hearing ad nauseum how he hasn't achieved anything, how he's only been in the EPL (get ter fuck with this pitiful fucking excuse of an acronym), and how anyone who has any sort of faith or belief in him is delusional. Well what the fuck do you actually want? Do you really want him to succeed or is the truth more that you actually do you want him to fail so you can wheel out your arrogant "I told you so's" at the end of the season? Honestly, it's more depressing than Hodgson's style of football.

I'm not making a direct comparison of ability, just before any of the doom mongers see the names and jump in feet first, but every manager has to start somewhere on their managerial career. At least having bags of experience as a youth coach and a decent Swansea team in the league for one season was better experience than King Kenny taking over the job for the first time as an absolute novice or Guardiola taking over a Barcelona team after a solitary season as a reserve coach. And both these teams were chock full of stars and winners, not a team who had finished 8th in the league the season before they took over. And that doesn't mean that Rodgers will go on to be anywhere near as successful as them. But as far as sticks go for beating him with, you might want to at least give him a full season to see whether his lack of experience is telling in where we finish.

Brendan Rodgers just cannot win with some people. They say he's inexperienced, and yet won't even give him a chance to learn as he goes along. I suppose it was his sacking at Reading that led to Halsey fucking up at least six decisions? Or maybe it was his constantly espousing his footballing philosophy that caused Skrtel to pass the ball to Tevez for an easy goal? How about the fact that he was never a proper professional footballer that meant Pepe fumbled around like a 15 year old trying to unfasten a bra against Hearts and Arsenal? For fucks sake, I've lost count of the times that I've read it really wasn't his methods at Swansea that got them playing so well. You know how far down the barrel you must be scraping when you're crediting Paolo Souza with taking four points off us last year.

Kristian's OP was excellent, balanced and never had any hyperbole in it as far as I could see. In a nutshell, he said he's done some good things, some not so good, but he can at least sense things going in the right direction as long as it continues in the next few games. But an agenda is an agenda. So if people want to criticise him, they'll keep on doing so. If we'd have won on Sunday, it would have been "but how fucking inconsistent are we?" "We only raise it for the big games" blah fucking blah. If we win tomorrow with a bunch of kids it'll be "but they were Rafa's kids" or "why can't he get the first 11 playing like that" blah fucking blah. Win against Norwich and it'll be "I need to see it regularly before I'm convinced" or "It's only a shit Norwich team" blah fucking blah. He might not win anything at all with everyone on his side but equally he might win everything even if every man and his dog doesn't like him. But not giving him a chance at all is wrong on every level.

Spot on.

[The G in Gerrard]

Superb post from Macca888. Some just want to look for faults with the club.

[Bangin Them In]

Also think that the genuine happiness and relish with which some approach our defeats is sickening

[Zlen]

From the heart and to the point.
Bit strange to see posts like this so soon when there is evident progress in our playing with each passing game.

[PaLee]

Spot on, Macca.

[TepidT2O]

Also think that the genuine happiness and relish with which some approach our defeats is sickening

Odd this....

I don't really bother with after match threads much, but I have had genuine happiness after all our performances (bar WBA and may be Arsenal)

Best football we've played in years.


Heaps of young players showing they clearly are going to be great players


The managers got a plan that's going to succeed.

His brand of football is superb, but clearly will take time to work.  All this balls about being more pragmatic and going back to basics makes me utterly confused....  We haven't got a goal scorer, we've lost games to goals form individual errors....  What will gouge back to basics have to do with this....

I reckon we give him this year to get stuff up and running and then worry about league position next year.

[bravarado7]

Macca the man of the moment.

That does it for the thread's closing ceremony.