Topic: Elections in Europe

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

I have lived here for years and its noticeable become a more and more colder place to immigrants and other races.

Sorry to pick out one line only, but that's a textbook case of responding to information? If it became more and more colder it clearly started out not as cold as it is now.

I would wager if the only immigrants the Dutch ever let in in their history were say enterprising, secular ie not deeply religious, practical Chinese from Hong Kong and Singapore - this election result doesn't happen and the Dutch would be loving the new recruits generation after generation.

You have to own housing and immigration. The only housing market should be that of luxury, everything else should be government controlled, in space, comfortable, no cultural silos, get exposed to your fellow man, good infrastructure...it's a right for citizens.

Your best minds should be scouring the world for talent, it could be some Muslim kid in war torn Syria, desperate for a shot, never heard a word of Dutch, you assign him the task and six weeks later he has the basics. Tell him we don't take religion seriously here, we manage people, make sure he agrees to your rules, then you let him in. Worst case if he can't shake his dumb conditioning, you still got some juice out of a top talent before kicking him out. Best case, a top contributor.If it's people from cultures that already have it right, successful countries boxing above their weight like Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong pre China, even easier.

You must discriminate (part of your points weighting) based on the success or failure of the country (often ruled by religion) an individual comes from, his / her mind contains the / was exposed to thought patterns that led to that collective failure. On the other hand, you spot a minority in a say Muslim majority country, treated like 2nd class garbage, but making something of himself / herself: roll out the red carpet! That's talent and steel. Examples would be Indonesian Chinese, Malaysian Chinese and Indians, and hell, maybe Muslims from Modi ruled India soon. Top female students in Iran.
Assess and filter the hell out of what you pick, that's the job. The world is full of opportunities to hire talent because there are a lot more shitholes than even mediocrely functioning units  You need to own it, turn it into a strength, not underfund it and let it be used as a vehicle for loser parties on the 'right' to attach to. Your tax and immigration departments should renumerate very well. Immigration isn't just defence, it's about recruitment, having people with a background in psychology, world affairs, deploying them worldwide, having a recruitment office in every hellhole, where desperation is at its maximum, you can't teach that sort of drive; incentivizing your people for successful additions, assessed over time.
Instead you have people like Braverman achieving nothing, just playing to her insecure, unimaginative gallery.

[Fruity]

The media has a massive part to play in all this.

Just reading about the incident in Dublin and how people have taken to the streets in protest. Supposedly the guy who did the stabbing was a migrant Algerian. I have no idea if Dublin has a migration problem or not. And maybe people would have taken to the streets regardless. But it feels like the point that this guy is a migrant has riled people up even more. Already on Twitter the usual suspects are turning it into a story against migration.

[CraigR2323]

The media has a massive part to play in all this.

Just reading about the incident in Dublin and how people have taken to the streets in protest. Supposedly the guy who did the stabbing was a migrant Algerian. I have no idea if Dublin has a migration problem or not. And maybe people would have taken to the streets regardless. But it feels like the point that this guy is a migrant has riled people up even more. Already on Twitter the usual suspects are turning it into a story against migration.

Dublin doesn't have an 'immigrant problem'; like any city, it has a problem with idiots. I work in Dublin, it's as vibrant and multi-cultured as London/Liverpool/Manchester etc. These fucking clowns attacking the guards are not representative of the Irish people, although I'm not Irish, on returning to the rural South East, where you'd expect them to agree with the Dublin Mob, they don't. They were disgusted. The Irish are World Fucking Champions at being immigrants, but some scum bag c*nts in Dublin don't represent them - far from it. Wankers spoiling for a fight. Absolute shower of stupid fucking c*nts.

[GreatEx]

Sorry to pick out one line only, but that's a textbook case of responding to information? If it became more and more colder it clearly started out not as cold as it is now.

I would wager if the only immigrants the Dutch ever let in in their history were say enterprising, secular ie not deeply religious, practical Chinese from Hong Kong and Singapore - this election result doesn't happen and the Dutch would be loving the new recruits generation after generation.

You have to own housing and immigration. The only housing market should be that of luxury, everything else should be government controlled, in space, comfortable, no cultural silos, get exposed to your fellow man, good infrastructure...it's a right for citizens.

Your best minds should be scouring the world for talent, it could be some Muslim kid in war torn Syria, desperate for a shot, never heard a word of Dutch, you assign him the task and six weeks later he has the basics. Tell him we don't take religion seriously here, we manage people, make sure he agrees to your rules, then you let him in. Worst case if he can't shake his dumb conditioning, you still got some juice out of a top talent before kicking him out. Best case, a top contributor.If it's people from cultures that already have it right, successful countries boxing above their weight like Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong pre China, even easier.

You must discriminate (part of your points weighting) based on the success or failure of the country (often ruled by religion) an individual comes from, his / her mind contains the / was exposed to thought patterns that led to that collective failure. On the other hand, you spot a minority in a say Muslim majority country, treated like 2nd class garbage, but making something of himself / herself: roll out the red carpet! That's talent and steel. Examples would be Indonesian Chinese, Malaysian Chinese and Indians, and hell, maybe Muslims from Modi ruled India soon. Top female students in Iran.
Assess and filter the hell out of what you pick, that's the job. The world is full of opportunities to hire talent because there are a lot more shitholes than even mediocrely functioning units  You need to own it, turn it into a strength, not underfund it and let it be used as a vehicle for loser parties on the 'right' to attach to. Your tax and immigration departments should renumerate very well. Immigration isn't just defence, it's about recruitment, having people with a background in psychology, world affairs, deploying them worldwide, having a recruitment office in every hellhole, where desperation is at its maximum, you can't teach that sort of drive; incentivizing your people for successful additions, assessed over time.
Instead you have people like Braverman achieving nothing, just playing to her insecure, unimaginative gallery.

I agree with your points about housing. And to address an earlier point, making housing a right available to all does not have to mean bulldozing nature and creating a concrete jungle. There needs to be a shift towards more communal forms of living. Doesn't necessarily have to mean high-rise, but maybe look to arrangements like the kibbutz for inspiration. As more of the world aspires to the western consumerist lifestyle, is it really feasible for everyone to have their own car, their own washer and dryer, kitchens with all the latest high-end fittings? For much of human history large groups have cooked and shared meals together, lived in large multi-generational households etc. Now we are more atomic and convinced that we can "have it all" to ourselves... but that dream was never sustainable and is slipping away, so maybe it's time to stop and plan for what lies ahead.

On immigration: what you advocate here is what the centre-right Liberal-National coalition that's dominated Australian government for the past 30 years has pushed for - immigration, but only of "useful" people. I think with all these things there is a balance. Yes, a country should be able to control immigration in ways that best suit their needs, but a person's worth isn't purely economic. An elderly parent may not contribute tax revenue, but may stabilise and nurture a family or community. Providing safe haven for those facing persecution in their home country improves international relations and (should!) make the citizenry proud. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of actively scouring the planet looking for the best and brightest and trying to recruit them - good for our country, but you may be taking away the person who could help drag that country out of its malaise. Why not instead help them along that path if we can identify them? Surely increasing the number of safe and prosperous locations on Earth is to everyone's benefit.

[Red Beret]

The human race seems to be rapidly disappearing up it's own arse. Humanity has become Ouroboros - devouring its own tail in search of clicks.

The media are complicit in feeding people a narrative that's creating a collective hysteria, even insanity, over issues that don't really exist. And as the feedback loop gathers pace, they resort to ever more extremes in the name of "entertainment" and "revenue streams".

[BoRed]

This also goes to show why I am not a fan of PR and why those in the UK who are for PR who believe that it will keep right and far right parties out of Govt are deluding themselves. As the centre right-far right parties would have just as much a chance, if not moreso of forming any coalition as the centre left and far left parties would.

FPTP isn't perfect but I'm fan of that over PR.

This couldn't be more wrong. Look at the electoral map of the Netherlands (this week's is the last one on the right):



With FPTP, the fascist would have had an overwhelming majority in parliament. As it is, he got less than a quarter of the votes, and will get less than a quarter of the seats. He'll need to persuade at least two other parties to work with him to form a government, and he will most likely fail.

If anything, this election is a textbook example of how PR keeps the extreme parties out of government, and why it's better and fairer than FPTP.

[Red-Soldier]

This couldn't be more wrong. Look at the electoral map of the Netherlands (this week's is the last one on the right):



With FPTP, the fascist would have had an overwhelming majority in parliament. As it is, he got less than a quarter of the votes, and will get less than a quarter of the seats. He'll need to persuade at least two other parties to work with him to form a government, and he will most likely fail.

If anything, this election is a textbook example of how PR keeps the extreme parties out of government, and why it's better and fairer than FPTP.

Indeed.

[thaddeus]

This couldn't be more wrong. Look at the electoral map of the Netherlands (this week's is the last one on the right):

...

With FPTP, the fascist would have had an overwhelming majority in parliament. As it is, he got less than a quarter of the votes, and will get less than a quarter of the seats. He'll need to persuade at least two other parties to work with him to form a government, and he will most likely fail.

If anything, this election is a textbook example of how PR keeps the extreme parties out of government, and why it's better and fairer than FPTP.

Thanks Bo.  It is a scary thought that such a crank party could have taken outright control of the Netherlands!

I agree with PatriotScouser to a point though.  FPTP tends to stop the extreme parties from ever gaining enough of a foothold to become viable outside of their core supporters.  The BNP under Nick Griffin and UKIP under Frottage gained some momentum but a tiny Westminster presence (one seat combined) and ultimately only acted as pressure groups to the established parties.  UKIP under PR may well have gone on to establish themselves after 2015 (when they had over 12% of the vote) rather than Frottage throwing them under the bus in favour of Brexit-backing Tory candidates.

I'm broadly in favour of PR though.  Through my poor life choices in where I've chosen to live I'm in my 40s now and have never had a meaningful vote in a general election.  Whistling in the wind backing the non-Tory candidate in areas where the proverbial pig in a blue rosette would win hands down.

[TSC]

Poland’s government is no more

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/poland-s-outgoing-government-loses-confidence-vote/ar-AA1lkPLv

[Nobby Reserve]

Macron has appointed 34 year old 'wonderkid' Gabriel Atta as new French PM.

Formerly a member of the Socialists, he abandoned left-of-centre economics to embrace Macron's right-wing, pro-corporate economic libertarianism.

[Nobby Reserve]

Orban doing a fine job in Hungary

https://archive.ph/ugbpo

[FlashingBlade]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/13/geert-wilders-gives-up-hope-of-being-dutch-pm-due-to-lack-of-support

As expected
.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Peter Pellegrini: Russia-friendly populist elected Slovak president
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68754112

Mr Pellegrini, 48, defeated the pro-Western Ivan Korčok, a former diplomat, with 53% of the vote.

A former prime minister, he is an ally of Prime Minister Robert Fico, and shares the PM's dovish attitude towards Russia.

Mr Fico and his allies now control Slovakia's parliament, government, and soon the president's office.

Slovakia had been one of Ukraine's staunchest allies before Mr Fico came to power in October on a pledge to halt supplies of Slovak Army military stocks to Kyiv. With Mr Pellegrini replacing Mrs Caputova, Ukraine has now definitively lost a voice of support in an EU and Nato capital.

Mr Fico has called for an end to Western military support for Ukraine, an immediate ceasefire, and peace talks with Moscow. He said recently President Vladimir Putin had been "unfairly demonised" and argued admitting Ukraine to Nato would mark the beginning of a third world war.

Mr Pellegrini's campaignechoed some of that Moscow-friendly rhetoric, accusing Mr Korčok of being a warmonger who would send Slovak soldiers to fight in Ukraine - a constitutional power the president does not have.

On Sunday Mr Pellegrini vowed "to ensure that Slovakia remains on the side of peace and not on the side of war".

"You don't have to worry that the Presidential Palace, as it has been for the last 10 years, will become a centre of oppositional, opportunistic power that will harm the government, that will harm the state abroad and will rejoice in the failures of the Slovak government," he said.

Once Mrs Caputova steps down in June, there will no longer be any high-level official in Slovakia - a country which barely a year ago donated its entire fleet of MiG-29 aircraft to Ukraine - who unequivocally backs Kyiv's effort to defend its territory with force.

Mr Korčok expressed his anger at Mr Pellegrini's campaign tactics, saying it was fear that decided the outcome of the election, and "that fear was spread by those who are hidden in state positions".

He said of the result: "It turns out that it is possible to become President of the Slovak Republic not only by spreading hatred, whipping up passions and pushing people to the barricades, but also by painting the opposite number, that is to say, me, as a candidate of war. I will not forget this."

The liberal pro-Western opposition also accuses Mr Pellegrini - as head of the coalition Hlas party and chairman of parliament - of remaining silent as Mr Fico took a wrecking ball to Slovakia's criminal justice system, notably abolishing the Special Prosecutor's Office, which was set up 20 years ago to probe serious corruption and economic crime.

It hadinvestigated a number of senior officials in Mr Fico's Smer party, and had been overseeing the prosecution of those believed to be responsible for the murder of investigative journalist Jan Kuciak and his fiancée Martina Kusnirova in 2018.

The killings were a seismic event in Slovak politics. The fallout ended Mr Fico's second premiership in 2018 and led to the liberal, pro-Western Zuzana Caputova being elected president on a wave of popular anger at official corruption and organised crime.

Robert Fico's government recently set its sights on Slovakia's public broadcaster, submitting plans to abolish the institution and replace it with one under virtual state control. Those plans were put on the back burner after a surprisingly poor showing from Peter Pellegrini in the first round of the presidential election two weeks ago.

The opposition fears a reinvigorated Robert Fico will resubmit them - and they say President-elect Pellegrini is unlikely to stand in his way.