Topic: UAPs over America: real or balloons??

[Alan_X]

My fave was always The Day the Earth Stood Still. Big shiny flying saucer, big shiny robot, mad professor, alien with message for mankind, little boy, little boy's mum with big pointy tits, what's not to like! And they were all grey (pre colour).

Classic - "Klaatu barada nikto"



(I didn't search for "mum with pointy tits")

[lionel_messias]

The 2017 NYT article is based on accounts by Luis Elizondo and was vouched for by Harry Reid and Robert Bigelow - see my post above. In other words, the verification of the story came directly form the same root - Skinwalker Ranch. And you're right - everything we're seeing now stems from that article.

There were undoubtedly sources in Washington because Harry Reid and other believers in UFOs used government money to indulge their interests in paranormal activity and UFOs.

From the NYT article:

Mr. Reid said his interest in U.F.O.s came from Mr. Bigelow. In 2007, Mr. Reid said in the interview, Mr. Bigelow told him that an official with the Defense Intelligence Agency had approached him wanting to visit Mr. Bigelow’s ranch in Utah, where he conducted research.

Mr. Reid said he met with agency officials shortly after his meeting with Mr. Bigelow and learned that they wanted to start a research program on U.F.O.s. Mr. Reid then summoned Mr. Stevens and Mr. Inouye to a secure room in the Capitol.

and

Contracts obtained by The Times show a congressional appropriation of just under $22 million beginning in late 2008 through 2011. The money was used for management of the program, research and assessments of the threat posed by the objects.

The funding went to Mr. Bigelow’s company, Bigelow Aerospace, which hired subcontractors and solicited research for the program.

Under Mr. Bigelow’s direction, the company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena. Researchers also studied people who said they had experienced physical effects from encounters with the objects and examined them for any physiological changes. In addition, researchers spoke to military service members who had reported sightings of strange aircraft.

and

“We’re sort of in the position of what would happen if you gave Leonardo da Vinci a garage-door opener,” said Harold E. Puthoff, an engineer who has conducted research on extrasensory perception for the C.I.A. and later worked as a contractor for the program. “First of all, he’d try to figure out what is this plastic stuff. He wouldn’t know anything about the electromagnetic signals involved or its function.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html
 
It's all there in the article - Bigelow, Skinwalker Ranch, Puthoff, Elizondo... It's actually really poor journalism.

Not sure how it qualifies as poor journalism?

I've read the article and yes there are mentions of those things. Elizondo is a former intelligence officer who was selected to take charge of AATIP, where he had high clearance.

The main thrust of the article is that UAP are being studied by various factions and groups within the US intelligence community and that some money has been appropriated for this task. The authors are highly respected investigative journalists and this was a watershed of information that had not previously been reported by anyone for decades.

But again of course, the only thing that can be said is that "something" real is being investigated and nothing proven. The cycle will of course continue ---according to you, FOREEVER with no outcome---according to other opinions, sometime sooner than that

[liverbloke]

Classic - "Klaatu barada nikto"



(I didn't search for "mum with pointy tits")

i did - blimey

[Jiminy Cricket]

This is the exact same energy that the Qanon & MAGA movements have over the public release of info relating to election fraud, satanic influence over politics, sex trafficking of children in tunnels under Washington, etc etc. The evidence is always 'about to come out', there are always secret whistleblowers about to "bring down the cabal", etc etc. Last summer they even kept repeating "Eyes on the audit" as a mantra (that privately funded one that went nowhere).

I'm certainly not accusing anyone on here of being involved in those movements, but to an outsider it looks like the exact same sort of unjustified belief, and the lure into the conspiracy belief is the same thing - that you guys are in on the ground floor of having all the secret info, that you're 'awake' whilst the majority of the population are sleeping, blissfully unaware of the 'real' truth. And you keep being told that you're all going to be proved right real soon.

E-yep-p.

[Jiminy Cricket]

They have and it's going to be released, they're just waiting on Kennedy getting his shit together.

[Dr. Beaker]

Classic - "Klaatu barada nikto"



(I didn't search for "mum with pointy tits")

[Jiminy Cricket]

Classic - "Klaatu barada nikto"



(I didn't search for "mum with pointy tits")

I did.



https://musingsofamiddleagedgeek.blog/2021/03/02/the-day-the-earth-stood-still-1951-70-years-later-and-still-standing/

[rob1966]

I did.



https://musingsofamiddleagedgeek.blog/2021/03/02/the-day-the-earth-stood-still-1951-70-years-later-and-still-standing/

That's NOTHING like what my search brought back

[Jiminy Cricket]

That's NOTHING like what my search brought back

Yeah. I thought it best to narrow my search parameters a little. Or a lot.

Here's a fine example for Dr. Beaker:

Spoiler

[close]

[rob1966]

Yeah. I thought it best to narrow my search parameters a little. Or a lot.

Here's a fine example for Dr. Beaker:

Spoiler

[close]

Have your eyes out them

[BER]

They have certainly become ingrained into popular culture.

Did anyone come across the Wikileaks emails from the Russian hacking of Hilary Clintons mail server and the private conversations between John Podesta and a private aerospace contractor? They discuss “fastwalkers” where military satellites facing the earth have tracked objects coming into and going back out of earths atmosphere doing angled turns.

No doubt the emails themselves are genuine. Again, without any hard evidence to back up the conversation apart from the fact the conversation actually happened.

'Fastwalkers' a 2006 documentary about Alien abductions.

[lionel_messias]

Haven't seen that one, I believe it was Hilary Clinton who first started using the term UAP instead of the earlier term which is coated in stigma from many decades since the 1940s.

Of course, Hilary Clinton could come out and say the Pope was a Catholic and 65% of Americans would cry "bullshit".


Yep, satellite data on what has been coming in and out of Earth's atmosphere; that would be quite handy at this point.

[lobsterboy]

Hilary Clinton and her emails are now appearing.

Mods, please close the thread.

[lionel_messias]

Hilary Clinton and her emails are now appearing.

Mods, please close the thread.

Yeah man, best to leave her out of it.

[thejbs]

Is there any evidence that would result in believers abandoning their faith in this? If government say there is no evidence of any aliens approaching earth, is that enough? If they produce data and evidence is that enough?

[rob1966]

Is there any evidence that would result in believers abandoning their faith in this? If government say there is no evidence of any aliens approaching earth, is that enough? If they produce data and evidence is that enough?

No, they'd just fall back on the government is covering it up argument and any data they produced would be called fake.

We live in a time where people believe covid was a spread by 5G, vaccines carry trackers, the earth is flat, photos taken from space are fake and that we never went to the Moon, even though it can be proved with the Lunar Laser Retro-Reflector that Armstrong and Aldrin left on the moon and was used for 40 years to give a accurate distance of the moon from the earth.

[Alan_X]

Not sure how it qualifies as poor journalism?

I've read the article and yes there are mentions of those things. Elizondo is a former intelligence officer who was selected to take charge of AATIP, where he had high clearance.

The main thrust of the article is that UAP are being studied by various factions and groups within the US intelligence community and that some money has been appropriated for this task. The authors are highly respected investigative journalists and this was a watershed of information that had not previously been reported by anyone for decades.

But again of course, the only thing that can be said is that "something" real is being investigated and nothing proven. The cycle will of course continue ---according to you, FOREEVER with no outcome---according to other opinions, sometime sooner than that

This Elizondo?

Whatever the truth about otherworldly UFOs (cue a collective eye-roll from scientists), there is one crucial detail missing from “Unidentified,” as well as from all the many stories that have quoted Elizondo since he outed himself nearly two years ago to a wide-eyed news media: There is no discernible evidence that he ever worked for a government UFO program, much less led one.

Yes, AATIP existed, and it “did pursue research and investigation into unidentified aerial phenomena,” Pentagon spokesperson Christopher Sherwood told me. However, he added: “Mr. Elizondo had no responsibilities with regard to the AATIP program while he worked in OUSDI [the Office of Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence], up until the time he resigned effective 10/4/2017.”

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/01/ufo-unidentified-history-channel-luis-elizondo-pentagon/

Of the three authors of the NYT article Leslie Kean had been a UFO believer before writing the piece. She's author of: UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record, 2010. She's also a member of UFODATA a UFO believer organisation.

One of the others is Ralph Blumenthal. Another UFO believer. They co-wrote an article for Huffington Post in 2012 which breathlessly described a "UFO Caught on Tape Over Santiago Airbase".

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-extraordinary-ufo-sig_b_1342585

The video shows planes flying over an airfield with flies (sorry UFOs) flashing across the screen.

Also by Leslie Kean in Huff Post:

Is There a UFO Cover-up? A Government Insider Speaks Out
Chris Mellon has spent nearly 20 years in the federal government serving in various national security positions. For the first time, he has agreed to speak publicly about his experiences within government as they relate to UFOs.


About six months ago, our board at UFODATA was privileged to welcome Christopher Mellon as the newest member of our team. Chris spent nearly 20 years in the federal government serving in various national security positions. For the first time, he has agreed to speak publicly about his experiences within government as they relate to UFOs.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/is-there-a-ufo-coverup-a_b_9865184

So "highly respected investigative journalists" or long-time UFO believers who managed to get a pro-Disclosure piece published in the New York Times?

It's amazing how much of a circle-jerk the UFO world is.

[rob1966]

Here's a gtreat example of the kind of analysis that Mick West does.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/nPGmUF6R3CY&amp;feature=share" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/nPGmUF6R3CY&amp;feature=share</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPGmUF6R3CY
Just thorough step by step working through the information available. This is the reason I trust his views more than someone like Dave Fravor, because I can reproduce the results Mick West gets whereas for Fravor I just have to trust him because he's a Top Gun and some pilot was at another pilot's wedding.

Another really interesting video. Mick West and Chris Lehto who was an F-16 pilot and initially dismissed West's analysis.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/neTfX9Jx5AY&amp;feature=share" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/neTfX9Jx5AY&amp;feature=share</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neTfX9Jx5AY

My take from this and the photos you subsequenty posted, is that the person who first posted the tic tac video knew exactly what he'd filmed and just wanted a bit of attention or to wind people up. Anyone who has flown knows full well that when you see another plane out of the window, you can clearly see what you are looking at, regardless of the distance. I've watched planes fly past in the opposite direction plenty of times, flying over North America heading to Orlando I've watched planes land at airports below us and you know exactly what it is. Its the same sat in the garden watching airliners at 37,000 ft, you can clearly see what they are.

[Alan_X]

No, they'd just fall back on the government is covering it up argument and any data they produced would be called fake.

We live in a time where people believe covid was a spread by 5G, vaccines carry trackers, the earth is flat, photos taken from space are fake and that we never went to the Moon, even though it can be proved with the Lunar Laser Retro-Reflector that Armstrong and Aldrin left on the moon and was used for 40 years to give a accurate distance of the moon from the earth.

Exactly - while I was looking into leslie Kean I found this article from the New Yorker. It starts with an earlier Disclosure event that was going to lift the lid on the incredible secrets being suppressed by the US Government. A 492 page dossier called the "Project Disclosure Project Briefing Document" was made public in May 2001 by Steven M Greer.

It was the same stuff:

...untold numbers of alien craft had been observed in our planet’s airspace; they were able to reach extreme velocities with no visible means of lift or propulsion, and to perform stunning maneuvers at g-forces that would turn a human pilot to soup.

Some of these extraterrestrial spaceships had been “downed, retrieved and studied since at least the 1940s and possibly as early as the 1930s.” Efforts to reverse engineer such extraordinary machines had led to “significant technological breakthroughs in energy generation.” These operations had mostly been classified as “cosmic top secret,” a tier of clearance “thirty-eight levels” above that typically granted to the Commander-in-Chief. Why, Greer asked, had such transformative technologies been hidden for so long? This was obvious. The “social, economic and geo-political order of the world” was at stake...

...and so it goes.

I did like this line in the article:

(One obvious question seems not to have occurred to Greer: Why, if these spacecraft are so advanced, do they allegedly crash all the time?)

Good question.

[rob1966]

Exactly - while I was looking into leslie Kean I found this article from the New Yorker. It starts with an earlier Disclosure event that was going to lift the lid on the incredible secrets being suppressed by the US Government. A 492 page dossier called the "Project Disclosure Project Briefing Document" was made public in May 2001 by Steven M Greer.

It was the same stuff:

...untold numbers of alien craft had been observed in our planet’s airspace; they were able to reach extreme velocities with no visible means of lift or propulsion, and to perform stunning maneuvers at g-forces that would turn a human pilot to soup.

Some of these extraterrestrial spaceships had been “downed, retrieved and studied since at least the 1940s and possibly as early as the 1930s.” Efforts to reverse engineer such extraordinary machines had led to “significant technological breakthroughs in energy generation.” These operations had mostly been classified as “cosmic top secret,” a tier of clearance “thirty-eight levels” above that typically granted to the Commander-in-Chief. Why, Greer asked, had such transformative technologies been hidden for so long? This was obvious. The “social, economic and geo-political order of the world” was at stake...

...and so it goes.

I did like this line in the article:

(One obvious question seems not to have occurred to Greer: Why, if these spacecraft are so advanced, do they allegedly crash all the time?)

Good question.

They fly across billions of miles of deadly space, avoiding stars, planets, asteroids, meteors and umpteen other hazards, then they can't even land

[Alan_X]

My take from this and the photos you subsequenty posted, is that the person who first posted the tic tac video knew exactly what he'd filmed and just wanted a bit of attention or to wind people up. Anyone who has flown knows full well that when you see another plane out of the window, you can clearly see what you are looking at, regardless of the distance. I've watched planes fly past in the opposite direction plenty of times, flying over North America heading to Orlando I've watched planes land at airports below us and you know exactly what it is. Its the same sat in the garden watching airliners at 37,000 ft, you can clearly see what they are.

I'm a bit more generous perhaps. If you're not a frequent flyer and the plane is at the right angle you don't always see the wings and if it has dark tail markings you just see the fuselage. I was flying back from Germany a few weeks back - landing westbound early evening into City Airport - and spotted a plane coming the other way and as it caught the setting sun it looked like a wingless, metallic cigar.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Is there any evidence that would result in believers abandoning their faith in this? If government say there is no evidence of any aliens approaching earth, is that enough? If they produce data and evidence is that enough?

Dunno. Ask Lionel. (Sorry, Lionel). But yeah, ask Lionel.

[[new username under construction]]

Has Mick West done the Mosul Orb yet?

[Alan_X]

Has Mick West done the Mosul Orb yet?

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mosul-sphere.12850/

Edit - no firm conclusion. There's not enough information. The original video would be helpful but hasn't been released.

[Dr. Beaker]

Exactly - while I was looking into leslie Kean I found this article from the New Yorker. It starts with an earlier Disclosure event that was going to lift the lid on the incredible secrets being suppressed by the US Government. A 492 page dossier called the "Project Disclosure Project Briefing Document" was made public in May 2001 by Steven M Greer.

It was the same stuff:

...untold numbers of alien craft had been observed in our planet’s airspace; they were able to reach extreme velocities with no visible means of lift or propulsion, and to perform stunning maneuvers at g-forces that would turn a human pilot to soup.

Some of these extraterrestrial spaceships had been “downed, retrieved and studied since at least the 1940s and possibly as early as the 1930s.” Efforts to reverse engineer such extraordinary machines had led to “significant technological breakthroughs in energy generation.” These operations had mostly been classified as “cosmic top secret,” a tier of clearance “thirty-eight levels” above that typically granted to the Commander-in-Chief. Why, Greer asked, had such transformative technologies been hidden for so long? This was obvious. The “social, economic and geo-political order of the world” was at stake...

...and so it goes.

I did like this line in the article:

(One obvious question seems not to have occurred to Greer: Why, if these spacecraft are so advanced, do they allegedly crash all the time?)

Good question.

I think to answer that you would need a tier of clearance at least “thirty-nine levels” above that typically granted to the Commander-in-Chief.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Nice to see people looking into whatever is behind this enigma regardless of what conclusions we all draw from what we look into.

Some more chat today, that the date of the next UAP hearing will be announced next week, it will be completely public, no closed section, will be no DOD agents this time and it will be pilot testimony.

Greer is a strange one, comes out with some very far fetched claims mixed in with more reasonable stuff.

[lionel_messias]

This Elizondo?

Whatever the truth about otherworldly UFOs (cue a collective eye-roll from scientists), there is one crucial detail missing from “Unidentified,” as well as from all the many stories that have quoted Elizondo since he outed himself nearly two years ago to a wide-eyed news media: There is no discernible evidence that he ever worked for a government UFO program, much less led one.

Yes, AATIP existed, and it “did pursue research and investigation into unidentified aerial phenomena,” Pentagon spokesperson Christopher Sherwood told me. However, he added: “Mr. Elizondo had no responsibilities with regard to the AATIP program while he worked in OUSDI [the Office of Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence], up until the time he resigned effective 10/4/2017.”

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/01/ufo-unidentified-history-channel-luis-elizondo-pentagon/

Of the three authors of the NYT article Leslie Kean had been a UFO believer before writing the piece. She's author of: UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record, 2010. She's also a member of UFODATA a UFO believer organisation.

One of the others is Ralph Blumenthal. Another UFO believer. They co-wrote an article for Huffington Post in 2012 which breathlessly described a "UFO Caught on Tape Over Santiago Airbase".

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-extraordinary-ufo-sig_b_1342585

The video shows planes flying over an airfield with flies (sorry UFOs) flashing across the screen.

Also by Leslie Kean in Huff Post:

Is There a UFO Cover-up? A Government Insider Speaks Out
Chris Mellon has spent nearly 20 years in the federal government serving in various national security positions. For the first time, he has agreed to speak publicly about his experiences within government as they relate to UFOs.


About six months ago, our board at UFODATA was privileged to welcome Christopher Mellon as the newest member of our team. Chris spent nearly 20 years in the federal government serving in various national security positions. For the first time, he has agreed to speak publicly about his experiences within government as they relate to UFOs.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/is-there-a-ufo-coverup-a_b_9865184

So "highly respected investigative journalists" or long-time UFO believers who managed to get a pro-Disclosure piece published in the New York Times?

It's amazing how much of a circle-jerk the UFO world is.

Getting a bit long-winded now, isn't it? You going to go back
and try and debunk everyone ever involved in UAP reporting? Jesus H.

Do you think they let just anyone write an investigative piece for
The New York Times? Those journalists all have creds, you can look them up.

Now let me surprise you, journalism does not pay very well!
So often if you have contacts and expertise in a particular field, as a journalist you might
publish a book to earn some extra cash.

Keane writes a book on UFOs. Wow, shocker.

So did Ross Coultart. He speaks a lot about the topic now on Twitter.
He is claiming to have heard about people testifying to Congress.

Again, we go back, there is no smoking gun yet.

I don't need to hear from Mick flipping West, since I do not claim either of those
incidents presents inconvertible proof of something which would upset your belief systems.

So we hear pilots will testify. That will be interesting in open Congress. I would love more people to
hear Ryan Graves: not even Alan X could find dirt on him. He doesn't even want to be there, he's worries about
Aviation safety. The guy is a boyscout.

I will list out several of Ryan Graves' podcasts in another post.

He's a bucket of cold water for many of the motherfuckers who ain't got their heads set to receive.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Getting a bit long-winded now, isn't it? You going to go back
and try and debunk everyone ever involved in UAP reporting? Jesus H.

Do you think they let just anyone write an investigative piece for
The New York Times? Those journalists all have creds, you can look them up.

Now let me surprise you, journalism does not pay very well!
So often if you have contacts and expertise in a particular field, as a journalist you might
publish a book to earn some extra cash.

Keane writes a book on UFOs. Wow, shocker.

So did Ross Coultart. He speaks a lot about the topic now on Twitter.
He is claiming to have heard about people testifying to Congress.

Again, we go back, there is no smoking gun yet.

I don't need to hear from Mick flipping West, since I do not claim either of those
incidents presents inconvertible proof of something which would upset your belief systems.

So we hear pilots will testify. That will be interesting in open Congress. I would love more people to
hear Ryan Graves: not even Alan X could find dirt on him. He doesn't even want to be there, he's worries about
Aviation safety. The guy is a boyscout.

I will list out several of Ryan Graves' podcasts in another post.

He's a bucket of cold water for many of the motherfuckers who ain't got their heads set to receive.

Well said.

The Lue Elizondo piece was cherry picked to the max to suit his argument, but he omits to mention that the Pentagon dept was lying and later on back tracked. His boss at AATIP Garry Reid had a personal vendetta against him. Lue later filed a complaint to the Inspector General over the campaign to discredit him, the threats to revoke his security clearance, which later was successful and resulted in Garry Reid being fired.

[lionel_messias]

Well said.

The Lue Elizondo piece was cherry picked to the max to suit his argument, but he omits to mention that the Pentagon dept was lying and later on back tracked. His boss at AATIP Garry Reid had a personal vendetta against him. Lue later filed a complaint to the Inspector General over the campaign to discredit him, the threats to revoke his security clearance, which later was successful and resulted in Garry Reid being fired.

To be fair (which I try and be), I have not come across anything too negative about Elizondo but I was aware there were smear campaigns against him.

Not entirely sure why. He seems like a guy who has every right and ability to walk away from all of this, yet wants to bring information to the public?

I do agree with debunkers who say "Oh wow, yeah again someone claims amazing information but conveniently they can't reveal it because it is classified."

They have to find a way to bring everything possible out in the open - then let's play.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

To be fair (which I try and be), I have not come across anything too negative about Elizondo but I was aware there were smear campaigns against him.

Not entirely sure why. He seems like a guy who has every right and ability to walk away from all of this, yet wants to bring information to the public?

I do agree with debunkers who say "Oh wow, yeah again someone claims amazing information but conveniently they can't reveal it because it is classified."

They have to find a way to bring everything possible out in the open - then let's play.

Yeah I can see how that can make people skeptical, but we’re talking about jail time here for breaking NDAs.

Lue seems a genuine good honest person to me. His interview on the Kurt Jaimungal TOE podcast was really good. Again, he has his detractors, mainly because of his counter intelligence background, people accuse him of being a disinformation agent, but I’m more than happy to go with he is who he says he is until given a reason not to.

I’m fine with the debunking, but a lot of it is equally as rabid and disingenuous as the UFO charlatans. At least be balanced and honest whichever side you take.

[thejbs]

How do you find balance in something that you find patently ludicrous, though? I can no more give credence to it than I can to pizzagate, Q-Anon, or religion. It’s all baseless nonsense.

And I would LOVE to believe we’re in contact with interstellar/inter dimensional beings.

[Jiminy Cricket]

How do you find balance in something that you find patently ludicrous, though? I can no more give credence to it than I can to pizzagate, Q-Anon, or religion. It’s all baseless nonsense.

And I would LOVE to believe we’re in contact with interstellar/inter dimensional beings.

You just need to believe harder!

Yes, it would be fantastic to discover that there are alien civilizations, even just on a par with our own. Let alone aliens capable of interstellar travel. But the vast majority of so-called 'evidence' is easily explained by natural phenomena or banal earthly activities. And of the minuscule fraction which remains, just because a solid explanation is not readily to hand, this does not equal 'aliens'.

[Dr. Beaker]

Oh, ye of little faith!

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

How do you find balance in something that you find patently ludicrous, though? I can no more give credence to it than I can to pizzagate, Q-Anon, or religion. It’s all baseless nonsense.

And I would LOVE to believe we’re in contact with interstellar/inter dimensional beings.

Fair enough, not going to argue against you when you find it completely ludicrous, that’s where you’re at.

I wouldn’t say I’m a believer in anything, but equally nothing is really off the table until proven otherwise. My position is just the conclusion I have come from the historical FOIA documents, sensor data and witness testimony available.

Yes, they say 90% of it can be explained with an earthly explanation and that’s true, but 10% can’t be and that’s the part to be focussed on.

[So… Howard Philips]

Fair enough, not going to argue against you when you find it completely ludicrous, that’s where you’re at.

I wouldn’t say I’m a believer in anything, but equally nothing is really off the table until proven otherwise. My position is just the conclusion I have come from the historical FOIA documents, sensor data and witness testimony available.

Yes, they say 90% of it can be explained with an earthly explanation and that’s true, but 10% can’t be and that’s the part to be focussed on.

Given that he nearest star system to Earth is 4.25 light years away how long would it take to send, almost certainly ‘unmanned ‘ craft to Earth?

And radio communication back to base would be a 9.5 year return journey?

Any UAPs could be probes from a civilisation long dead.

[[new username under construction]]

Given that he nearest star system to Earth is 4.25 light years away how long would it take to send, almost certainly ‘unmanned ‘ craft to Earth?

And radio communication back to base would be a 9.5 year return journey?

Any UAPs could be probes from a civilisation long dead.

Why would they have to come from a planet? Can they just not live in space on their ships?

[Alan_X]

Nice to see people looking into whatever is behind this enigma regardless of what conclusions we all draw from what we look into.

Some more chat today, that the date of the next UAP hearing will be announced next week, it will be completely public, no closed section, will be no DOD agents this time and it will be pilot testimony.

Greer is a strange one, comes out with some very far fetched claims mixed in with more reasonable stuff.

I've posted my own analysis on Metabunk. Awaiting moderator approval. Interesting to see what they say.

[lobsterboy]

Given that he nearest star system to Earth is 4.25 light years away how long would it take to send, almost certainly ‘unmanned ‘ craft to Earth?

And radio communication back to base would be a 9.5 year return journey?

Any UAPs could be probes from a civilisation long dead.

Space is really, really, really big.

Any unmanned craft is an object with mass so the time has to be longer than 4.25 years.
Even if you could achieve 99.9% the speed of light then you also require long periods of acceleration and deceleration on departure and arrival.
 
Our fastest spacecraft, the Parker Solar Probe would still take 1000,s of years to travel 4.25 light years at a max speed of 430,000 mph.

V762 Cassiopoeia is the furthest star we can see with the naked eye. Over 16,000 light years.
When you look at it, the light that hits your retina was emitted 1,000's of years before the Younger Dryas began here on earth (one for the Hancock simps)

For the fastest thing in the universe, a photon travelling in a vacuum, then the time required would be exactly 4.25 years.


Of course if we are also talking about magical gravity/space folding/interdimensional/astral projecting bull shit then who knows!

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Given that he nearest star system to Earth is 4.25 light years away how long would it take to send, almost certainly ‘unmanned ‘ craft to Earth?

And radio communication back to base would be a 9.5 year return journey?

Any UAPs could be probes from a civilisation long dead.

There’s more hypothesises than just the ET hypothesis. There’s the interdimensional hypothesis, the ultra terrestrial hypothesis. I guess if the distance deems the ET hypothesis impossible within known laws of physics, then perhaps that makes the other two more likely?

I just think throughout human history, we’ve always thought we had things figured out, only to have to rewrite what we thought we knew. Who is to say we are going to have to rewrite other things? I bet the Big Bang theory will be one. Didn’t people used to ridicule the idea of invisible things you couldn’t see called germs?

I enjoy being open minded without necessarily believing until there’s concrete evidence.

[lobsterboy]

It doesn't actually make either more likely.

It just means a few % of cases still remain unexplained.
There may very well be perfectly natural explanations and I would say that is the most probable outcome in all cases.