Topic: Michael Owen

[EnfieldRed]

Started listening to the podcast this afternoon. He was a kid when he left so I feel I shouldn’t judge him too harshly. Players also want to win trophies.

Joining Man United was his choice too and I don’t have ill will towards him, didn’t at the time.

But he should understand that most fans won’t want him to act as an ambassador for the club - bridges were burnt. It just so happens that most matches shown in the UK involve LFC so it’s a lucrative gig to be a ‘Legend’.

Imagine Coutinho going to United then calling LFC “we”.

[Roughie Scouse]

He always comes across so arrogant with an inflated opinion of himself. He tries so obviously hard to create an image of himself that just doesn't seem to correlate with reality. I never think of him fondly but equally I respect the trophies he won for his. I would never boo him or give him shite but he must understand that he burnt the bridges. In the podcast today, he had no response when Carra said that he isn't loved by any of the clubs he played for. Sad really, I think if he had his time again he would do it differently.

[Sheer Magnetism]

I remember an interview with Owen a few years back where he blamed Houllier/LFC for overplaying him when he was younger for his injuries. Ignoring the fact that he'd throw a wobbler when he was ever left out the side. That's what I mean about rewriting history a bit. Now he's finished playing and he wants in on the ex-Liverpool circuit and trying to get the fans back.

His issue was that Houllier was getting him to play when he was injured and that those injuries were exacerbated as a result, not that he wasn't being rested when he was fit. The notion he was permanently crocked in 2009 isn't exactly right either. He was a one-in-three striker even in his last season at Newcastle, and he played as many games in each of those last two seasons as Sturridge did in any of his seasons with us. I do get the feeling he loves the club deep down, but that he really loved playing in general and sees rivalries like the United one as silly.

[paulrazor]

An Excellent podcast

Really enjoyed it

If you still hate him it's best you let it go, get off your high horse and give it a listen.

[Hazell]

An Excellent podcast

Really enjoyed it

If you still hate him it's best you let it go, get off your high horse and give it a listen.

I agree, was an brilliant player for us as well, a genuine phenomenon at 17 and gave us some great memories, that FA Cup final is up there as one of my favourites of all time.

On a completely unrelated note, if anyone ever picked him in a European Cup Champions and UEFA Cup Champions Draft, for example, I'd definitely vote for them.

[tubby]

I agree, was an brilliant player for us as well, a genuine phenomenon at 17 and gave us some great memories, that FA Cup final is up there as one of my favourites of all time.

On a completely unrelated note, if anyone ever picked him in a European Cup Champions and UEFA Cup Champions Draft, for example, I'd definitely vote for them.

Shameless.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Can even forgive him that. Remember him saying he was looking to join Liverpool around then too but we weren't interested anymore

Think Utd had just won 3 titles on the spin, and had played in consecutive European Cup finals. Can't really blame him for taking the chance having just played for newly-relegated Newcastle

There are things that a Liverpool player should never do and joining the Mancs is top of that list.


Did you root for him whilst he was there ?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Pretty much. He's talked in the past about the later stages of his career and how he was basically unable to follow his instincts on the pitch because he knew his hamstrings couldn't handle sprinting, and so he just ended up standing around in games. I can understand him going to united in that context, he knew he was crocked and so taking millions in wages from them while sitting on the bench isn't the worst thing, but he also says he would've preferred to sign for us, knowing he was crocked and unable to contribute.

He was obviously way past his best after his injury at Newcastle, but I'd rather have had him as back-up to Torres than Robbie Keane or Ngog. One thing his injuries did result in was his link play improving, and I think playing for Liverpool would have got an extra 10-20% out of him given the massive point he would have had to prove at the club closest to his heart.

[jillcwhomever]

I just listened to the podcast and it was interesting listening. I have always found the attitude of some of our fans towards Michael strange. Even when he was a young kid, there was an almost reluctance from some fans to acknowledge his talent. Some people seemed to always be downplaying him in some way or another. That was something I found kind of sad. It was interesting how he spoke about himself from an early age. The fact that he was prepared to think about how good he was appears to be a problem for some people. It's not something I could ever think, but that's not to say its wrong. It's about having a strong character and knowing what it is you want. I just think he was an ambitious players right from the start and he knew exactly what he wanted. That lined with his image, was something that would put off some people I suppose. But ultimately you cannot dispute his talent and how good he was, anyone who does is just being spiteful. Players have to make choices in their career, some fans seem to want them to behave like fans, but sometimes situations arise that make that impossible. The fact is Rafa didn't want him, so what choice was there other than to go somewhere else? I don't think even if he had gone back to Liverpool, he would have been better thought of by those people, who never took to him. He was on a hiding to nothing whatever choice he made by then.

[Red_Mist]

I’m similar when it comes to Owen, Jill. I was at Selhurst Pk to witness his debut off the subs bench and will never forget seeing that sudden turn of speed and then watching him score and thinking aye aye, he’s going to be something special. Then going full circle I was at Anfield when he was given dogs abuse during his first game back and I felt a bit sad for him. I completely get it and understand why, but I didn’t join in. Just a personal choice and I’d never have a go at anyone booing him (to be fair it was far more lighthearted in the recent legends game apparently, which is good to know). Still, there will be those that never forgive him going to Madrid and then wearing ‘that’ shirt. And fair enough as I say. 100% get it.  But I personally prefer to remember that he banged in 158 goals for us, some achievement that but still never makes a best XI (and not mine either to be fair).

Funnily enough, of all the goals he scored (except in Cardiff v Arsenal, that moment tops the lot for me, nearly fell over the top tier!) the one I think I celebrated most was his England goal v Argentina. I’m not an England fan by any stretch of the imagination, and I had a broken leg in plaster at the time, but i wanted him to do well so badly that when he went on that run then slotted it back across the keeper I forgot my leg and jumped off the couch and nearly shot through the ceiling. I think I ended up outside before the pain kicked in!

[DangerScouse]

There are things that a Liverpool player should never do and joining the Mancs is top of that list.


Did you root for him whilst he was there ?

Reading the scum on your holidays in Portugal is another. He's a c*nt.

[Red_Mist]

Reading the scum on your holidays in Portugal is another. He's a c*nt.

didn’t know that, unforgivable.

[paulrazor]

Reading the scum on your holidays in Portugal is another. He's a c*nt.

never heard about this

link?

[DangerScouse]

never heard about this

link?

Don't have a link. Saw it with my own eyes. I posted about it at the time somewhere on this forum.

[paulrazor]

Don't have a link. Saw it with my own eyes. I posted about it at the time somewhere on this forum.

thats a shame

nothing worse than seeing someone Liverpool related reading that

[Keith Lard]

He needs to stop whining. Seriously he is just so self unaware and doesn’t realise how privileged he is compared to virtually everyone else. He cries over ultra ultra first world problems. He will never be idolised because he never really endeared himself to supporters on a human level when he played for us, left us in a bad place and hurt the club status when he joined RM, never fought hard enough to rejoin us (seemed to have enough fight when it came to leaving us), and joining Man Utd was just fucking treachery.

Now the club is riding high and there is an opportunity to rewrite the past with a new generation of supporters that didn’t live through his Real Madrid, Newcastle and Man Utd times, he is trying to garner sympathy (being the self serving professional that he is).

We all acknowledge his achievements while playing for us and for that alone, he will always be afforded a welcome by most. He doesn’t bother me now and I’m completely neutral. But idolising by Liverpool supporters? No fucking chance. Just ain’t gonna happpen Mikey, so quit whining and get over it.

[Roughie Scouse]

He needs to stop whining. Seriously he is just so self unaware and doesn’t realise how privileged he is compared to virtually everyone else. He cries over ultra ultra first world problems. He will never be idolised because he never really endeared himself to supporters on a human level when he played for us, left us in a bad place and hurt the club status when he joined RM, never fought hard enough to rejoin us (seemed to have enough fight when it came to leaving us), and joining Man Utd was just fucking treachery.

Now the club is riding high and there is an opportunity to rewrite the past with a new generation of supporters that didn’t live through his Real Madrid, Newcastle and Man Utd times, he is trying to garner sympathy (being the self serving professional that he is).

We all acknowledge his achievements while playing for us and for that alone, he will always be afforded a welcome by most. He doesn’t bother me now and I’m completely neutral. But idolising by Liverpool supporters? No fucking chance. Just ain’t gonna happpen Mikey, so quit whining and get over it.

well said

[Red_Mist]

well said

Yep, Keith’s probably nailed how the vast majority think of him.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I just listened to the podcast and it was interesting listening. I have always found the attitude of some of our fans towards Michael strange. Even when he was a young kid, there was an almost reluctance from some fans to acknowledge his talent. Some people seemed to always be downplaying him in some way or another. That was something I found kind of sad. It was interesting how he spoke about himself from an early age. The fact that he was prepared to think about how good he was appears to be a problem for some people. It's not something I could ever think, but that's not to say its wrong. It's about having a strong character and knowing what it is you want. I just think he was an ambitious players right from the start and he knew exactly what he wanted. That lined with his image, was something that would put off some people I suppose. But ultimately you cannot dispute his talent and how good he was, anyone who does is just being spiteful. Players have to make choices in their career, some fans seem to want them to behave like fans, but sometimes situations arise that make that impossible. The fact is Rafa didn't want him, so what choice was there other than to go somewhere else? I don't think even if he had gone back to Liverpool, he would have been better thought of by those people, who never took to him. He was on a hiding to nothing whatever choice he made by then.

I know we dont see eye to eye on this Jill, you are correct he was never taken to the hearts of most fans, maybe they had a sixth sense.
I dont care he went to United, he probably thought he has no reputation with Liverpool fans to uphold so he had nothing to lose.

He isnt a very nice person.  As a school kid he would constantly belittle teammates. His England career always came before the club that made him a muliti millionaire. He acted like a twat to a builder who was a friend of the family that resulted in suicide.  (That wasnt the sole cause obviously) 

[Santiago]

I know we dont see eye to eye on this Jill, you are correct he was never taken to the hearts of most fans, maybe they had a sixth sense.
I dont care he went to United, he probably thought he has no reputation with Liverpool fans to uphold so he had nothing to lose.

He isnt a very nice person.  As a school kid he would constantly belittle teammates. His England career always came before the club that made him a muliti millionaire. He acted like a twat to a builder who was a friend of the family that resulted in suicide.  (That wasnt the sole cause obviously) 

For me, and i'll be honest, I never took to him, 'ever' because he wasn't Fowler!!.  Unfair probably, but thats where i am

[jason67]

He needs to stop whining. Seriously he is just so self unaware and doesn’t realise how privileged he is compared to virtually everyone else. He cries over ultra ultra first world problems. He will never be idolised because he never really endeared himself to supporters on a human level when he played for us, left us in a bad place and hurt the club status when he joined RM, never fought hard enough to rejoin us (seemed to have enough fight when it came to leaving us), and joining Man Utd was just fucking treachery.

Now the club is riding high and there is an opportunity to rewrite the past with a new generation of supporters that didn’t live through his Real Madrid, Newcastle and Man Utd times, he is trying to garner sympathy (being the self serving professional that he is).

We all acknowledge his achievements while playing for us and for that alone, he will always be afforded a welcome by most. He doesn’t bother me now and I’m completely neutral. But idolising by Liverpool supporters? No fucking chance. Just ain’t gonna happpen Mikey, so quit whining and get over it.

Good post that mate. Id rather him having nothing to do with us and his ambassador role is a joke, a lot more former players should be ahead of him.

[vladis voice]

For me, and i'll be honest, I never took to him, 'ever' because he wasn't Fowler!!.  Unfair probably, but thats where i am

This...Owen came across as an ultra ambitous professional from somewhere near Chester who wanted to be a world star, who he played for seemed secondsry to him (dont get me wrong he was very fucking good like)  Fowler as a proper scouse lad who saw playing for us as the priviledge it is. At the time it almost felt disloyal to warm to Owen
 
Appreciate this isnt exactly a fair position to take but thats how it felt to a teenage me

[Fromola]

The perception with Owen was he was always more bothered about England than Liverpool and that was his priority.

I wouldn't say fans didn't like him though, they just never really loved him. Fans loved him as a player but never really took to him as a lad and one of their own like they did Fowler or Gerrard. I can barely remember his name belted out in song and he never really got that signature tune that all Liverpool greats get.

to be honest though it can be difficult for non-Scouse English players to be really accepted or loved. Look at Jordan Henderson and what he's had to achieve to finally be widely revered. A lot of our legends are Scots, Welsh or foreign.

[Peabee]

He sorted tickets for my nephew’s first time at Anfield last season, so he can be sound. I mean, he is sound as a person. Re football, he was super ambitious and it was never really about the club. He still supports us though. He just doesn’t out emotion before his choices.

[Bjornar]

The perception with Owen was he was always more bothered about England than Liverpool and that was his priority.

Perception with absolutely no facts to back it up.

Owen's recollection in that Carragher interview about how Houllier acted around his serious injury is quite something, worlds apart from the professionalism we are seeing today with Klopp fortunately.

[jillcwhomever]

The perception with Owen was he was always more bothered about England than Liverpool and that was his priority.

I wouldn't say fans didn't like him though, they just never really loved him. Fans loved him as a player but never really took to him as a lad and one of their own like they did Fowler or Gerrard. I can barely remember his name belted out in song and he never really got that signature tune that all Liverpool greats get.

to be honest though it can be difficult for non-Scouse English players to be really accepted or loved. Look at Jordan Henderson and what he's had to achieve to finally be widely revered. A lot of our legends are Scots, Welsh or foreign.

I never really understood this perception about him caring more about England. Steven Gerrard was passionate about playing for England, as are Jordan, Joe and Trent now. Most talented players want to represent their country in the Euro's or the World Cup, whether people like it or not (and I'd rather they didn't), to a player it means something. It's part of what being a footballer is about. Maybe people found it hard to cope with the idea of Owen coming back as the big star after the World Cup, when he scored that goal in France. I do think that affected some people, it's like they decided on the back of that, he cares more for England than Liverpool. But I never had the impression (at the time,) that he thought less about Liverpool, but that did seem to affect some people. It was clear that he had ambition though, but then so did McManaman. Maybe its not such a surprise on the back of leaving Liverpool that their popularity suffered as a result of it.

[jillcwhomever]

I know we dont see eye to eye on this Jill, you are correct he was never taken to the hearts of most fans, maybe they had a sixth sense.
I dont care he went to United, he probably thought he has no reputation with Liverpool fans to uphold so he had nothing to lose.

He isnt a very nice person.  As a school kid he would constantly belittle teammates. His England career always came before the club that made him a muliti millionaire. He acted like a twat to a builder who was a friend of the family that resulted in suicide.  (That wasnt the sole cause obviously)

I wanted to take my time to answer this. My post was purely based on the podcast that I listened to, I'm less bothered about Michael the person, rather than the footballer, and his career at Liverpool. At the end of the day I appreciate, that you have a personal issue with him. That is entirely your business and I don't think whether we see eye to eye on Michael as a person is that important, in the grand scheme of things. I am very sad about the person you mentioned, but again I don't know enough about that tragic situation to judge. I will be bold and say I never took to Suarez the man.I know he was a fantastic player and everything, but there were always something about him that I found hard to like. But that's not going to stop the people who love him, defend him endlessly on every little incident whether it's right or not to

Anyway, lets leave it there. 

[Fromola]

Perception with absolutely no facts to back it up.

Owen's recollection in that Carragher interview about how Houllier acted around his serious injury is quite something, worlds apart from the professionalism we are seeing today with Klopp fortunately.

Houllier was a funny one at times. He was the right man at the right time in terms of bringing in discipline and order with Thompson after the spice boy 90s (Gerrard, Owen and Carra were big beneficiaries of that as they were just starting off their LFC careers).  Fowler was probably too far gone in terms of being used to the old culture and never hit it off with Houllier.

Houllier and Rafa were great for us (certainly initially if not towards the end) but they had their faults and their man-management didn't always go down well. Klopp has been near enough faultless.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The fact that Houllier was rushing him for a pre-season friendly speaks volumes. Imo, had he handled [Houllier] Owen better, owen would have had a longer career and we would have reaped the rewards for it.

[Bjornar]

Owen was a wasted world-class talent who should have had the difficult decisions taken out of his hands much more as a young man (by Evans as well as Houllier, to be fair) rather than being blamed for getting them wrong. Today we have a professional setup that would never have allowed a once in a generation talent to end up as a cautionary tale, which for me puts into perspective the shouts that the player (who was a model pro trying his hardest by all accounts), rather than how he was mismanaged, was to blame.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

to be honest though it can be difficult for non-Scouse English players to be really accepted or loved. Look at Jordan Henderson and what he's had to achieve to finally be widely revered. A lot of our legends are Scots, Welsh or foreign.

Bullshit,as you then went on to say (in a roundabout way),nationality has nothing to do with it.

[Fromola]

Bullshit,as you then went on to say (in a roundabout way),nationality has nothing to do with it.

It's just my own theory, but I think it goes back to the early 90s when the three foreigner rule came in and we had to replace a load of  non-English players with English players and ended up with the likes of Julian Dicks. Then you had the likes of Neil Ruddock, David James, Collymore and Phil Babb. Even Jamie Redknapp I don't think was ever really taken to. Then Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Joe Cole etc. Out the 2001  treble team Murphy, Owen and Heskey weren't loved like Sami, Paddy, Gary Mac,  Robbie, Carra or Stevie from the crowd.

 It takes a lot for English players to really be accepted, loved and revered as one of our own like Jordan Henderson and Jamies Milner eventually (or Lallana to an extent) since the 90s just from my own experience. A large part is too many signings haven't worked out, but possibility a bit is psychological for how we see the rest of the country which is born out by how every other set of fans act towards us.

[Raaphael]

It's just my own theory, but I think it goes back to the early 90s when the three foreigner rule came in and we had to replace a load of  non-English players with English players and ended up with the likes of Julian Dicks. Then you had the likes of Neil Ruddock, David James, Collymore and Phil Babb. Even Jamie Redknapp I don't think was ever really taken to. Then Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Joe Cole etc. Out the 2001  treble team Murphy, Owen and Heskey weren't loved like Sami, Paddy, Gary Mac,  Robbie, Carra or Stevie from the crowd.

 It takes a lot for English players to really be accepted, loved and revered as one of our own like Jordan Henderson and Jamies Milner eventually (or Lallana to an extent) since the 90s just from my own experience. A large part is too many signings haven't worked out, but possibility a bit is psychological for how we see the rest of the country which is born out by how every other set of fans act towards us.

How many of those are likable though? Always disliked Dicks, Ruddock, Murphy especially. Should never have worn the Liverpool shirt. Not a big fan of Cole either. Many of those were not serious athletes. At all. Like Ruddock. Quite liked Heskey. 

Milner,Henderson, Lallana deserves a whole other level of respect. True professionals who have always given everything for the shirt. And seems to be great guys as well.

[Crosby Nick]

I liked both Fowler and Owen but agree that Fowler had that something unquantifiable that just made him feel more like a supporter living the dream (I know he was a Blue!).

Fowler scored more in League seasons but despite that when both at their peaks it felt like we were more reliant on Owen than we were Fowler. Might be a bit harsh but the whole team was geared to getting the best out of Owen under Houllier.

Mad how we had two such brilliant strikers coming through the ranks one after the other though who both became the star player of the side.

[McSquared]

Never really had much time for owen. He was a good player for us, but to be honest could have been better... used to think at the time his shot conversion ratio was pretty poor. However the way he left to madrid and then later played for united erased any feelings with affinity with him. He always was and still is someone who is 100% in it for himself and doesn’t deserve any goodwill from lfc. His wages while he was here was enough for that... just an employee

[Tonyh8su]

He needs to stop whining. Seriously he is just so self unaware and doesn’t realise how privileged he is compared to virtually everyone else. He cries over ultra ultra first world problems. He will never be idolised because he never really endeared himself to supporters on a human level when he played for us, left us in a bad place and hurt the club status when he joined RM, never fought hard enough to rejoin us (seemed to have enough fight when it came to leaving us), and joining Man Utd was just fucking treachery.

Now the club is riding high and there is an opportunity to rewrite the past with a new generation of supporters that didn’t live through his Real Madrid, Newcastle and Man Utd times, he is trying to garner sympathy (being the self serving professional that he is).

We all acknowledge his achievements while playing for us and for that alone, he will always be afforded a welcome by most. He doesn’t bother me now and I’m completely neutral. But idolising by Liverpool supporters? No fucking chance. Just ain’t gonna happpen Mikey, so quit whining and get over it.

Fantastically put.

"Self unaware" is exactly what I was thinking the whole way through. He went on for ages leaning into a narrative that going to Newcastle was what made Liverpool fans hate him until Carragher himself interjected with "well....we'll get to the big one in a minute".

I put my extreme dislike for him aside and listened in, found it an excellent listen, extremely informative and eye opening, but equally frustrating and infuriating because of how self unaware he was. "Well what more should I have done, Jamie?!" Not join fucking Manchester United, Michael! And maybe don't be referring to them as "us" in your post playing punditry career.

The ship sailed when you left us in the lurch to go cut-price to Madrid, the ship crashed into an iceberg and sank to the depths of the Atlantic when you signed for Manchester United.

Well worth a listen though, brilliant podcast.

[Fromola]

How many of those are likable though? Always disliked Dicks, Ruddock, Murphy especially. Should never have worn the Liverpool shirt. Not a big fan of Cole either. Many of those were not serious athletes. At all. Like Ruddock. Quite liked Heskey. 

Milner,Henderson, Lallana deserves a whole other level of respect. True professionals who have always given everything for the shirt. And seems to be great guys as well.

Agree, but they've had to really earn it to win over the fans and get that love. Henderson especially.

[Fromola]

I liked both Fowler and Owen but agree that Fowler had that something unquantifiable that just made him feel more like a supporter living the dream (I know he was a Blue!).

Fowler scored more in League seasons but despite that when both at their peaks it felt like we were more reliant on Owen than we were Fowler. Might be a bit harsh but the whole team was geared to getting the best out of Owen under Houllier.

Mad how we had two such brilliant strikers coming through the ranks one after the other though who both became the star player of the side.

It was also right place, right time with Fowler. It was a bad time. We were coming to the end of the Souness era, we were losing the standing Kop, Man United were starting to dominate and we were way down the table with a mostly useless team. Rush was getting old. Then a local hero emerges and starts banging in 30 goals a season. Where would we have been in the mid 90s without Robbie?

When Owen made his debut at Wimbledon we were in a title race and Fowler was at his peak and adored.

[meady1981]

Listening to that Carragher podcast, every time he speaks I just can’t stop thinking I’m listening to a young Geoff Boycott.

[oojason]

'Married England legend Michael Owen begged reality TV star for nude pictures':-

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/married-england-legend-michael-owen-24356692