Topic: EL: Toulouse v Liverpool 3-2 Donnum 36 Dallinga 58 OG Cassares 73, Magri 75 Jota

[xbugawugax]

Shipping 3 goals to a middle of the table French side was a surprise if not  a shock. Truly highlights the class and organisation skills of irreplaceable VVD and Alisson.

yup pretty much. think we could have drawn or even won if we have most of our personnel fit and not shuffled too much. curtis and thiago in the middle would definitely have made a difference. quansah despite all the plaudits is still a kid. I do hope that we are looking to get in a proper first team CB soon. would definitely help with the workload of virgil who aint getting any younger and konate who suffers from a bit of niggly injuries.

that said. we are still top even though we just made it a bit harder for ourselves if we drop more points in the next few games.

[stockdam]

Klopp said it best, if you dont win your challenges and your battles, you can forget it. We lost too many battles and possession in the wrong moments and we suffered for it.

We have to do better against Brentford because the sight of a team who doesnt graft and is too concerned at getting themselves dirty will be a delight for them.

It kinda boils down to that. There are key challenges in a game that you have to make and win the ball.

Tsimikas lost a challenge with Barkley against Luton and they scored. If he had won the ball then obviously they wouldn't have scored (from that attack).
Yesterday Tsimikas lost the ball under very little pressure and they scored.

I noticed too many 50/50 challenges against Luton and yesterday that we lost. Once you give the ball away to any decent team then they are well capable of hurting us especially as we attack so high up the pitch. Losing tackles is not as important for low block teams as they will have 8 or 9 other players behind the ball. However if you lose the ball when you have 8 or 9 layers ahead of the ball then it is a completely different problem.

[CHOPPER]

Plop.

On and off the field, we were second best all night.

[kasperoff]

Klopp had it right. Outfought by a mediocre French side smacks of complacency. The squad players did themselves no favors yesterday. Really passive performance,

[Red-4-Ever]

They changed the rule after Firmino’s handball but it’s still vague. The goal is meant to be given unless the handball is immediately before the goal. To me that would be 3 to 4 passes max.

MacAllisters handball was a deflection off his chest and not straight at his arm. He didn’t gain any advantage as nobody was near him and it wasn’t a clear error by the referee. I guess that VAR just looked at the handball in isolation rather than how far it was before the goal.

Cheers, that doesn't make me feel any better about it though

[mattD]

Klopp had it right. Outfought by a mediocre French side smacks of complacency. The squad players did themselves no favors yesterday. Really passive performance,

Can't help but think complacency was at the heart of the Luton performance too.

No intensity and no fight, think they thought they could casually manage the game and score. Might be a steep learning curve for the new lads that no game is easy and for players like Tsimikas, that was the most disappointing considering how long he's been here. It is just utterly careless and if that's to continue, you have to give the lad Chambers a look at left back who sure as hell won't be complacent.

[newterp]

So now we have to go all the way to Matchday 6 most likely in order to win the group? Another unintended consequence of Yesterdays poor poor performance.

[RedForeverTT]

Can't help but think complacency was at the heart of the Luton performance too.

No intensity and no fight, think they thought they could casually manage the game and score. Might be a steep learning curve for the new lads that no game is easy and for players like Tsimikas, that was the most disappointing considering how long he's been here. It is just utterly careless and if that's to continue, you have to give the lad Chambers a look at left back who sure as hell won't be complacent.

Yup, very flat.

We thought it was a once-off against Luton which can happen to any team to have a drop in performance. Two in a row needed some introspection but I did not expect Klopp to be so harsh as he normally protects the team. Hope it not like that against Brentford.

[mattD]

Yup, very flat.

We thought it was a once-off against Luton which can happen to any team to have a drop in performance. Two in a row needed some introspection but I did not expect Klopp to be so harsh as he normally protects the team. Hope it not like that against Brentford.

The team is potentially a victim of their own recent successes against the likes of Nottingham Forest. They managed that one perfectly, playing calm, measured and seemingly without any inspiration before easily winning the game. Conscious that they may not be exerting a massive effort at times as Klopp has mentioned how long a season is and to be fresh in the latter parts.

Perhaps they think they could do the same kind of game management in the last two games. Problem is that approach will never work against spirited disruptive teams like Luton who will lap up that sort of attempt to play measured and managed games.

[lgvkarlos]

Plop.

On and off the field, we were second best all night.

Yep, very unusual for a Klopp team.

[Dougle]

Great game of football. Caught up with a mate and we're both going through a little bit of a rough time.

Toulouse played tremendously well and it was great to see some of our kids get the chance on a big stage.

The result in the end didn't go our way, but the fight and determination from our players was great to see. The fact they were gutted at the end showed just how much they cared too.

We're doing great in this competition and a little blip looks like it's going to drive them on and we've certainly got lessons to learn.

Great game of football. Deserved win to Tolouse. Thought the officials did really well in a difficult match and we're top of the group.

Had a great day out yesterday watching it. Happy days. Let's hope we bring what we learned yesterday into our next matches and I think it's looking pretty good.

What a lovely post.

[Cafe De Paris]

Seems par for the course for us to loose one of our European group games. If you look back at some of the bad away results we have had and I’m thinking Red Star, Napoli, they didn’t interfere with us winning or getting to the final of the competition.
The key is how we react on Sunday.

[kaesarsosei]

Not bothered by missing out on the "bigger picture" of securing top spot with 2 games to spare - IMO we would be fielding the same sort of XI in both these remaining games anyway.

[disgraced cake]

Not bothered by missing out on the "bigger picture" of securing top spot with 2 games to spare - IMO we would be fielding the same sort of XI in both these remaining games anyway.

There's probably a limit to what he can field in this competition anyway. It's not like the cup games a few years back where it was a side full of actual children, we have a squad and have to stick to that. Last night the bench was five 'star' players and five youngsters, which shows what we're working with. He wouldn't put a team full of kids out in a dead rubber match anyway, because there's a chance it could get messy against European level teams.

[the_red_pill]

Don't think it's as easy as "we lost our challenges..", "we weren't arsed..", etc...

Toulouse clearly changed something or decided to play a certain way, or decided to concentrate on key areas... and we just did not adapt or we could not figure out what they did.

Not every game is one where we decided we're not arsed. We can be out-tacticed ya know... We can be outplayed, out-thought and whatever. We're not invincible.


You can't just play well enough ... and then everybody and their mom decides that- "Yeah-no, fuck it! Let's all cruise until the very end of the game- including extra time!"


No.. a "not-arsed" explanation simply is not good enough. Toulouse did something and we could not deal with it. Well done, ya twats!
Now, it's time we analyse why we lost, HONESTLY, so's we can be ready the next time they, or someone else, decides to pull the same stunt, cause the shit that's offered as an explanation here on this forum.. just don't cut it.

"Not arsed", my fuck.. /smh/
But why am I even annoyed and surprised? We love dumping on our boys when its time to support them!

[killer-heels]

Don't think it's as easy as "we lost our challenges..", "we weren't arsed..", etc...

Toulouse clearly changed something or decided to play a certain way, or decided to concentrate on key areas... and we just did not adapt or we could not figure out what they did.

Not every game is one where we decided we're not arsed. We can be out-tacticed ya know... We can be outplayed, out-thought and whatever. We're not invincible.


You can't just play well enough ... and then everybody and their mom decides that- "Yeah-no, fuck it! Let's all cruise until the very end of the game- including extra time!"


No.. a "not-arsed" explanation simply is not good enough. Toulouse did something and we could not deal with it. Well done, ya twats!
Now, it's time we analyse why we lost, HONESTLY, so's we can be ready the next time they, or someone else, decides to pull the same stunt, cause the shit that's offered as an explanation here on this forum.. just don't cut it.

"Not arsed", my fuck.. /smh/
But why am I even annoyed and surprised? We love dumping on our boys when its time to support them!

Why didnt we win our challenges and duels though? Its something Klopp pinned the blame on.

[the_red_pill]

Why didnt we win our challenges and duels though? Its something Klopp pinned the blame on.

Because we "were not arsed"? Honestly mate.. you skimread over here and pretty soon your conclusion is:
We ALL decided mid-game and some before, that "f*ck Klopp. f* this sh*, and I wanna relax!" All of us- the whole team. Tsimikas was just "inept".

That's the answer we're getting on this board. Ridiculous as it sounds.
There is no real analysis or attempt to want to look at it.

Klopp did say that we didn't win our duels, but it's not as easy as "we weren't arsed". There is a reason behind that- that's only the symptom.

[killer-heels]

Because we "were not arsed"? Honestly mate.. you skimread over here and pretty soon your conclusion is:
We ALL decided mid-game that "f*ck Klopp. f* this sh* and I wanna relax." All of us- the whole team. Tsimikas was just "inept".

That's the answer we're getting on this board. Ridiculous as it sounds.
There is no real analysis or attempt to want to look at it.

Klopp did say that we didn't win our duels, but it's not as easy as "we weren't arsed". There is a reason behind that- that's only the symptom.

Clearly we were arsed, but there was a clear lack of intensity and its hard to know whether thats because they were too relaxed, not confident or what. But we need to do better and we need to to make sure we are up for it on Sunday.

[the_red_pill]

Clearly we were arsed, but there was a clear lack of intensity and its hard to know whether thats because they were too relaxed, not confident or what. But we need to do better and we need to to make sure we are up for it on Sunday.

Yep, there was a lack of intensity, but I agree- I ascribe it to something out of our control. I'm not sre if it was due to travel, or a hangover from training, but I reject the notion that it's because we weren't arsed.

That is a juvenile and imbecilic suggestion.

[StL-Dono]

Yep, there was a lack of intensity, but I agree- I ascribe it to something out of our control. I'm not sre if it was due to travel, or a hangover from training, but I reject the notion that it's because we weren't arsed.

That is a juvenile and imbecilic suggestion.

Aren't these the exact same thing?  Fail to see how they're different beyond semantics.

[the_red_pill]

Aren't these the exact same thing?  Fail to see how they're different beyond semantics.

But that's the level of discernment I've seen about this the past 2 days? That's not particularly deep, is it?
It's nonchalance and not being interested in any reason why we might've seen our team perform like that. It's not the team that is "not arsed"- we're not arsed in judging them fairly.

The difference between those two, is that one explicitly means there was a CONSCIOUS DECISION TO MAKE NO REAL EFFORT- a cause. The other just means what it means- a lack of intensity- regardless of effort. It's just a symptom- not a cause.

There can be a lack of intensity for a variety of reasons- out of YOUR CONTROL. You could be tired and so you just cannot perform at a certain level, no matter how much you TRY.
You may suffer from jetlag, which prevents you from performing. We may be coming to the end of our run, which incurred a decent amount of effort from us, it could be the weather, or it could be brought on by training, preparation, lack of focus(another symptom), or diet, or whatever..
Any of this- but not for a lack of trying. You're trying but it just doesn't work.

But there is a difference- one is a decision/cause- the other is a consequence/symptom.

It's like when you've run/cycled a distance and getting tired... you're losing pace, and no matter how much you try, you just cannot make your legs go faster, you just cannot cycle faster. That would be a lack of intensity. That is certainly not because you're "not being arsed".

[DelTrotter]

  Bit weird getting this worked up over "not arsed"

[Kennys from heaven]

Played shite, but we showed character to get back into it and equalise... only to be robbed again by a diabolical decision that again means VAR overshadows a game of football.

Plus point - no two ways about it, that was complacency, not player ability and despite that, see the above sentence for the outcome.

Had plenty of chances to wrap it up as well. Gomez was unlucky as hell for the header btw. That goes in, game over. Convinced they will drop points against LASK, as Toulouse are that up and down sort of club and we'll end up winning the group against USG.

That was a much changed team against a huff-and-puff side which for them was their cup final. Nothing more, nothing less. To dwell on it is pointless. Losing an eminently winnable game is always hugely frustrating, especially in those circumstances. Jarrell's goal stands, we'd not be happy about losing two points still, but we'd have been lauding the side for showing the cojones to come back when we were seemingly out of it. Abysmal officiating and yet another failure of the system that is supposed to make football better took that away from us which at the end of the day was not down to us.

Not a superfan response, just pragmatic. Learn from the mistakes, bin VAR the FUCK OFF and move on. 

[Fromola]

Clearly we were arsed, but there was a clear lack of intensity and its hard to know whether thats because they were too relaxed, not confident or what. But we need to do better and we need to to make sure we are up for it on Sunday.

The kinder terminology is we just weren't up for it but it amounts to the same thing. The first half was disjoined but it was a disjointed team, 0-0 is fine if Tsimikas doesn't fuck about.

But we get in at half time 1-0 down needing a reaction, ring the changes bringing the big guns on and then come out completely undercooked for the second half.

You can afford a defeat in the group stages (we lost at Red Star the year we won the CL and other group games that year). But we should have got the group won first and then been half arsed in the last games.

[Eeyore]

Clearly we were arsed, but there was a clear lack of intensity and its hard to know whether thats because they were too relaxed, not confident or what. But we need to do better and we need to to make sure we are up for it on Sunday.

We play with real intensity when we have a settled team and players are in sync with each other. When you make wholesale or when you are trying to bed players in then it is hard to play with intensity. That is because it only takes a moment's hesitation or indecision and you aren't as close to your opponent as you should be.

[CHOPPER]

Yep, very unusual for a Klopp team.

Toulouse took this game way more serious than we did - their team were up for it, their staff were up for and their fans were up for it and we never really got to grips with their will and want to win.

And on the fans - at our place they we’re probably one of the best I’ve seen and last night, their ground was bouncing and after the game, you could tell what it meant to them with all the car horns going off throughout the night.

We were deservedly beaten and what we have to take from this game, like Luton - is if we don’t show up and compete and match the opposition for competitiveness and tempo, then we won’t be able to play our game and as you allude to, surprising for a Klopp team.

[Robinred]

Toulouse took this game way more serious than we did - their team were up for it, their staff were up for and their fans were up for it and we never really got to grips with their will and want to win.

And on the fans - at our place they we’re probably one of the best I’ve seen and last night, their ground was bouncing and after the game, you could tell what it meant to them with all the car horns going off throughout the night.

We were deservedly beaten and what we have to take from this game, like Luton - is if we don’t show up and compete and match the opposition for competitiveness and tempo, then we won’t be able to play our game and as you allude to, surprising for a Klopp team.

Amen.

[lgvkarlos]

Toulouse took this game way more serious than we did - their team were up for it, their staff were up for and their fans were up for it and we never really got to grips with their will and want to win.

And on the fans - at our place they we’re probably one of the best I’ve seen and last night, their ground was bouncing and after the game, you could tell what it meant to them with all the car horns going off throughout the night.

We were deservedly beaten and what we have to take from this game, like Luton - is if we don’t show up and compete and match the opposition for competitiveness and tempo, then we won’t be able to play our game and as you allude to, surprising for a Klopp team.

Absolutely, and as you say the Toulouse fans were incredible.
Think a few of the newer players will see a different side to Jurgen, these players have the talent but need the same commitment no matter the opposition.

[Mighty_Red]

Been a poor week for us, two bad performances have delivered 1 pt when we would've expected 4 at a minimum. We have the added issue that now we have to win both matches to guarantee 1st place, pressure we could've done without.

Most disappointed with the 2nd half, as it was only really 1 bad mistake coupled with an unlucky deflection that caused us to be behind in the 1st. We gave up so many chances in the 2nd half senior players on the pitch.

Still were robbed of an equaliser, somehow the handball rule for goals has changed once again, just in time to fuck us over again.

Hopefully Jurgen's anger will ensure we refocus for Sunday as that is actually our toughest match this week.

[andy07]

Cocky, arrogant and complacent all rolled in to one.  The players who took the field yesterday need to have a really good think as to whether they are up to the task of playing for Liverpool.  Stinking attitude and something that can’t be repeated.

[Historical Fool]

Why didnt we win our challenges and duels though? Its something Klopp pinned the blame on.

Things were loose …

[spider-neil]

Plop.

On and off the field, we were second best all night.

How were we plop off the field?

[CHOPPER]

How were we plop off the field?

Did you hear our end even once? The reaction to the first summed us up off and on the field -  half hearted and half arsed.

[PEG2K]

I rewatched the game and noticed something: the number of times their players (plural) nutmegged ours is mind boggling. You'd think it was Messi playing for them in midfield. And their second goal, Lewandowski would be proud of that touch and finish. We were bad but they were really playing out of their mind after the opener.

[jogi]

It’s all well good saying they are not a top team but football is played on the pitch not and paper. We need to go into every much expecting fight especially away from home. Being outfought and outworked is unacceptable and it’s happened two games in a row against poor sides.

Thats what I mean. When the team play with full concentration you win. But I do not understand why this happen so often?

[jogi]

Maybe all the "too good for this competition" comments rubbed off on the players?

May thats a problem. Even if you don't want, but when everybody around you talk about easy win than you are not at 100%.