Author Topic: Liverpool v Everton. Premier League, Saturday the 21st October. Match Preview.  (Read 17593 times)

Online newterp

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Is Gakpo black ?

 :o

But yes!*


*I'm bored. Stupid break.  ;D


Offline alonsoisared

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Did a write up on the derby a few years ago, trying to stay as neutral as possible of course. As a non-scouser who loves the city of Liverpool I always enjoyed the idea of there being a special kinship between the two clubs. It's a shame things have got nastier in the last few years.

https://intotheterraces.wordpress.com/2019/03/04/merseyside-a-friendly-derby-turned-toxic/

Spoiler
When you hear about the fiercest derby matches and biggest rivalries in Britain, the Merseyside Derby is scarcely mentioned. Billed as the “friendly derby” and with Sky cameras often picking out shirts of the away team in the home ends, in recent years this supposed spirit of goodwill and loving thy neighbour has transformed into something very different.

As is the case with supporters of many clubs throughout Britain, fans of these two giants of English football can hark back to an era where scousers would watch Everton at home one week and Liverpool at home the next. Although this practise didn’t continue commonly once the ‘70s and ‘80s kicked in, the rivalry did remain good natured for much longer.

When the teams dominated during the eighties, they faced each other in two Wembley Cup Finals and faced off twice in the Charity Shield. The first of these cup finals in 1984 lead to panic in the press and among the police at the prospect of trouble. Instead, a hundred thousand scousers descended on the capital together, in cars sporting a mixture of blue and red scarves, and on the same supporter’s coaches. The day passed without a hint of trouble, Wembley reverberated to the sound of fans singing “Merseyside, Merseyside, Merseyside” and “are you watching Manchester?” and Liverpudlians presented to the world a solidarity rarely seen on these shores at the time.


There are many theories as to why the fixture took on this sense of comradeship. They were both extremely successful throughout the 1980s, both winning titles in turn, and other than Liverpool’s European Cups there was no need for jealousy on either side.

Although the very early days of the clubs did have a religious element, with Everton having links to the Catholic community and Liverpool to the Protestants, by the ‘80s this was a complete non-issue and there were no obvious differences between the fan bases of each team. They were brothers, sisters, neighbours, all fiercely proud of their home town. A home town that was under siege from Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative government, whom it was later revealed, confirming what scousers felt at the time, was planning a “managed decline” of the traditionally left-wing, Labour supporting city. This sense of solidarity in the face of being ostracised by their country is one of the most compelling reasons for the birth of the friendly derby.

1989 and the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster is perhaps the most iconic example of the comradeship between Everton and Liverpool. It is said that there was nobody in Liverpool, red or blue, who didn’t know somebody affected by the tragedy, and footballing rivalry was put to the backburner as a City mourned its loss together. Scarves of both teams were intertwined and formed a trail from Goodison, through Stanley Park and ending at Anfield. In the FA Cup final at Wembley five weeks later, Liverpool thanked their neighbours for not allowing them to Walk Alone.


A plaque unveiled by Everton paying their respects to those lost at Hillsborough in 1989.
As football changed dramatically in the aftermath of Hillsborough, so did the derby. As the Taylor report necessitated all top-flight clubs to introduce all-seater stadia, capacities diminished and so did away allocations. Gone were the days of a sea of red in the Gladys Street End at Goodison, or a sea of blue on Liverpool’s Kop. In 2015, Merseyside police agreed for the fixture to kick off at 17:30 rather than at midday, on the condition that Everton cracked down on allowing away fans into the home end. Segregation is now the norm on these match days and a physical barrier is drawn between the home fans and the hardcore one or two thousand visiting supporters.

The clubs moved in different directions, too. With the game becoming safer and the Premier League becoming a hot new product for investors, Liverpool began to attract a match-day following from all over the world. Anfield became a tourist attraction and a global institution, bringing huge wealth to the club and ensuring their place at the top table of English football, while Everton struggled to move with the times and fell behind the emerging giants. The clubs were no longer on an even footing, and resentment grew particularly on the blue side.

There is an irony that as the game became safer everywhere else, this derby has become increasingly intense. In a time where Liverpool and Everton supporters were left to police themselves, they did so and mingled without trouble. Yes, they both desperately wanted to win, but a line was never crossed. It is only since they were removed from each other’s grasps for their supposed own safety that the tribal, aggressive side of the game has crept in.

After Liverpool’s part in the Heysel disaster in 1985, English clubs were banned from competing in Europe. This is often cited as a big reason for the change of atmosphere in the derby. Arguably Everton’s greatest ever team was denied the opportunity to add the European Cup to their collection. While this didn’t boil over into major resentment at the time, it is now referenced regularly, with “Murderers” becoming a regular chant from sections of Everton fans on a derby day. Liverpool fans controversially unveiled a banner on the Kop before a derby match celebrating the 1986 European Cup success of Steaua Bucharest; the year Everton felt they would have won it, had it not been for the European ban.


The infamous Steaua Bucharest banner on the Kop End.
There is still a bond of solidarity between the clubs that rears its head. The Everton Supporter’s Trust and Liverpool’s Spirit of Shankly groups came together to form Fans Supporting Foodbanks. With the tagline, “Hunger Doesn’t Wear Club Colours,” there are collections held home and away for food banks across the country. While opposing fans sing “sign on” and “feed the scousers”, it’s the Liverpudlian’s on both sides who are raising money and donating food to local foodbanks.

There is a new generation of support at both clubs who weren’t alive when this good spirit was evident on the terraces as well as off the pitch. Kids in blue that weren’t alive in 1985 are making wall pushing gestures and singing “murderers” at kids in red who also weren’t alive in 1985. Likewise there are youngsters in red feigning pride in those same events, singing “1-0 to the Murderers” and unveiling the Steaua Bucharest banner at recent derbies, all to get a rise out of their neighbours.

It goes without saying that not everyone wants it this way. Many Everton fans refuse to sing the offensive chants and many Liverpool fans would still say they’d rather go head to head with Everton for major honours than the Manchester or London clubs. Ironically, it is those Manchester clubs who seem to be building a shared bond this season as they hope to avoid a Liverpool title win.

Surely it is time for an effort to be made on both sides to remember what made this derby a special one, before it continues its toxic slide. It should be remembered, and taught to the new generation of supporter, that although much has changed, these two historic football clubs still have far more that unite them than divide them.
[close]

I put it in spoiler tags because it is quite long.

Offline Haggis36

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I've obviously seen nothing of them this season (who would voluntarily do that) but they're a bit of a statistical anomaly - 6th best in the league in terms of xG difference, only narrowly behind us in fifth. They've actually conceded fewer xG than we have, and on the balance of the chances they create and the chances they concede, they should probably be about 10 points better off. Seems a lack of a clinical striker has cost them so far this season perhaps?

I'd love for us to go with Gravenberch, Endo and Dom in the midfield as Everton are powerful and physical in there and I worry Elliott and a tired Mac Allister could be bullied a bit. Front 3 probably picks itself if Darwin isn't fit to start, and hopefully Konate comes back in.

On it from the start please, no stupid mistakes or lapses in concentration. We're not going to have much on the bench, so if we could turn up for the first half for a change that'd be great!

Offline storkfoot

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Did a write up on the derby a few years ago, trying to stay as neutral as possible of course. As a non-scouser who loves the city of Liverpool I always enjoyed the idea of there being a special kinship between the two clubs. It's a shame things have got nastier in the last few years.

https://intotheterraces.wordpress.com/2019/03/04/merseyside-a-friendly-derby-turned-toxic/

Spoiler
When you hear about the fiercest derby matches and biggest rivalries in Britain, the Merseyside Derby is scarcely mentioned. Billed as the “friendly derby” and with Sky cameras often picking out shirts of the away team in the home ends, in recent years this supposed spirit of goodwill and loving thy neighbour has transformed into something very different.

As is the case with supporters of many clubs throughout Britain, fans of these two giants of English football can hark back to an era where scousers would watch Everton at home one week and Liverpool at home the next. Although this practise didn’t continue commonly once the ‘70s and ‘80s kicked in, the rivalry did remain good natured for much longer.

When the teams dominated during the eighties, they faced each other in two Wembley Cup Finals and faced off twice in the Charity Shield. The first of these cup finals in 1984 lead to panic in the press and among the police at the prospect of trouble. Instead, a hundred thousand scousers descended on the capital together, in cars sporting a mixture of blue and red scarves, and on the same supporter’s coaches. The day passed without a hint of trouble, Wembley reverberated to the sound of fans singing “Merseyside, Merseyside, Merseyside” and “are you watching Manchester?” and Liverpudlians presented to the world a solidarity rarely seen on these shores at the time.


There are many theories as to why the fixture took on this sense of comradeship. They were both extremely successful throughout the 1980s, both winning titles in turn, and other than Liverpool’s European Cups there was no need for jealousy on either side.

Although the very early days of the clubs did have a religious element, with Everton having links to the Catholic community and Liverpool to the Protestants, by the ‘80s this was a complete non-issue and there were no obvious differences between the fan bases of each team. They were brothers, sisters, neighbours, all fiercely proud of their home town. A home town that was under siege from Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative government, whom it was later revealed, confirming what scousers felt at the time, was planning a “managed decline” of the traditionally left-wing, Labour supporting city. This sense of solidarity in the face of being ostracised by their country is one of the most compelling reasons for the birth of the friendly derby.

1989 and the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster is perhaps the most iconic example of the comradeship between Everton and Liverpool. It is said that there was nobody in Liverpool, red or blue, who didn’t know somebody affected by the tragedy, and footballing rivalry was put to the backburner as a City mourned its loss together. Scarves of both teams were intertwined and formed a trail from Goodison, through Stanley Park and ending at Anfield. In the FA Cup final at Wembley five weeks later, Liverpool thanked their neighbours for not allowing them to Walk Alone.


A plaque unveiled by Everton paying their respects to those lost at Hillsborough in 1989.
As football changed dramatically in the aftermath of Hillsborough, so did the derby. As the Taylor report necessitated all top-flight clubs to introduce all-seater stadia, capacities diminished and so did away allocations. Gone were the days of a sea of red in the Gladys Street End at Goodison, or a sea of blue on Liverpool’s Kop. In 2015, Merseyside police agreed for the fixture to kick off at 17:30 rather than at midday, on the condition that Everton cracked down on allowing away fans into the home end. Segregation is now the norm on these match days and a physical barrier is drawn between the home fans and the hardcore one or two thousand visiting supporters.

The clubs moved in different directions, too. With the game becoming safer and the Premier League becoming a hot new product for investors, Liverpool began to attract a match-day following from all over the world. Anfield became a tourist attraction and a global institution, bringing huge wealth to the club and ensuring their place at the top table of English football, while Everton struggled to move with the times and fell behind the emerging giants. The clubs were no longer on an even footing, and resentment grew particularly on the blue side.

There is an irony that as the game became safer everywhere else, this derby has become increasingly intense. In a time where Liverpool and Everton supporters were left to police themselves, they did so and mingled without trouble. Yes, they both desperately wanted to win, but a line was never crossed. It is only since they were removed from each other’s grasps for their supposed own safety that the tribal, aggressive side of the game has crept in.

After Liverpool’s part in the Heysel disaster in 1985, English clubs were banned from competing in Europe. This is often cited as a big reason for the change of atmosphere in the derby. Arguably Everton’s greatest ever team was denied the opportunity to add the European Cup to their collection. While this didn’t boil over into major resentment at the time, it is now referenced regularly, with “Murderers” becoming a regular chant from sections of Everton fans on a derby day. Liverpool fans controversially unveiled a banner on the Kop before a derby match celebrating the 1986 European Cup success of Steaua Bucharest; the year Everton felt they would have won it, had it not been for the European ban.


The infamous Steaua Bucharest banner on the Kop End.
There is still a bond of solidarity between the clubs that rears its head. The Everton Supporter’s Trust and Liverpool’s Spirit of Shankly groups came together to form Fans Supporting Foodbanks. With the tagline, “Hunger Doesn’t Wear Club Colours,” there are collections held home and away for food banks across the country. While opposing fans sing “sign on” and “feed the scousers”, it’s the Liverpudlian’s on both sides who are raising money and donating food to local foodbanks.

There is a new generation of support at both clubs who weren’t alive when this good spirit was evident on the terraces as well as off the pitch. Kids in blue that weren’t alive in 1985 are making wall pushing gestures and singing “murderers” at kids in red who also weren’t alive in 1985. Likewise there are youngsters in red feigning pride in those same events, singing “1-0 to the Murderers” and unveiling the Steaua Bucharest banner at recent derbies, all to get a rise out of their neighbours.

It goes without saying that not everyone wants it this way. Many Everton fans refuse to sing the offensive chants and many Liverpool fans would still say they’d rather go head to head with Everton for major honours than the Manchester or London clubs. Ironically, it is those Manchester clubs who seem to be building a shared bond this season as they hope to avoid a Liverpool title win.

Surely it is time for an effort to be made on both sides to remember what made this derby a special one, before it continues its toxic slide. It should be remembered, and taught to the new generation of supporter, that although much has changed, these two historic football clubs still have far more that unite them than divide them.
[close]

I put it in spoiler tags because it is quite long.

I have lived through all that. The late ‘70s and ‘80s were good times and, whilst there were some major punch ups in town after the derbies, there was a unity between the supports of both clubs which the rest of the country could not understand.

In my experience, the toxic side has come almost exclusively from them. I sit close enough to the away end to both hear their songs and see their actions. Their away support has been vile for a long, long time now. I hope they go down and they never come to Anfield again in my life time.


Offline kavah

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Not looking forward to it for some reason, we should be massive favourites like


Offline Solomon Grundy

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Not looking forward to it for some reason, we should be massive favourites like



It's because its a 12.30 p.m. kick-off. We need a big performance from the lads on Saturday.

Offline shank94

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If that T-rex fck starts diving around from minute 1, I am going to lose it.  :no
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Used to be that I would cancel anything and everything else to watch the derby. I hate what the game has become so much I wouldn’t cancel anything to watch it now.  Got a few things to do so doubt I’ll be watching it. Hopefully this is the last one at Anfield for a very long time.

Offline Zlen

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My main hope for this game is that we get out of it without long term injuries. Otherwise, I’m fully expecting more biased refereeing, conceding an early goal and struggling because of the kick off time and internationals fatigue. So yeah, not looking forward to it to be honest.

Offline No666

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Yeah, the concern about injuries and incompetent refereeing has taken any enjoyment out of this fixture for me.

Offline Cafe De Paris

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Please don’t concede early. Don’t concede first. Don’t do anything stupid.
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No Richarlison makes them just a little less horrible
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Offline So… Howard Philips

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Please don’t concede early. Don’t concede first. Don’t do anything stupid.

You’ve just summed up the downside to our pretty decent start to the season. ;D

Offline lionel_messias

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Get a 1-0 even if it comes off someone's arse.

Plus no injuries.
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Please don’t concede early. Don’t concede first. Don’t do anything stupid.

Score first and I'd be shocked if we don't go on to win, Everton fold so easily and often concede multiple goals quickly. We're conceding first in games like it's the middle of 2022 all over again, hopefully can end that run against some shit teams coming up
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Feels like we've lost so much momentum after the Spurs and Brighton games. We always concede first and I think doing that against Dyche's Everton at Anfield would be very worrying, knowing how they play. That's before we even get into the refereeing.

All things considered, our league position is good. After our last two results, there is just no room for anything other than a win here.

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Feels like we've lost so much momentum after the Spurs and Brighton games. We always concede first and I think doing that against Dyche's Everton at Anfield would be very worrying, knowing how they play. That's before we even get into the refereeing.

All things considered, our league position is good. After our last two results, there is just no room for anything other than a win here.

Dyche's record against us is crap though. People were bricking it earlier this year when they'd beat Arsenal and when we played them the week after they barely left their half. I'm always amazed how low confidence seems to be going into the derby, it should be routine.
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Get a 1-0 even if it comes off someone's arse.

Plus no injuries.

This,I'm expecting a borefest but I'm fine with that as long as we win.

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Trent Doherty and McConnell in training pics.  One of them might make the bench i suspect

I think from the clip on Twitter that scanlon may also have been there plus some brown haired lad I can’t place
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 01:28:42 pm by phil236849 »

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If that T-rex fck starts diving around from minute 1, I am going to lose it.  :no

Better prepare yourself then. Shithousing to a draw will be their only tactic. Score first is fucking essential

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Looks like most first teamers have trained bar the obvious, Robertson, Thiago, Bajcetic etc.

Surely the South Americans are all ready to go with a couple of days training here? Might not all start but should be in the 18 at least. I'd start Nunez and Diaz for sure.
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Gakpo being back is a big boost.
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Gakpo being back is a big boost.

Didn’t see him in pics but that’s ace news.
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Didn’t see him in pics but that’s ace news.

He's in some training pics.
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Surely the South Americans are all ready to go with a couple of days training here? Might not all start but should be in the 18 at least. I'd start Nunez and Diaz for sure.

20 these days

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Didn’t realise how much we missed Gakpo last time out. Like Bobby did he gives us something different.
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All the south Americans are back training a day earlier than the last international break. All should be in contention. Nunez had bad cramp after his match so may be one for the bench

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Thanks for the OP Terry

3 points no injuries and I’ll be happy. Given the KO time and straight after the break, anything more is a bonus.
Great that Gakpo seems to be back, especially with Diaz & Darwin having to travel so far and have less time to recover than most.

Interesting to see what the defence is, Matip and Gomez not having played may mean at least one is likely to start.

Big month ahead before the next break, really hopeful we can start with a win and build on it
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Nunez starting would be good but trust Klopp to manage it well

Was Matip in training ?
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Cody Gakpo back in full training.


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Offline TheMan

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Hopefully Thiago is back for this one, I still hold out hope for him this season

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Not the most looked forward to game, but seeing our irresistible Reds now at last is only 4 or 5 meals away.
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Cody Gakpo back in full training.

Amazing, not used to having players whose injuries look terrible return in next to no time, usually it's the other way round.
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If we win our next 5 then we are back in the discussion for titles. The idea is to stay in that discussion for as long as possible. We need to be ruthless though and stop giving up cheap goals, we need to hope for better luck with officials (which would amount to not being completely shafted). 15 points from 15 please - it would be amazing to win five comfortably but we will be challenged in some of these games and need to have the answers. We can't fall away this early and we can't start dropping points to mediocre teams/grafters. We need to impose ourselves on games and punish teams...if you offered me 13 from the next 15 points I probably wouldn't take it. We can't afford to drop more points after being robbed in recent games, it's time to go on a run and stay in the discussion until our next big test.

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Guesses on what song Virg is playing Air guitar to?

One of the girls with the guitar behind Robert Palmer in the Addicted To Love video

His hair is already there. Little black dress and bit of lippy. Ev won't know what hit them.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 06:52:25 pm by Jean Girard »
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Nunez as a super sub will be good. He'll absolutely terrorise that lot if he comes on around the 60th minute.
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