Author Topic: PL: Crystal Palace 1 v 3 Liverpool VVD 8’ Ox 32’ Edouard 54’ Fabinho 89’  (Read 28258 times)

Offline Rhi

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Honestly, we're the only club in the world where that foul being given as a pen is in any way controversial, let alone the practically front page news it seems to be. Rent free.
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Do these dickheads remember the Jota one at Spurs ?
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Offline keyop

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The high line is seen as a high-risk tactic, because it does risk some very open chances behind the line. However, playing a low line comes with other risks, because you let the opposition move far up. Much more crosses, distance shots, risks for deflections, corners etc. I don't think we would concede less goals with a low line, at least not against teams like CP. And we would definitely score fewer, because a high press leads to many more chances when we can win the ball high up.
It's both high-risk and high-reward.

What makes Klopp such a great manager is that he is so good at maximising the high-reward aspects such as elite pressing, quick strikers, and overlapping fullbacks. But he is also very good at minimising the high-risk aspects such as having quick defenders, an elite DM to break up counters, hard working midfielders to cover the full backs, and strikers that are often our first line of defence in transition.

What appears to some as a risky strategy (usually when we concede), is in fact a percentage game where Klopp has spent years perfecting the system that means goals where we are cut apart in midfield/defence are actually quite rare.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 11:48:24 am by keyop »
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Offline stockdam

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The high line is seen as a high-risk tactic, because it does risk some very open chances behind the line. However, playing a low line comes with other risks, because you let the opposition move far up. Much more crosses, distance shots, risks for deflections, corners etc. I don't think we would concede less goals with a low line, at least not against teams like CP. And we would definitely score fewer, because a high press leads to many more chances when we can win the ball high up.

The one problem I see is when our attackers and midfield get tired (usually around 60 min), we stop pressing effectively, and then the high line is much dangerous. I feel like we should be able to adapt a bit better there, and adjust the way we play.

The big change after 30 min was CP playing better though, not Liverpool playing worse. They're not a terrible team, but they played terribly in the beginning.

I think we were seeing some tiredness yesterday. Suddenly we weren't winning the 2nd ball and were not closing down. If you give any team time on the ball who have fast forwards then they will play balls over the top or through your defensive line. We started to stand off a bit and to sit deeper. That gave the Palace defenders and midfielders more time and space. Palace also upped their game and had more energy than us in the 2nd half. Their passing become much better and they played very well.

However their passing let them down when TAA intercepted a long pass and then played a ridiculously brilliant ball to Jota for the third.

My concern has been our midfield and yesterday they looked tired in the 2nd half. Maybe part of this "problem" is Fabinho.........bear with me. He tends to play just in front of our defence which leaves two midfield players to press the opposition when they have the ball. That will naturally tire out these two players as they have a lot of space to cover. They have to press and to support the front three plus get back to defend. This is not a problem of tactics but I think we need to expect to see both "attacking" midfielders get replaced around the 60 minute mark.

Yesterday we didn't have many options from the bench. Milner, Minamino and Gordon were the replacements for our midfield and none of these are really great when the other team are pushing us back. Our other two options would be Thiago and Keita and hopefully we see them soon. Both are obviously good players and we are missing them in midfield.

Our starting midfielder is Fabinho. He must start when fit. We tend to dominate the first half of most games so pick two from Thiago, Keita and Jones. When these two begin to tire then I'd bring on Henderson and Ox.

Against weaker teams then Milner and Morton are fine but not against a strong physical team.

Ideally I'd like to see us bring in one midfield player who can hunt down the ball and press the opposition. We have too many midfield players who are good when we are on top and we are pressing high up the pitch but as soon as we face a team that is pushing us back then we tend to struggle in midfield. A younger Milner would be perfect.

However we are doing very well with the players we have. Our defence is very good and we have good cover on the bench. Our attack is also good and our cover is pretty good. Our midfield is good when we are on the front foot but I'd like to see a bit more physicality to come off the bench.
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Offline MonsLibpool

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Honestly, we're the only club in the world where that foul being given as a pen is in any way controversial, let alone the practically front page news it seems to be. Rent free.
Was it a foul? Yes.

Was it in the penalty area? Yes.

Case closed.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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It looked to me that Klopp had figured we'd be tired second half so we went all out to win the game in the first 45-minutes.

Second half the forwards and midfield dropped off a little and we hardly seemed to press but we continued with the high-line.

It was looking reminiscent of Villas-Boas during his time at Chelsea. 
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Offline KillieRed

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Honestly, we're the only club in the world where that foul being given as a pen is in any way controversial, let alone the practically front page news it seems to be. Rent free.

Amazed (not really) that the media & other fans are going on about a VAR decision that actually went the way of Liverpool, a penalty that wasn’t even the winning goal. Where’s the outrage for Friend’s worst decision of the day: not giving Gallagher a second yellow for his outrageous dive? He was so blind/influenced by the home support that he actually gave Palace a foul.
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Offline Fitzy.

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We need way more control in midfield in games where we take the lead. No one seemed to be able to keep the ball for long. Badly missing Thiago or Keita but Gini was so good at that sort of stuff. We need to be in for a midfielder as a priority.
Possibly...but...Liverpool have navigated their way to January with 2 losses in comps, still in everything going, outscoring everybody, still concede fewer than nearly everyone and have been hit by covid, Afcon and injuries.

A lack of control in midfield against a dynamic side who didn't play on Thursday is not totally outrageous.

Offline redmark

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Worth considering what the manager thought the problems were:

“It was a bit Jekyll and Hyde football today,” said Klopp. “You could see how good we can be. We were incredible in the first 35 minutes. Then after an intense week, away at Arsenal, I don’t have any real explanation but the intensity might be one. We became sloppy in the last line

“In the second half we were not compact, the first line pressed too high and the distance was not right,” admitted Klopp. “We played a high line and did not catch them offside which was our fault of course


-- separate interview/quotes --

"We looked really sharp and ready to play in small spaces then two or three sloppy passes and the stadium is back, Palace is back and we did not start well in the second half.

"We had our moments but we did not control it any more. If you lose a little bit of focus it showed how tired we could be as Palace played a really good game. We opened the door for them and they ran through."



The word 'sloppy' in the two separate interviews might referring to different things, though not entirely clear; the second is directly about 'sloppy passes' - the first may be the same (Matip's pass is obviously in the last line, Firmino's was also played from deep and between full back and centre back); or could be about the last line positionally, related to the point that the offside trap failed a few times and subjectively, regardless of how high it was, it wasn't much of a line at times.


But the explanation of the second half is in contrast to many of those posting - not that we "didn't press" in the second half, but that the line of engagement was too high, with too great a distance between the lines, not compact. We also pressed very high in the first 35 minutes, but that was counter-pressing, winning the second ball high and quickly attacking Palace. The 'defensive' press in the second half was ragged and made us too open. That presumably explains the substitution of Ox fairly early. We still had a couple of midfielders we could have brought on with clearer instructions to correct that (if Henderson/Jones felt to be particularly at fault), but didn't bring on Milner until after the penalty (though he'd been stood waiting for a few minutes) - and then for Firmino. In Milner's case, possibly he didn't have the legs for much more than that, after a busy period in which he's looked knackered at times; Morton, some hesitation with his inexperience at a difficult stage of the game?

It's fairly easy now for Henderson to get the bulk of the blame, but that doesn't feel quite right: if it were, that would be clearer from selection/substitutions and Klopp's behaviour on the touchline. It's surely about groups of players and the distances/cohesion between them, and I think it's clear that in several aspects the right side - Trent, Matip, Henderson, Ox/Minamino - is less secure, less positionally sound, a little less energetic, than the left. Perhaps more importantly, that would be a common perception that the opposition would seek to exploit. Though from several recent games, they're getting in behind Robertson/Van Dijk too occasionally, but we're perhaps just dealing with the resulting chances better (or are luckier, on small sample sizes) on those occasions.
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The game could roughly be divided into:
35 minutes of us being brilliant and dominant
25 minutes of us being wide open and all over the show
30 minutes of us just doing enough and grinding it out effectively.

This seems to be a bit of a pattern when we are 2-0 up and in complete control.

AC Milan, Brighton, Chelsea, Palace even Everton. :o

Offline Fitzy.

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-snip-

It's fairly easy now for Henderson to get the bulk of the blame, but that doesn't feel quite right: if it were, that would be clearer from selection/substitutions and Klopp's behaviour on the touchline. It's surely about groups of players and the distances/cohesion between them, and I think it's clear that in several aspects the right side - Trent, Matip, Henderson, Ox/Minamino - is less secure, less positionally sound, a little less energetic, than the left. Perhaps more importantly, that would be a common perception that the opposition would seek to exploit. Though from several recent games, they're getting in behind Robertson/Van Dijk too occasionally, but we're perhaps just dealing with the resulting chances better (or are luckier, on small sample sizes) on those occasions.

Interesting analysis and comments from Klopp. As fans we can get drawn into player-blaming when we see something going wrong. Given the way Klopp has built the team and the importance of the system, it's reasonable to assume that the collective started to lose their way rather than a single player.

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This seems to be a bit of a pattern when we are 2-0 up and in complete control.

AC Milan, Brighton, Chelsea, Palace even Everton. :o
That's true - an odd pattern. There's also the other side of things that considers the idea that opposition teams will have their moments and good spells. A team finding their feet in a game could be, in part, down to their own tactical shifts and tweaks. Not just down to Liverpool being demonstrably worse.


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Focus on Jota first. Tries to flick the ball over the goalie towards goal, mis kicks it and you literally see him move towards the ball just before the keeper is there - so this thing about him making the contact is unfair as he’s actually trying to go towards the ball.

Then focus on the goalie, comes sliding out of his goal and his momentum takes him into Jota nowhere near the ball.

All the debate around the penalty simply shows people believe there are different rules for a foul in the box than outside it.
The cowardice of referees and their boss Riley, since the Premier League went to PGMOL is the factor. Instead of reffing a game to the laws, we have an outsourced company who make up their own interpretations of the laws to avoid media debate. Media Bullshit lines like “the sending off ruined the spectacle of the game”, or “the ref thought it was too early to send him off” are up there along with “it was soft penalty” have conditioned PGMOL into avoiding certain scenarios. I’m sure if we were to sit down rationally with other clubs fans we would all be able to point to decisions where the ref shit out of an early red card, or gave a soft pen, or not. The PR after such decisions is laughable as they try to justify their actions.
The use of VAR last season to confirm the award of ridiculous penalties where forwards had stepped on defenders feet etc, has made the debate even hotter. This season we have seen VAR shit out of clear sendings of in first halves, we can point to Kane and Cresswell, Xhaka in an Arsenal game was a beneficiary just before Christmas. The debate around the penalty is an example of the narrative that penalties somehow need a higher threshold of certainty, or contact or violence.
If a defender slid into Jota in midfield the way the keeper did he would have been penalised and possibly carded. Because Jota knew he was getting hit he braced and yes he moved towards the keeper. Could he have avoided the contact? No.
All this soul searching is bollocks. The ref gave a pen. End of.
Except it won’t be because click baiters like Jenas Crooks Shearer and the rest will stir up the debate because they leech a living from it.
I am more worried that referees are not picking up on bad fouls and VAR isn’t either, something it was actually doing last season.(the VVD incident excepted). The actual standards need to be addressed.
I still think for VAR to work the ref needs to shout “ assistant, can you look at that for me because I’m not sure” as in Rugby.
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Offline Red_Rich

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I mean, the drama comes with the territory, every top team will be subject to this kind of scrutiny and commentarey. What I do find strange is the percieved wisdom that the penalty somehow denied Palace a point. I mean, the score was 2-1 at the time.

Their manager said that it sucked the life out of his team..  Er, well that's not OUR problem is it? It's your job to help your players in that situation.

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Offline wige

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Thought that Olise lad on their right wing played very well btw. Robertson was probably our best outfield performer and he had a right old battle up against him yesterday. Some great deliveries, dribbles etc. Good effort when trying to lob Ali too.

Offline Cafe De Paris

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I thought is was a pen. What var is showing is that all teams, all of them, are getting decisions some weeks and not getting them a week later. It hasn’t taken away the decision from the ref. But I am concerned with the outrage that Liverpool got this decision even though you’ve seen it given and sometimes not given. The usual lfc hating media are at it again this morning. Interesting that the biggest game this weekend was Chelsea Spurs and a big call on the Kane goal. But our penalty is bigger because it’s us. Not sure how these people are saying it won us the game either. . . . We were 1-2 ahead and time running out. They also seemed to have run out of ideas and I think we would of held out anyway.
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Offline redmark

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I thought is was a pen. What var is showing is that all teams, all of them, are getting decisions some weeks and not getting them a week later. It hasn’t taken away the decision from the ref. But I am concerned with the outrage that Liverpool got this decision even though you’ve seen it given and sometimes not given. The usual lfc hating media are at it again this morning. Interesting that the biggest game this weekend was Chelsea Spurs and a big call on the Kane goal. But our penalty is bigger because it’s us. Not sure how these people are saying it won us the game either. . . . We were 1-2 ahead and time running out. They also seemed to have run out of ideas and I think we would of held out anyway.
I don't check the back pages much (I commented on Jonathan Lieuw's Guardian piece, which was over the top in claiming Jota deliberately engineered contact), but the outrage on twitter seems fairly half-hearted to be honest, compared to the Arsenal postponement, for instance. I think if you go looking for outrage, you'll find some (and there's probably just as many reds delighting in it and stirring it; which seems to be how people get their kicks on social media these days ;)). It will be forgotten soon enough.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 11:56:27 am by redmark »
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Interesting analysis and comments from Klopp. As fans we can get drawn into player-blaming when we see something going wrong. Given the way Klopp has built the team and the importance of the system, it's reasonable to assume that the collective started to lose their way rather than a single player.

Yeah, it was clear that they were tired as a collective, that probably resulted in the gap between the lines which Klopp is referring to and was observable during the game, both between attack and midfield - as he said the attack pressed too high, and probably midfield didn't follow in those moments (lack of pressing from some areas of midfield) and between midfield and defense - where if one midfielder was beaten, they took out our entire midfield and started running at our defense.

It was a collective dis-organization if I may, I'm sure it'll be worked upon in training.

I think the 'sloppy' passes as Klopp refers are the ones from Matip and Firmino at the end of the first half, I do think it gave them some sort of confidence to attack us. Normally, we do have some sort of a counter threat when teams go at us, even if we can't regain control of the game. We are pretty good at transitions, where in we turn attacks of the opposition into goal scoring opportunities for us. For that reason, teams are mostly cautious against us, but we didn't have that counter-threat against Palace in the second half until Trent's pass, because even our passing was slightly below our standards and we kept giving the ball away to them and invited more and more pressure. It is difficult to believe that a team who played so many precision one touch passes and moves in the first half could not play simple passes in the second half. Looks like physical and maybe even mental fatigue is the probable reason for lapses in concentration.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Thought that Olise lad on their right wing played very well btw. Robertson was probably our best outfield performer and he had a right old battle up against him yesterday. Some great deliveries, dribbles etc. Good effort when trying to lob Ali too.

Agree completely. Olise was a bit of a menace and Robbo did really well in the game for the most part, but hey, what do I know - some say Robbo is lacking technically, or that he is just a left back, so that's that.

On a side note, Robbo is closing in on Baines' record of the highest number of assists in the Premier League by a defender, and in half the number of games played. Just 6 assists behind.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 12:16:21 pm by PoetryInMotion »

Offline redk84

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First 3-40 mins I can't fault us. We were exceptional, came out fast and fearless and swept them away.

That team vanished a bit after that, and it became a different game. Up until their goal we were very careless, then after in the 2nd half for a while we seemed to have flattened the game out and were managing ok apart from their attempted lob and one or two runs in behind.

Arms length...then they seemed to be getting a bit more confident and we got the pen. Game over.

We may have had a bit of help from the refs overall in that game - but its little payback for the bs that has gone against us before so I welcomeit!

Gotta keep stringing these wins together
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 12:18:25 pm by redk84 »
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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I thought is was a pen. What var is showing is that all teams, all of them, are getting decisions some weeks and not getting them a week later. It hasn’t taken away the decision from the ref. But I am concerned with the outrage that Liverpool got this decision even though you’ve seen it given and sometimes not given. The usual lfc hating media are at it again this morning. Interesting that the biggest game this weekend was Chelsea Spurs and a big call on the Kane goal. But our penalty is bigger because it’s us. Not sure how these people are saying it won us the game either. . . . We were 1-2 ahead and time running out. They also seemed to have run out of ideas and I think we would of held out anyway.

Yeah, the Kane thing is strange. It was a ridiculously poor decision to disallow the goal, there was a mere feather touch for a second and then Thiago Silva went flying in the other direction like a boulder struck him, and still our decision is being talked about? If game state is a thing, that goal could've changed the flow of the game. Spurs, having taken a lead, would've played the rest of the game differently and Chelsea would've been sucked into a Top 4 race. It has changed the entire dynamics of Top 4, I would say.

It shows that we are bigger than Spurs and Chelsea put together, and that is true anyway.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 12:19:27 pm by PoetryInMotion »

Offline redmark

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Yeah, it was clear that they were tired as a collective, that probably resulted in the gap between the lines which Klopp is referring to and was observable during the game, both between attack and midfield - as he said the attack pressed too high, and probably midfield didn't follow in those moments (lack of pressing from some areas of midfield) and between midfield and defense - where if one midfielder was beaten, they took out our entire midfield and started running at our defense.

It was a collective dis-organization if I may, I'm sure it'll be worked upon in training.

I think the 'sloppy' passes as Klopp refers are the ones from Matip and Firmino at the end of the first half, I do think it gave them some sort of confidence to attack us. Normally, we do have some sort of a counter threat when teams go at us, even if we can't regain control of the game. We are pretty good at transitions, where in we turn attacks of the opposition into goal scoring opportunities for us. For that reason, teams are mostly cautious against us, but we didn't have that counter-threat against Palace in the second half until Trent's pass, because even our passing was slightly below our standards and we kept giving the ball away to them and invited more and more pressure. It is difficult to believe that a team who played so many precision one touch passes and moves in the first half could not play simple passes in the second half. Looks like physical and maybe even mental fatigue is the probable reason for lapses in concentration.
Definitely and then the physical/mental fatigue combine. Once we gave the ball away a few times and gave Palace some hope, that pressure becomes inevitable: they're younger, more athletic, fitter and fresher (played 5 fewer games in the last two months). We dug in pretty well mostly, and still had a threat on the counter.
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Jota moved to the right because in that very same split second he had tried to flick the ball to the right and he wanted to go with it - but he missed it, and so did everyone else by the sound of it. The keeper then gave the ref a decision to make. Pen for me.
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I may not be perfect, but I’m glad I can forget about this kind of shit half an hour after the final whistle.

I’ve had a quick think about the pen and come to conclusion that I still couldn’t give a shite about whether it was or it wasn’t. Fab placed it on the spot and passed it calmly into the net. I’d call THAT a penalty :) The rest is just farts drifting in the wind.

Yep. The continuing head banging, by all sides, is amusing, but also puzzling to me, Who cares? It's done. Forgotten after a few minutes as far as I'm concerned, if this place wasn't a constant reminder.

I don't really know what the general 'outcry' is like as I don't do Twatter etc but the magnanimity in victory of Liverpool fans brings a tear to the eye. Oh the humanity, etc

One does wonder if the same would have been on show had we not got the pen and had then gone on to lose...I suspect, in that case, that the pen would have been classed by most as a stonewaller denied...
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Interesting analysis and comments from Klopp. As fans we can get drawn into player-blaming when we see something going wrong. Given the way Klopp has built the team and the importance of the system, it's reasonable to assume that the collective started to lose their way rather than a single player.
Well, some do...
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Offline Fitzy.

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Offline Yosser0_0

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This seems to be a bit of a pattern when we are 2-0 up and in complete control.

AC Milan, Brighton, Chelsea, Palace even Everton. :o

Atletico Madrid as well I think?
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Offline Yosser0_0

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For those worried about high line

We've caught the opposition offside the most times and by a long way. We caught Palace offside 5 times in addition to the above which was taken after Brentford.

Klopp's entire philosophy has revolved around high-press, high lines, offside trap, and sweeper keeping. There is no chance he abolishes that just because we concede a few chances occasionally or because some fans are nervous.

Also for some who are suggesting us to adjust our line in between games, you cannot switch a high line on and off, that would be chaotic, nobody would know when to step up or drop back and we wouldn't catch anybody offside again.

Plenty of successful teams have and will play a high line in future unless the rules are changed. I'm not saying this is the only way to be successful (other set of managers have done in a different way) but this is also one way to do it and this Klopp's way, so it would be better for us to accept that and get on board as he won't change it after building his team step by step to ultimately play this way.

Now, if you have concerns over game management or us not keeping the ball well this season compared to 2018-20, that I can relate to.

Yeah, fair point, bit like the Full Monty offside trap:-
 ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNdq_fUDyKo
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Online William Regal

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Was a strange game yesterday, we were absolutely immense that first 30 mins, such a strangle hold on the game, Palace just couldn't get out at all, such was the pressing, organisation, and aggression to win the ball back.

At half-time there was obviously a big change no doubt helped by Viera going absolutely batshit, Palace were so much more high energy and aggressive in the tackle and we didn't match that all, a complete role reversal of the 1st half, our workrate and pressing dropped off a cliff and then of course our continuation to play a high line offside trap was badly exposed by the forwards and midfield putting no pressure on the  ball at all, I think this has probably been the 4th game this season where I thought we could badly do with Wijnaldum out there.

With regards to the pen, it was never a pen in a million years in my eyes, if that was given against us I would have been fuming, absolutely fucking fuming.  We'd have still won anyway imo but it was a big break and I'm happy to accept it with open arms after some of the decisions we've had against us this season, fuck what anyone else says about the incident, 3-1, next game.

For Klopp I was delighted, with Mane, Naby, and Salah away, he's done a clean sweep of results, justified not panic buying, and showed yet again what an outstanding football manager he is.

Offline Oldmanmick

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Honestly, we're the only club in the world where that foul being given as a pen is in any way controversial, let alone the practically front page news it seems to be. Rent free.

You'd be forgiven for thinking we weren't winning the game with just a couple minutes to go the way some people are going on about it. If the ref hadn't given it then Palace would have had nothing more than a sniff of getting something from the game.

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You'd be forgiven for thinking we weren't winning the game with just a couple minutes to go the way some people are going on about it. If the ref hadn't given it then Palace would have had nothing more than a sniff of getting something from the game.

Yeah, without the penalty we still win that game, what 19 times out of 20? We could have scored a third, we could have held on, they could have scored. A lot more often than not we’d have seen the game out though.

The penalty just made it certain. Took the probability of winning from c. 90-95% to 99%. It didn’t hand us the three points.

Offline clinical

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Do these dickheads remember the Jota one at Spurs ?

Of course they don't. We've been screwed over so many times past 18 months. One finally goes in our favour and the country erupts.
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Offline 1892tillforever

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I'm fuming about the penalty to be honest.

Would much rather we got it at 1-1 or 2-2  :D

Offline thaddeus

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Yeah, it was clear that they were tired as a collective, that probably resulted in the gap between the lines which Klopp is referring to and was observable during the game, both between attack and midfield - as he said the attack pressed too high, and probably midfield didn't follow in those moments (lack of pressing from some areas of midfield) and between midfield and defense - where if one midfielder was beaten, they took out our entire midfield and started running at our defense.

It was a collective dis-organization if I may, I'm sure it'll be worked upon in training.

I think the 'sloppy' passes as Klopp refers are the ones from Matip and Firmino at the end of the first half, I do think it gave them some sort of confidence to attack us. Normally, we do have some sort of a counter threat when teams go at us, even if we can't regain control of the game. We are pretty good at transitions, where in we turn attacks of the opposition into goal scoring opportunities for us. For that reason, teams are mostly cautious against us, but we didn't have that counter-threat against Palace in the second half until Trent's pass, because even our passing was slightly below our standards and we kept giving the ball away to them and invited more and more pressure. It is difficult to believe that a team who played so many precision one touch passes and moves in the first half could not play simple passes in the second half. Looks like physical and maybe even mental fatigue is the probable reason for lapses in concentration.
Definitely.  The intensity we play at seems critical to how we perform but it must be very difficult to maintain it across a whole match.  It would be reasonable to expect it becomes more difficult when the squad is reduced and/or the number of games increases, both of which have happened in the past six weeks.

I also think it's a tactic where we have to fully commit;  Defend high, press high, fill the gaps behind the press, no compromise.  At times it's felt like we've had a few shaky moments, either giving up chances or a goal, and then gone into a spiral of hesitancy where the gaps then become larger and it snowballs.  Ignoring this season, the Villa and Watford games of the past two seasons were similar (that such games stick in the mind shows what a generally excellent tactic and implementation it is!).

Without Thiago and Wijnaldum or, more bluntly, with Hendo or Milner we can be pressed into playing ourselves into trouble and turning over the ball.  Hendo and Milner bring other qualities but I doubt either would be the type of midfielder Klopp would have signed for this system.  I think Klopp and Ljinders are right to hold their nerve though as swapping systems and approach would create more hesitancy.

We should also give credit to the opposition.  Palace's forward line is ideally suited to exposing a high line and, in my opinion, they benefited from not having Zaha as he slows down or ends so many counter attacks by either being tackled or fouled.  West Ham did similar when they beat us, quick and incisive passing paired with willing runners.  I expect Leicester will set up the same way.  The Premier League in general is a very high standard and quality players are always going to, at some point or other, exploit space given to them.

And we still won 3-1! 

Offline B0151?

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Honestly who cares about the decision
 
We should be talking more about the ball from Trent rather than what other people think

Have to say I'm loving the outrage over it personally. I also love how Jota was complaining after being brought down. Who knows if we get it if he just got right back up

Offline newterp

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by the time the next game is played...a long long 2 weeks - the pundits will have had so much time to rewrite history dissect the penalty that we will have learned a few things

1) this has been the only penalty given in the PL this season - of course favoring LiVARpool
2) Palace would have won the game as they were leading 1-0 and the penalty changed the course of the game.
3) Klopp bullied the refs into giving it
4) This game should be replayed - or at least Liverpool should be docked point

Offline Elzar

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by the time the next game is played...a long long 2 weeks - the pundits will have had so much time to rewrite history dissect the penalty that we will have learned a few things

2) Palace would have won the game


Carragher decided they should be winning around the 70 minute mark.
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Offline 12C

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Jota moved to the right because in that very same split second he had tried to flick the ball to the right and he wanted to go with it - but he missed it, and so did everyone else by the sound of it. The keeper then gave the ref a decision to make. Pen for me.

If I was about to be clattered by the goalie, my reaction would be to brace and try and bounce him off. If you  half hearted into a challenge you will come off worse. I think Jota was making sure the goalie didn’t flatten him
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Offline Tuco Ramνrez

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I bet if we would have scored that goal Palace got it would have been classed as 'controversial'  too

A player that has been played offside scoring the goal...

How can these situations be deemed as not interfering with play?

Offline newterp

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I bet if we would have scored that goal Palace got it would have been classed as 'controversial'  too

A player that has been played offside scoring the goal...

How can these situations be deemed as not interfering with play?

who was offside on the palace goal?