Topic: PL: Crystal Palace 1 v 3 Liverpool VVD 8’ Ox 32’ Edouard 54’ Fabinho 89’

[the_red_pill]

The Brazillians go play some games, as does Minamino. Might be some others as well as I think its only the European players who get a break.

Would be good for Mina.
Bobby needs the gametime. Fabinho could perhaps do with a break, but he's had some rest this season as well.
Regardless, think we're looking good after the break.
Fingers crossed they won't see injury..

[StL-Dono]

Drawn 3/16 this season when taking a lead, I think, after today. No losses.

I believe I saw the stat during the match than City have scored first in 17 matches this season.

They've won 17 of those 17. 

[keyop]

The Brazillians go play some games, as does Minamino. Might be some others as well as I think its only the European players who get a break.

Thanks - forgot about the South America WC qualifiers.

Still pretty good to have the majority of our squad together for so long. Fingers crossed we see Thiago, Elliot and the elusive Divock back soon, as we'll need everyone to get this quadruple done 

[RedG13]

11 pages and I don't think anyone's mentioned that Fabinho has now scored 4 goals in 5 games!  What a player.

As for the game, take those 3 points and move on.  It's great to see we've come through January unscathed after losing Salah, Mane, Keita to Afcon and Thiago being out as well.  We'll need all of them back as the boys today looked mentally spent in that second half.  Too many wayward passes and very poor decisions after a great opening 35 minutes.

I'm also looking forward to having Elliot back, but lets remember he's still only 18 and is coming back from a nasty injury.

The Quad is still on!

Fabinho making a late run for golden boot

[killer-heels]

Would be good for Mina.
Bobby needs the gametime. Fabinho could perhaps do with a break, but he's had some rest this season as well.
Regardless, think we're looking good after the break.
Fingers crossed they won't see injury..

Brazil play their last game on the 2nd Feb and we play Leicester on the 10th so I imagine the Brazillians get a rest between that and are not played in the game against Cardiff. Fabinho is the only one you worry about.

[blert596]

Was it wasnt it a pen? I care not one Jota.

3 points for us, only 1 for City, and fuck all for Everton, and Stevie making their piss boil.

Would have been made even more perfect if Cavani was given offside but hey ho. I'll take that and the Afcon mob will be back soon.

[PoetryInMotion]

Fundamentally, the lack of pressure in the midfield (lack of legs, or lack of shape) is what causes the problem. At one stage Anderson just got the ball off the keeper, strolled up the pitch unchallenged then chipped it over the top of us and we were in the shit all of a sudden. It took them no effort, just one decent-ish ball into space.

Yep..

[jooneyisdagod]

No way is that a penalty but thank you Kevin Friend and whoever the VAR was!

[stockdam]

Seriously? Joe Gomez should just fuck off now, the respect he gets from some of our own.

Wow. Nobody was disrespecting anyone. I’m a big fan of Gomez but I think he’s behind Konate but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player. All I said was if Matip needs a rest then Konate is a very competent replacement (as is Gomez).

[PoetryInMotion]

Yeah, we could have been 4-0 up after 35 mins but we weren't and it's a 90 min game  You still have to manage the game. From that position we could well have drawn or lost the game. It would have been the 4th time we have given up 2-0 leads in the league, 5th if you include European games.
The midfield has not been performing quite right for most of the season and we will have to do what we can for the rest of the season before it is addressed in the summer.
Hopefully though we can keep Thiago, Fabinho and a.n.other fit enough for the rest of the season to push City.
My comment about Palace was them being a team that caused us trauma at significant moments. We haven't had a game with huge significance against them for a long time but they ruined Stevie's last game, we drew a must win game there under Rogers and we lost a semi final against them after beating them 9-0. The point is they are s team that make you nervous and they certainly did that today!

Yeah, I agree with the midfield part, have mentioned it a few times before.

But regarding Palace, all those happened long back, and frankly I don't think Klopp and the current set of players care about it one bit to be affected. We've played against Palace in title races and Top 4 races since 2015, not sure why you don't think they were significant.

They only played like that today, because Vieira has transformed them. They've been playing well at their home for a while this season, the results haven't come though. Even then, they suffered some blows before they could start playing

[Coolie High]

Wow. Nobody was disrespecting anyone. I’m a big fan of Gomez but I think he’s behind Konate but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player. All I said was if Matip needs a rest then Konate is a very competent replacement (as is Gomez).

I would love to see Gomez get a run in the side, at his best he’s our 2nd best cb and the most suited to our high line.

[Fromola]

Fundamentally, the lack of pressure in the midfield (lack of legs, or lack of shape) is what causes the problem. At one stage Anderson just got the ball off the keeper, strolled up the pitch unchallenged then chipped it over the top of us and we were in the shit all of a sudden. It took them no effort, just one decent-ish ball into space.

That's what I mean about the high line. For it to work, the midfield needs to work, the whole team does. In fairness we bossed them all over the pitch for 30 mins and it worked perfectly but then the legs and the shape went.

That becomes the frustrating thing. It often takes a really well crafted move for us to create a good chance (or very sharp high pressing), whereas the opponent just need to run into space and boot the ball up the pitch.

[stockdam]

I would love to see Gomez get a run in the side, at his best he’s our 2nd best cb and the most suited to our high line.

Yes he needs a run of games. He’s our quickest defender along with VVD and it may have been wise to bring him on earlier to cover the ball in behind our defence.

[Fromola]

Yes he needs a run of games. He’s our quickest defender along with VVD and it may have been wise to bring him on early to cover the ball in behind our defence.

Is he up to speed though? Obviously he won't be without getting the games, it's the fact we can't afford to throw him in cold in big games. He's just missed a year of football with a 2nd ACL since he's been here (on top of other broken bones).

For one thing he's going to be rusty as fuck but is he going to be as quick? It was Konate that came on at half time the other night. I was surprised he didn't start today.

[PoetryInMotion]

That becomes the frustrating thing. It often takes a really well crafted move for us to create a good chance (or very sharp high pressing), whereas the opponent just need to run into space and boot the ball up the pitch.

Do you realize we often create and more and better chances than the opposition in almost every league game? It's rare for us to get out-shot and out-xGd.

If it is so easy for teams to create chances against us, why don't more teams do it often every game? Something doesn't add up.

[Gifted Right Foot]

4 wins, a draw and into a cup final without Keita, Mane or Salah.  I'll take that.  Could include Origi, Elliott and Thiago in that as well.  Regroup with most of those returning back by our next game and keep grinding away.   

[Barrow Shaun]

Was anyone else shitting it in the second half, fearing any ball over the top?

[Fromola]

Do you realize we often create and more and better chances than the opposition in almost every league game? It's rare for us to get out-shot and out-xGd.

If it is so easy for teams to create chances against us, why don't more teams do it often every game? Something doesn't add up.

We don't tend to give a lot of shots up in general and do dominate most games. It's more when teams get in behind they're creating a better quality of chances and we're really reliant on Ali (one of the problems with the Villa 7-2 was Adrian in goal). Palace had a higher XG than us today despite us being totally dominant for most of the first half and 14 shots to 8.

As I mentioned before the perception can also be worse because of the late offside flag which gives more jeopardy (but doesn't count on the shots/XG). It can also give the opponent more encouragement than if the flag goes up early and can unsettle the defence.

[PoetryInMotion]

We don't tend to give a lot of shots up in general and do dominate most games. It's more when teams get in behind they're creating a better quality of chances and we're really reliant on Ali (one of the problems with the Villa 7-2 was Adrian in goal). Palace had a higher XG than us today despite us being totally dominant for most of the first half and 14 shots to 8.

As I mentioned before the perception can also be worse because of the late offside flag which gives more jeopardy (but doesn't count on the shots/XG). It can also give the opponent more encouragement than if the flag goes up early and can unsettle the defence.

So, it is, as I said, rare? And my point, still stands?

The late offside flag doesn't affect anyone specifically, except maybe nervy fans and the players who have to run back unnecessarily. The ones who realize it could be offside are mostly calm. Also the late offside flag doesn't indicate a system issue, what's offside is still offside and won't count if we concede. The whole point of the high line is to press and if we can't get the ball, play the opposition ofside. If we play the opposition offside, it's a good thing, not something to be nervous or moan about. Not sure, what you are on about.

[FowlerLegend]

Yeah, I agree with the midfield part, have mentioned it a few times before.

But regarding Palace, all those happened long back, and frankly I don't think Klopp and the current set of players care about it one bit to be affected. We've played against Palace in title races and Top 4 races since 2015, not sure why you don't think they were significant.

They only played like that today, because Vieira has transformed them. They've been playing well at their home for a while this season, the results haven't come though. Even then, they suffered some blows before they could start playing

I understand what you are saying and I expect you are right from Klopp's perspective. The win against them when Bobby scored at their place felt quite big a few years ago but what I meant was that had we lost it would have been an absolute killer. The last time a game against them held so much significance towards the title was 2013.
It would have increased the gap, significantly kept it still in double figures and I would have struggled to see us coming back. I cannot see a defeat against them since 2015 being quite as damaging.
As it is we have reached a cup final, capitalised on City dropping points and taken the lead into single figures. It is a massive win for momentum.
On Palace themselves, they were very good against us at Anfield, caused us loads of problems and were just let down by being disorganised at set pieces so them carrying a threat was not a big surprise.
What was alarming was as Klopp put it the "Jekyll and Hyde" element of our performance but perhaps more concerning was Jurgen being not quite sure what caused it.
Klopp made some interesting comments in the week around COVID impacts and while I think a number of our issues emanate from the midfield, the age of our team was such that playing 3 games in a week shouldn't cause such a significant drop-off in game so maybe other aspects are exacerbating the tiredness.
Hopefully it will resolve over the break and we will be boosted by Thiago being available for a good period and Elliott adding some energy too. Cheers!

[4pool]

Maybe our midfield wasn't so good today because Palace changed their attack, after we dominated the first 30-35 minutes, to launch long balls over the top. So the midfielders were on their bikes tracking back as the ball flies over their heads.

[redmark]

Wow. Nobody was disrespecting anyone. I’m a big fan of Gomez but I think he’s behind Konate but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player. All I said was if Matip needs a rest then Konate is a very competent replacement (as is Gomez).

It was more the Nat Phillips one that followed, and it sounded harsher than I meant it. Ignore the occasional outburst .

I do think a fit Gomez is/should be ahead of a still slightly raw Konate, though - and at his best, ahead of Matip.

Is he up to speed though? Obviously he won't be without getting the games, it's the fact we can't afford to throw him in cold in big games. He's just missed a year of football with a 2nd ACL since he's been here (on top of other broken bones).

For one thing he's going to be rusty as fuck but is he going to be as quick? It was Konate that came on at half time the other night. I was surprised he didn't start today.

Double checking his appearances, Gomez started the three earlier EFL games at CB and managed the full 90. I don't recall any lack of pace standing out, and I'd have been looking for it coming back from injury. Three sub appearances in each of the league and CL - 4 of those straight swap at RB (the other two I don't recall and was subbed on for a midfielder or attacker).

Was getting fairly regular involvement from late September to the end of October, but none in November (was that when he had the setback?) and a couple later in December. Used twice in the last 10 days though, so maybe getting back to fitness again.

[redmark]

Was anyone else shitting it in the second half, fearing any ball over the top?

No. We were scrappy and they created a few half chances, but I never had that feeling of an equaliser being inevitable.

[tray fenny]

The Quad is still on!

excellent, thought they knocked it down

[Big Bamber]

I don’t think it was a pen. But I know it wasn’t the winner.

[Barrow Shaun]

No. We were scrappy and they created a few half chances, but I never had that feeling of an equaliser being inevitable.

Really?? I was convinced. We were shite at retaining the ball.

[Nick110581]

Was anyone else shitting it in the second half, fearing any ball over the top?

Not especially.

They had a couple of chances but the way Carragher was banging on, you would think we were being peppered all match.

[decosabute]

No. We were scrappy and they created a few half chances, but I never had that feeling of an equaliser being inevitable.

This. While I thought we absolutely went off a cliff and were a bit braindead with our very open shape from 35-60, it was only in that period where we were all over the place and looked like conceding. Take the emotion out of it, and from 60 mins onwards, while not playing much great stuff, we tightened up and didn't allow them much at all. Olise's lob palmed away by Alisson (which really came out of absolutely nothing) was pretty much all they had after it went 2-1. Think it's misrepresenting the game when people say Palace just dominated from 30 minutes on - they'd shot their bolt as well after the huge effort either side of half time, and they had very little cutting edge the last 20 minutes. Even without the pen, I'm quite sure we would've hung on.

[Mighty_Red]

Was a shambolic 2nd half display. For 30 odd minutes I was steeling myself for an eventual equaliser, just couldn't see how we could survive unless we grabbed a 3rd.

They had too much pace for us and most of our players have played 3 games in a row (some 4) and it showed. VVD was so slow to react but I'll give them all a pass based on energy levels. We just haven't got enough bodies fit to rotate with all the absences.

Was surprised the pen was given by VAR, it wasn't a nailed on pen but the goalie does take him out without getting anywhere near the ball so I understand why its given. I think people get confused with the ball  running away with a last man red card offence rule. The ball can be 10 yards away and a foul/pen can still be given!

Things will be far better after the intl break, get some R&R and come back fresh.

[decosabute]

Not especially.

They had a couple of chances but the way Carragher was banging on, you would think we were being peppered all match.

Yep. Think people (understandably) watched the last half hour in an irrational way, because the way I saw it, Palace got less and less good once we decided to just stop pressing so high and be slightly more conservative.

The game could roughly be divided into:
35 minutes of us being brilliant and dominant
25 minutes of us being wide open and all over the show
30 minutes of us just doing enough and grinding it out effectively.

[Red_Mist]

Was anyone else shitting it in the second half, fearing any ball over the top?

I wasn’t that bad, but definitely a little bit on edge. I know I was feeling it a bit by the amount I was looking at how long was gone. Seeing it off in 5 minute blocks is a sure sign I’m not fully relaxed! Shitting it though? Nah, not with Ali in goal

[vivabobbygraham]

The “VAR/referees/league/PGMOL/world is out to get Liverpool Football Club” boys will be quiet tonight. 

Sometimes you throw a dog a bone. Did you watch the Tottenham game? Luckily no mancs involved in our game today

[Fromola]

This. While I thought we absolutely went off a cliff and were a bit braindead with our very open shape from 35-60, it was only in that period where we were all over the place and looked like conceding. Take the emotion out of it, and from 60 mins onwards, while not playing much great stuff, we tightened up and didn't allow them much at all. Olise's lob palmed away by Alisson (which really came out of absolutely nothing) was pretty much all they had after it went 2-1. Think it's misrepresenting the game when people say Palace just dominated from 30 minutes on - they'd shot their bolt as well after the huge effort either side of half time, and they had very little cutting edge the last 20 minutes. Even without the pen, I'm quite sure we would've hung on.

Yeah, it was the middle third of the game we lost the plot.

I thought after Palace scored we managed the game well enough. Although it's nervy when you're watching it, they only had the odd chance to equalise which was a scrappy loose ball. The pen was a relief because you feared the sucker punch.

[vivabobbygraham]

Since his 'spitting' incident he's been bricking it as he really thought that Sky were going to pot him over the incident. He's that desperate to keep his job, he'll say anything that he thinks will keep him on the right side of the powers that be at Sky. I'm not sure it works that way and shows a lack of intellect to think that way. What his 'anti-bias' viewpoints do is provide anybody in the media with an anti Liverpool agenda to point to his statements as validation that certain decisions like today must have been favourable because even one of our own has said it.
 

He was a reasonable footballer but as a person, I just can't warm to him. He's a dreadful pundit and an even worse commentator, I never listen to him unless I have to on a commentary. His bedwetting over Liverpool's high line is tedious and reveals more about his own insecurities as a player than offering any genuine footballing insight. Liverpool playing a high line really isn't anything new, we've been doing it for decades, think back to the '86 cup final for example. Carragher would have hated playing in a team with a high line and he's lucky that he played under probably two of the most defensive managers we've seen at the club, he wouldn't be getting into this current team. As a manager himself, he'd be hopeless and would probably play a 5-4-1 formation.

[Supared]

For me I always look at any situation in the penalty box as if it is outside the box. I don’t look at the decision to be made as whether it is a penalty or not. The question should be whether it is a free-kick. If that challenge happens outside the box (by any opposition player) then it is a stone wall free-kick. In fact, earlier in the same game Trent was taken out on the half way line just after he kicked the ball forward. The result was a free-kick to Liverpool. No argument. No question. Trent actually was limping a bit after he got up. It made no difference whether the ball was going to a Liverpool player, going straight down the keepers throat or out for a goal kick. The play was brought back for a free-kick.

Did anyone question the validity? Yet when something similar happens in the box there is a reluctance to give a free kick because then it is a penalty. And mainly because a penalty actually has a serious impact on the score-line (and result) which has ensured referees are more reluctant to give them. They shouldn’t be reluctant though. And we as supporters have fallen into the same trap. We somehow dumb down challenges in the box just like referees do. We have probably become this way due to decades and decades of this line of thinking. It has been imparted on us that a challenge outside the box is not the same as one inside the box. Pundits will always talk about nailed on free-kicks and yellow card offences when they happen outside the box but then suddenly these same challenges are dumbed down when they happen inside the box.
 
One of the reasons I was in favour of VAR was for incidents like today. The referee did his usual waving away of the penalty because of where the challenge took place. Despite the fact he gave a similar decision on Trent earlier in the game. What was the difference? Trent played the ball and was taken out by a late challenge. Jota played the ball and was taken out by a late challenge. Neither challenger’s got near the ball. If the free-kick awarded for the challenge on Trent was correct then so too should a free-kick be given for the challenge on Jota. The fact it is in the penalty area and resulted in a penalty should not come into it. But it is the reason people see controversy where there isn’t one. Given the opportunity to review the incident (with another persons line of thinking too) the referee could see the challenge for what it was.

Jota was fouled (of that there is no doubt) and anywhere else on the pitch would have the same interpretation by anybody who watches the game. All those saying it is a soft decision or was never a pen would most certainly say, without any doubt, that Jota was fouled if that had happened outside the penalty area. If a free-kick had been awarded there would have been no-one putting forward the notion it was a soft free-kick. Had the none penalty decision challenge against Jota versus Tottenham occurred outside the box I am fairly sure a free-kick would have been given. In the box though and suddenly decisions are clouded when they shouldn’t be. The question should not be is it a penalty or not. The question should be is it a free-kick or not. Or has the player been fouled or not. Based on this alone then for me the answer is that Jota was fouled and therefore it’s a nailed on penalty IMHO.

[vivabobbygraham]

Jones is a baller love the kid, Gallagher will i feel be the one of this loan batch that does make it at Chelsea, looks a player the kid.

Curtis was pretty fucking sound today, Sarge. Once he hitches his final third attacking skills to his wagon, he's gonna be top drawer. Still being heavily coached by the boss at the mo in his defensive positions. But the boss has him like a piece of elazzie just stretching him back. He'll be letting him go soon then ping. As for Gallagher...I like him, gnarly little fucker. Chelsea through and through though which makes him suspect. Seems Jurgen likes Martinelli...

[vivabobbygraham]

If they can keep them they will as they mature will be a handful for any team but my guess bar Zaha they'll be ripped away in time.

They'll give City a lot of problems at Selhurst Park as they did at the emptihad

[VVM]

I must be more biased than I thought but I thought it was a pretty obvious pen. Maybe the slow mo made it look more realistic than was actually likely but I thought Jota would have got that ball if he wasn't taken out.

[rushyman]

It says 1-3 to us in the heading of this

Surely that’s not right ? We were given a dodgy pen with 4 mins left that won the game

Did we get 2 pens ? Obviously we can’t have already been winning that would make all the hype completely over the top bitter by all concerned

[Jshooters]

Peroni. He kept good stuff for himself ;-)

What’s the good stuff? Peroni is my idea of a treat!