Topic: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say

[CraigDS]

We have not been eating dairy products from the beginning. That is a wrong statement.

I mean technically dairy was one of the first things the vast majority of humans who have ever lived ever tasted.

[idontknow]

I love a nice cold glass of creamy Jersey milk.

I do eat a lot of plant based food these days as there’s more and more choice that’s really tasty.  Sometimes, in a restaurant, the vegan burger is the tastiest on the menu as the chef has put some thought into it. I do love a juicy cheeseburger though when done well, but I usually go for the vegan option if I can and it’s not just some Quorn shite.

Making more choice and tasty choices will be the best way to win some people over if the ethical argument doesn’t bother them.

Since I stopped eating meat - or whatever it was - I have noticed this tendency of meat eaters at any kind of buffet to raid the cheese rolls and salad bowls first. The only way I can retaliate is by hurling the tray the ribs out into the street and then locking the doors behind after they charge out.

Half-joking, but you watch next time you're at a buffet.

On unrelated matters, why do drivers drive faster when it is raining.
They definitely do.

Us vegetarian pedestrians know this shit.
 

[Peabee]

Since I stopped eating meat - or whatever it was - I have noticed this tendency of meat eaters at any kind of buffet to raid the cheese rolls and salad bowls first. The only way I can retaliate is by hurling the tray the ribs out into the street and then locking the doors behind after they charge out.

Half-joking, but you watch next time.
 

Haha, buffet politics.

[CraigDS]

Us vegetarian pedestrians know this shit.
 

Vegetarian? You’re a poor mans Vegan.

[Black Bull Nova]

Just because we've 'always done it and we're still around', isn't really the greatest argument re; dairy especially.

Dairy is something that only a few thousand years ago humans were able to actually stomach without getting sick, and if a quarter of the human population still can't stomach it, I'd say, personally, it's maybe something that we shouldn't really be consuming. Any nutrients that dairy can give you, you can better get from other sources.

The main issue for me is the ethical side of it, and I think consuming dairy is wrong. Cows have been bred to the point where they can barely walk, and need to be milked constantly or risk serious health issues. The idea of drinking another animals lactate has always creeped me out, like I get eating meat in more ways than consuming dairy, it's something lots of animals do, but no other animal will drink the lactate of another species.

I do sometimes eat meat, but I do think we'll soon get to the point where substitution meat is better sourced (not difficult considering how most meat is sourced), and as nice as meat can be.

Just my two cents.

Humans have a funny attitude to animals, especially the British (unlike some countries) where animals which would never existed except for farming have been 'created' for one purpose alone and are quite a sad sight to see in their almost freakish form that would never survive in the wild. At the same time people would regard a 'dog curry' or a 'horse stew' with revulsion, regardless of the taste. There is so much psychologically behind meat eating these days now that the link between direct killing and consumption has been severed (for all those who don't work in slaughterhouses). I come from the ethical side and it gets quite complex because ethics drive you down a path where you could never stop if you kept of going. For me it just defines how we are as a species at this time in our development, we seemed to have made massive progress in terms of how we might regard our fellow humans and now that seems to have shifted to a wider perspective for many as well.

I think the interesting take is how meat eating is equated with a certain 'toughness' whilst the alternatives are regarded as a certain type of 'softness', the idea that you 'care' too much. I think the proportion of the population that would be prepared to slit the throat of a living creature is relatively small right now, despite the fact that the majority of the population would eat the flesh.

[Black Bull Nova]

Since I stopped eating meat - or whatever it was - I have noticed this tendency of meat eaters at any kind of buffet to raid the cheese rolls and salad bowls first. The only way I can retaliate is by hurling the tray the ribs out into the street and then locking the doors behind after they charge out.

Half-joking, but you watch next time you're at a buffet.

On unrelated matters, why do drivers drive faster when it is raining.
They definitely do.

Us vegetarian pedestrians know this shit.
 

Bastards they are, there's nothing worse that a buffet where the omnivores have stolen our only pleasure and you left with 2 slices of tomato, some cress and some crisps

[CraigDS]

Humans have a funny attitude to animals, especially the British (unlike some countries) where animals which would never existed except for farming have been 'created' for one purpose alone and are quite a sad sight to see in their almost freakish form that would never survive in the wild. At the same time people would regard a 'dog curry' or a 'horse stew' with revulsion, regardless of the taste. There is so much psychologically behind meat eating these days now that the link between direct killing and consumption has been severed (for all those who don't work in slaughterhouses). I come from the ethical side and it gets quite complex because ethics drive you down a path where you could never stop if you kept of going. For me it just defines how we are as a species at this time in our development, we seemed to have made massive progress in terms of how we might regard our fellow humans and now that seems to have shifted to a wider perspective for many as well.

I think the interesting take is how meat eating is equated with a certain 'toughness' whilst the alternatives are regarded as a certain type of 'softness', the idea that you 'care' too much. I think the proportion of the population that would be prepared to slit the throat of a living creature is relatively small right now, despite the fact that the majority of the population would eat the flesh.

I find the whole “you won’t slit its throat so why do you eat it” argument weird.

I wouldn’t shoot a human but I see the need for police / armed forces. I wouldn’t spend hours in the sun in a field (and I’ve done it when I was young) but I’d eat veg. I wouldn’t work in a lithium mine but I use a mobile phone daily with a lithium battery.

I could literally go on and on with similar examples.

[Black Bull Nova]

I find the whole “you won’t slit its throat so why do you eat it” argument weird.

I wouldn’t shoot a human but I see the need for police / armed forces. I wouldn’t spend hours in the sun in a field (and I’ve done it when I was young) but I’d eat veg. I wouldn’t work in a lithium mine but I use a mobile phone daily with a lithium battery.

I could literally go on and on with similar examples.

I think your analogy is missing the point, what you would say is, I wouldn't shoot someone but I'd be happy for someone to do it for me.

I suppose what I am saying is that as humans, we have become more and more divorced from the realities of what meat actually is but at the same time still cling to some of the rituals that we still align to it. The same thing happened with human conflict, 1000 years ago when there was conflict men would line up against each other and use hand to hand combat, in the last century we developed the ability to eviscerate people from the sky without the trouble, these days we can watch guided missiles launched at sea take out whatever we want without any involvement or aftermath. We have, as a species, become remote from the realities of life and death aside from that small proportion of the population we engage to do it for us.

[Passmaster Molby]

We have not been eating dairy products from the beginning. That is a wrong statement. We have been gatherers before we've been hunters. Humans needed to evolve to build shard enough tool tips to master hunting. It took a few thousand years. However, you are right, meat was consumed by pretty much all humans, but the frequency and the quantity of consumption was so different than it is today. Even the modern day hunter gatherer communities in Papua New Guinea, Africa and other places primarily rely on their vegetables and fruits for most of their daily needs. There are a few documentaries that show their food inventories and their lifestyle. They do consume meat, but you will be amazed by how little the amount is.

Moreover, most of us live a sedentary lifestyle in the modern world, which calls for reduction in saturated fats. Instead we upped our intake of meat and dairy. Red meat is considered a class 3 carcinogen in most countries and processed meat is classified a class 1 carcinogen by WHO. The cancer risks of excessive meat and dairy consumption are real. Don't fall for the sugar narrative. Just a smoke screen. Sugar is bad, but its effects are nothing compared to the ones meat and dairy have on your body. Big meat and dairy industries have some of the most powerful lobbies that can influence these narratives. "Big Broccoli" isn't rich enough to compete with that.

A mother’s breast milk is literally the very definition of a dairy product, and that’s how all young humans start their life cycle. You are also wrong on sugar as that stuff literally rots you from the inside and is the source of most human health problems due to it raising blood sugars (one of the most dangerous scenarios for a human being and the reason we have a defence mechanism called Insulin to stop it killing us)

Saturated fat is also not a problem for humans when it is consumed in large quantities as part of a natural foods, healthy diet. Start mixing it with sugars and man made chemicals (as found in that impossible meat and other factory made Frankenstein foods) and yes you will start having health issues.

The human body is largely made up of saturated fat (cholesterol) and human breast milk is made up mainly of saturated fats, so why would this suddenly be the villain of the piece when we have survived on it for millenniums and these fake foods and refined sugars/grains are seen as absolutely fine. It makes no sense and doesn’t add up at all, unless there is a huge agenda against natural animal based foods which their clearly is.

[Passmaster Molby]

One thing I also find odd about Veganism is that whilst they are quick to point out the fact they hate the cruelty towards animals that are reared as food for human consumption, they turn a blind eye to those animals that are killed by farming, pesticides and insecticides when growing vegetables. Surely that goes against their ethical stance too I would assume?

[Red-Soldier]

One thing I also find odd about Veganism is that whilst they are quick to point out the fact they hate the cruelty towards animals that are reared as food for human consumption, they turn a blind eye to those animals that are killed by farming, pesticides and insecticides when growing vegetables. Surely that goes against their ethical stance too I would assume?

Do they?

My experience is that most actually care about where their food comes from and how it's produced.

[Dull Tools]

A mother’s breast milk is literally the very definition of a dairy product, and that’s how all young humans start their life cycle. You are also wrong on sugar as that stuff literally rots you from the inside and is the source of most human health problems due to it raising blood sugars (one of the most dangerous scenarios for a human being and the reason we have a defence mechanism called Insulin to stop it killing us)

Saturated fat is also not a problem for humans when it is consumed in large quantities as part of a natural foods, healthy diet. Start mixing it with sugars and man made chemicals (as found in that impossible meat and other factory made Frankenstein foods) and yes you will start having health issues.

The human body is largely made up of saturated fat (cholesterol) and human breast milk is made up mainly of saturated fats, so why would this suddenly be the villain of the piece when we have survived on it for millenniums and these fake foods and refined sugars/grains are seen as absolutely fine. It makes no sense and doesn’t add up at all, unless there is a huge agenda against natural animal based foods which their clearly is.

Yes dairy from your mother which is used for the intense growth phase in the first year of your life.

Drinking milk after that is not needed at all let alone drinking milk from an animal from a cow which is meant to bulk up a calf into a full sized cow.

[idontknow]

Vegetarian? You’re a poor mans Vegan.

If I could work out what you meant
It might make sense
But currently I can't so it doesn't

[Passmaster Molby]

Yes dairy from your mother which is used for the intense growth phase in the first year of your life.

Drinking milk after that is not needed at all let alone drinking milk from an animal from a cow which is meant to bulk up a calf into a full sized cow.

Yeah I agree with you on that, and I am not a fan of drinking milk to be honest. I am partial to cream in my coffee though.

[Passmaster Molby]

Do they?

My experience is that most actually care about where their food comes from and how it's produced.

A lot probably do care, and try to use as much organic free range produce as possible. But these companies making vegan meals, impossible burgers etc as well as big farms mass producing vegetables won’t be so bothered as it affects their profit margins.

[Red-Soldier]

A lot probably do care, and try to use as much organic free range produce as possible. But these companies making vegan meals, impossible burgers etc as well as big farms mass producing vegetables won’t be so bothered as it affects their profit margins.

Their products (generally speaking) will still have less of an environmental impact than their meat equivalents though.

As I've said previously, livestock farming in general, is an extremely inefficient way of producing calories/energy.

In my experience, vegan food companies are much more ethical, compared to their meat producing counterparts too.



For me, the general message is that people who have food choices, should try to reduce their meat intake.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Yes dairy from your mother which is used for the intense growth phase in the first year of your life.

Drinking milk after that is not needed at all let alone drinking milk from an animal from a cow which is meant to bulk up a calf into a full sized cow.

PARKLIFE!

[markedasred]

JThe idea of drinking another animals lactate has always creeped me out, like I get eating meat in more ways than consuming dairy, it's something lots of animals do, but no other animal will drink the lactate of another species.

Badgers have been drinking cows milk for as long as records have existed. So one of your big argument points is just wrong. The evolution of the colder climate humans to process diary is exactly that, a form of evolution suited to our environment. The glories of the thousands of slightly different tasting small scale cheese production over the past ten thousand years is one of the pinnacles of farming and culinary achievement. A Bleu de Causse with Olive Bread and a glass of Faugeres in Lozere, to pick one less glamourous example surpasses any of the glories of the vegan table, and I suspect always will.

[24/7]

Interesting.

Started out as a bit of not totally unexpected vegan-bashing and some rather puerile insults but seems to have settled down a bit into a typically RAWK-esque to and fro of ideas and opinions, some based in fact, some not it seems. The usual robust manner in which some views are expressed is also very typical of RAWK - but in this case not enough to get the thread locked.

Oh and whoever it was, yes, it was I who mentioned reiki certification - but not at master level yet.


And for the last almost-a-year-now, I've been dating a vegan - an ethical one at that, who also eschews honey.


And I'm totally okay with that.


I've been cutting more and more animal products out of my diet and I'm much healthier for it - fact - as proven by my stats in the gym body analysis compared with 2 years ago and also my annual health check with the GP.

Reduced cholesterol, lowered BP, improved liver/kidney functions........etc.........

There are many, many myths around regarding veganism - I can categorically tell you that my vegan (seewhatididtherespezialo?) does not smell, has farts no more pungent than anyone else's - less so in fact - and my own excretions of gases and solids have improved greatly.

In fact, whenever I do revert to a diet containing more meat and dairy, my body doesn't like it much!!!


Oh and I seem to have (finally, after well over a decade!) found something that Alan_X and I firmly disagree on

Not all vegans are crackpots - some are - but you get them in absolutely any diaspora, especially any such group that espouses views from a position of superiority - and that's what I don't like - any group at any extreme spouting off smugly that their view is better than anyone else's - any vegan doing that is not helping, they're making the rest look bad.......

I'm not 100% there - I'd say 85% and rising - and I absolutely love these burgers called "Beyond Meat" - I'd encourage any carnivore to try them. They're delicious.

And that's not me saying I'm better than you because I eat plant-based meat substitutes - but I'm definitely, scientifically proven, a better version of myself in just a year.

[CraigDS]

How was your diet before going (mostly) vegan?

I hear a lot of now vegans say the same about being fitter, healthier, etc now they are vegan, but then when I ask about their diet before it tends to be they were eating shite. Rather than a balanced diet containing meat. It also tends to coincide with them taking up more physical activities too.

[AndyMuller]

Yeah the vegans I've spoken to all have said they are a lot fitter after cutting the meat out too. I might try it.

[Alan_X]

I am clearly not going to get into your Fox News style hate pedaling of a large group of people. But I am interested in the science you are talking about that does not support veganism as a sustainable lifestyle. Go ahead and give us some insights. Tell us how meat and dairy benefit your health.

What was that about the anti-vax thing? Most vegans I know are not only compassionate, but incredibly knowledgeable people in matters of science. Maybe we can actually debate the positives and negatives of the vegan lifestyle in detail rather than hateful anecdotes, Mr. Piers Moron?

Hello there. Fox News? Piers Moron? Hate peddling? All good, reasoned responses to my post.

OK then, give me the science based justfication for veganism over low-meat diets or vegetarianism. Veganism excludes any food that has any animal content even if that food is readily available and part of the natural ecosystem. If there are wild rabbits in an ecosystem that has poor agrarian land it makes sense to eat the rabbits to supplement any protein deficiency. A vegan couldn't do that.

I think intensively mass-produced meat protein should be reduced significantly and a better balance between plant based foods and animal protein developed for health and for the environment. That also includes the intelligent use of GMOs.

I'd be happy to debate further but if the starting point of the discussion is the defence of a belief system that may have some indirect health benefits over a balanced science-based approach it's not going to be very productive.

[Alan_X]

Interesting.

Started out as a bit of not totally unexpected vegan-bashing and some rather puerile insults but seems to have settled down a bit into a typically RAWK-esque to and fro of ideas and opinions, some based in fact, some not it seems. The usual robust manner in which some views are expressed is also very typical of RAWK - but in this case not enough to get the thread locked.

Oh and whoever it was, yes, it was I who mentioned reiki certification - but not at master level yet.


And for the last almost-a-year-now, I've been dating a vegan - an ethical one at that, who also eschews honey.


And I'm totally okay with that.


I've been cutting more and more animal products out of my diet and I'm much healthier for it - fact - as proven by my stats in the gym body analysis compared with 2 years ago and also my annual health check with the GP.

Reduced cholesterol, lowered BP, improved liver/kidney functions........etc.........

There are many, many myths around regarding veganism - I can categorically tell you that my vegan (seewhatididtherespezialo?) does not smell, has farts no more pungent than anyone else's - less so in fact - and my own excretions of gases and solids have improved greatly.

In fact, whenever I do revert to a diet containing more meat and dairy, my body doesn't like it much!!!


Oh and I seem to have (finally, after well over a decade!) found something that Alan_X and I firmly disagree on

Not all vegans are crackpots - some are - but you get them in absolutely any diaspora, especially any such group that espouses views from a position of superiority - and that's what I don't like - any group at any extreme spouting off smugly that their view is better than anyone else's - any vegan doing that is not helping, they're making the rest look bad.......

I'm not 100% there - I'd say 85% and rising - and I absolutely love these burgers called "Beyond Meat" - I'd encourage any carnivore to try them. They're delicious.

And that's not me saying I'm better than you because I eat plant-based meat substitutes - but I'm definitely, scientifically proven, a better version of myself in just a year.

Looking forward to catching up over a vegan non-alcoholic pint Jim.

[Alan_X]

How was your diet before going (mostly) vegan?

I hear a lot of now vegans say the same about being fitter, healthier, etc now they are vegan, but then when I ask about their diet before it tends to be they were eating shite. Rather than a balanced diet containing meat. It also tends to coincide with them taking up more physical activities too.

That's the point Craig. I am a lot fitter since I cut down on meat and improved my diet. Lost weight and feel great. I take more exercise and my blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar are all at healthy levels.

We eat vegetarian meals three or four times a week, sometimes more, but I also enjoy loads of Omega 3 rich fish, free-range eggs, wonderful cheeses and really good quality meat.

It's the 'not eating shite' bit of going vegan that is important just as the 'not eating shite' bit of a better balanced diet is important. The extreme of not eating anything animal based because of a belief system is not.

[24/7]

Looking forward to catching up over a vegan non-alcoholic pint Jim.

Same mate - looking forward to telling you how wrong you are about veganism    

(yes - that's a fish - technically I am what's referred to as a "flexitarian" - I very, very rarely eat beef or pork, even chicken is now making me feel guilty and fish is super rare for me to eat now......I don't drink animal milks any more although I am too attached to cheese to give that up totally. The vegan alternatives though are getting better and better - in our day it used to be Linda McCartney's veggie sausages, Quorn or tofu - the market has changed as demand has increased - and so has necessity.)

Also, I'll post a link to a webinar I held with one of the members of the board for the Estonian Vegan Society in the sure and certain hope that some of you will watch it......

[24/7]

It's the 'not eating shite' bit of going vegan that is important just as the 'not eating shite' bit of a better balanced diet is important. The extreme of not eating anything animal based because of a belief system is not.

Evelyn Valtin and I are currently working on a course for people who want to go vegan, or towards it - and one absolutely crucial element will be a module called, "Just Cos It's Vegan, Doesn't Make It Healthy Or Ethical!"

As you correctly pointed out about veganism, it is a choice - in this case it's a life choice, which is as much based on ethics as it is on diet. You will always, always, always get the evangelical element in any group. Reducing it though to a "belief system" does the movement a disservice though.......

I challenge you to try the 'Beyond Meat' and let me know how you enjoyed the burger.

I have it with a pineapple ring, vegan pepperoni substitute, vegan cheese slices melted, ruccola and bbq sauce and a potato-based bun. Delish.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

That's the point Craig. I am a lot fitter since I cut down on meat and improved my diet. Lost weight and feel great. I take more exercise and my blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar are all at healthy levels.

We eat vegetarian meals three or four times a week, sometimes more, but I also enjoy loads of Omega 3 rich fish, free-range eggs, wonderful cheeses and really good quality meat.

It's the 'not eating shite' bit of going vegan that is important just as the 'not eating shite' bit of a better balanced diet is important. The extreme of not eating anything animal based because of a belief system is not.

This is the crux of it for me. Vegan v meat eater is the classic binary discussion, whereas the debate should be around what meat we eat and where it comes from.

There's a massive difference between an aberdeen angus grazing on natural pasture in Scotland to be slaughtered and consumes locally, and intensively reared cattle on a ranch that's been reclaimed from rainforest whose meat will be transported globally. Apart from the gases of course, but that's the point. Fewer cattle = fewer gases.

We've also reduced meat in our diet and it's not uncommon for us to be meat free at least a couple of days per week. We went pesci in January which was so easy. But plant and pulse based curries and pasta dishes really are your friend and make it so easy to reduce the amount of meat eaten.

We also need to look at natural meat too, you mentioned rabbit, I was in Scotland recently and the abundance of deer was amazing and something we should be eating more of. It's a health low fat, sustainable meat with low food miles.

[Alan_X]

I challenge you to try the 'Beyond Meat' and let me know how you enjoyed the burger.

I have it with a pineapple ring...

Fuck me Jim - burger with pineapple!... that's just going too far...

[BarryCrocker]

Fuck me Jim - burger with pineapple!... that's just going too far...

Missing some beetroot.

[jillcwhomever]

Fuck me Jim - burger with pineapple!... that's just going too far...

That would probably be the only vegan food I could eat. 

[24/7]

It need not be a binary issue. I'm also aware that this had diverged from 'Vegans in Sport' to 'Veganism in general' - and I'm okay with that. The thread has some traction, let's keep going.

Here's the video link (in FB) for that webinar I mentioned, where a vegan talks about taking easy steps towards veganism. Please give it a chance, approach with an open mind.

https://www.facebook.com/catalyfe/videos/1356285081395703

[24/7]

That would probably be the only vegan food I could eat. 

Haha you'd be surprised - I was totally surprised. As recently as a couple of years ago i was definitely anti-salad and greens and all sorts of stuff that I thought was yeuch - but I've trained myself to appreciate some stuff now that I wouldn't touch and have now reached the point where I even crave it - ruccola for example - love it - will eat it with just about anything now!

I also love seitan piquante - delicious with teriyaki sauce, red peppers, fresh ginger and garlic, plus a honey substitute.

[Red-Soldier]

That would probably be the only vegan food I could eat. 

I switched to a manily plant-based diet 16 years ago, I eat such a diverse range of foods compared to what I did before.

I have about 10 portions of fruit and veg a day.

[24/7]

Missing some beetroot.

That's nasty. Do you put that shit on pizza too, ya freak?!

[CraigDS]

Haha you'd be surprised - I was totally surprised. As recently as a couple of years ago i was definitely anti-salad and greens and all sorts of stuff that I thought was yeuch - but I've trained myself to appreciate some stuff now that I wouldn't touch and have now reached the point where I even crave it - ruccola for example - love it - will eat it with just about anything now!

This could explain a lot of why you’re healthier, rather than simple because “vegan”. You could have had salad and greens with a high quality piece of meat or fish and likely got all the increase in health as you have from going full vegan.

[24/7]

This could explain a lot of why you’re healthier, rather than simple because “vegan”. You could have had salad and greens with a high quality piece of meat or fish and likely got all the increase in health as you have from going full vegan.

Undeniably so - which is where choice comes back into play.

I personally stopped believing that meat was 'good' for me when I realised I could get at least all the nutrients I needed and without the shit they pump into cows AND could exercise some ethical principles regarding the way cattle are treated. So it's a matter of principle that doesn't sacrifice my health - in fact, it improves it. Not just physiologically either, but also emotionally, psychologically and spiritually.

I'm no worse off for trying the vegan option. I'm better off. To me it's a no-brainer (cos, well, you know, brains count as animal produce, ask most sausages! )

[Flaccido Dongingo]

I could go vegetarian very easily, but vegan?, I'd miss eggs far too much to be honest.

[jillcwhomever]

That's nasty. Do you put that shit on pizza too, ya freak?!

Nothing wrong with pineapple on pizza, don't be like Andrew Robertson. 

[24/7]

Nothing wrong with pineapple on pizza, don't be like Andrew Robertson. 

I meant beeeeeeeetrooooooot - THAT shit is NASTY, bruh...........

[Chip Evans]

Was a vegetarian from the ages of 16 to 32 - and started eating fish again when we were having trouble when trying to conceive. That started a slippery slope that led back to eating meat for the last 7 or so years.

For the last 18 months we've been sticking rigidly to a 5:2 plan for environmental reasons. We have weans, so we aren't going back veggie full time. But we've found we can do 5 days veggie, it's handy for batch cooking curries etc with everyone in work and school - and it means the kids eat EVERYTHING - there is very little they won't try. At the weekends we spend what we've saved on better quality, well sourced seafood and meat and eat quite well.

I understand the framing of the debate around animal welfare, I was a veggie for long enough, but increasingly come to believe it needs to be framed around consumption, waste and the addiction society has to convenience.  It takes roughly 114 litres of water to create a pint of milk.  It takes 50 times that to farm 1 steak. That's before I start googling energy required, and carbon etc.  Factory farming is one of the worst polluters on the planet and very cruel to the animals involved.

There's no Planet B, we need to cut down as a species.