Topic: Joe Anderson arrested (*)

[TSC]

Labour grapevine busy. Notable part is about Jenrick sending in commissioners.

https://labourlist.org/2020/12/liverpool-will-robert-jenrick-stage-an-intervention/

Think Tower Hamlets had commissioners running how the council spent money on grants, properties, and contracts for about 2 1/2 years not so long back.

Irrespective of what Anderson may or may not have been up to, the irony is heavy as per Jenrick’s involvement.

[Zeb]

Irrespective of what Anderson may or may not have been up to, the irony is heavy as per Jenrick’s involvement.

Strong 'one rule for them' vibes for sure.

Thorp in the Echo confirming that the Labour gossip is accurate.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/pressure-grows-mayor-joe-anderson-19413116

Summary of story is that some in Labour are thinking of threatening to resign to try and force Anderson to resign for his deputy. Has been chat about removing the city mayor office as it is and moving back to council leader as it was. And there are ongoing discussions with Westminster about if/how commissioners are to be brought in to run things.

[AndyInVA]

Joe Anderson has a mate called Derek Hatton, who is 72 and lives in Aigburth.

Confirmed by the BBC that he was arrested too. Can't be too much of a surprise that he has some shady shit in his background.

[CornerFlag]

Are there any details of the nature of the developments that are being scrutinised?

[CraigDS]

Are there any details of the nature of the developments that are being scrutinised?

Apparently planning was rushed through for hundreds of takeaways within 1 mile of his house. All of which are, unsurprisingly, doing great business.

[Zeb]

Are there any details of the nature of the developments that are being scrutinised?

Broad brush strokes of it are in the letter government have sent to the council asking for further information before a decision is taken on whether the government send in commissioners to run things.

The letter states: "Dear Mr Reeves, As you are aware, Merseyside Police have been conducting an investigation which has resulted in a number of arrests made on suspicion of fraud, bribery, corruption and misconduct in public office, in December 2019, in September 2020 and most recently on 4 December 2020 in connection with offences of bribery and witness intimidation.

"This investigation involves a significant connection to Liverpool City Council.

"As you are also aware, the Secretary of State has a range of powers available to him under the Local Government Act 1999 in relation to the ‘Best Value’ duty on councils.

"You met with the Secretary of State at his request on Monday 7 December and gave him a range of assurances about the steps you have taken to improve governance in the Council, to ensure that the Council is now operating properly and in line with the duty."

The letter adds: "Following that conversation, and given the seriousness of the issues, this letter invites your authority to provide by 3pm on 11 December 2020: a) Information about any proposals or plans for your authority to enter into any commitment to dispose of, or otherwise transfer to third parties, or relating to the development of, any real property other than existing domestic property for the purposes of residential accommodation.

"This information should include identifying the property, and indication of its value, and the current position and likely future timetable for the disposal, transfer, or commitment relating to the development of the property.

"b) Information on the steps the authority has taken and proposes to take to secure effective governance, with particular reference to its planning, highways, regeneration and property management functions, and to provide regular updates to the department on these steps."

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/government-demands-information-liverpool-council-19422445

There's obviously others linked to ongoing investigations too.

[Fromola]

I´ve always liked the idea of an independent, non-party affiliated mayor for the city. Not going to happen though, as, as stated, a donkeys arse would win with a Labour rosette.

Voting Labour again and again has not worked well for the city. I don't get the fascination with Labour here.

It's difficult to gauge as the one time the city was really on the up (around the capital of culture year and Liverpool One being built) the Lib Dems were in locally, however it was at least a Labour government. The last 10 years have been a struggle but we've had 10 years of Tory austerity, not that it completely excuses the decade of drift under Anderson which other cities have avoided. Too many stalled developments.

[RainbowFlick]

I am almost certain our local MP (Lib Dems) is also in the pockets of local developers. So much so even our local Tory party seems to be the ones the most vocal at objecting any of the dozens of puzzling new local developments that have been quickly pushed through over both lockdowns.

[RainbowFlick]

Voting Labour again and again has not worked well for the city. I don't get the fascination with Labour here.

It's difficult to gauge as the one time the city was really on the up (around the capital of culture year and Liverpool One being built) the Lib Dems were in locally, however it was at least a Labour government. The last 10 years have been a struggle but we've had 10 years of Tory austerity, not that it completely excuses the decade of drift under Anderson which other cities have avoided. Too many stalled developments.

What is the alternative though? Labour has moved back to the centre-left, the lib dems are the lib dems and the greens would be good but are also possibly a bit ethno-fash. Not a great system we live in at all unfortunately.

[Red Beret]

Liverpool voted in Militant the same time Thatcher won her landslide; when Blair got in, Liverpool switched to Lib Dem.  The city always seems to go against the grain when it comes to politics, but honestly you can go back decades and see the LCC making decisions that were supremely daft in hindsight, especially when it came to heritage.  I don't know how much politics is involved.

I would really like the Greens to get a serious footing in the city, if only to hold Labour to account.  We've been fucked up by all the major parties, so Labour just seem to be in by default right now.  Nobody is offering a credible alternative.

[Fromola]

What is the alternative though? Labour has moved back to the centre-left, the lib dems are the lib dems and the greens would be good but are also possibly a bit ethno-fash. Not a great system we live in at all unfortunately.

I don't like any of them, as someone else said i'd rather an independent who will just do right by the city, away from all the party bollocks.

With Labour here over the years it's been a lot more bad than good. A one party hegemony makes them worse.

[Fromola]

Liverpool voted in Militant the same time Thatcher won her landslide; when Blair got in, Liverpool switched to Lib Dem.  The city always seems to go against the grain when it comes to politics, but honestly you can go back decades and see the LCC making decisions that were supremely daft in hindsight, especially when it came to heritage.  I don't know how much politics is involved.

I would really like the Greens to get a serious footing in the city, if only to hold Labour to account.  We've been fucked up by all the major parties, so Labour just seem to be in by default right now.  Nobody is offering a credible alternative.

And the problem with this, is we never have the ear of government.  The Lib Dems were in power here locally for a while throughout the Labour government years and then when Lib Dems actually got into government we kicked them out in disgrace for doing so. Similar to how Labour were in here locally for the 80s and 90s during the Tory rule and were kicked out when they actually got into government. As a city we don't play politics effectively.

The problem with the Greens is they just oppose every development.

[Red Beret]

And the problem with this, is we never have the ear of government.  The Lib Dems were in power here locally for a while throughout the Labour government years and then when Lib Dems actually got into government we kicked them out in disgrace for doing so. Similar to how Labour were in here locally for the 80s and 90s during the Tory rule and were kicked out when they actually got into government. As a city we don't play politics effectively.

The problem with the Greens is they just oppose every development.

Pretty much this.  No government has had reason to play nice with us because we've always been politically misaligned.

Plus, I'm not saying the Greens should be in power, but I wish they could be a powerful opposition.  If the council became NOC with the Greens as the majority, a coalition might temper their excesses.  That said, they need to show some common sense in the meantime.  We need constructive opposition.

[Fromola]

Pretty much this.  No government has had reason to play nice with us because we've always been politically misaligned.

Plus, I'm not saying the Greens should be in power, but I wish they could be a powerful opposition.  If the council became NOC with the Greens as the majority, a coalition might temper their excesses.  That said, they need to show some common sense in the meantime.  We need constructive opposition.

I agree that's needed but then if the Greens have sway we'd never see anything built. It's bad enough as it is on that score.

[Red Beret]

I agree that's needed but then if the Greens have sway we'd never see anything built. It's bad enough as it is on that score.

That is conjecture.  We know what they say they want to do, but once in office we know how priorities can change.  As things stand, lots of new builds are already struggling to finish, and that's been the case for some time.  If an existing building can be renovated it might offer a better return.

That is, however, a discussion for another topic.

[Black Bull Nova]

I agree that's needed but then if the Greens have sway we'd never see anything built. It's bad enough as it is on that score.

And some of the stuff that has been built could and should have been a lot better and would likely not involve corruption as has been alleged of some others.  Some of the buildings torn down have been scandalous, even recently and turning the bombed out church into a glass roofed gin palace, well.

[12C]

Voting Labour again and again has not worked well for the city. I don't get the fascination with Labour here.

It's difficult to gauge as the one time the city was really on the up (around the capital of culture year and Liverpool One being built) the Lib Dems were in locally, however it was at least a Labour government. The last 10 years have been a struggle but we've had 10 years of Tory austerity, not that it completely excuses the decade of drift under Anderson which other cities have avoided. Too many stalled developments.

The LibDems were the ones who signed everything over to BT.
The BT/LDL shenanigans are still under investigation by the police.

[OOS]

Voting Labour again and again has not worked well for the city. I don't get the fascination with Labour here.

It's difficult to gauge as the one time the city was really on the up (around the capital of culture year and Liverpool One being built) the Lib Dems were in locally, however it was at least a Labour government. The last 10 years have been a struggle but we've had 10 years of Tory austerity, not that it completely excuses the decade of drift under Anderson which other cities have avoided. Too many stalled developments.

Anderson is probably one of the few competent council leaders/ mayors in the North West.

There is a severe lack of talent, due to lack of a funding to attract such people and resources to carry out their jobs. Always one foot forward, two steps back. Constantly fighting fires with the hose in knots.

I've always believed Liverpool to be more 'anti-tory' than 'pro-socialist'. Being a one party city isn't good for local democracy however.

[CraigDS]

Anderson is probably one of the few competent council leaders/ mayors in the North West.

Brave call to make a few days after his arrest....!

[OOS]

I've long said you could stick a red rosette on a chicken in Liverpool and odds are it could get elected.  As much as I love the city's independence, it often seems to cut its nose off to spite it's face when it comes to politics.

Lib dems had 69 ward seats to Labour 29 in 2000. 2000-2006 they had double the seats of Labour, and only lost control in 2010.

[OOS]

Brave call to make a few days after his arrest....!

Was*

 

I think you get the gist of what I'm saying, local government is in a bad way. 

[FlashingBlade]

The thing about the Lib Dems in Liverpool is they are populated by Tories using the party as a flag of convenience knowing full well that as a Tory they have no chance of becoming a councillor.

Kemp is a Tory in my book.

[Red Beret]

Lib dems had 69 ward seats to Labour 29 in 2000. 2000-2006 they had double the seats of Labour, and only lost control in 2010.

2010 is 10 years ago, and I've been on this board for about 9, so my statement "I've long said..." is perfectly valid.

I am well aware of LD control of the city, as I'm well aware that when Militant took over they ended a stretch of Liberal rule dating back to the 60s. It's also notable from what you say that the Liberal Democrats went from having double Labour's seats to losing control in just four years. That's a pretty impressive losing streak.

My mum is 76 and it would be inconceivable for her to vote anything other than red. And I know she's not alone. I've been called a Tory for criticising Joe Anderson. So don't tell me people don't vote blindly.

As OOS says, this city is anti-Tory. I'm not convinced people in Liverpool vote based on the issues facing the city. It always seemed to me that the city goes through a series of political convulsions, like a knee jerk response.

[12C]

The thing about the Lib Dems in Liverpool is they are populated by Tories using the party as a flag of convenience knowing full well that as a Tory they have no chance of becoming a councillor.

Kemp is a Tory in my book.

When the LibDems were wiped out, a lot of them set off  to join the Greens. I know of at least one ex libdem councillor who was hoping to get nominated as a green. As for Kemp, sky blue Tory alright.

[WhoHe]

Hated, neglected and ignored by Tory governments and taken for granted by Labour one(s). Labour done nothing for the Hillsborough cause and though we hate to admit it was the tories who gave us the new inquest and subsequent justice, belatedly.
But as has been stated - what is the option ? For the elected Major role surely there must be someone who could stand as an independent that is respected and has the vital business acumen, can't think of one myself though.

Always remember Jack Straw when he was Home Secretary saying "Well you know Scousers they are always up to something", these are the stereotypes that all Scousers have to face whenever we venture outside Liverpool and constantly in the media. Fat Joe/Redrow Joe/Chippy Tits has just given our detractors plenty more ammo regardless of the legal outcome.

[Zeb]

Wendy Simon is the new acting mayor of Liverpool.

After several days of silence, Mayor Anderson has announced today that he will be stepping aside from his position while the investigation into him continues.

This means that Deputy Mayor Wendy Simon, a councillor for Kensington and Fairfield, will become the defacto Mayor of Liverpool and leader of the city.

In his statement, released today, Mayor Anderson said: "I have always done what I believe is best for the city, and I am taking the following action with those best intentions in mind.

"It is important that everyone in Liverpool knows that our leaders are focussed on what is most important to the people; their livelihoods and, with a pandemic still in force, their lives.

"For this reason, I believe it is important that the city, and government, are reassured that our city is indeed operating in the correct way.

"I am, therefore, stepping away from decision-making within the council through a period of unpaid leave, until the police make clear their intentions with the investigation on the 31st December.

"I will make a further statement at that point. Wendy Simon will be acting as Mayor and I have all faith that she will provide the leadership our city requires at this time.

"The arrest on Friday has also been a painful shock for me and my family, following a difficult few months. I need to focus on their future and returning to a normal they can recognise, with the reassurance that I am no longer under suspicion.

"Therefore I am going to focus on co-operating with the police in their ongoing inquiry, as I believe time will make it clear that I have no case to answer.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/joe-anderson-steps-aside-mayor-19425317

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

To all those complaining from the outside about the people put up by the various parties, the answer is to join the party (whichever one you naturally align with) and fight for competence and decent candidates from the inside. Drag them (kicking and screaming if necessary) towards the centre ground and away from the extremes. If you're not on the inside, you cannot enact any change.

[Red Beret]

To all those complaining from the outside about the people put up by the various parties, the answer is to join the party (whichever one you naturally align with) and fight for competence and decent candidates from the inside. Drag them (kicking and screaming if necessary) towards the centre ground and away from the extremes. If you're not on the inside, you cannot enact any change.

It's a nice idea but if it was feasible something would have changed long before now? I think it's more likely that opinions will be rode roughshod over and people shouted down. You would have a hard job convincing people this would lead to real change, and it's more likely the wrong people will join, or they'll join for the wrong reasons.

Like I said, I don't think people really look at the issues in this city.

[HomesickRed]

Hated, neglected and ignored by Tory governments and taken for granted by Labour one(s). Labour done nothing for the Hillsborough cause and though we hate to admit it was the tories who gave us the new inquest and subsequent justice, belatedly.
But as has been stated - what is the option ? For the elected Major role surely there must be someone who could stand as an independent that is respected and has the vital business acumen, can't think of one myself though.

Always remember Jack Straw when he was Home Secretary saying "Well you know Scousers they are always up to something", these are the stereotypes that all Scousers have to face whenever we venture outside Liverpool and constantly in the media. Fat Joe/Redrow Joe/Chippy Tits has just given our detractors plenty more ammo regardless of the legal outcome.

Sadly, we do always seem to be out of step with national politics, and it hurt the city no end.
Unfortunately, far too many people would vote Labour even if the Labour Party pissed all over us.
The Tories on the other hand, wouldn't piss on us if we were on fire.
To be useful on a national scale, we need to be marginal so that we cannot be ignored at national level. Manchester is generally red, but not solidly so and has far more marginal seats that the Tories at least think they are in with a chance of winning.
It is a shame, because for the last 25 years or more, Liverpool has barely put a foot wrong. Unfortunately due to poor leadership and a low level of political importance, investment into the city and a resultant confidence has been very low and pales in comparison to our neighbours up the M 62.

[Millie]

Hated, neglected and ignored by Tory governments and taken for granted by Labour one(s). Labour done nothing for the Hillsborough cause and though we hate to admit it was the tories who gave us the new inquest and subsequent justice, belatedly.
But as has been stated - what is the option ? For the elected Major role surely there must be someone who could stand as an independent that is respected and has the vital business acumen, can't think of one myself though.

Always remember Jack Straw when he was Home Secretary saying "Well you know Scousers they are always up to something", these are the stereotypes that all Scousers have to face whenever we venture outside Liverpool and constantly in the media. Fat Joe/Redrow Joe/Chippy Tits has just given our detractors plenty more ammo regardless of the legal outcome.

It was the Labour Government who set up the Hillsborough Independent Panel.  The Tories had no choice but to order a new Inquiry, after that Panel's findings.

[WhoHe]

They were in power for 13 long years, they did the bare minimum as far I remember but you support them all you want.

[Millie]

They were in power for 13 long years, they did the bare minimum as far I remember but you support them all you want.

They did not do the bare minimum. They set up the Independent panel.

It may have taken a long time but it was labour who set up the panel. Do you seriously believe the Tory’s would have done that?  It was Andy Burnham, after the 20th anniversary memorial service who got the ball rolling. Gordon Brown gave the go ahead. What followed was unprecedented. The panel left no stone unturned. But by all means if you want to call that a “bare minimum”  then do carry on.

[WhoHe]

They did not do the bare minimum. They set up the Independent panel.

It may have taken a long time but it was labour who set up the panel. Do you seriously believe the Tory’s would have done that?  It was Andy Burnham, after the 20th anniversary memorial service who got the ball rolling. Gordon Brown gave the go ahead. What followed was unprecedented. The panel left no stone unturned. But by all means if you want to call that a “bare minimum”  then do carry on.

I was at the memorial service when he was shamed into doing something, never seen a politician look so awkward and shocked when the fan - off the top of my head I can't remember his name - slaughtered him in front of thousands. He came for a bit of nice/cheap publicity and left with his tail between his legs.
The HIP was set up in December 2009, Labour was out by May 2010 looked a little last minute to me.
 
Jack Straw also apologised for the Stuart-Smith "review" of Hillsborough of 1997 so that hardly supports a case for how determined and doggedly they helped our cause, the only constant support came from the city itself.

Anyway I'm sidetracking the thread, the point I was making is we are taken for granted by Labour and we were at best treated shabbily over the Hillsborough campaign for justice by the Labour establishment who I honestly thought would fight tooth and nail to get to the real truth.

[Millie]

I was at the memorial service when he was shamed into doing something, never seen a politician look so awkward and shocked when the fan - off the top of my head I can't remember his name - slaughtered him in front of thousands. He came for a bit of nice/cheap publicity and left with his tail between his legs.
The HIP was set up in December 2009, Labour was out by May 2010 looked a little last minute to me.
 
Jack Straw also apologised for the Stuart-Smith "review" of Hillsborough of 1997 so that hardly supports a case for how determined and doggedly they helped our cause, the only constant support came from the city itself.

Anyway I'm sidetracking the thread, the point I was making is we are taken for granted by Labour and we were at best treated shabbily over the Hillsborough campaign for justice by the Labour establishment who I honestly thought would fight tooth and nail to get to the real truth.

I was in the Northern General Hospital on 15 April 1989. My husband was seriously injured at Hillsborough. I agree in 1997 I thought Labour would do more immediately. I don’t agree Andy Burnham was at the service for some cheap publicity. He was shocked though at the vitriol from the Kop that day, I agree.

In short, do I wish Labour had acted sooner, absolutely but to say they did the “bare minimum when they did act is just wrong.

[ljycb]

I was at the memorial service when he was shamed into doing something, never seen a politician look so awkward and shocked when the fan - off the top of my head I can't remember his name - slaughtered him in front of thousands. He came for a bit of nice/cheap publicity and left with his tail between his legs.
The HIP was set up in December 2009, Labour was out by May 2010 looked a little last minute to me.
 
Jack Straw also apologised for the Stuart-Smith "review" of Hillsborough of 1997 so that hardly supports a case for how determined and doggedly they helped our cause, the only constant support came from the city itself.

Anyway I'm sidetracking the thread, the point I was making is we are taken for granted by Labour and we were at best treated shabbily over the Hillsborough campaign for justice by the Labour establishment who I honestly thought would fight tooth and nail to get to the real truth.

I’m not the biggest fan of Burnham at all but there is not a chance that I would question his sincerity over his want for justice. Sure, he attended that memorial service as a member of the government and perhaps thought his day would involve saying what he had to say and then getting out of there, but the fact of the matter is he listened as his speech was drowned out by calls for justice and from that moment on he did everything that he could for the families. There are plenty of Labour people who deserve nothing but our venom for their lack of support to the families and the survivors, but Andy Burnham is not one of them.

[Red Beret]

I've long held the belief that the Labour government decided to try and bury Hillsborough under pressure from senior police officials and dire warnings of "undermining public trust" in the constabulary if the false narrative they had sought to promote was challenged.

I'm grateful they got the ball rolling, but more should have been done by Labour, and sooner. It's mad that it was left to the fucking Tories to see it through.

[John C]

Way off topic now guys.

[ljycb]

Way off topic now guys.

Sorry John 👍🏼

[zadoktBeast]

Would love to know more about which specific developments this is all about. Derek Hatton being involved is interesting as I remember he was doing some PR for the Iliad construction company a while back.

My mate made a good point the other day about the general corruption of local politics throughout the country -  basically he said that nowadays no building goes up without some kind of backsliding somewhere (notwithstanding that physical coercion threats are much more serious).

I know he's a Blue etc etc but I've never got  much of a corrupt vibe from Big Joe.

It'd be funny though if they make him do a week's sentence in Prince Rupert's Tower 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You'd have to knock it down and rebuild it around him.

I'd happily do it for curry sauce and chips.