Topic: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)

[Something Worse]

The Revival just got released by WWE.  Should be an interesting pick-up by AEW.

This slow bleeding of never gonna bes is pretty solid strategy on old Vinnie's part. Just bloat that AEW payroll with guys who the hardcores demand and the casuals don't want to see.

I still can't believe they've got Harper doing Billionaire Ted skits in 2020.

[El Lobo]

It’s a great idea, which is surprising considering he doesn’t have many these days.

‘Wait, no! Bah god almighty!! It’s Joey Abs!! Joey Abs is here in the impact zone!!!’

[Something Worse]

It’s a great idea, which is surprising considering he doesn’t have many these days.

‘Wait, no! Bah god almighty!! It’s Joey Abs!! Joey Abs is here in the impact zone!!!’

The Perfect Ten guy, only more talented

[Stockholm Syndrome]

XFL has been cancelled again

[LiamG]

Anyone watch the Edge documentary ?? thought it was really good to be honest the build up behind the scenes and how he wanted to keep his return secret because there is never any surprises in WWE anymore, which is true!

[kloppagetime]

Harper sucks being honest and him doing this exhalted one character has completely turned me off AEW, never been a fan of broken Matt either just find the character completely cringey.

If AEW is gonna sign every WWE lower card talent under the sun then they will always be considered a B rate company.

[Riquende]

Harper sucks being honest and him doing this exhalted one character has completely turned me off AEW, never been a fan of broken Matt either just find the character completely cringey.

If AEW is gonna sign every WWE lower card talent under the sun then they will always be considered a B rate company.

Indeed, as demonstrated by Vince himself when he poached such lower card talents as 'Jean-Paul Levesque' and 'Stunning Steve Austin' from 1995's major player WCW, or even the sure-to-be-perennial-no-hoper 'Mean Mark Callous' 5 years earlier. I'd sure love to know what happened to those guys.

I will agree that I don't particularly enjoy Matt Hardy's persona, I was linked to his stuff a few years ago by a friend who's a very enthusiastic fan and just don't get the appeal, cringey is a good term for it. AEW have largely stayed away from 'hokey' stuff in their first year (when Dark Order first debuted they did the "power over the arena lights" gimmick) so it seems a bit incongruous; I will admit I've enjoyed Jericho's part in it though, especially his interactions with a drone.

Speaking of Dark Order, I'm back to very confused at how their story is playing out now the Exalted One is about, I know Brodie Lee wasn't their first choice, and I know that restrictions are in place that limits what they can do and who they can use, but we're now seemingly into a 3rd iteration of what the Dark Order is. I guess the fans haven't really bought into either of the first two though, maybe making them a cheap shot at Vince is the way to go...

Still, plenty more positives than negatives at the moment.

[Something Worse]

Brodie Lee isn't Austin, Triple H or Taker, come on. He's not even Kane. He's just a guy.

Ambrose is the big steal. The rest are just taking up space.

[Riquende]

Brodie Lee isn't Austin, Triple H or Taker, come on. He's not even Kane. He's just a guy.

"Hunter Hearst Helmsley isn't Hogan, Flair or Savage, come on. He's not even Sting. He's just a guy." - a quote I definitely remember on the internet from 1995.

Look, I'm not defending or promoting Lee. I've got no real idea who he is as I don't watch WWE, but that wasn't what I was saying - he, or anyone else making a the switch won't definitely become a megastar. I'm just saying that bad booking can stymie talent in their early career and it's unfair to write someone off as 'lower card' forever, and that employing such like from another roster isn't dooming you to being considered a B rate company, as WWE saw when Austin and (slightly later) HHH were key fixtures in the Attitude Era and beyond.

[tubby]

I'm gonna ignore all the usual tedious baiting from Claus and Lobo.

Anyone watch the Edge documentary ?? thought it was really good to be honest the build up behind the scenes and how he wanted to keep his return secret because there is never any surprises in WWE anymore, which is true!

Yep, this was a really good watch.  They're usually excellent, these type of documentary shows from WWE, and Edge is a likeable guy (even though I've never really been into him as a wrestler).  Just hope his neck holds up, gotta expect he's only got a limited run in him after all that surgery.

[El Lobo]

I'm gonna ignore all the usual tedious baiting from Claus and Lobo.

What tedious baiting?

Jericho and Ambrose were both pretty big pick ups considering how over they were (or had been). The rest really haven’t. If you told Vince that their biggest rivals would have picked up Cody Rhodes, Golddust, Luke Harper, Jack Swagger, Matt Hardy, Neville and Tye Dillinger he’d probably have laughed in your face (although he probably would anyway).

You can only pop the ‘hottest free agent’ card so many times, and only really if it’s actually a big name. Matt Hardy doing the same shtick he was doing in TNA four years ago is pretty lame, although I’m sure him and Jericho will put on some stupid shit which will be worth watching.

I get the need to build a roster but these lower mid carders coming over from WWE (when it’s shit) and being put straight into big storylines in AEW isn’t a great look. It’s pretty much exactly what TNA did, except replace Jericho and Ambrose with Christian and Kurt Angle.

[tubby]

What tedious baiting?

Jericho and Ambrose were both pretty big pick ups considering how over they were (or had been). The rest really haven’t. If you told Vince that their biggest rivals would have picked up Cody Rhodes, Golddust, Luke Harper, Jack Swagger, Matt Hardy, Neville and Tye Dillinger he’d probably have laughed in your face (although he probably would anyway).

You can only pop the ‘hottest free agent’ card so many times, and only really if it’s actually a big name. Matt Hardy doing the same shtick he was doing in TNA four years ago is pretty lame, although I’m sure him and Jericho will put on some stupid shit which will be worth watching.

I get the need to build a roster but these lower mid carders coming over from WWE (when it’s shit) and being put straight into big storylines in AEW isn’t a great look. It’s pretty much exactly what TNA did, except replace Jericho and Ambrose with Christian and Kurt Angle.

Considered and sensible debate.

It’s a great idea, which is surprising considering he doesn’t have many these days.

‘Wait, no! Bah god almighty!! It’s Joey Abs!! Joey Abs is here in the impact zone!!!’

Tedious baiting.

[El Lobo]

It’s a thread about men in pants pretending to fight each other mate It’s not to be taken seriously.

[Samie]

Wrestling is serious business Lobo. 

[Stockholm Syndrome]

So Vince is decided to go back to live shows, despite the pandemic, apparently because the TV deals only allow so many taped shows (which is assigned for Christmas and UK shows). Basically if they have any more taped shoes the TV companies may withhold money, and when they  haven't got ticket sales, and the stick plummeting, they kinda need it.

When asked by authorities they are to say they are "essential media".

Some wrestlers not happy apparently (a lot of them don't live in Florida and will have to travel there through the pandemic), and then I am actually unsure if they will be able to do it with Florida's quarantine.

[kloppagetime]

What tedious baiting?

Jericho and Ambrose were both pretty big pick ups considering how over they were (or had been). The rest really haven’t. If you told Vince that their biggest rivals would have picked up Cody Rhodes, Golddust, Luke Harper, Jack Swagger, Matt Hardy, Neville and Tye Dillinger he’d probably have laughed in your face (although he probably would anyway).

You can only pop the ‘hottest free agent’ card so many times, and only really if it’s actually a big name. Matt Hardy doing the same shtick he was doing in TNA four years ago is pretty lame, although I’m sure him and Jericho will put on some stupid shit which will be worth watching.

I get the need to build a roster but these lower mid carders coming over from WWE (when it’s shit) and being put straight into big storylines in AEW isn’t a great look. It’s pretty much exactly what TNA did, except replace Jericho and Ambrose with Christian and Kurt Angle.

Great post 100% facts, when WCW we're signing WWF stars in the 90s it was the biggest names in the industry. Brodie Lee and Matt Hardy won't be putting any butts in seats any time soon.

[Something Worse]

"Hunter Hearst Helmsley isn't Hogan, Flair or Savage, come on. He's not even Sting. He's just a guy." - a quote I definitely remember on the internet from 1995.

Look, I'm not defending or promoting Lee. I've got no real idea who he is as I don't watch WWE, but that wasn't what I was saying - he, or anyone else making a the switch won't definitely become a megastar. I'm just saying that bad booking can stymie talent in their early career and it's unfair to write someone off as 'lower card' forever, and that employing such like from another roster isn't dooming you to being considered a B rate company, as WWE saw when Austin and (slightly later) HHH were key fixtures in the Attitude Era and beyond.

There's a big difference between a guy with the raw materials who hasn't figured it out yet and a guy who doesn't have it.

How long have we all been watching this nonsense? 20 years+ I'm betting for everyone posting in here, probably more. How many Triple H/Austins have there been? Even if you stretch that out to mean "underutilized guy who made it big somewhere else". Maybe Christian? I don't think AJ counts since his WWE/WCW runs were so brief and irrelevant to his career.

For every Triple H there's ten guys that didn't make it and didn't have it. Shawn Spears. Jack Swagger. Damien Sandow. Even Matt Hardy didn't really succeed the way Christian did, he just got internet famous.

The problem these days is nobody can just be a good dude doing his job well. Austin was signed as a midcarder, to be a midcarder. He broke out because he was insanely talented, got an unplanned opportunity and took it. That doesn't mean that everybody else has that potential. Take The Revival. Solid tag guys, rightfully compared to Arn and Tully. That's a great spot to be in and they'd have a job for life if they wanted it. Instead they leave. They'll have their big match with the Bucks and then what? Their ceiling is exactly where they were. They weren't held down or stifled. They're just guys who exist. Same with Spears and Swagger. Not everyone is Austin. The vast majority are Scotty 2 Hotty picking up a paycheck for 10 years and then retiring. Or Bob Holly, doing the same but for 20 years.

[Riquende]

Great post 100% facts, when WCW we're signing WWF stars in the 90s it was the biggest names in the industry. Brodie Lee and Matt Hardy won't be putting any butts in seats any time soon.

And when WWF were signing WCW midcarders at the same time, they were putting into place some of the seeds of their next golden age, one that saw them so dominant they bought and killed the competition. Meanwhile those stars who had gone the other way started getting on in age, had massive egos and were on massive contracts.

I'm finding it utterly bizarre that on a Liverpool forum of all places people are completely downplaying the idea of doing better and being smarter with what you have rather than throwing money at big names for success.

[Riquende]

Austin was signed as a midcarder, to be a midcarder. He broke out because he was insanely talented, got an unplanned opportunity and took it. That doesn't mean that everybody else has that potential.

Baffling that you think my stance is that everybody has that potential, when all I'm saying is that anyone could have it, and dismissing any new arrival as an automatic failure isn't sensible. As you say, all it can require is taking an unplanned opportunity so that the talent of the perceived midcarder is suddenly obvious.

I've wasted enough time of this glorious day pointing out that midcarders occasionally improve their game beyond where most people originally saw their career going. I'll back after Dynamite, should nothing particularly exciting happen on Being the Elite or Dark.

[Something Worse]

Baffling that you think my stance is that everybody has that potential, when all I'm saying is that anyone could have it, and dismissing any new arrival as an automatic failure isn't sensible. As you say, all it can require is taking an unplanned opportunity so that the talent of the perceived midcarder is suddenly obvious.

I've wasted enough time of this glorious day pointing out that midcarders occasionally improve their game beyond where most people originally saw their career going. I'll back after Dynamite, should nothing particularly exciting happen on Being the Elite or Dark.

Fair enough. All I'll add is that Austin in ECW showed his potential. Flair was furious when he found out Hunter was leaving. People saw it with those two. Everyone knew Jericho would be a star. I don't think anybody thinks that about Brodie Lee or Shawn Spears or whoever else

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Fair enough. All I'll add is that Austin in ECW showed his potential. Flair was furious when he found out Hunter was leaving. People saw it with those two. Everyone knew Jericho would be a star. I don't think anybody thinks that about Brodie Lee or Shawn Spears or whoever else

Shawn Spears is a midcarder and to be fair, AEW are treating him as such. A good had to put on a stable match and put someone over.

Brodie Lee is a good worker and can be a monster. That's what they are doing with him, and he will be built to put someone over. He doesn't mind that either so long as he is doing something before he retires quite soon.

Hardy is a big name for the snarks, and a recognisable name for the casuals. If used sparingly and properly he can be a good asset.

Revival are a very good tag team, and will fit in well in a company with probably the best tag team action around.

Someone used the Liverpool comment before and I think that fits. These aren't your Salah's or VVD's, or Alison's, these are your Miners, and Origi's, and Shaqiri's. Good layering, depth, perhaps even great when utilised well.

Ambrose, Jericho, Omega, Cody, to some degree Archer etc are there stars to build around, plus those who seem to be growing  for the future (Allin, MJF, Guevara, Shida, Baker and Riho for the women). They will get more big names I think, particularly with women wrestlers, but right now they are building something pretty great I think

[Sheer Magnetism]

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Dynamite is barely six months old and it doesn't have to destroy WWE, it simply has to present itself as a viable alternative while keeping viewers steady. The rest will take care of itself. WWE viewership has continued to fall, live attendance had been plummeting before the pandemic and AEW has a younger and more hardcore audience who enjoy the product they put out (as opposed to "being bored by the roster and annoyed by the booking"). Unless something dramatic changes, AEW will keep growing and WWE will keep shrinking.

The other thing of course is that the more talented wrestlers are the ones who are more likely to care about booking and creative freedom over their character, which is what they can get in AEW to some extent. That's also why the ones looking to jump will probably be the fan favourites rather than Randy Orton or Roman Reigns. I get why no one's excited about Spears or Lee but I can see there being some bigger defections in the next 12-to-18 months as more contracts start running down. Especially in NXT.

[OsirisMVZ]

They didn't need to do it, and it took away from it all, with melodramatic acting shouting out the themes of the feud (in some cases literally) in case you didn't get it

FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE JEDI ARE EVIL

[Something Worse]

Shawn Spears is a midcarder and to be fair, AEW are treating him as such. A good had to put on a stable match and put someone over.

Brodie Lee is a good worker and can be a monster. That's what they are doing with him, and he will be built to put someone over. He doesn't mind that either so long as he is doing something before he retires quite soon.

Hardy is a big name for the snarks, and a recognisable name for the casuals. If used sparingly and properly he can be a good asset.

Revival are a very good tag team, and will fit in well in a company with probably the best tag team action around.

Someone used the Liverpool comment before and I think that fits. These aren't your Salah's or VVD's, or Alison's, these are your Miners, and Origi's, and Shaqiri's. Good layering, depth, perhaps even great when utilised well.

Ambrose, Jericho, Omega, Cody, to some degree Archer etc are there stars to build around, plus those who seem to be growing  for the future (Allin, MJF, Guevara, Shida, Baker and Riho for the women). They will get more big names I think, particularly with women wrestlers, but right now they are building something pretty great I think

Fans think everyone is held down. Look how many people think The Revival have been freed. There's one match out there for them that anyone cares about. When that's done they'll just be another tag team like they were in WWE, I assume making less money too. Brodie Lee and Spears were the same. Nobody is ever just "a guy" any more and it's weird.

To expand upon the Liverpool analogy: Brodie Lee is Alberto Aquilani. He's got all the hype and excitement of a better player, but has nowhere near the talent to match that hype.

Spears is Spearing hahaha (no offence to Jay), perfectly capable lower league talent but not a guy you can use in a top team.

And that's the issue. Everyone is being treated like a potential star held down by big bad Vince, but then they get out from under him and they're doing Vince parodies or whatever the fuck that dumb Jericho segment was with Hardy, and it's almost like these people are just as weird and goofy as Vince is.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Dynamite is barely six months old and it doesn't have to destroy WWE, it simply has to present itself as a viable alternative while keeping viewers steady. The rest will take care of itself. WWE viewership has continued to fall, live attendance had been plummeting before the pandemic and AEW has a younger and more hardcore audience who enjoy the product they put out (as opposed to "being bored by the roster and annoyed by the booking"). Unless something dramatic changes, AEW will keep growing and WWE will keep shrinking.

The other thing of course is that the more talented wrestlers are the ones who are more likely to care about booking and creative freedom over their character, which is what they can get in AEW to some extent. That's also why the ones looking to jump will probably be the fan favourites rather than Randy Orton or Roman Reigns. I get why no one's excited about Spears or Lee but I can see there being some bigger defections in the next 12-to-18 months as more contracts start running down. Especially in NXT.

I think AEW is already more or less exactly where they'll stay now. Just under a million viewers, succeeding without really challenging in any way. They're in that TNA niche where they sorta bounce around a rating number, and don't really get much more or less than that. Adding talent won't change that - they won't get anyone bigger than Ambrose going forward.

[Buggy Eyes Alfredo]

I'm gonna ignore all the usual tedious baiting from Claus and Lobo.

You failed!

[ToneLa]

WWE's statement on why they're running live shows again is something else

We believe it is now more important than ever to provide people with a diversion from these hard times. We are producing content on a closed set with only essential personnel in attendance following appropriate guidelines while taking additional precautions to ensure the health and wellness of our performers and staff. As a brand that has been woven into the fabric of society, WWE and its Superstars bring families together and deliver a sense of hope, determination and perseverance.

As a brand that has been woven into the fabric of society,

As a brand that has been woven into the fabric of society,

 

[ScouserAtHeart]

Ronda Rousey whining about quitting because of "ungrateful fans"

[I've been a good boy]

Ronda Rousey whining about quitting because of "ungrateful fans"

I've never watched any of her matches but what ungrateful fans is she talking about? From what I read online, she always got a good pop and was booked well?

Be good if she pissed off. Never liked her in the UFC either, whiny little brat who couldn't take the heat after losing to two superior fighters.

[CornerFlag]

Taz just ripped the McMahons as well.

[Samie]

Vince in bed with Trumpy? 

WWE deemed an essential service, returns to live televised shows https://cnn.it/34AOkdX

[gazzalfc]

I get it from a business sense. FOX and USA have contracts for 50 live shows a year. WWE dont follow through on that then they are liable to losing their biggest cash cow at a time where they cant sell tickets, merch or PPV's.

Doubt that will be any consolation to Daniel Bryan with his newly pregnant wife and the current roster member that has it.

I reckon we're about 2 months away from them flying the entire locker room out to Saudi Arabia and doing shows from there.

[Tonyh8su]

I reckon we're about 2 months away from them flying the entire locker room out to Saudi Arabia and doing shows from there.

You can be guaranteed this will be happening.

[Something Worse]

AEW's doing it too for their next PPV. I genuinely don't think either company would come through this otherwise.

Not that that makes it right, of course, but I can see why they're doing it.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

AEW's doing it too for their next PPV. I genuinely don't think either company would come through this otherwise.

Not that that makes it right, of course, but I can see why they're doing it.

Are they? I know they recorded Dynamite up to Mid-May and then the PPV is being advertised but I thought it was subject to the law letting them do it


Edit: Ah just seen it announced now

[Alan_X]

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=240892.0

[gazzalfc]

So Vince McMahon went all Thanos yesterday

WWE has come to terms on the release of Kurt Angle, Rusev (Miroslav Barnyashev), Drake Maverick (James Curtin), Zack Ryder (Matthew Cardona), Curt Hawkins (Brian Myers), Karl Anderson (Chad Allegra), Luke Gallows (Drew Hankinson), Heath Slater (Heath Miller), Eric Young (Jeremy Fritz), Rowan (Joseph Ruud), Sarah Logan (Sarah Rowe), No Way Jose (Levis Valenzuela), Mike Chioda, Mike Kanellis (Mike Bennett), Maria Kanellis, EC3 (Michael Hutter), Aiden English (Matthew Rehwoldt), Lio Rush (Lionel Green), Primo (Edwin Colon) and Epico (Orlando Colon Nieves). We wish them all the best in their future endeavors

Backstage producers Finlay, Lance Storm, Divari, and Shane Helms have also gone as well.

Gallows and Anderson had just signed a big money contract a few weeks ago and referee Mike Chioda had been WWEs longest serving current employee having been there since the 80's.

[Something Worse]

Now is the time to set up a union. They'll never have more leverage.

[OsirisMVZ]

Chioda was the biggest shock out of all the firings as he's been there forever!

I hope Rusev goes to NJPW for a bit as I think he's a monster waiting to have his potential unlocked like Moxley last year.

OC of Anderson and Gallows probably have AEW contracts with their names on them already. Them and The Revival will give AEW such a deep deep tag division.

TNA and ROH need new talent so bad so there'll be quite a few people getting hired when this is all over and companies can resume shows again.

Fit Finlay is the best womens trainer in the West, he is the reason why WWE now have women wrestlers on the level of Asuka, Io and Kairi so he will be a huge huge BTS get for whoever picks him up.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

So after spending 18 million to do live shows again, Vince sacks all these people, plus undoubtedly many more off screen talent, when he is not cash poor, all to save a few bucks.

Vince is putting Mike Ashley to shame here in terms of scumbag owner tactics

[tubby]

There's a couple of decent pick ups in there for AEW but not a lot to choose from.  Lio Rush, Rusev, Sarah Logan and Ruby are the only ones I'd be interested in seeing there, maybe Spud as well as a mouthpiece for someone. Looks like there might be more cuts coming from NXT and Smackdown this week.

Tough for the talents involved.