Topic: Chinese Mass Internment Camps

[cdav]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/24/china-cables-leak-no-escapes-reality-china-uighur-prison-camp

'Allow no escapes': leak exposes reality of China's vast prison camp network

Documents confirm largest mass incarceration of an ethnic-religious minority since second world war

This is absolutely terrible and really worrying how effectively they have managed to conceal it. Its a cultural genocide to destroy a large ethnic minorities identity

[Red-Soldier]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/24/china-cables-leak-no-escapes-reality-china-uighur-prison-camp

'Allow no escapes': leak exposes reality of China's vast prison camp network

Documents confirm largest mass incarceration of an ethnic-religious minority since second world war

This is absolutely terrible and really worrying how effectively they have managed to conceal it. Its a cultural genocide to destroy a large ethnic minorities identity

It is, but nobody will do anything about it.

[TepidT2O]

It is perhaps the worst crime in the world right now....

And yet no one is speaking out...

[redmark]

It is perhaps the worst crime in the world right now....

And yet no one is speaking out...

They make stuff. We buy stuff.

[OneTouchFooty]

Really fucking awful but the Chinese don't give a shit about the horrendous things they do. Zero respect for human rights, animal rights or the environment. Worrying that this dictatorship will be the wealthiest and most powerful country on the planet in the next decade.

[vagabond]

Genuinely despicable.

[GreatEx]

Really fucking awful but the Chinese don't give a shit about the horrendous things they do. Zero respect for human rights, animal rights or the environment. Worrying that this dictatorship will be the wealthiest and most powerful country on the planet in the next decade.

Yep, and another 4 years of Trump will weaken and isolate the US to leave China as the clear #1 influencer. I know we all have misgivings about US foreign policy but we should not be indifferent to the shocking alternative.

[TepidT2O]

They make stuff. We buy stuff.

They are also too big to threaten effectively

[Kashinoda]

It is perhaps the worst crime in the world right now....

And yet no one is speaking out...

BBC to their credit cover it a lot. When they're not editing Johnson to make him look good that is

What China are doing is modern day ethnic cleansing. The Uighur population stand no chance, they're isolated and alone.

It's vile.

[Gnurglan]

They really have some nasty stuff going on. Apparently China sell organs, probably coming from people who sit in what needs to be described as concentrarion camps.

[lobsterboy]

This is nazi level stuff.  Can the world really justify sitting by and letting this happen?

[Red-Soldier]

This is nazi level stuff.  Can the world really justify sitting by and letting this happen?

Yep.  They are one of the worlds biggest economies and have a huge military.  Nothing will happen.

[Bobsackamano]

This is nazi level stuff.  Can the world really justify sitting by and letting this happen?

No one can do anything about it. Fuck all. Zip. Nada.

This article about a round the world cycling trip gives a first hand insight into the grip China has imposed on its Muslim areas.... 1984 stuff.

https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/long-reads/travel-around-world-bike-solo-uighur-muslims-every-continent-cycle-a9204211.html

[drmick]

This is nazi level stuff.  Can the world really justify sitting by and letting this happen?

Have to sort out anti-semitism in the Labour party first, like.

[classycarra]

Have to sort out anti-semitism in the Labour party first, like.

What a pathetic weaselly comment. We get it, you don't think jews concerns matter because they are "tiny".

By the way, Corbyn thinks people like you are a part of the problem:

It is wrong to deny there is antisemitism in the Labour Party. And those who deny that it does exist are part of the problem

source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-antisemitism-meeting-shadow-cabinet-a9016351.html

What changed from when you made this post, why are you now dragging it up as a cheap joke in other threads:

I am of the opinion the anti-Semitism discussion belongs in its own thread, and certainly not this one. I'm not interested in it, but am very interested in the election otherwise. I realise I am contributing to its persistence though despite my own preference, so for that reason I am now bowing out of any future debate about it.

[Son of Spion]

This is nazi level stuff.  Can the world really justify sitting by and letting this happen?

I saw a BBC report by Panorama's Richard Bilton on this last night.

Truly horrific stuff.

[Linudden]

Unless there's a coordinated embargo on Chinese products to be sold in the West this won't stop and the wealthy are too greedy for that ever to happen. The Chinese government are destroying the planet with their emissions and are continuing to treat its regional minorities atrociously. Someone has to say enough and stop trading with them.

[lobsterboy]

Unless there's a coordinated embargo on Chinese products to be sold in the West this won't stop and the wealthy are too greedy for that ever to happen. The Chinese government are destroying the planet with their emissions and are continuing to treat its regional minorities atrociously. Someone has to say enough and stop trading with them.

Money talks. Greed will always win.

[Bobsackamano]

I dont think we can really bring CO2 emissions into this, the UK record, whilst improving, is historically a terrible one and Chinas emissions per capita are still well behind many Western countries. A lot of the CO2 emissions also comes from producing goods which we then use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

[Linudden]

I dont think we can really bring CO2 emissions into this, the UK record, whilst improving, is historically a terrible one and Chinas emissions per capita are still well behind many Western countries. A lot of the CO2 emissions also comes from producing goods which we then use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

Still:

China 8.0
UK 5.6
Sweden 4.5 (my country)

Since China is vastly overpopulated, the raw emissions and thus the real-time footprint is the real problem here. They and the Americans are the worst on that front, no contest.

It's not just Co2 they're dumping either, they have some of the worst air pollution in the whole world through no environmental regulation. It's beyond me why anyone in any Green party still advocates trade with China.

[Elmo!]

Still:

China 8.0
UK 5.6
Sweden 4.5 (my country)

Since China is vastly overpopulated, the raw emissions and thus the real-time footprint is the real problem here. They and the Americans are the worst on that front, no contest.

It's not just Co2 they're dumping either, they have some of the worst air pollution in the whole world through no environmental regulation. It's beyond me why anyone in any Green party still advocates trade with China.

What percentage of their emissions come from manufacturing stuff for the west? We have offloaded our emissions on to them.

[Bobsackamano]

Still:

China 8.0
UK 5.6
Sweden 4.5 (my country)

Since China is vastly overpopulated, the raw emissions and thus the real-time footprint is the real problem here. They and the Americans are the worst on that front, no contest.

It's not just Co2 they're dumping either, they have some of the worst air pollution in the whole world through no environmental regulation. It's beyond me why anyone in any Green party still advocates trade with China.

Australia 16.8
Canada 16
Finland 8.8
Iceland 12.1
United States 16.1

Should we stop trading with these countries because of CO2 emissions, all higher than China?

[Linudden]

Australia 16.8
Canada 16
Finland 8.8
Iceland 12.1
United States 16.1

Should we stop trading with these countries because of CO2 emissions, all higher than China?

US is a problem, the other have basically no people in comparison to China. Also, Australia, Canada, Finland and Iceland aren't exactly running concentration camps, do they?

[Bobsackamano]

US is a problem, the other have basically no people in comparison to China. Also, Australia, Canada, Finland and Iceland aren't exactly running concentration camps, do they?

Did i claim they were?

[GreatEx]

US is a problem, the other have basically no people in comparison to China. Also, Australia, Canada, Finland and Iceland aren't exactly running concentration camps, do they?

You can't use arbitrary political boundaries to excuse people from a global issue. Why not count each Chinese province as a separate entity? Why not treat the EU as one? The Australian right wing would love you, they are constantly banging the "only 1.3%" drum and making climate change an exclusively Chinese responsibility.

If you want to stop trading with China because of human rights abuses then call it for what it is. Don't weaken your argument with dodgy maths.

[Bobsackamano]

You can't use arbitrary political boundaries to excuse people from a global issue. Why not count each Chinese province as a separate entity? Why not treat the EU as one? The Australian right wing would love you, they are constantly banging the "only 1.3%" drum and making climate change an exclusively Chinese responsibility.

If you want to stop trading with China because of human rights abuses then call it for what it is. Don't weaken your argument with dodgy maths.

Thankyou, much more eloquently put than me.

[Yorkykopite]

They make stuff. We buy stuff.

This is the sad truth.

They also hand out enough goodies to make the traditional protesting class - the international artists and musicians etc - turn their heads another way.

China as a tyranny is getting to be post-Orwellian. There is even greater tragedy in the making I suspect.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Still:

China 8.0
UK 5.6
Sweden 4.5 (my country)

Since China is vastly overpopulated, the raw emissions and thus the real-time footprint is the real problem here. They and the Americans are the worst on that front, no contest.

It's not just Co2 they're dumping either, they have some of the worst air pollution in the whole world through no environmental regulation. It's beyond me why anyone in any Green party still advocates trade with China.

Population densities (per square kilometer):

UK: 274
China: 145
Sweden: 23
Germany: 223
USA: 34

Co2 emissions 2017 - tonnes per capita/year (percentage change compared to 1990):

UK: 5.7 tonnes (-35.6%)
China: 7.7 tonnes (+353.8%)
Sweden: 5.1 tonnes (-12.5%)
Germany: 9.7 tonnes (-21.8%)
USA: 25.7 tonnes (+0.4%)

A much more complicated picture than you outlined. I am struggling to understand why you single out China as being over-populated when the UK has nearly twice the population density. I do support the idea that (world) over population is the primary cause/problem with climate change, but why point to China when the UK has nearly twice the density?

[classycarra]

Speaking purely on the environment point rather than the disagreement over population, think it’s not at all unfair to single out China for the harm they are doing

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48353341

The link to the scientific paper is in the article. Just on this one CFC emission alone, the authors frame the emissions against a more familiar co2 benchmark:

“If we look at these extra emissions that we've identified from eastern China, it equates to about 35 million tonnes of CO2 being emitted into the atmosphere every year, that's equivalent to about 10% of UK emissions, or similar to the whole of London."

Pretty shocking from any state, but particularly concerning if one hopes they can turn it round since its from a state with little interest in international cooperation and even less in environmental and human rights