Topic: Brexit - the final chapters (***)

[ShakaHislop]

Jeremy c*nt with more veiled threats.

Hunt: We would regret no-deal Brexit for generations

Foreign Secretary Jeremy C*nt has said a no-deal Brexit "would be a mistake we would regret for generations", after a working tour of northern Europe.

But he said he believed that other countries wanted to "engage seriously" to try to get a "pragmatic outcome".

He also told ITV News he did not rule out the UK accepting EU environmental and social legislation, in order to help get a free trade deal.

It comes as Brexit talks resumed in Brussels between UK and EU officials.

Mr Hunt told ITV he believed the government's plan was the "framework on which I believe the ultimate deal will be based".

But he said, although the UK must be "prepared for all outcomes", if the UK were to leave without a negotiated deal: "It would be a mistake we would regret for generations, if we were to see a fissure, if we had a messy, ugly divorce.

"Inevitably that would change British attitudes towards Europe."

He also said it was his job as foreign secretary to tell other governments that "the implications of not getting a deal are profound in terms of our friendship and corporation with foreign countries across a whole range of areas".

Asked if the UK would consider EU proposals that the UK should accept EU environmental and social legislation he said: "I think we have to see what their proposal was, some of those things can have an impact on the level playing field, some won't."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45216061

[Skeeve]

Rees Mogg and his ilk genuinely believe that they can recreate the Empire.

Bit difficult when we no longer have a Premier League Navy and the natives are no longer armed to the teeth with kiwi fruit and dry guava halves.

They really don't think like that, they might hope for it, but their expectations are that they will make a profit whatever happens, doesn't Rees Mogg have an investment company that is basically setup to do exactly that?

[rob1966]

They really don't think like that, they might hope for it, but their expectations are that they will make a profit whatever happens, doesn't Rees Mogg have an investment company that is basically setup to do exactly that?

Yes any they have recently opened offices in mainland Europe. They are currently advising UK investors how to protect their investments from the affects of Brexit.

[ShakaHislop]

Jeremy c*nt with more veiled threats.

Hunt: We would regret no-deal Brexit for generations

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45216061

Hunt clarifies no-deal comments: UK 'would survive'

Jeremy C*nt has clarified his comments about a no-deal Brexit, saying Britain "would survive and prosper" - but it would be a "big mistake for Europe".

On Thursday he told ITV News a "messy" no-deal Brexit "would be a mistake we would regret for generations".

But he later tweeted that his words "should not be misrepresented"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45216061

[Alan_X]

They really don't think like that...

Are you sure?

[Libertine]

Hunt clarifies no-deal comments: UK 'would survive'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45216061

Ah yes. Britain will prosper in a no-deal scenario but it would be a disaster for Europe.

And that's why he and other ministers are traversing Europe trying to get a deal - purely out of concern for their neighbours.

This will really have a big impact on the negotiating stances of EU governments.

[oldfordie]

They really don't think like that, they might hope for it, but their expectations are that they will make a profit whatever happens, doesn't Rees Mogg have an investment company that is basically setup to do exactly that?

Some of Rees-Moggs statements are frighting, shocking people don't see him for what he is, a throw back to Victorian time who believes the working class should be thankful for any crumbs upper society decide to give them.
He told Parliaments select committee that he sees no reason why the UK cant adopt India standards on everything post Brexit, he sees no reason why UK workers cant work under the same conditions as workers in India. it's bad enough he gets away with this without uproar from the public but people actually like him and want him as PM.

[Iska]

Jeremy C*nt has clarified his comments about a no-deal Brexit, saying Britain "would survive and prosper" - but it would be a "big mistake for Europe".

[oldfordie]

Ah yes. Britain will prosper in a no-deal scenario but it would be a disaster for Europe.

And that's why he and other ministers are traversing Europe trying to get a deal - purely out of concern for their neighbours.

This will really have a big impact on the negotiating stances of EU governments.

I get the impression our government are trying to wind-up the EU to get a nasty angry reaction so they can use it against them for being bullies.
Barniers reaction to Mays Chequers deal told us he's far to savvy to walk into that trap.

[Zeb]

Interesting reading the thoughts of those of you with knowledge of haulage and such things. James Rothwell at The Telegraph has followed up his article from the other day about Grayling being as clueless as I am about it. Reason why The Telegraph's coverage of it is so fascinating, to me, is that their news section is saying one thing while their opinion columns are full of the likes of IDS giving it the full 'we shall fight them on the beaches in a congested lorry park which used to be a busy motorway'.

Spoiler

The M20 will be turned into a giant lorry park because of huge disruption to cross-channel trade caused by the EU in the event of a no-deal Brexit, according to official no deal plans unveiled next week.

The Telegraph understands that official plans for a no deal Brexit, which will be published next week, say that while the UK will "minimise" customs checks at British ports there is a "high likelihood" that there will be "disruption and delays" at European ports.

According to an industry source, the document states that in the event of a "no deal" Brexit Operation Brock - which will see half the M20 closed off for a 13-mile stretch- will form a "key part" of contingency plans.

One half of the motorway would be used as a lorry park for lorries queuing for Dover and Folkestone, with all traffic squeezed onto the other half.

The "technical notice" for the haulage industry suggests that British lorries could be banned from travelling to the European Union entirely, forcing haulage companies to resort to shipping freight in containers instead.

It also states that British drivers may have to apply for international driving permits after Brexit as the EU may no longer recognise UK licences.

It is one of 83 papers on no-deal Brexit over the next month, with the first tranche being published on Thursday next week.

The papers have led to accusations from Eurosceptics that they represent a "kamikaze" approach to Brexit and will only hand the EU a negotiating advantage.

However Dominic Raab, the Brexit Secretary, believes that they are a "serious and sober" response to the risks posed by no deal.

The paper says that there is a likelihood that the EU will introduce "checks for customs, sanitary and possibly transport documentation" at ports on the continent.

It suggests that checks introduced in France will lead to potential tailbacks in the UK for goods waiting to leave the UK.


It also warns that British lorries will lose the right to "community licences" which are needed for journeys to the European Union.

Hauliers will instead be forced to rely on permits, which are subject to a strict quota and would not be enough to cover trade with the EU.

The documents says that the permits are "limited in number", which means that hauliers will have to "maximise the amount of goods they transport" on each journey.

It suggests that the industry should examine "different routes" or look at "different modes of transport" entirely, such as using shipping containers.

David Jones, a Eurosceptic Tory MP, warned that the no deal documents must not become an "exercise in gloom and doom".

"It risks allowing the EU to hone in on areas of weakness and exploit them. It risks giving succour to our opponents on the other side of the negotiating table."

Other no-deal papers likely to be published next week will be on farming, financial services and aviation.

[close]

As Rothwell points out on his twitter, the Department of Transport have flat out lied to him (and us) about things such as there being enough permits available and everything going to be perfectly fine, while, at the very same time, having serious preparations for a full on fuckup. There's a good reason for the government to downplay just how bad it will be (eg if they cause a food panic then the people who'll be worst off will be the poorest and most vulnerable), and one can somewhat appreciate a desire to avoid Project Fear accusations. Still, it's not really particularly helpful if a significant portion of the population continue to fail to distinguish between the assurances of IDS (Universal Credit being his crowning glory in government) and the factual reporting of their journalists.

[oldfordie]

Interesting reading the thoughts of those of you with knowledge of haulage and such things. James Rothwell at The Telegraph has followed up his article from the other day about Grayling being as clueless as I am about it. Reason why The Telegraph's coverage of it is so fascinating, to me, is that their news section is saying one thing while their opinion columns are full of the likes of IDS giving it the full 'we shall fight them on the beaches in a congested lorry park which used to be a busy motorway'.

Spoiler

[close]

As Rothwell points out on his twitter, the Department of Transport have flat out lied to him (and us) about things such as there being enough permits available and everything going to be perfectly fine, while, at the very same time, having serious preparations for a full on fuckup. There's a good reason for the government to downplay just how bad it will be (eg if they cause a food panic then the people who'll be worst off will be the poorest and most vulnerable), and one can somewhat appreciate a desire to avoid Project Fear accusations. Still, it's not really particularly helpful if a significant portion of the population continue to fail to distinguish between the assurances of IDS (Universal Credit being his crowning glory in government) and the factual reporting of their journalists.

How does the department of transport know if we will have enough Permits when this is part of our future relationship,lots of issues need sorting out if we leave without a deal. travel being one of them.you would think it would be Grayling telling the department of Transport how many permits we will get and not them telling him.
Still think he's lying. Tories dont seem to know about a lot of things (why people use food banks etc)when it exposes their incompetence.
www.parliament.uk
Road haulage between the UK and EFTA States currently operates without permits under EU regulations and agreements. The access arrangements available for the UK operators for trade with the EFTA States after the UK has left the EU will be a matter for negotiation.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2018-02-07/127295/

[kavah]

When a picture paints a thousand words

[Commie Bobbie]

From Reddit - but absolutely on point.

Brexiters talk airily about cutting new deals around the world. This is nonsense. It’s not just that we will have lost deals with nearly 70 countries and won’t have the EU’s clout as we try to negotiate new ones. It’s also that if we quit the EU without paying our dues, fat chance that other countries will trust us to keep our word when we try to entice them into new trading arrangements.

[Zeb]

Still seem to be waiting for this Yougov poll to be released to the public.

A YouGov poll of more than 4,900 people, released to the Guardian on Sunday, put the Conservatives ahead of Labour by four points in a snap election should the latter adopt an anti-Brexit position, and ahead by nine points if Labour were to pledge to follow through with leaving the EU.

The Lib Dems would gain 10 points from Labour backing Brexit, lifting them to two points behind Labour.

Guardian

Think the last Remainiacs podcast had the chief operating officer of Best for Britain talking about how they were extrapolating constituency level results from polling to get this sort of thing.

Also fascinating to see the new Tory 'wets' really begin to make their case to the public. Dr. Sarah Wollaston in The Times today:

Spoiler

If you were about to undergo surgery, you would expect to know what the operation involved and to be informed about all the risks and benefits. It’s called informed consent and no decent surgeon would go ahead without it.

Brexit certainly is major surgery with far-reaching consequences and the government is about to proceed without informed consent.

At the time of the referendum the choice was simply to leave or to remain. The type of Brexit was not on the ballot paper, which is like a surgeon asking their patient to consent to an amputation in two years’ time without either of them knowing whether this would involve a few toes or their whole leg.

Voters were assured that this would be the easiest deal in history and that the world, including the EU, would be queuing at our door to trade on our terms. There would be cake and we would be eating it, alongside every fish that swam in our waters.

In the real world, instead of a bespoke deal we are all being marched briskly to the edge of the cliff. No deal and no transition look increasingly likely to be the outcome, and is the preferred option of those MPs who have deliberately and fatally undermined the Chequers plan.

The surgery looks set to be far more radical than anything set out in the referendum and the side-effects and complications of a hard, walk-away, no-deal Brexit with no transition are very different from the promised targeted surgical excision of just the parts of the EU that the Brexiteers didn’t like. Shouldn’t people have an opportunity to weigh up the risks and benefits before proceeding?

Once we know the final terms there is not just an opportunity but a duty to set out the unintended consequences as well as the potential benefits. There is a compelling case for that to be followed by a people’s vote: we have to make it clear to government that it should not embark on potentially ruinous surgery without the informed consent of the British people.

It might be that a majority nevertheless decide to proceed, but there is no democratic mandate for Brexit until the choice is clear and an informed decision can be made. If the hard Brexiteers are confident about their walk-away, no-deal scenario they should be happy to agree.

The polls show that public opinion is turning on Brexit, especially as the sheer scale of the cost and consequences becomes clearer.

No responsible government should countenance deliberately and knowingly inflicting such economic and social harm on its people before at least checking that is what they really wanted.

[close]

edit: And forgot to flag up George Freeman arguing "It’s time to choose between a Conservative Brexit or a UKIP one" to the faithful at Conservative Home.

Spoiler

The need for fresh thinking is why I set up the Big Tent Ideas Festival.  As chair of the fast-growing CPF, I’m committed to the renewal of grassroots Conservatism and our future as an election-winning party. But that can only happen by renewing our reputation as a generous party that puts the national interest before our own interest.

That’s why we have my good friends and Brexiteers Dan Hannan, Steve Baker, and Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove alongside former Remainers like myself, Tom Tugendhat and Bim Afolami: we need to come together and shape an inspiring renewal programme for a New Generation.

We’ll be debating such questions as: how we can reboot a popular capitalism for a new generation? How we need to reset British foreign policy outside of the EU? How we can make Brexit a catalyst for bolder domestic reforms?

The first step to winning their trust is to deliver an orderly Brexit transition which gives business time to adapt. The chances of getting our own bespoke deal are now very slim. We needed to have started two years ago, with a strong vision and a united Cabinet. That chance was blown. Now, I believe, our most realistic chance of a smooth exit is by adopting the off-the-shelf EEA/EFTA option as a stepping stone to a longer term Free Trade Agreement with the EU.

To end the Brexit Civil War and make this a moment of unifying national renewal, we need first to make it a moment of unifying Party renewal.  We should resist the siren voice of Frottage and assemble a ‘Big Tent’ Brexit coalition in the best traditions of One Nation Conservatism, as Disraeli, Churchill and Thatcher did. We will pay a high price for delivering a UKIP-style hard Brexit.

[close]

Although the idea of moving to EFTA as a short term measure seems guaranteed to prolong the whole Brexit debate rather than settle it, compared to other alternatives...

[Alan_X]

Article in the Guardian on the poll suggests that Labour could drop to 19% (Lib Dems on 17%) if both major parties supported leaving the EU at a snap election.

[TepidT2O]

Article in the Guardian on the poll suggests that Labour could drop to 19% (Lib Dems on 17%) if both major parties supported leaving the EU at a snap election.

I reckon that’s rubbish though...

Essentially an opinion poll is who would you vote for if there was an election now.  It’s the same thing...

[John C]

Former BBC presenter Gavin Esler was on CNN earlier saying that after the referendum he accepted the result, now he's completely against the concept of Brexit due to the "incompetency of the people supposed to be delivering it" and "the lies being told by politicians". He spoke about Rees-Mogg moving his hedge-fund to Dublin.

[kavah]

^ Yes I just saw that too John. He seems like a good frontman, I hope this gains some traction.

[ShakaHislop]

Brexit: NHS managers warn about impact of no deal

The group representing hospitals and ambulance services in England has warned of a lack of "contingency planning" to deal with the impact of a no-deal Brexit on the health service.

In a leaked email to NHS England boss Simon Stevens, NHS Providers says leaving the EU without agreement would immediately be a real risk to services.

The group warns it would make it harder to stop the spread of diseases.

NHS England said preparing for every potential Brexit outcome is a priority.

With seven months to go, ministers have said they are stepping up contingency preparations for a no-deal Brexit, while insisting that it is not their chosen outcome.

But NHS Providers - which represents acute, ambulance, community and mental health services within the health service - has expressed concern about what it says is a lack of engagement with ministers in the email, seen by the BBC.

It has called for NHS England and NHS Improvement - which oversees NHS trusts and providers - to convene a group of trust leaders as a matter of urgency.

In an email sent to NHS chief executive Simon Stevens, also copied in to Mr Raab and Health Secretary Matt Hancock, it calls for a co-ordinated response to confront the challenges that would be presented by a no deal.

Chief executive of NHS Providers Chris Hopson writes that there has been "no formal communication" to trusts from either NHS England or NHS Improvement on this issue.

Without national planning and coordination "there could be both stockpiles and shortages of medicines and medical devices", Mr Hopson says.

He adds that "disease control coordination could also suffer".

An NHS England spokeswoman said the health service was working with government, planning for different post-Brexit scenarios.

"We will be working with our colleagues and partners across the NHS to ensure plans are well progressed, and will provide the NHS with the support it need," she said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45250070

[ShakaHislop]

Barry Gardiner knocking back the idea of another referendum by using the old "there'll be riots if it doesn't happen" argument.

Why is it acceptable for fear of violence to intimidate politicians down a certain path? That's a bigger threat to democracy than another vote, in which Leave would be an option once again.

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1031823362090311681

[killer-heels]

Barry Gardiner knocking back the idea of another referendum by using the old "there'll be riots if it doesn't happen" argument.

Why is it acceptable for threats of violence to intimidate politicians down a certain path? That's a bigger threat to democracy than another vote, in which Leave would be an option once again.

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1031823362090311681

Laughable. As if anyone is scared of the geriatrics who voted for Brexit.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Barry Gardiner knocking back the idea of another referendum by using the old "there'll be riots if it doesn't happen" argument.

Why is it acceptable for fear of violence to intimidate politicians down a certain path? That's a bigger threat to democracy than another vote, in which Leave would be an option once again.

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1031823362090311681

on the plus side it’d ruin his political career

[killer-heels]

on the plus side it’d ruin his political career

Gardiner is shit anyway. Not sure why people took him seriously. The guy leeches onto whatever he can to claim some relevance.

But then i guess thats like most MP’s.

[filopastry]

Gardiner is shit anyway. Not sure why people took him seriously. The guy leeches onto whatever he can to claim some relevance.

But then i guess thats like most MP’s.

His comments on Brexit related matters have been awful for a while now.

The thing is the civil disobedience line might have some meaning if anyone was talking about politicians ignoring the results of the referendum, having a second ref on the final deal isn't doing that, it is asking people to have a final democratic say on a massive decision for the country's future now that they hopefully have more facts to base that decision on than they did in 2016.

That should hardly be threatening to anyone who bangs on about the will of the people as much as your average Brexiter does.

[So… Howard Philips]

His comments on Brexit related matters have been awful for a while now.

The thing is the civil disobedience line might have some meaning if anyone was talking about politicians ignoring the results of the referendum, having a second ref on the final deal isn't doing that, it is asking people to have a final democratic say on a massive decision for the country's future now that they hopefully have more facts to base that decision on than they did in 2016.

That should hardly be threatening to anyone who bangs on about the will of (some of) the people as much as your average Brexiter does.

Fixed that for you.

[Ray K]

Barry Gardiner knocking back the idea of another referendum by using the old "there'll be riots if it doesn't happen" argument.

Why is it acceptable for fear of violence to intimidate politicians down a certain path? That's a bigger threat to democracy than another vote, in which Leave would be an option once again.

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1031823362090311681

I do wonder how anyone ever got the impression that the Labour front bench were ever opposed to Brexit, or would do anything to block Tory Brexit policies.

[rob1966]

Barry Gardiner knocking back the idea of another referendum by using the old "there'll be riots if it doesn't happen" argument.

Why is it acceptable for fear of violence to intimidate politicians down a certain path? That's a bigger threat to democracy than another vote, in which Leave would be an option once again.

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1031823362090311681

Does he think the 40 odd million who didn't vote for this shit will just sit on their hands and meekly accept the damage. There'll be fucking riots either way, gobshite.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I do wonder how anyone ever got the impression that the Labour front bench were ever opposed to Brexit, or would do anything to block Tory Brexit policies.

the only chance they have of getting in in their minds is a horrific brexit and the three years after that prior to an election and people run to them as their saviours when in reality they’re providing more resistance against flavoured rice, national allotment days and work reunions right now that the far bigger issue

[oldfordie]

Barry Gardiner knocking back the idea of another referendum by using the old "there'll be riots if it doesn't happen" argument.

Why is it acceptable for fear of violence to intimidate politicians down a certain path? That's a bigger threat to democracy than another vote, in which Leave would be an option once again.

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1031823362090311681

Gardiners worried about losing votes while the rest of us are worried about the effects of Brexit.
 Ok, the Tories call a snap election, Labour win, Labour now have to deliver Brexit.
We all know this is not just about leaving the EU to the leave voters. this is about control of FOM, Sovereignty. trade deals.free of rules and regulations.
Are Labour going to respect these aims for the reasons Gardiner has given.
He can't just argue leave voters will run into the arms of the extreme right if we don't leave the EU. they will run into the arms of the extreme right if we don't leave the EU and deliver on FOM etc. the hard core nutters are a lost cause, forget about them.start considering the millions of remain Labour voters. they are feeling betrayed by Labours stance on Brexit.
Lets have a bit of honesty, stop arguing to leave the EU and promising us a better future.
People will argue Labour can't argue to leave the EU and then tell voters it's going to be awful, job losses and poverty. Labour cant win a election saying this and that's absolutely true, thats why they have to stand against Brexit and tell people the truth.
This is not about the Tories being bad at negotiating, it doesn't matter whose in charge. Labour or Torys. our red lines stop us getting a deal.
Labour have really lost their way. the aim is not to win power at any cost, the aim is to make change for the good, if the price of a Labour government is mass unemployment +poverty then count me out.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/08/brexit-tightly-coupled-process.html

Anyone care to dissect this for the more ignorant of non UK residents or expats who would like to understand Brexit better?

Does this thesis by Yves Smith hold water?

[Zeb]

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/08/brexit-tightly-coupled-process.html

Anyone care to dissect this for the more ignorant of non UK residents or expats who would like to understand Brexit better?

Does this thesis by Yves Smith hold water?

It does, but it also rests on the assumption that neither May nor the EU will work towards each other. Not sure how well that assumption will hold up. Barnier has the transition etc. deal at 80% complete, with the Irish backstop the largest item left to be agreed upon. It's not inevitable that the EU refuse to fudge the edges nor that May doesn't accept something 'temporary' just to make it into a transition.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1031943630590763010?s=21

#leadership

[Mutton Geoff]

Laughable. As if anyone is scared of the geriatrics who voted for Brexit.

Comments like this totally piss me off, first it ageism which is just another discrimination in society ,
second there are not enough older people to carry that vote

 check out your essex white van lot, the unemployed but feeling entitled down the pub lot, and of course the rampant well stirred up xenophobes, and little englanders

 Only a small poll i know but with friends, work colleagues and family  the older and wiser ones voted to remain because we remember the EFTA days and the younger ones easily manipulated by the media and social media propaganda or bias and Frottage and Boris lies voted to leave.

As for Gardiner he is talking total shit,  there will be riots anyway nearly half the country will be well pissed off no matter if it is leave or remain.

[rob1966]

Comments like this totally piss me off, first it ageism which is just another discrimination in society ,
second there are not enough older people to carry that vote

 check out your essex white van lot, the unemployed but feeling entitled down the pub lot, and of course the rampant well stirred up xenophobes, and little englanders

 Only a small poll i know but with friends, work colleagues and family  the older and wiser ones voted to remain because we remember the EFTA days and the younger ones easily manipulated by the media and social media propaganda or bias and Frottage and Boris lies voted to leave.

As for Gardiner he is talking total shit,  there will be riots anyway nearly half the country will be well pissed off no matter if it is leave or remain.

If anyone is to blame, its the under 40's who are culpable. Official figures show that of the under 25 age group, 71% voted remain, 54% of under 50's Remain, then 50 to 64 60% voted Leave and 64% of the over 65's voted Leave.

However 90% of over 65's voted, so that's roughly 6 million over 65's who voted leave, a 1/3 of the vote, yet only 64% of 18-25's voted, 66% of 25 to 39's and between 40 -54 was about 68%. 75% of 55-64 voted.

The 50 to 64 age group was pretty even, but the younger you go the less voted Leave, so if the under 40's had got off their fucking arses, Remain would have won.

[ShakaHislop]

If anyone is to blame, its the under 40's who are culpable. Official figures show that of the under 25 age group, 71% voted remain, 54% of under 50's Remain, then 50 to 64 60% voted Leave and 64% of the over 65's voted Leave.

However 90% of over 65's voted, so that's roughly 6 million over 65's who voted leave, a 1/3 of the vote, yet only 64% of 18-25's voted, 66% of 25 to 39's and between 40 -54 was about 68%. 75% of 55-64 voted.

The 50 to 64 age group was pretty even, but the younger you go the less voted Leave, so if the under 40's had got off their fucking arses, Remain would have won.

Do you have a link to these figures?

[oldfordie]

https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1031943630590763010?s=21

#leadership

Shocking, no wonder the countries in s,, street. were heading for a disaster and the 2 main parties in the UK are refusing to tell the public truth. his argument on respecting the result of the referendum is one thing, how about respecting the truth. if he knows Brexit is going to make us far worse off then why won't he just say it.

[rob1966]

Do you have a link to these figures?

Age distribution of the UK

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/july2017

How Britain voted

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

[ShakaHislop]

Age distribution of the UK

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/july2017

How Britain voted

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

Cheers

[ShakaHislop]

https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1031943630590763010?s=21

#leadership

What exactly does he mean by ensuring Brexit "gives us opportunities to trade elsewhere also"? How does that fit in with Labour's pledge to seek a customs union with the EU?

[ShakaHislop]

EU residents will be secure if no Brexit deal says Raab

The UK will "move swiftly" to safeguard the future of EU citizens in the event of no deal being agreed, Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab has said.

After talks in Brussels, he told the BBC the UK had a "moral obligation" to people and it was "inconceivable" they would be "turfed out".

The EU, he said, must match the UK's "ambition and pragmatism" if the gaps between them were to be overcome.

Counterpart Michel Barnier warned of a "blame game" over a no deal outcome.

Mr Barnier said fundamental disagreements remained on future economic issues and the EU would not abandon its principles when it came to the integrity of the single market.

At a press conference earlier, the EU's negotiator said his goal was to strike a future partnership of "unprecedented" scope with the UK.

But he warned progress on trade and economic co-operation lagged behind that on security and defence issues and said the EU would not compromise the integrity of the single market.

Mr Barnier said the question of the Irish border must be "de-dramatised" with the onus on both sides to make clear "which controls are needed where and how this should be done".

He added: "Our challenge for the coming weeks is to try and define an ambitious partnership between the UK and the EU - a partnership that has no precedent.

"This partnership has to respect the single market and the foundations of the European project, and if this is well understood we can conclude the negotiations successfully."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45258343