Author Topic: A change in Venezuela?  (Read 47973 times)

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #200 on: January 24, 2019, 10:35:36 pm »
But for what purpose, Alan? What does the long game serve, specifically in relation to Venezuela? Please don't tell me that this is only about oil.
Did you miss a huge slice of irony in his post, or have I read this totally wrong?
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Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #201 on: January 24, 2019, 10:43:11 pm »
Did you miss a huge slice of irony in his post, or have I read this totally wrong?
Only Alan knows ;) I tend to take everything he says at face value ;)

Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #202 on: January 24, 2019, 11:43:29 pm »
Poor bastards deserve better than this,it looks like it will get very bloody or should that be bloodier.All the top Generals have come out for Maduro & if you can say anything for certain with regards to Venezuela it is that since the little bird died,the Generals hold the real power.

The Generals who head our armed forced are strongly linked with narcos and colombian paramilitary groups (ELN) plus they are exploiting gold and other metals ilegal mines in the Venezuelan part of the Amazon, fuck it! even the Maduro's family and the vicepresident are linked with drug trafficking and smuggling large amounts of drugs in the continent. (where are Maduro's nephews? So, there is a bit of a possibility that they won't give that up quite easily. Believe me, I'm not even mentioning the corruption and unprecedent large-scale theft to the riches of our country.

https://twitter.com/joselchilavert_/status/1088530155952324608?s=21

Probably the most relevant place to post this, the most effective ‘don’t do drugs kids’ post I’ve seen

Guess why Maradona is such a friend of the government. Absolute piece of shit of a human being. I don't care about his football skills, he's a c*nt.
He's right though - the CIA have been playing the long game - install a populist Socialist leader in 2002, run the country into the ground for 12 years, give the leader cancer so he dies shortly after re-election then install a second-rate Chavez tribute act to take the country further down the toilet so that millions leave, people starve and inflation reaches 1,000,000%...

...and then, with the country in ruins... and only then... they pull their master stroke and put up an opposition challenge...

The CIA are all-powerful and can do anything, anywhere in the world. They can even manipulate the Russians to manipulate the US election to install an orange moron in the White House... and once he's there, the masterstroke is to undermine him by electing a Democrat House.



Pray father! pray!!!
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Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #203 on: January 25, 2019, 12:38:21 am »
So this is a brief explanation of what is going on (tip of the iceberg) and why the measures taken yesterday were taken and why Guaido is perfectly legal

1. In 2015, the previous national assembly, illegally, out of time and right before the elections for a new parliament, the government sets up a new Supreme court, full of Chavistas parliament members (2015)
2. This very same Supreme court declares that the new national Assembly (now with the majority of opposition PMs) is out of order and three years later they still haven't given a solution for this "issue" (2016)
3. The government and CNE (the council that oversees elections in our country) calls off the presidential referendum that was supposed to happen in that moment. Venezuelans gathered more than 3 million signatures (out of the 300.000 needed) but the process was declared null because there were apparently 20000 suspicious signatures. This same CNE is also ilegal because its member are openly chavistas and whose time in the council is designed yearly but they have overstayed like 8. To make it even more tragic, after this farce, the CNE also says that they cannot organise new elections anytime soon, so they call off governors and presidential elections equally
4. The supreme court violates the constitution when they create new laws (something that only the parliament can do and nowhere in the constitution says they can do)
5. The Government declares we need a new National Assembly to create a new constitution, they don't make elections for this (the constitution says it is mandatory to do so), they just set it up.
6. This new paralel-parliament gives Maduro powers above the constitution.
7. Also, this new paralel-parliament calls on again the presidential elections, without international observers, only less than 20% of the people participates and the company who run the machines used in the election admitted fraud (more than 1 million votes fraud)
8. The legal national Assembly elected in 2016 and many countries around the world don't validate Maduro's election, this automatically triggers Article 350 of our constitution (It says something along the lines that the people of Venezuela shall disown any regime, legislation or authority that violates the democratic values, principles and guarantees or encroaches upon human rights)
9. This means that the election was null and his presidential period ended on January 10th 2019 therefore The national assembly declares a power vacuum and uses article 233 from our constitution (again something like in this: abandonment of his position, duly declared by the National Assembly; and recall by popular vote.)
10. Maduro decides to self proclaim president on January 10 in front of the (very ilegal) Supreme court, he could have tried in front of the Parliament which is the duty of the event, but he didn't.

After all this mess (and you think your government is fucked up, you Brits are so cute) Guaidó, acting as president of the national assembly uses the constitution to take a TEMPORARY presidency, create a transition government and to be able to call for new elections.

It pains me to see that Trump is the first one to jump in and support (I feel dirty) but also many other countries around the world have shown full support, including the UK government (Yes, Jeremy C*nt saying it made me feel even worse than when Trump did) but at this rate, any half decent democracy that support us is a relief (including Canada, have you seen their prime minister? damn he's hot, I felt dirty in a different way there). Before anyone says that this is just another chapter of the Monroe doctrine and that the US wants a puppet government... my dears, China, Cuba, Turkey and Russia aren't interested in Venezuela just because of the arepas, eh? The Venezuelan government has given one too many dodgy deals to those governments and basically sold us to them.

This is the first step of ending this shit, finally a sight of relief that Venezuelan have hoped for for far too long. We just need to overthrow Maduro and then we deal with the rest.


« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 02:12:38 am by Lady_brandybuck »
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #204 on: January 25, 2019, 01:28:15 am »
He's right though - the CIA have been playing the long game - install a populist Socialist leader in 2002, run the country into the ground for 12 years, give the leader cancer so he dies shortly after re-election then install a second-rate Chavez tribute act to take the country further down the toilet so that millions leave, people starve and inflation reaches 1,000,000%...

...and then, with the country in ruins... and only then... they pull their master stroke and put up an opposition challenge...

The CIA are all-powerful and can do anything, anywhere in the world. They can even manipulate the Russians to manipulate the US election to install an orange moron in the White House... and once he's there, the masterstroke is to undermine him by electing a Democrat House.



;D

Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #205 on: January 25, 2019, 10:52:51 am »
Kati that's a brilliant  if scary, summary. I'd urge anyone to read it before contributing any further opinions on the reality in Venezuela.

Offline classycarra

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #206 on: January 25, 2019, 01:42:09 pm »
Kati that's a brilliant  if scary, summary. I'd urge anyone to read it before contributing any further opinions on the reality in Venezuela.

Seconded, really great. So glad there is some hope on the horizon for you, you deserve it!

ps loved the Trudeau bit ;D

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #207 on: January 25, 2019, 05:02:43 pm »
Venezuela is clearly in a hopelessly desperate situation. I spent some time living in Chile, and the amount of Venezuelans there fleeing the mess was testament to that.

My two main questions are:

1) Does Maduro retain any popular support, or is it a case of ruling purely through the military/security apparatus?

2) How likely is a civil war after this? Because it is grim to think that Venzeula might sink lower then it is now.

Offline jason67

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #208 on: January 25, 2019, 06:00:07 pm »
He's right though - the CIA have been playing the long game - install a populist Socialist leader in 2002, run the country into the ground for 12 years, give the leader cancer so he dies shortly after re-election then install a second-rate Chavez tribute act to take the country further down the toilet so that millions leave, people starve and inflation reaches 1,000,000%...

...and then, with the country in ruins... and only then... they pull their master stroke and put up an opposition challenge...

The CIA are all-powerful and can do anything, anywhere in the world. They can even manipulate the Russians to manipulate the US election to install an orange moron in the White House... and once he's there, the masterstroke is to undermine him by electing a Democrat House.
Cracking post Alan.  :)

Thanks for pointing out to the naive posters on these boards (like myself) that the CIA would never, ever be involved in anything like a regime change.  And as Jimmy tried to point out in his ridiculous post nothing has ever happened during the 50's 60's 70's 80' 90's or even beyond that.

No way would an upstanding organisation like that be involved in anything that would be seen as corrupt in anyway, not a chance.

It would be great if we could find out where these millions (or maybe billions) of dollars are spent every year on their covert operations so we could congratulate them in our own way.

At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

Still don't buy the s*n.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #209 on: January 25, 2019, 06:08:50 pm »
It would be great if we could find out where these millions (or maybe billions) of dollars are spent every year on their covert operations so we could congratulate them in our own way.



It seems they put them into the bank account of Chavez's daughter. Why they would do that i dont know. But obviously something to do with them being fiendishly clever.
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Offline jason67

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #210 on: January 25, 2019, 07:00:58 pm »
It seems they put them into the bank account of Chavez's daughter. Why they would do that i dont know. But obviously something to do with them being fiendishly clever.
Yet again I have seen the truth, Yorky, I salute you.  :wave  (although pointing out that Chavez was corrupt doesn't really exonerate the CIA does it?...which was pretty much the point of my post, but do carry on old chap).
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #211 on: January 25, 2019, 07:17:34 pm »
Great piece by Kat there*, thanks, and I so hope it all turns out ok.


(*Apart from the lusting after Justin Trudeau of course ;D)
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #212 on: January 25, 2019, 07:18:36 pm »
It seems they put them into the bank account of Chavez's daughter. Why they would do that i dont know. But obviously something to do with them being fiendishly clever.
It was redistribution of wealth.  Good socialist principles
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline OneTouchFooty

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #213 on: January 25, 2019, 07:36:49 pm »
Can’t people agree that Maduro is a corrupt piece of shit that needs removing but also that the US and Trump do not give a shit about Venuezula for anything other than economic opportunism?

I’m surprised how suggesting the motives of US are not potentially wholesome and with their historically imperialistic antagonism in S. America is cause for cynicism is getting some people’s backs up so much.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 07:39:20 pm by OneTouchFooty »

Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #214 on: January 25, 2019, 08:04:45 pm »
Venezuela is clearly in a hopelessly desperate situation. I spent some time living in Chile, and the amount of Venezuelans there fleeing the mess was testament to that.

My two main questions are:

1) Does Maduro retain any popular support, or is it a case of ruling purely through the military/security apparatus?

2) How likely is a civil war after this? Because it is grim to think that Venzeula might sink lower then it is now.


To answer your first question, there may be a 10/15% of people that still believes in Maduro and supports the government, but he basically rules because he has the military (and paramilitay groups called "colectivos" created by Chavez) with him, with that apparatus he controls everything else, legally or illegally.

Second: To have a civil war you need to have two sides, with the same amount of weapons, etc. In this case we have a loon who controls all the arms (and his own narcotrafic business) and is supported by rogue governments against 85% of the population who mostly lives in poverty, malnourished and without food nor health services. So, unlikely... More like it's a hostage situation

Can’t people agree that Maduro is a corrupt piece of shit that needs removing but also that the US and Trump do not give a shit about Venezuela for anything other than economic opportunism?

I’m surprised how suggesting the motives of US are not potentially wholesome and with their historically imperialistic antagonism in S. America is cause for cynicism is getting some people’s backs up so much.

China, Russia, Iran and Turkey aren't interested in Venezuela just because of the arepas, nice people and hot women. I do understand, we're talking about Trump and everyone hates him, I absolutely despise the orange wig wearing fuckwit, but if it helps to get rid of Maduro, so be it for now.
Let us just get rid of Maduro and we'll leave everyone to go to Venezuela and invest, US Americans, British, Russians, Chinese... we welcome everyone.

(*Apart from the lusting after Justin Trudeau of course ;D)



Man, have you seen him?



ps loved the Trudeau bit ;D

Me too  :champ
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #215 on: January 25, 2019, 08:24:36 pm »
:lmao
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #216 on: January 25, 2019, 09:12:19 pm »
Can’t people agree that Maduro is a corrupt piece of shit that needs removing but also that the US and Trump do not give a shit about Venuezula for anything other than economic opportunism?

I’m surprised how suggesting the motives of US are not potentially wholesome and with their historically imperialistic antagonism in S. America is cause for cynicism is getting some people’s backs up so much.
as lady b mentioned the vast majority who are against Maduro aren’t exactly in a position to stand up t him, so they will probably need the help to get rid of maduro

Oh, and that plane from Russia is probably these guys

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive-idUSKCN1PJ22M

Offline Mark Walters

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #217 on: January 25, 2019, 09:37:08 pm »
OK, wait....I think the point about how Venezuela got into this situation might have been missed. Read this thread: https://twitter.com/fcn_84/status/1087482013114863616

Add to that institutional racism and classism against working class Afro-Venezuelans, limited access to education for ethnic groups, reclamation of land from indigenous peoples, etc - the prelude to imperialism.  And why?  Oil of course!
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #218 on: January 25, 2019, 09:40:15 pm »
OK, wait....I think the point about how Venezuela got into this situation might have been missed. Read this thread: https://twitter.com/fcn_84/status/1087482013114863616

Add to that institutional racism and classism against working class Afro-Venezuelans, limited access to education for ethnic groups, reclamation of land from indigenous peoples, etc - the prelude to imperialism.  And why?  Oil of course!
that money would have been used to pay for Maduros empanadas for a month

Offline Mark Walters

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #219 on: January 25, 2019, 09:43:12 pm »
that money would have been used to pay for Maduros empanadas for a month

Or, as the thread says, vital medicines for the citizens.
"Maybe in life it's impossible to give 100 per cent to your job. Okay, I'll accept 98 per cent" Rafa Benitez

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #220 on: January 25, 2019, 09:43:49 pm »
Or, as the thread says, vital medicines for the citizens.
im pretty sure they could do that now if they weren’t bastards, $2.5bn is a drop in the ocean, they export shitloads of oil to those nasty Americans for starters

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 09:47:21 pm by Lush is the best medicine... »

Offline classycarra

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #221 on: January 25, 2019, 10:04:33 pm »
A lot of peoples political views of south america seem to be stuck in the 1990s, or earlier. Or in other words, pre internet-era. No offence Jason

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #222 on: January 25, 2019, 10:05:07 pm »
A lot of peoples political views of south america seem to be stuck in the 1990s, or earlier. Or in other words, pre internet-era. No offence Jason
and you can find plenty online who will happily help enforce them

Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #223 on: January 25, 2019, 10:34:51 pm »
OK, wait....I think the point about how Venezuela got into this situation might have been missed. Read this thread: https://twitter.com/fcn_84/status/1087482013114863616

Add to that institutional racism and classism against working class Afro-Venezuelans, limited access to education for ethnic groups, reclamation of land from indigenous peoples, etc - the prelude to imperialism.  And why?  Oil of course!

What the actual fuck mate? is that your proof of anything?

For your information, that money is in the accounts of many members of the Socialist Party and is being withheld in different parts of the world because of the current investigations against members of the government in cases of corruption. Just at the end of December, a guy who was at the top of one of government institutions just 3 or 4 years ago was finally caught by the FBI because of an investigation of money laundering and theft... do you know how much money this guy had in his account without considering his properties? 1000000000$, and no, I'm not adding zeros here. This man used to be Chavez Bodyguard and then was the second in hand at the ministry of Economy. That's just the tip of the iceberg, just to mention one of Chavez daughters has a fortune of 4000000000$, you tell me where did she get that money from. Chavez came to power being a "Working class" military man, and died with 2000000000 in the bank. You can research these numbers in the web, anytime.

Do you have any idea how much money Venezuela received between 2005 and 2013, when the dollar price was 100 per barrel and we were exporting more than a million a day? you do the math.

These people have stolen all the money that can be possible stolen, they have ruined every single factory or industry expropriated, they have even ruined our oil plants in the country, when out of 4 of the biggest in the world there is only one actually working. The amount of oil we export now is ridiculous compared to 6 years ago.

Don't come here spreading that sort of shit when you don't have a clue, and I'm not even starting with the afro-Venezuelan bullshit you spew there, I mean, what the actual fuck. Indigenous land? limited education? THEY RUINED OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM, including universities etc.

Stop feeding yourself with Venezuelan Government's propaganda, you're making yourself look like a fool here. Next thing you will be posting Erdogan's tweets here.

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Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #224 on: January 25, 2019, 10:36:21 pm »
Oh and the sanctions, those sanctions were given directly to members of the government, not the country on it's own. Those sanctions were given to freeze their assets overseas, again due to the international investigations.
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Offline J_Kopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #225 on: January 25, 2019, 10:38:54 pm »
"Anti imperialist" accounts on Twitter need to get in the sea

Offline Alan_X

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #226 on: January 25, 2019, 11:41:59 pm »
Cracking post Alan.  :)

Thanks for pointing out to the naive posters on these boards (like myself) that the CIA would never, ever be involved in anything like a regime change.  And as Jimmy tried to point out in his ridiculous post nothing has ever happened during the 50's 60's 70's 80' 90's or even beyond that.

No way would an upstanding organisation like that be involved in anything that would be seen as corrupt in anyway, not a chance.

It would be great if we could find out where these millions (or maybe billions) of dollars are spent every year on their covert operations so we could congratulate them in our own way.

I’m well aware of the history of US interference in South America, as is Kat who refers to the Monroe doctrine in her excellent post.

The question is whether the evidence feels like the overthrow of Allende, or the installation of the Shah. The answer is no, it doesn’t.
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Offline Peabee

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #227 on: January 26, 2019, 03:13:26 am »
Of course the US want regime change in their favour, and of course they’re only interested in what’s happening because of the oil reserves (the US have 10 years of oil at current production and proven reserves whereas Venezuela has over ten times as much based on proven resources).

It doesn’t mean the current regime isn’t corrupt though.


Country   Rank   Reserves   Rank   Reserves   Rank   Reserves   Source/Date   Reserves   Production (MMbbl/year, 2016)[1]   Years
 Venezuela (see: Oil reserves in Venezuela)   1   300,878   1   300,878   1   300,900         831.1   362
 Saudi Arabia (see: Oil reserves in Saudi Arabia)   2   266,455   2   266,455   2   266,600         3818.1   69
 Canada (see: Oil reserves in Canada)   3   169,709   26   4,118[5]   3   172,200   Natural Resources Canada, end 2014[6]   171,000   1336.8   126
 Iran (see: Oil reserves in Iran)   4   158,400   3   158,400   4   157,800         1452.9   109
 Iraq (see: Oil reserves in Iraq)   5   142,503   4   142,503   5   143,100         1624.8   88
 Kuwait (see: Oil reserves in Kuwait)   6   101,500   5   101,500   7   101,500         1067.2   27
 UAE (see: Oil reserves in the United Arab Emirates)   7   97,800   6   97,800   8   97,800         1133.7   18
 Russia (see: Oil reserves in Russia)   8   80,000   7   80,000   6   102,400         3851.3   21
 Libya (see: Oil reserves in Libya)   9   48,000   8   74,363   9   78,400         366.1   131
 Nigeria (see: Oil reserves in Nigeria)   10   37,062   9   37,062   11   37,100         730.0   51
 United States (see: Oil reserves in the United States)   11   35,000   10   36,685   10   55,000   ENI, end of 2015[7]   43,629   3239.7   10
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Offline jason67

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #228 on: January 26, 2019, 05:58:24 am »
A lot of peoples political views of south america seem to be stuck in the 1990s, or earlier. Or in other words, pre internet-era. No offence Jason
None taken.  :)
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #229 on: January 26, 2019, 06:43:58 am »
I’m well aware of the history of US interference in South America, as is Kat who refers to the Monroe doctrine in her excellent post.

The question is whether the evidence feels like the overthrow of Allende, or the installation of the Shah. The answer is no, it doesn’t.

I doubt it did at the time either. That can only be judged with hindsight but the record of the US intervening in South America and elsewhere can be viewed with examples from the past and it is bloody and divisive, not only with Chile and Allende. I don't need to list examples as everyone on here seems to have a decent grasp of history, though we obviously come with different perspectives.

I don't believe the US is acting benevolent. There is not a single example of that. The same thing is happening now with Brazil.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #230 on: January 26, 2019, 04:14:18 pm »
.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #231 on: January 27, 2019, 01:15:55 pm »
This BBC documentary on the legacy of Chavez and the calamity in Venezuela is good. Some great interviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=rzWjRRPpfu8
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #232 on: January 27, 2019, 09:53:01 pm »
https://twitter.com/richardburgon/status/1089620500882558976?s=21

The stupid fucks in the Labour Party have learnt how to sign a letter

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #233 on: January 27, 2019, 11:01:41 pm »
So I was speaking to a Venezuelan over the weekend (in Barcelona, which is home to an ever increasing number of Venezuelan's, with a few anti-Maduro rallies taking place in the city over the weekend) whose whole family is still in Venezuela where he sends home 50 Euros a month to his mum. He says by the end of the month that 50 Euros is completely worthless, but it is still enough for his mum to get by. The picture he painted is obviously bleak, and he said the break down of society was as bad as the economic collapse (he said no one trusts anyone and he was robbed by one of his childhood friends).

He said there is about 10-15% of the country that still backs Maduro, and said that last week armed groups from the slums had helped kill protestors, and other groups from the slums were attacking police.

He said that he did not trust Guaido, and that he was probably in thrall to big money interests, but that he also provides the only minute glimmer of hope that Maduro might go. That said he also said that his biggest fear now is a civil war.

What worries me is that Western politicians and the media are gearing up popular backing for a regime change, and for as long as Maduro has the backing the army and at least some of the population that will only mean civil war. Venezuela right now is probably as bad as a country can get in peace-time, short of catastrophic natural disaster. That does not mean that things can't get a whole lot worse. The British government should've learned from Syria that giving dictators unwilling to let go of power arbitrary deadlines is not how to deal with these situations. Turning a dangerous tyrant into a caged animal fearing for its survival never ends well.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 11:16:22 pm by Indomitable_Carp »

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #234 on: January 27, 2019, 11:19:42 pm »
Problem is the alternative which isn’t exactly great, so basically is two shit options, only positive of western intervention to get rid of Maduro is that it will probably be pretty fast

Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #235 on: January 28, 2019, 07:00:41 am »
Problem is the alternative which isn’t exactly great, so basically is two shit options, only positive of western intervention to get rid of Maduro is that it will probably be pretty fast
Western intervention won't get rid of Mad Uro. The people of Venezuela will.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #236 on: January 28, 2019, 07:23:48 am »
https://twitter.com/richardburgon/status/1089620500882558976?s=21

The stupid fucks in the Labour Party have learnt how to sign a letter

Corbyn not one of the signatories? Interesting. And a few tweets down, this is apparently doing the rounds:

Redcountessa #JC4PM2019
‏ @Redcountessa
9h9 hours ago
Replying to @RichardBurgon @guardian

Here we go again!




Why the Israeli flag? Nothing like an added dose of Global Jewish conspiracy to your standard simplistic world view. And what is Ukraine doing on there?
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #237 on: January 28, 2019, 07:43:32 am »
   Junius (@JudahJunius)
27/01/2019, 21:38
⁦‪@RichardBurgon‬⁩ ⁦‪@guardian‬⁩

El pueblo unido jamás será vencido.

(This is what we must show to the world.)

The people, the actual f*cking human beings, not some abstract concept...

Esto es lo que le debemos mostrar al mundo y lo que los chavistas de a pie tienen que ver. #23Ene, de Norte a Sur, de Este a Oeste #Venezuela pic.twitter.com/58PleZsY84

(This is what we must show the world and what the chavistas on foot have to do. # 23Ene, from North to South, from East to West #Venezuela pic.twitter.com/58PleZsY84)
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
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Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #238 on: January 28, 2019, 01:17:20 pm »
Could you stop saying there will be a civil war? It won't... if Maduro decides to use the armed forces (and the paramilitary groups created by the chavismo) which he has already done, there is no other side to fight back. There will be more of a massacre of the civilian population (genocide)

It is a scary scenario, but as a Venezuelan I do believe Guaido can bring a change and I'm in full support of this process. International recognition is a big step to move forward. The only ones who can overthrow Maduro are Venezuelans.

This is not a US attempt at changing government and by the way, it is the Venezuelan people saying enough to the dictatorship we're in. Dialogue sponsored by the Bolivian government and Mexican government? are you kidding me? The only possible dialogue is to see how Maduro will hand the government and the transition, new elections, etc. Really poor form from labour there. I've just read the position of that MP, and well... not a fucking clue.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 01:24:59 pm by Lady_brandybuck »
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #239 on: January 28, 2019, 01:31:42 pm »
Corbyn not one of the signatories? Interesting. And a few tweets down, this is apparently doing the rounds:
mcdonnell signed it which is fucking dumb of him

This is not a US attempt at changing government and by the way, it is the Venezuelan people saying enough to the dictatorship we're in. Dialogue sponsored by the Bolivian government and Mexican government? are you kidding me? The only possible dialogue is to see how Maduro will hand the government and the transition, new elections, etc. Really poor form from labour there. I've just read the position of that MP, and well... not a fucking clue.


if you want a good laugh go watch some Richard burgon interviews on YouTube