Topic: The barbarity that is Syria

[Yorkykopite]

Their lives as they know it are over.

They deserve to be.

I sort of hope they have a fair trial too, but I just won't be able to work up any great indignation if they don't. It would have been better if they'd been blown to smithereens on the battlefield.

[Peabee]

On humanitarian grounds I hope they get the kind of trial they believe in, captured and executed.  Send them to America, let Barbarians judge Barbarians.

No. They become ‘martyrs’ then. They should be given a fair trial.

[Kenny's Jacket]

No. They become ‘martyrs’ then. They should be given a fair trial.

They wont be Martyrs.  They are being punished for murder not because they hold a religious belief.

[So… Howard Philips]

They will be begging for ANY trial after a few months at a CIA Blacksite.

Will probably then end up in the Federal Supermax in Colorado

Their lives as they know it are over.

Have the Americans shown any appetite to extradite/try them?

My concern is the lack of availability of evidence against them. Their team mates probably won't turn Queen's Evidence, the vicxtims are obvioulsy dead so they would probably be acquitted due to lack of evidence.

I suppose Guantamono would do in these circumstances.

[classycarra]

Have the Americans shown any appetite to extradite/try them?

My concern is the lack of availability of evidence against them. Their team mates probably won't turn Queen's Evidence, the vicxtims are obvioulsy dead so they would probably be acquitted due to lack of evidence.

I suppose Guantamono would do in these circumstances.

News reports already stating that the pair of them are cooperating with useful information, so I don't think they're quite as sophisticated/loyal as all that! Very unsurprisingly more focused on self-preservation on their pathetic lives than on adhering to any 'brotherhood'/collective etc. - regardless of whatever dogmatic religious views they hold. Always amusing.

[So… Howard Philips]

News reports already stating that the pair of them are cooperating with useful information, so I don't think they're quite as sophisticated/loyal as all that! Very unsurprisingly more focused on self-preservation on their pathetic lives than on adhering to any 'brotherhood'/collective etc. - regardless of whatever dogmatic religious views they hold. Always amusing.

I thought they would fight to the death, no surrender and all that, like the Japanese in World War 2. But basically they are sadistic, bullying shithouses.

Hopefully after spelling their guts the Yanks fuck them over and they spend the rest if their lives in shit.

[cdav]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/world/europe/russia-syria-dead.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=

Dozens of Russians Are Believed Killed in U.S.-Led Syria Attack

Well this is worrying

[Broad Spectrum]

Even though the Kremlin changed the law during Ukraine crisis in 2015 to make battlefield casualties a secret, the funerals for regular soldiers killed in combat need to be more official than those for mercenaries.

There are no Russians in Syria, it's all a big conspiracy.

[Yorkykopite]

The carnage in Syria continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/20/eastern-ghouta-is-another-srebrenica-we-are-looking-away-again?CMP=share_btn_tw

[dalarr]

The carnage in Syria continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/20/eastern-ghouta-is-another-srebrenica-we-are-looking-away-again?CMP=share_btn_tw

It's been difficult to understand who's fighting who since the beginning. Government, rebels (not exactly a homogeneous group), Kurds, Turkey, Russian mercenaries, (insert-faction-here).

Seems like Syria has become a playground where armies can try out new weapons and sadistic, criminal scum can live out their fantasies. I remember when the protests started during the Arab spring and never in my life could I imagine how bad it was going to become.

[Yorkykopite]

It's been difficult to understand who's fighting who since the beginning. Government, rebels (not exactly a homogeneous group), Kurds, Turkey, Russian mercenaries, (insert-faction-here).

Seems like Syria has become a playground where armies can try out new weapons and sadistic, criminal scum can live out their fantasies. I remember when the protests started during the Arab spring and never in my life could I imagine how bad it was going to become.

It is confusing. But no one is more "sadistic" or "criminal" or "scum" than Assad. Islamic State have run him close of course. The Iranians have come to his aid and added to the anarchy, just as they did in Iraq. And the Russians have given him diplomatic cover and military support. But the Assad regime itself is the supreme criminal element.

Meanwhile the United Nations wrings its hands.

[rawcusk8]

Just seen this on the news, heartbreaking to see the Syrian people suffering and Assad and his pals showing no signs of letting up. Both sides pointing the finger at each other whilst the UN sit back and whisper for a ceasefire. What a messed up world we live in

[killer-heels]

Just seen this on the news, heartbreaking to see the Syrian people suffering and Assad and his pals showing no signs of letting up. Both sides pointing the finger at each other whilst the UN sit back and whisper for a ceasefire. What a messed up world we live in

Could lead to the end of the UN security council, if the comments by the French are to be believed.

[bigbonedrawky]

I see another Brit has died and an Ethnic mInority is currently been cleansed from the Afrin region in Syria by our Nato Allies... And the newly kitted-out Free Syrian Army 2.0  ( First piece of kit been razors and scissors ) .
Judging from the International response ie lack of coverage and outrage it looks like the Kurds have, once again been sold down the river... To a bunch of f*ck*ng Islamist. 

 

[The Gulleysucker]

I see another Brit has died and an Ethnic mInority is currently been cleansed from the Afrin region in Syria by our Nato Allies... And the newly kitted-out Free Syrian Army 2.0  ( First piece of kit been razors and scissors ) .
Judging from the International response ie lack of coverage and outrage it looks like the Kurds have, once again been sold down the river... To a bunch of f*ck*ng Islamist. 

 

No one cares about the Kurds.

They don't identify with Iran so the Iranians hate them.

They don't identify  with Turkey so the Turks hate them.

They don't identify with Iraq so the Iraqis hates them.

They don't identify with Syria so the Syrians hate them.

They don't identify with the Arab nations in general so all the Arabs hate them.

They're not Palestinians (who also hate them) so the right-on Left in the West don't give a shit about them.

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=9dde7502bb00e1b4676c27d7b5cd983b&topic=258742.msg6982648#msg6982648

and here ... https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=9dde7502bb00e1b4676c27d7b5cd983b&topic=316180.msg13771626#msg13771626


So I find it saddening that the only people in the UK who seem to have been organising protests about the situation over there in the ISIS threatened or occupied areas are the Kurds, a culture and people that in my view have probably suffered immeasurably more than the Palestinians over the years, and from all sides (Iraq, Turkey, Iran), but rather like the Marsh Arabs under Saddam, they seem to have few prominent friends here in the west willing to speak up for them.

Nothing has changed, they're still the forgotten people.

But I'll not forget them, nor the inaction and indifference and sometimes hostility to them by the very people here in the UK who you would have thought would be speaking up for the Kurds, I can only assume the reason being that Israel isn't somehow involved.

Shame on them.

[classycarra]

Excellent (and thoroughly depressing) posts Gulley, thanks for sharing them.

[The Gulleysucker]

Thanks.

They need a new Saladin (he was Kurdish).

[classycarra]

I thought I knew a bit about the persecution from all angles in the region, but was unaware of the intensity and flagrancy of the actions in the early 90s. Particularly the state using Hezbollah to kill them. Disgusting.

[TepidT2O]

Assad kills 70 with a chlorine gas attack...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43686157

And we let this filthy bit of scum carry on.

[RedSince86]

I think also the antagonism of the Kurds in the region is the bond between the Kurds and the Israelis.

The modern state of Israel has trained and armed the Kurds since the 60's,i think they the bond has been there since the days of the Assyrian empire.

Saw the news today about that chemical attack,simply disgusting and the UN are powerless to do anything while Russia is a permanent member of the Security Council,they will just use the power of veto just like the USA does if anything is brought up about it's ally Israel.

[TepidT2O]

Well, this brings into serious question the process of non intervention.

This has given license to scum like Assad (backed by Putin) to use chemical weapons.

This situation would not have been perfect if we had put troops on the ground to manage the conflict, but it is difficult to se how it could be any worse.


It’s terribky sad to see what we have allowed to happen.

[zero zero]

It’s terribky sad to see what we have allowed to happen.

I think this is misplaced. What are "we" supposed to do? Putting troops on the ground would have been unpopular both in the region and at home. Russia has consistently used its veto in the UN Security Council to stop anything meaningful happening through that route. Our NATO ally, Turkey has it's own agenda for the region (as is right from their perspective).

"We" are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

What has the Aab League done for their own region? They have the financial and military resources, but they've allowed this to happen to one of its member states.

[So… Howard Philips]

Well, this brings into serious question the process of non intervention.

This has given license to scum like Assad (backed by Putin) to use chemical weapons.

This situation would not have been perfect if we had put troops on the ground to manage the conflict, but it is difficult to se how it could be any worse.


It’s terribky sad to see what we have allowed to happen.

It certainly wouldn't be perfect for any of our troops on the ground, in the midst of a civil war.

I remember how Catholics initially welcomed British troops in NI. That turned out well.

ZZ is right. We haven't allowed it, we should have learnt our lesson now not to interfere.

If we did intervene more British troops killed with the added ingredient of more terrorist attacks.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Assad kills 70 with a chlorine gas attack...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43686157

And we let this filthy bit of scum carry on.

Absolutely tragic.

Fuck off Assad.

[TepidT2O]

It certainly wouldn't be perfect for any of our troops on the ground, in the midst of a civil war.

I remember how Catholics initially welcomed British troops in NI. That turned out well.

ZZ is right. We haven't allowed it, we should have learnt our lesson now not to interfere.

If we did intervene more British troops killed with the added ingredient of more terrorist attacks.

I don’t think any of these are reasons not to have intervened.

In Kosovo we avoided a disaster.  It worked.

I speak with the benefit of hindsight of course....  it’s never that easy looking forwards... 

And when I say ‘we’ I mean the democratic free world.  We have a responsibility.  ZZ mentions the Arab league nations... and I quite agree, they should have been the ones to act.  But they didn’t.  And we shouldn’t have let innocent people suffer on this scale because of it.

[TepidT2O]

Just in case anyone was wondering who the most vile, evil ones were here...

Look at this...

[So… Howard Philips]

There is a pattern were Assad, or as Trump now calls him "Animal Assad", and his backers use chemical weapons and just lie. Like Skripal, like Litvininko and the fellow travellers here will trot out the usual excuses and/or mitigation.

Let's see if Bolton encourages Trump to start bombing and what effect that will have.

Probably far to late now.

[TepidT2O]

There is a pattern were Assad, or as Trump now calls him "Animal Assad", and his backers use chemical weapons and just lie. Like Skripal, like Litvininko and the fellow travellers here will trot out the usual excuses and/or mitigation.

Let's see if Bolton encourages Trump to start bombing and what effect that will have.

Probably far to late now.

Far far too late...

And like everything with trump he’s blamed it on someone else, but sadly for him, he tweeted frequently about how Obama shouldn’t take military action.

And this is the problem.  Iraq was a collosal fuck up... but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t intervene elsewhere when needed.  We just need to be more certain and have a very clear plan...

[The North Bank]

Assad is far worse than Saddam Hussein ever was...

No Oil in Syria.

[OOS]

Assad is far worse than Saddam Hussein ever was...

No Oil in Syria.

Its nothing to do with oil...

[TepidT2O]

Assad is far worse than Saddam Hussein ever was...

No Oil in Syria.

Times have changed... that’s the reason.

There was no oil in the Balkan’s wither...

Or going back further we could site lebananon

[Yorkykopite]

Assad is far worse than Saddam Hussein ever was...

No Oil in Syria.

Actually Saddam had a worse record than even Assad and had already used chemical weapons on his own people. Plus he’d invaded and annexed a neighbouring land.

Both are butchers. The difference is that Assad is supported diplomatically and militarily by Russia, making the UN a broken reed.

The other difference is that the failure of the Coalition to prepare for and deal with the insurgency in Iraq after Saddam was deposed has lessened the appetite for getting involved in Syria. Plus, it seems, that the death of hundreds of thousands of people and the forced exodus of millions more simply doesn’t move people enough to want to help. Not really.

[Libertine]

The opportunity to intervene was there a few years back (before Russia got so directly involved). It wouldn't have needed huge groups on the ground, just the imposition of a no-fly zone (and subsequent destruction of Assad's air force and air defences if required) which would have put pressure on Assad to seek a solution (and the side effect of saving thousands of lives).

But the political will wasn't there (and to Labour's shame they vetoed any action with their Commons vote, and that was even before Corbyn).

The world will be living with the consequences for decades to come.


Seems like Israel is the only country doing anything to degrade Assad's forces (though for their own interests of course).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43694588

[puroresu_kid]

The opportunity to intervene was there a few years back (before Russia got so directly involved). It wouldn't have needed huge groups on the ground, just the imposition of a no-fly zone (and subsequent destruction of Assad's air force and air defences if required) which would have put pressure on Assad to seek a solution (and the side effect of saving thousands of lives).

But the political will wasn't there (and to Labour's shame they vetoed any action with their Commons vote, and that was even before Corbyn).

The world will be living with the consequences for decades to come.


Seems like Israel is the only country doing anything to degrade Assad's forces (though for their own interests of course).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43694588

Turkey, Saudia Arabia and Qatar could of ended it early.  They could of taken out Assad's air force pretty quickly for starters.

[So… Howard Philips]

Turkey, Saudia Arabia and Qatar could of ended it early.  They could of taken out Assad's air force pretty quickly for starters.

And there it is.

A regional solution. A great pity it didn't happen but they, like the West, didn't want to get embroiled in a civil war.

[killer-heels]

Trump has said he will decide within the next 24-48 hour as to what to do. From the sounds of it some milatary response is being planned, maybe involving other allies.

[cdav]

Article on the targeting of journalists early in the war:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/apr/09/assad-regime-assassinated-journalist-marie-colvin

This is as much an information war as well as a civil war- there is a key aim for Assad to stop the release of information on their war crimes and keep the horrors out of the news and people's minds in the West.

[Robinred]

There’s little doubt that the spectre of Iraq has impacted on the Syria problem.

There’s little appetite for action. Jeremy Bowen for one, is convinced we (the west) have missed the chance to act against Assad, and that Russia and Iran’s support has now made him far more difficult to remove.

Miliband and Corbyn, the two most recent Labour leaders, are weighed down by the legacy of the Iraq war.

[TepidT2O]

This thread is astonishing...

It consists of details of an interview of one of the ISIS Beatles... British terrorists.

https://twitter.com/jenanmoussa/status/982935563694215168?s=21

He’s quite happy with slavery but not parking tickets...

This man is a filthy excuse for a human being..

[Kenny's Jacket]

And there it is.

A regional solution. A great pity it didn't happen but they, like the West, didn't want to get embroiled in a civil war.

Doesnt seem to bother them in Yemen.