Topic: North and South Korea Vow to End Hostilities in Historic Accord

[Red Beret]

N Korea cancels talks with South Korea and warns US

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44133308

So that's pretty much what I said.

Let's see if Trump cancels the exercises and shows himself up to be a weak ass fanny who gets played by the most isolated country on Planet Earth.

You can't appease a dictator.  They will always demand more.

[killer-heels]

So that's pretty much what I said.

Let's see if Trump cancels the exercises and shows himself up to be a weak ass fanny who gets played by the most isolated country on Planet Earth.

You can't appease a dictator.  They will always demand more.

Why shouldn’t they be cancelled?

[Red Beret]

Why shouldn’t they be cancelled?

Because they're routine.  And NK routinely throws a hissy fit about them.

They're using the exercises as leverage to force concessions.  If the South wants to junk them let them make a request.  But you don't give in to a demand from the North to cancel them.

[killer-heels]

Because they're routine.  And NK routinely throws a hissy fit about them.

They're using the exercises as leverage to force concessions.  If the South wants to junk them let them make a request.  But you don't give in to a demand from the North to cancel them.

Yes South Korea should be the ones deciding whether to cancel them or not. But whilst there is this summit to take place, not sure why they cannot be delayed until then.

[Red Beret]

Yes South Korea should be the ones deciding whether to cancel them or not. But whilst there is this summit to take place, not sure why they cannot be delayed until then.

You can't just delay military exercises.  They take literally months of planning - it's a logistical nightmare. 

NK would have known these exercises were due months in advance; they're like clockwork.  A gesture of goodwill from them would have been not to kick up a fuss for once and show a little bit of maturity.  But they've reverted to type and threatened to take their ball home.  That alone justifies continuing the exercises because the North are showing they can't be trusted to follow through.

Sign the peace accord, meet with Trump (bloody hell, I just said that!) and then respectfully request a suspension of further exercises.  That's diplomacy.  What they've done is just more sabre rattling, and my guess is because they think they can squeeze something out of the orange turd.

[GBF]

You can't just delay military exercises.  They take literally months of planning - it's a logistical nightmare. 

yes you can.  Get those yanks and their death toys out of somebody's land and back to their shit hole

[killer-heels]

You can't just delay military exercises.  They take literally months of planning - it's a logistical nightmare. 

NK would have known these exercises were due months in advance; they're like clockwork.  A gesture of goodwill from them would have been not to kick up a fuss for once and show a little bit of maturity.  But they've reverted to type and threatened to take their ball home.  That alone justifies continuing the exercises because the North are showing they can't be trusted to follow through.

Sign the peace accord, meet with Trump (bloody hell, I just said that!) and then respectfully request a suspension of further exercises.  That's diplomacy.  What they've done is just more sabre rattling, and my guess is because they think they can squeeze something out of the orange turd.

That accord they signed talked about no provocative action against one another. That was last month and the South Koreans knew this would piss them off.

These are unheard of circumstances and for the sake of logistical problems they should be able to put them on hold like they did during the Olympics when they were due to take place.

[Red Beret]

yes you can.  Get those yanks and their death toys out of somebody's land and back to their shit hole

This isn't the Middle East.  America is present in South Korean territory at their request.  They don't bog off because NK demands it.  Oh and America isn't a shit hole so grow up a bit.

That accord they signed talked about no provocative action against one another. That was last month and the South Koreans knew this would piss them off.

These are unheard of circumstances and for the sake of logistical problems they should be able to put them on hold like they did during the Olympics when they were due to take place.

The North Koreans have always complained that these exercises are provocative; they see them as invasion preparations, whereas the South sees them as defensive in nature. 

South Korea doesn't have a million strong army and a thousand artillery pieces aimed at NK's capital.  The South hasn't deliberately sank NK ships.  You tell me which side has been the more provocative over the past 20 years.

Again, these exercises are routine.  The North knew they were coming.  I don't know what kind of contacts have been going on behind the scenes but we need a lot more from NK after years of threats and bluster before the South and the US can reasonably consider a moratorium on the exercises.

[killer-heels]

This isn't the Middle East.  America is present in South Korean territory at their request.  They don't bog off because NK demands it.  Oh and America isn't a shit hole so grow up a bit.

The North Koreans have always complained that these exercises are provocative; they see them as invasion preparations, whereas the South sees them as defensive in nature. 

South Korea doesn't have a million strong army and a thousand artillery pieces aimed at NK's capital.  The South hasn't deliberately sank NK ships.  You tell me which side has been the more provocative over the past 20 years.

Again, these exercises are routine.  The North knew they were coming.  I don't know what kind of contacts have been going on behind the scenes but we need a lot more from NK after years of threats and bluster before the South and the US can reasonably consider a moratorium on the exercises.

I am not saying that they have been more provocative but in this situation we have a North Korean regime looking to engage (whether genuinely or not) and the fact is that they do see them as threatening.

It’s either this or go back to threatening nuclear war with each other. With due respect to military logistics and the supposed rules of diplomacy, which has resulted in fuck all in Korea, I would rather see some positive outcomes to these talks.

[Red Beret]

I am not saying that they have been more provocative but in this situation we have a North Korean regime looking to engage (whether genuinely or not) and the fact is that they do see them as threatening.

It’s either this or go back to threatening nuclear war with each other. With due respect to military logistics and the supposed rules of diplomacy, which has resulted in fuck all in Korea, I would rather see some positive outcomes to these talks.

That's the thing though.  I don't think they DO see the exercises as threatening.  It's a political stance they've had for decades and it seems to be used as a propaganda weapon within their own nation to warn them of the threat the outside world poses to them.  They just can't help themselves.

Based on previous posts in this thread, NK have form for pulling this kind of stuff.  The onus is on them to show a willingness to change, and that they're making genuine overtures and not just empty gestures, not the other way around.

Setting aside Pence being a bad bellwhiff at the games, you can argue that Trump has already broken the mould when it comes to the diplomatic approach to NK - that he has sought to be more inclusive and give them some kind of global recognition and legitimacy.  But even that hasn't been enough.  NK continues to push push push to see what else it can get.  It's same old same old from them.

North Korea can change all of this by just ONCE not throwing a hissy fit over the exercises.  Such exercises can be rescheduled of course, even suspended given enough notice.  But until the diplomats see concrete reasons to do that they're not going to recommend it; and the exercises aren't cheap to stage either so I doubt very much anybody wants to flush several million dollars down the toilet just to make fat boy happy.

That's my take on it anyway.  Maybe some additional information will crop up that will change my mind.  Right now I don't see anything unreasonable from SK and the US.

[ShakaHislop]

North Korea turns on 'incompetent' South

North Korea says it will not resume talks with the South until issues between the two countries are resolved.

Its chief negotiator dismissed the South Korean authorities as incompetent and senseless. Pyongyang is angry at continuing US-South Korea joint military exercises.

Planned talks between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un have also been thrown into doubt.

South Korea has offered to act as a bridge between the two sides.

But that now looks less likely following North Korea's statement.

Chief negotiator Ri Son-gwon reverted to the angry language the north has used before, in comments reported by state news agency KCNA.

He also criticised the South Korean authorities for allowing "human scum" (a reference to a North Korean defector) to speak at the Seoul National Assembly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44158566

[Buggy Eyes Alfredo]

TOKYO (AP) — Japan’s Foreign Ministry said Tuesday that a Japanese navy surveillance aircraft has spotted a suspected Chinese-flagged ship apparently transferring fuel to a North Korean tanker on the open seas.

A ministry statement said that the two vessels were suspected of engaging in offshore ship-to-ship transfers banned under U.N. Security Council resolutions.

It said Japan has informed the U.N. Security Council of the May 19 sighting of the North Korean-flagged tanker, Ji Song 6, moored alongside the ship carrying a flag believed to be Chinese in open seas in the East China Sea.

Four photos taken by the Maritime Self-Defense Force were released, including two showing the ships alongside each other, connected by a hose.

The U.N. has blacklisted the North Korean tanker.

The disclosure of the alleged offshore transfer comes as preparations for an expected summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un appeared to be in their final stages.

U.N. sanctions on the North limit energy trade and ban offshore transfers of goods to North Korean ships as part of international efforts to pressure Pyongyang into giving up its nuclear weapons.

Japan and the U.S. have said the sanctions must be enforced strictly to be effective, and asked China in particular to tighten enforcement.

https://wtop.com/asia/2018/05/japan-navy-spots-suspected-china-ship-next-to-nkorea-tanker/

[Buggy Eyes Alfredo]

How to break stalemate on Korean Peninsula


Over six months after US President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un shook hands at a Singapore summit, progress in the peace process seems to be fizzling out. A new round of war of words has started between the US and North Korea after Washington imposed sanctions on three North Korean officials for human rights violations. How will this influence the stalled negotiations? Can South Korea mediate to make a breakthrough? Global Times (GT) reporter Yu Jincui talked to Moon Chung-in (Moon), Special Advisor for Foreign Affairs and National Security to President Moon Jae-in of South Korea, over these issues on the sidelines of the Third Understanding China Conference in Beijing.


GT: The US just imposed sanctions on three North Korean officials for human rights violations. Washington is still sticking to its policy of exerting maximum pressure. How will this influence the resolution of the peninsula issue?

Moon: That's very negative. The US position has been sanctions and maximum pressure. The Trump administration hasn't deviated from this. North Korea wants it to change, but there is no change. Given the fact that the US has imposed sanctions on three North Korean leaders, this will serve as a negative factor in resuming dialogue between Washington and Pyongyang.

The US has asked us to slow down inter-Korea exchange and cooperation by fine-tuning it with US-DPRK relations. We have agreed. We decided to form a working group with the US for synchronizing inter-Korea relations and US-DPRK relations. But we hope that the US and North Korea will take some bold measures so that there could be some new momentum. If the current trend continues, the outlook for 2019 is not likely to be bright. Negotiations are all about give-and-take. North Korea should take some bold and concrete measures for denuclearization and the US should also offer corresponding incentives to North Korea by relaxing sanctions. Such exchange will produce a significant breakthrough. As long as both the US and North Korea take non-compromising position, breakthrough is unlikely. 

South Korea has been working very hard at mediating between Washington and Pyongyang, but the two parties so far have been too rigid. There should be words for words, commitments for commitments and actions for actions, but both sides are lacking actions. It's time for them to take actions.

GT: President Moon Jae-in earlier suggested North Korean leader Kim Jong-un visit Seoul before the end of this year, which seems very unlikely now. What are the main obstacles for Kim's visit to Seoul?

Moon: If Chairman Kim visits Seoul, he should bring something back to Pyongyang. For example, North Korea wants the Kaesong Industrial Complex and the Mt. Geumgang Tourist Project to reopen. It also wants some tangible economic benefits from South Korea. But South Korean government's position is: Until real progress is made in the direction of denuclearization, we will comply with the UN Security Council sanction resolutions. Chairman Kim might think it's not the right time to visit Seoul.

The ideal scenario is that Kim would have a second summit with Trump, and our president would join them in signing the end of war declaration, and afterward Chairman Kim visits Seoul. By then there could be some relaxation of UN Security Council sanction resolutions and we could expect a real progress in inter-Korea economic exchanges and cooperation. But that has not been the case.

GT: How do you view the prospect of a second Trump-Kim summit?

Moon: Trump said he is willing to have a summit with Kim sometime in January or February. Let's wait and see. We are hoping the two leaders meet soon.

Kim Yong-chol, vice chairman of North Korea's ruling Workers' Party Central Committee and US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo were supposed to meet, but the meeting didn't take place. If they had met, they could have made some important decisions, lending new momentum to denuclearization and peace on the Korean Peninsula. But it's a pity it didn't happen.

North Korea's position is very clear: It has dismantled the Punggye-ri nuclear test site, and it is willing to dismantle the Dongchang-ri missile engine testing site in the presence of American experts and to permanently do away with nuclear facilities in Yongbyon if the US takes corresponding measures in accordance with the letter and spirit of the June 12 US-DPRK Singapore Declaration signed by Kim and Trump. But the US position has been very persistent: Without complete denuclearization, there will be no relaxation of sanctions, which North Korea cannot accept.

China has proposed a simultaneous exchange based on the principle of action for action. But the US position is "you denuclearize first, then we will come up with some incentives." North Korea hasn't taken up that proposal, and consequently a stalemate has continued.

GT: What role can China play in the resolution of the North Korea nuclear issue? Some argued that given the inter-Korean summits and Trump-Kim meeting, China's role has been undermined. What's your take?

Moon: No. I do not agree. President Xi Jinping has played a very important role in changing Kim's attitude, and China's role should never be underestimated. Without three meetings between Xi and Kim, Kim's positive assertive moves would have never been possible. Now it's time for China to play a more active role in not only persuading Washington to make some bold concessions in return for North Korea's good behavior, but also fostering Pyongyang to move fast toward denuclearization. Because of ongoing trade frictions with the US, Xi might not be in a position to persuade Trump, but I still think President Xi can play a pivotal role in breaking the current stalemate.

GT: Your argument in May regarding the presence of US troops in South Korea after the signing of a peace treaty sparked a controversy. What's your take on the issue now?

Moon: What I said in the Foreign Affairs article is that it will be difficult to justify the continuing presence of American troops in South Korea after the adoption of a peace treaty. I didn't identify the subject. What I had in mind is that it would be very difficult for the US and South Korea to justify continuing presence of American troops after the adoption of the treaty.

After I wrote that article, President Moon made it very clear that American forces in South Korea and ROK-US alliance have nothing to do with signing an end of war declaration and peace treaty. I agree with him because the ROK-US alliance is a sovereign matter between Seoul and Washington. But the reality is very difficult, particularly for the American side. If there is a lasting peace in Korea, how can the US justify its continuing military presence in South Korea?

GT: China-South Korea relations have suffered after the deployment of Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system in South Korea. How do you comment on the current state of bilateral relations? What are the opportunities and challenges ahead next year?

Moon: I think bilateral relations have improved since late last year. Our government, which has promised not to have additional THAAD deployed in South Korea, said it will not join the America-led theater missile defense system in Northeast Asia, and will not consider any kind of military alliance involving US, Japan and South Korea. The Chinese government is satisfied with the announcement.

Regarding the North Korea issue, President Xi has three principles: promoting peace and stability on the peninsula, denuclearizing the peninsula and the peaceful resolution of all pending issues through dialogue and negotiation. These principles are completely shared by President Moon. China has proposed a double suspension and simultaneous exchange based on principle of action for action. They are very similar to South Korea's strategies.

To promote relations next year, first we should overcome the negative repercussions of the THAAD issue such as personal exchanges and restrictions on South Korean firms' economic activities in China. And we should encourage more Chinese tourists to come back to South Korea and more South Koreans to visit China. As for the North Korea issue, as I have said, Chinese proposals and South Korean proposals are almost identical. I don't see any problem.

Another issue is US-China trade friction. Our government's position is that we should return to the multilateral trading regime, strengthen the World Trade Organization, and oppose any form of protectionism, which is very similar to China's stance.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1132832.shtml

[ABZ Rover]

Kim Jong Un-well?

[24/7]

Kim Jong Un-well?

[Gerry Attrick]

Kim Jong Un-well?

#KIMJONGUNDEAD is trending on Twitter. Made me look twice

[Daniel Cabbaggio]

Kim die jong?

[Gerry Attrick]

Kim die jong?

Is that the next big thing coming through at Ajax?

[ABZ Rover]

#KIMJONGUNDEAD is trending on Twitter. Made me look twice

He’s a zombie!!!!!

[AndyMuller]

Is he dead or alive?

[24/7]

Is he dead or alive?

Dunno but the constant rumours spin me right round, baby, right round, like a record, baby...

[Daniel Cabbaggio]

Trying to sift through it, something's likely happened. The fact that after days of initial rumours chinese doctors were then reported to have checked on his status surely hasn't came out of the blue.

But who knows? Tmz are a bunch of fucking scumbags but tend to get the scoop on deaths

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Is that the next big thing coming through at Ajax?

 

[Red Beret]

Wonder if he came down with COVID 19, or if it's just health complications that come with being the only fat person in North Korea? Might even be both. Overweight people are at greater risk after all.

[J-Mc-]

Wonder if he came down with COVID 19, or if it's just health complications that come with being the only fat person in North Korea? Might even be both. Overweight people are at greater risk after all.

Botched heart surgery apparently according to all reports.

[Robinred]

Botched heart surgery apparently according to all reports.

‘Botched’ ? or something else🤫

[Cruiser]

Rumours coming in he drank a bottle of Clorox bleach

[RedSince86]

Those surgeons 

His whackjob sister scares me.

[Gerry Attrick]

Those surgeons 

His whackjob sister scares me.

I don't know what you mean

[BarryCrocker]

I don't know what you mean

Donnies going to love her.

[Iska]

It’s a great victory for equality.

[Dench57]

This would be very progressive of North Korea. Great to finally see more women dictators.

[Iska]

And from a minority too.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

And from a minority too.

the Labour Party could learn from this

[west_london_red]

The world needs a female dictator 

Wouldn’t say no.

[Gerry Attrick]

Wouldn’t say no.

Only because you'd disappear without trace if you did.

[ShakaHislop]

North Korean media publishes letter from Kim Jong Un to South Africa's President dated April 27

Seoul (CNN) North Korean state media on Monday published a letter from the country's leader Kim Jong Un to South African President Cyril Ramaphosa congratulating him on Freedom Day.

CNN has no way of independently verifying the authenticity of the letter and has reported conflicting beliefs by various government officials on Kim's health condition in the past week.

The message was dated April 27, 2020, KCNA reported, as speculation mounted over Kim's health after he missed the celebration of his grandfather's birthday on April 15.

In the letter addressed to Ramaphosa, the North Korean leader expressed his certainty that the two nations' friendship would unendingly expand and develop, in addition to referencing Freedom Day, a public holiday celebrated in South Africa on Monday.

On Sunday, South Korean presidential adviser Moon Chung-in told CNN that the North Korean leader was "alive and well" despite speculation about his wellbeing. The adviser to South Korean President Moon Jae-in said Kim had been staying in the Wonsan area on the country's east coast since April 13, adding: "No suspicious movements have so far been detected."

A website specializing in North Korean affairs published satellite images on Saturday that researchers said showed a train, "probably belonging to Kim Jong Un," which had been parked at a railway station serving Kim's luxurious Wonsan compound on the country's eastern coast since at least April 21.

Last week, a US official with direct knowledge told CNN the US was monitoring intelligence suggesting that Kim was in grave danger after surgery. Another US official told CNN on Monday that the concerns about Kim's health were credible, but the severity was hard to assess.

It followed a report by Daily NK, an online newspaper based in South Korea that focuses on North Korea, that Kim reportedly received a cardiovascular procedure because of "excessive smoking, obesity, and overwork." The news outlet said the leader was receiving treatment in a villa in Hyangsan County, north of Pyongyang.

After assessing that Kim's condition had improved, most of the medical team treating him returned to Pyongyang on April 19 while some of them remained to oversee his recovery, according to the news site. CNN was unable to independently confirm the report.

This is the fourth notice in the country's state media of routine state duties carried out by Kim since April 12 when reports first surfaced that Kim may be unwell.

On Sunday, North Korean state newspaper Rodong Sinmun said Kim sent thanks to workers who helped in remodeling the city of Samjiyon in North Korea. CNN could not independently confirm the authenticity of Sunday's report and whether the note of thanks came directly from the leader.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/27/asia/kim-jong-un-health-letter-south-african-president-intl/index.html

[McrRed]

The tale of Schrödinger's Dictator continues

[damomad]

How does someone with all that power/money not have a personal dietician/ trainer. Is it a case of his subordinates being afraid of mentioning that he maybe could lose a few pounds?

[ChaChaMooMoo]

How does someone with all that power/money not have a personal dietician/ trainer. Is it a case of his subordinates being afraid of mentioning that he maybe could lose a few pounds?

In some cultures, if a person is fat, its considered being/doing well. Like, they don't have any problems with respect to food and stuff, thereby implying they are doing good.