Topic: The Irish Politics Thread.

[Corkboy]

Found this outside my work. So much insanity....

[Ray K]

Found this outside my work. So much insanity....

John Le Carre's first draft at a Smiley novel was rejected by the publishers until he came up with a snappier title.

[fowlermagic]

Six years after Savita Halappanavar avoidable death and 26 years since the X case we are still debating whether or not a Dr can terminate a pregnancy when an abortion is inevitable anyway. I cant remember what exactly happened again with Savita but from memory they needed a certain amount of experts / Drs to agree if the abortion was ok and those Drs were not available so the whole saga went on for a week before she died. Six years on and they are getting around to doing something. Fuck me sideways how slow does our government work...using the word work very loosely in regards to politicians.

[Chip Evans]

http://crowdfund.togetherforyes.ie/

If you can afford it, and are on the side of Repeal be cool if you throw a couple of euro into the kitty here.  Anti-choice/Pro-life side seems insanely well funded, they have posters, leaflets canvassers - the works on a daily basis. Repealers could be doing with a hand making it a fair fight. Feel free to send it on.

Side note: Sister had salt thrown at her on Repeal stand the other afternoon.  Pro-life literally treating women asking for healthcare and human rights at home as witches.  It's getting weirder by the day.
 

[Sarge]

This Abortion ref is going to get very very dirty, sooner the better its done and dusted.

[Corkboy]

Where are you on the issue, Sarge?

[Sarge]

Where are you on the issue, Sarge?

Will Vote Yes but the 12 weeks sits with me.

[Billy The Kid]

I have to say, I think some of the abortion referendum posters that are currently being hung up around the country (by both the YES and NO camps) are an utter fucking disgrace. If ever you needed evidence of just how embarrassingly parochial and backward this country still is when it comes to debating complex issues then you only have to look at some of the complete and utter reductionist fuckology currently being plastered all over the nations lamp posts

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the topic of abortion is hugely important and significant to many people. I also understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion and every person has a right to campaign. But the lengths both camps are going to in order to ram their point of view down peoples throats is way to excessive. I was sitting having lunch today and peered out the window to see a poster of a mutilated foetus captioned with the words "VOTE NO".

Who ever came up with that, and who ever ok'd it are fucking cretins IMO.

[Corkboy]

Any examples of the YES side, Bill?

[Zimagic]

-

About the best one I've seen is on FB pretty much saying "I'm not for abortion, but I am for what you chose to do with your body being none of my f**king business. Vote yes."

The rhetoric for the No campaign that there will be rivers of blood in the streets from the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of little souls is just shock-mongering and should be treated for the drivel it is.

Voting yes won't make it easier on women to go through the harrowing process of abortion or living through the guilt that comes with it. It will clear up some abominal legal bullshit victimising people who, in the vast majority, are already victims of unpunished (and, thanks to the glorious Irish legal system, practicably unpunishable) abuse.

Put me in the situation where I or a close family have to make the choice, I want there to be a real choice to make. I have no idea what we'd decide (and hopefully we'll never be in that situation) but the "choice" between prison and not being allowed to chose at all is barbaric in this day and age.

[Sarge]

Any examples of the YES side, Bill?

Not sure if the Yes side had a poster on the said lamp post?

[Corkboy]

Not sure if the Yes side had a poster on the said lamp post?

He said both sides.

[Sarge]

He said both sides.

He did, where do your thoughts lay in this?

[Corkboy]

He did, where do your thoughts lay in this?

I'm pretty pro choice, for pretty much any reason. I think it's entirely a matter for the woman, or the parents, as the case may be.

Regardless of one's views however, there are some realities about abortion. Abortion, in this day and age, is effectively available to women in Ireland. They simply have to take a short trip to the UK. To that extent, being anti abortion in Ireland is pious, not-in-my-back-yard stuff. Next, the legality of abortion worldwide does affect the outcomes. Countries where abortion is legal tend to have fewer abortions, largely because such a policy tends to go hand in hand with easy access to contraception. In countries where abortion is illegal, the abortion rate stays roughly the same, but the maternal death rate tends to increase. Those are the facts, so I don't give a shit why people are anti abortion because if they say they're interested in better societal outcomes, they're fucking lying.

[Libertine]

Varadkar makes it onto Time's 100 most influential people in the world list.

http://time.com/collection/most-influential-people-2018/5217627/leo-varadkar/

Though in some dodgy company there......

[Sarge]

I'm pretty pro choice, for pretty much any reason. I think it's entirely a matter for the woman, or the parents, as the case may be.

Regardless of one's views however, there are some realities about abortion. Abortion, in this day and age, is effectively available to women in Ireland. They simply have to take a short trip to the UK. To that extent, being anti abortion in Ireland is pious, not-in-my-back-yard stuff. Next, the legality of abortion worldwide does affect the outcomes. Countries where abortion is legal tend to have fewer abortions, largely because such a policy tends to go hand in hand with easy access to contraception. In countries where abortion is illegal, the abortion rate stays roughly the same, but the maternal death rate tends to increase. Those are the facts, so I don't give a shit why people are anti abortion because if they say they're interested in better societal outcomes, they're fucking lying.

Agreed plus nimbyism at best and an English solution to an Irish problem.

[MBL?]

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-microchipping-irish-border-brexit/

The question here is, Will we have to pay for the micro chips?

[MBL?]

Actually just thinking about that now... Where has this fella heard this as a solution? Probably just made it up I suppose but you would have to wonder at what these brexit fucks think of us.

It's not a small minority of them who think we should do as told from what I can gather. I'm not saying they all think we should be micro chipped but it has shocked me since this whole border thing entered their thick heads that we are an underclass/subject. I thought that this sort of stuff was in the past but sure fuck it, the good Saturday night out paper is old so who cares cause it means nothing.

[Macphisto80]

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-microchipping-irish-border-brexit/

The question here is, Will we have to pay for the micro chips?

Microchips? Does he think we're dogs?

Fucking hell.

O’Brien though, he's making a lot of assumptions there at the end.

[Macphisto80]

Where has this fella heard this as a solution?

Sounds like something from "the final solution". It's definitely got an ominous undercurrent of some kind of backward far right thinking to it, whether he's aware of it or not is another question.

[Sarge]

Microchips? Does he think we're dogs?

Fucking hell.

O’Brien though, he's making a lot of assumptions there at the end.

Its getting more bizarre and fucking silly by the day, The Tories and Co are looking like a bunch of clueless sinpletons in all this. Te Irish Government are playing it well and thats me praising them.

[Sarge]

Interesting indeed:

Sinn Fein holding 18-22% a long time now have to be delighted.
Fianna Fail HQ will be sweating.
Fine Gael must be happy enough.
Labour no longer a force in Irish politics.
Indos will take a pasting as will smaller Parties ie. pbp, Solidarity, AA, SDs.

[Ray K]

John Waters losing his shit on the Eamon Dunphy podcast is hilarious.  Not that I'd want to inflict John Waters on anyone, but go to the 12:30 minute mark for a hissy fit to end all hissy fits.

https://soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-167a-8th-amendment-referendum-john-waters-no

[Corkboy]

That's brilliant.

[Macphisto80]

"You're a bollox, you're a fucking bollox. You can fuck off, Eamon!"

[FlashGordon]

And he's even on his side to make it better. Can't wait till this is done and yes has won. We're slowly but surely dragging our country to the 21st century.

[KERRYKOP]

Hasnt been that livid since he came last at Eurovision

Prick

[paulrazor]

Waters and Dunphy was gas

[thejbs]

My wife was down in Dublin the other day with a friend and couldn't believe the vitriol on the streets towards Yes campaigners.  People stopping to give out to them, an old woman calling them 'vicious murderers' after taking a Yes sticker, crumpling it and throwing it to the ground.

For me, there's no question at all. Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion.  It's pro-dignity and humanity to those who have to or want to abort. Abortion is a reality for Irish women, they just make them suffer the shame and indignity of having to travel to England at a time when they're vulnerable and should be around their families.

Of all the WTF moments during the campaign, it's a two-way tie for me between:
1) Those claiming that GAA teams will struggle to get players in future if abortion is allowed and
2) The 20 men who erected a 'no' banner on Ben Bulbin mountain in Sligo who proudly claimed: "there were women there as well, making tea and sandwiches."

[Sarge]

Cora Sherlock of Love Both and Maria Steen of The Iona Institute have pulled out of tonights debate and tomorrows debate on Pat Kenny.

Very odd indeed.


Plus two awful murders in Ireland this week.

[killer-heels]

My wife was down in Dublin the other day with a friend and couldn't believe the vitriol on the streets towards Yes campaigners.  People stopping to give out to them, an old woman calling them 'vicious murderers' after taking a Yes sticker, crumpling it and throwing it to the ground.

For me, there's no question at all. Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion.  It's pro-dignity and humanity to those who have to or want to abort. Abortion is a reality for Irish women, they just make them suffer the shame and indignity of having to travel to England at a time when they're vulnerable and should be around their families.

Of all the WTF moments during the campaign, it's a two-way tie for me between:
1) Those claiming that GAA teams will struggle to get players in future if abortion is allowed and
2) The 20 men who erected a 'no' banner on Ben Bulbin mountain in Sligo who proudly claimed: "there were women there as well, making tea and sandwiches."

Has there been any opinion polling on this vote?

[Libertine]

Has there been any opinion polling on this vote?

All shown a comfortable lead for repeal, though with a large undecided vote (and the fear of another Brexit/Trump vote).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-sixth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2018_(Ireland)#Opinion_polling

You'd think it would need to be a polling failure unlike any other though for it to lose now.

[KERRYKOP]

Has there been any opinion polling on this vote?

Latest poll has Yes 56% and No 27% and 14% don't knows

The trend in Ireland and assume most other places is don't know swings with the status quo, so everyone needs to get out there and vote.

I canvassed for Yes on the Northside of Dublin and thankfully didn't come across any hostility on the couple of nights I went out, but I was confronted by a man on the Dart who saw my Yes badge. He asked me did I know "I was voting for baby murder", I replied "mate, I wish I had all the answers" and moved to another seat.

The behavior of the No side as expected has been disturbing. I've tried my best to shut them out.

[Corkboy]

I canvassed for Yes on the Northside of Dublin and thankfully didn't come across any hostility on the couple of nights I went out, but I was confronted by a man on the Dart who saw my Yes badge. He asked me did I know "I was voting for baby murder", I replied "mate, I wish I had all the answers" and moved to another seat.

I do have all the answers. The correct answer in that instance was "why don't you shut your fucking hole?"

[Chip Evans]

Any opinions on the primetime debate? Less of a shitshow than Claire Byrne last week.  Weird having only 2 lads doing the debate.

No's back door tactic of trying to only have Maria Steen speak for them by replacing Cora Sherlock at the last minute backfired a bit, she's pulled out of Pat Kenny tonight too?

Only funny moment of the night was Harris slyly out Brits Outting the Sinn Fein guy on national TV. 

The ding dong between the 2 psychiatrists was the most telling point for me.  The psychiatrist representing Repeal telling it like it is about unwanted pregnancy and mental health - it's the giant elephant in the room for most undecided people in relation to the 12 weeks I think. Given the loopholes in the UK legislation, and the stats for reasons for termination in the UK etc...

It's part of a wider problem for Ireland, given our high suicide rate - a huge section of irish society don't look at mental health as health. You're supposed to grin and bare it in Ireland. That section of voters are potentially looking at termination in cases of the mental health of the mother as soft cases.  The attitude leads to the same reason people in other mental health situations won't talk about their problems - lost 2 family members to suicide in the very recent past. It has to stop. The No side trying to denigrate mental health is a big issue for me, and a worrying argument in the final days. 

[PROPER crazyemlyn72]

maria steen. why does she have to be so good looking. but batshit crazy? anyway cant wait for thhis shit to be over. im now looking for 2 big results on saturday.

[Zlen]

Passed by a 'No' campaigner in front of a train station this morning, groggy and lacking coffee. All I heard was 'Stop killing babies'.
First of they are foetuses, second of all they are being killed anyway - just not in Ireland, and finally go fuck yourself it's too early for sentences like that.

[Red-Soldier]

I hope for the sake of the people that they make the right decision by moving into the 21st century.

[Sarge]

Anyone watching Pat Kenny?

[Billy The Kid]

Anyone watching Pat Kenny?

Just turned it on