Author Topic: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount  (Read 43086 times)

Offline Jookie

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #800 on: March 5, 2021, 12:33:34 am »
My head is wrecked with this shit. No idea how big Jurgs is feeling.

Seems loads f things wrong and no simple fix
« Last Edit: March 5, 2021, 12:55:16 am by Jookie »
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #801 on: March 5, 2021, 12:34:13 am »
My head is wrecked with this shit. No idea how by Jurgs is feeling.

Seems loads f things wrong and no simple fix

Sounds like he delivered a bollocking today.

Offline Tonyh8su

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #802 on: March 5, 2021, 12:34:46 am »
I've really let this affect my mood tonight. Gonna have to head to bed.

Bright spark would be for me, 30 odd points still to play for. I just hope the team starts fighting.

Bring on Fulham I guess.

Offline filopastry

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #803 on: March 5, 2021, 12:36:57 am »
True enough: a growing wage bill and declining contributions is a function of too many players ageing together. If it improves the team, there shouldn't really be any player in that age bracket I'd be too devastated at losing. Except VVD or the captain (one or two others I'd be particularly sad to lose).


COVID didn't do us many favours in terms of timing, you suspect there would have been a bit of a refresh last summer otherwise, but instead all clubs' incomes are down. the whole transfer market stagnates and you can't offload anyone to fund some new arrivals.

Hard to predict if this summer will be much better either, everyone coming off another reduced income season, although at least there is the possibility of a return to normality next year across European football.

Offline redmark

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #804 on: March 5, 2021, 12:37:07 am »
I agree but I wouldn’t just drop the defence and leave the midfield, I’d drop the midfield deeper with them. Literally play in our defensive third leaving zero space between the lines. As I said, like Houlliers teams used to do. The wider players are essentially central midfielders too whose main role is to protect the full backs. When we win it we have enough quality to look forward early and get our forwards in behind. It won’t be pretty but it could make us a lot tougher to break down and put less pressure on the centre backs.
Well... yes, it could do some of those things. It would also pose us other problems, and there's no guarantee we'll suddenly get that space in behind. I wasn't an enormous fan of the Houllier style :).

But of course it's really unlikely that Klopp is going to make that sort of drastic change; not least midseason, while confidence and energy are low but we're still in the CL. It might just as easily make us worse trying to make such significant changes.
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Online StigenKeegan

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #805 on: March 5, 2021, 12:37:15 am »
To me there will always be different ways of processing and analysing a a match. You can look at it through decisive moments or as a process/whole/tactical battle. From his interviews lately Klopp has been talking a lot about decisive moments. It's easy to point to a moment of quality from Mount and our poor finishing. For me, looking at the goal, it's easy to see how everything we're going through this season is baked into that moment. Mount is beating our DM being rushed back to be playing as a CD after 6 weeks out. His CD partner (sounds slightly kinky) is a youngster he's hardly even been on the training pitch with. YOu might even argue that he's playing RCD to accommodate his new partner while LCD is where he's most comfortable, this also means that he's not had a lot of gametime to build a defensive understanding with Trent. The ball is a long ball, arguably being successful due to our struggle to press and be compact, influenced by the ever changing lineups and missing our 2-3 most intense players from midfield. At this level mistakes will cost you, and our situation WILL produce mistakes.
On a more process oriented level I think we should remember what has been put forward as one of our greatest strengths and accomplishments over the last few seasons; the fact that this team has been much better than the sum of its parts, that it's been punching above it's weight with regards to investment in the team etc. One of the main reasons for this is that the team has been exceptionally, maybe even historically uniquely well CHOREOGRAPHED. The understanding between the players, in every phase of play, the synchronicity. To quote Salieri in "Amadeus" "take out one note and the structure falls". Imagine a dance troupe having to change a couple of members between each performance, not having time to rehearse properly between shows...  To me it's not about the front three not being on form, it's about the 11, the 17, the 22... It's about losing our competitive advantage. One might argue that with the quality of players we have we should still beat the likes of Fulham, WBA, but of course it's not an equal race. Essentially those teams dont have to beat us to win. It's not like a match is decided by a sprint between Salah and the oppositions fastest player, or a passing exercise between Thiago and their best passer. They're built to stop us. It's like Salah trying to win a sprint with two players clinging on to his feet. This might sound obvious, and you might argue that this is how it will always be for a top club but for me, in our current situation, that is missing the point somewhat. The point is that under Klopp "the system is the creator", and this season our system has been put under extraordinary stress. We try to keep the system, keep the faith but  due to the circumstances it's failing us, and due to the relentless schedule there really aren't any time to rehearse good alternatives, and due to, again mostly injuries, there hasn't been any options available to change it either. Case and point with the substitutions today. People are complaining about the lack of impact (why not Keita etc), but the reality is that to expect ANY of our subs to make an impact today wasn't very realistic; Jota back after three months, Ox hardly played all season, Milner at 35 not a game changer, Keita - no rhythm, out for a while, Origi not good enough etc... That's not anyone's fault, that's just our rotten luck.

It's not that I think it's fine or to be expected that we loose 5 in a row at home (or three, two) but I do think that instead of being angry or outraged about it and looking for something/one to blame (owners, manager, players - motivation, complacency, hunger, tactics, coaching, game management) we should view these extraordinary and horrendous results mainly as a perfectly reasonable  result of the extraordinary and horrendous circumstances we find us in this season. Not the ONLY possible outcome given our situation but certainly not completely unacceptable or as a sign of incompetence in any part of the club.

This will be a new team next season. It will be mighty and dominating. We wouldn't even have to sign a single player to get there (but I still think we could do with a few signings/changes)

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Offline Red James

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #806 on: March 5, 2021, 12:38:16 am »
At least we can't get relegated.

Offline StevoHimself

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #807 on: March 5, 2021, 12:38:30 am »
A lot of people on here would have actually lambasted you for saying Karius wasn’t good enough back then, luckily for us our management and football in general is a lot more ruthless and realistic. It’s not fans livelihoods on the line after all, support should be our first most important remit, there is a balanced to be had though especially since we’re on a forum and not say Anfield itself.

Yeah, it's definitely a sort of weird abstraction. After all, had we stuck with Karius, for example, what difference would it have made to me? I'd still have supported him. No Liverpool fan is secretly wishing the players ill. It's about being as reasoned as possible, even in criticism. The empty ground thing is an interesting point, but I think Klopp knows what he means to us as fans.

It's why I sometimes feel uncomfortable when people on here get on their high horse when someone who is clearly just upset with a result implies something about Klopp or the players. When you're on a run as bad as this a certain level of criticism is to be expected.

Offline Higgins79

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #808 on: March 5, 2021, 12:40:22 am »
No doubting Gini’s effort, but he ain’t no captain, and it what does it say to the dressing room when a splitter gets the armband?

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #809 on: March 5, 2021, 12:41:16 am »
I’d usually go with you but not today

Wasn’t just last 3rd. The pressingvv bf and effort simply wasn’t there

From that perspective I thought we were much better than a month or so ago when it really felt like we were sleepwalking through games and were letting average teams take points off us without having to play particularly well. We looked decent tonight in terms of effort and physicality but unfortunately came up against a team that was just an extra level above us in those terms. For me that's hardly a surprise given that the front 3 plus Gini and Robertson (plus TAA aside from his injury) have had to play pretty much every game all season, Jones is a very talented young player but still short of the physical robustness required to play lots of consecutive games at full tilt and Thiago is a player with bags of quality but isn't an athletic presence in the middle of the pitch.

In summary, my view of tonight's game was that we gave it a good go but just didn't have enough in the collective tank to really trouble Chelsea physically.

For me the players that we have seen playing since Christmas are pretty much at the end of their tether physically. I think us getting in the top 4 is relying on Jota and Keita being able to come back and both stay fit through to the end of the season to try and give us some of the energy we have been lacking. Jota looked very encouraging in the time he was one tonight. Who knows whether we can get the required minutes out of Keita without him breaking down again.   

Offline redmark

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #810 on: March 5, 2021, 12:43:11 am »
COVID didn't do us many favours in terms of timing, you suspect there would have been a bit of a refresh last summer otherwise, but instead all clubs' incomes are down. the whole transfer market stagnates and you can't offload anyone to fund some new arrivals.

Hard to predict if this summer will be much better either, everyone coming off another reduced income season, although at least there is the possibility of a return to normality next year across European football.
Absolutely. Obviously a lot of clubs are affected - and football is hardly the most important area of life - but it does feel like it hit us at a particularly key moment in the evolution of the team. On a positive note, we do have a manager and recruitment staff who've demonstrated their ability in competing with bigger spenders already; but we've probably shifted from being contenders for the biggest signings, back to the clever ones.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #811 on: March 5, 2021, 12:44:19 am »
No doubting Gini’s effort, but he ain’t no captain, and it what does it say to the dressing room when a splitter gets the armband?

Thats unfair. Gini has never quit on us.
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Offline Number 7

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #812 on: March 5, 2021, 12:45:04 am »
Really at a loss. Yet another game we could have played for 2 more hours and not scored.

I think the team is just gone. We will finish 6-9 IMO. Yes, they put in the effort but I don’t think there is any desire anymore. Mané is the perfect example of that. Just a complete shadow of the player he once was. It’s different to Bobby, he’s just done.
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Offline Dazzer23

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #813 on: March 5, 2021, 12:45:23 am »
I agree but I wouldn’t just drop the defence and leave the midfield, I’d drop the midfield deeper with them. Literally play in our defensive third leaving zero space between the lines. As I said, like Houlliers teams used to do. The wider players are essentially central midfielders too whose main role is to protect the full backs. When we win it we have enough quality to look forward early and get our forwards in behind. It won’t be pretty but it could make us a lot tougher to break down and put less pressure on the centre backs.

I'm with this 100% and we have as much pace as anyone on the break.

Not only that, but what do struggling teams do first to turn things around. They tighten up and become difficult to score against. It's exactly what Tuchel has come in and done!

It may not work. But 7 defeats in 9 would suggest the current system isn't working either, and at least it would give an opposing manager something to think about other than, all I need to do here is pack my defence and hit it long

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #814 on: March 5, 2021, 12:46:16 am »
What an absolute load of w#nk, first 25 minutes I thought Allardyce was our manager.
Mane and Alisson have turned into pub players, the lack of quality in the team is quite unbelievable.
Absolutely fuming with that tonight, might as well play the academy players surely they could have mustered more than one shot at goal.

Offline Dazzer23

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #815 on: March 5, 2021, 12:48:31 am »
Was it 0 shots on target?  Horrendous!

No, no there was Gini's blistering header that Mendy somehow miracously saved.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #816 on: March 5, 2021, 12:48:52 am »
I agree but I wouldn’t just drop the defence and leave the midfield, I’d drop the midfield deeper with them. Literally play in our defensive third leaving zero space between the lines. As I said, like Houlliers teams used to do. The wider players are essentially central midfielders too whose main role is to protect the full backs. When we win it we have enough quality to look forward early and get our forwards in behind. It won’t be pretty but it could make us a lot tougher to break down and put less pressure on the centre backs.
Anything but this current crap, problem is while our players just keep having brain farts the system doesn't matter.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #817 on: March 5, 2021, 12:51:02 am »
Absolutely. Obviously a lot of clubs are affected - and football is hardly the most important area of life - but it does feel like it hit us at a particularly key moment in the evolution of the team. On a positive note, we do have a manager and recruitment staff who've demonstrated their ability in competing with bigger spenders already; but we've probably shifted from being contenders for the biggest signings, back to the clever ones.

I think our signings may go a level down and what i mean by that is players around 21. We have done well getting proven players at 24 but maybe we target players at 21 who are not as proven but also cheaper.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #818 on: March 5, 2021, 12:55:11 am »
Anybody have any idea with the subs tonight (other than Jota) , Milner and Ox when we're 1 nil down?
Ox litterly brings nothing since his injury and Shaq has proven he can get at least create goals, Keita looked sharp the last game yet on comes Milner.
I just can't work it out.

Offline rkgriffin

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #819 on: March 5, 2021, 12:56:14 am »
Another bent as fuck referee shocker.

I'm genuinelly surprised they disallowed their goal.

I think they tried everything to allow the goal.  The image they use the ball hadn't even been kicked yet. Forward 1-2 frames when the ball is actually kicked and he is more offside. 

Offline redmark

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #820 on: March 5, 2021, 12:56:15 am »
I think our signings may go a level down and what i mean by that is players around 21. We have done well getting proven players at 24 but maybe we target players at 21 who are not as proven but also cheaper.
I'm absolutely fine with that, at this point. This squad needs more youth, even if some of them don't work out.

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Offline smig

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #821 on: March 5, 2021, 12:57:24 am »
Haven't heard the manager or a single player come out and say the run they're on is unacceptable. They're becoming a laughing stock every week. We haven't scored a goal at home from open play in about six games and he takes off the league's top scorer. I love Klopp but what the fuck is that about. Firmino needs to be dropped. He's not fucking good enough anymore. Change the system because we keep trying the same arl shite every week and lo and behold they get beat comfortably yet again.
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Offline rkgriffin

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #822 on: March 5, 2021, 12:57:40 am »
Anybody have any idea with the subs tonight (other than Jota) , Milner and Ox when we're 1 nil down?
Ox litterly brings nothing since his injury and Shaq has proven he can get at least create goals, Keita looked sharp the last game yet on comes Milner.
I just can't work it out.

Yeah I am a big Ox fan but he looks finished.  I hate when injuries just wreck a player. :(

Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #823 on: March 5, 2021, 12:58:59 am »
Also, why the fuck did someone not kick the shit out of Kovacic? Just an acceptance of defeat and giving up. Pathetic.

Gotta say that was the last straw for me. Seeing Mane have the ball booted in his face then watching absolutely nobody give a single fuck. Kick off, have Manes back, fucking scream at someone, have a go at the ref show some fucking fight. Nothing from anyone. Was horrible to see.

Offline redmark

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #824 on: March 5, 2021, 01:03:03 am »
Anybody have any idea with the subs tonight (other than Jota) , Milner and Ox when we're 1 nil down?
Ox litterly brings nothing since his injury and Shaq has proven he can get at least create goals, Keita looked sharp the last game yet on comes Milner.
I just can't work it out.
From what Klopp said, he prioritised energy and 'waking them up' over pure 'footballing' reasons. Ox injected a bit of urgency for a while (he made a couple of quick runs from deep I noticed, that defenders on the ball ignored, to pass to each other a few more times) and passed the ball with a bit more urgency than others had managed. I wanted Keita, but I suppose there may have been a view that his running with the ball would have been dealt with by Kante; Jota and Ox could run beyond and onto the ball. But we didn't make the passes, or made poor ones.
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Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #825 on: March 5, 2021, 01:06:36 am »
From what Klopp said, he prioritised energy and 'waking them up' over pure 'footballing' reasons. Ox injected a bit of urgency for a while (he made a couple of quick runs from deep I noticed, that defenders on the ball ignored, to pass to each other a few more times) and passed the ball with a bit more urgency than others had managed. I wanted Keita, but I suppose there may have been a view that his running with the ball would have been dealt with by Kante; Jota and Ox could run beyond and onto the ball. But we didn't make the passes, or made poor ones.

Mane should have been hooked, and can't believe Keita and Shaq wouldn't do better than Milner and Ox.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #826 on: March 5, 2021, 01:08:37 am »
Yeah I am a big Ox fan but he looks finished.  I hate when injuries just wreck a player. :(
Me to but he's shown nothing  to have been brought on in such an important game.

Offline redmark

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #827 on: March 5, 2021, 01:10:32 am »
Mane should have been hooked, and can't believe Keita and Shaq wouldn't do better than Milner and Ox.
Anybody out there could legitimately have been subbed, to be honest. We can all have our view of who would be a better option - like I said, Keita would have been one of mine - but was attempting to rationalise Klopp's, based on what he said (and what we seemed to half-try to do).
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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #828 on: March 5, 2021, 01:12:18 am »
We cant see the same thing again. Fabinho in defence, Jones, Wijnaldum and Thiago in midfield, same front three.

Things do need to change. Fucking Keita and Fabinho in midfield and 4 attackers on the field.
« Last Edit: March 5, 2021, 01:14:15 am by a treeless whopper »

Offline Robinred

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #829 on: March 5, 2021, 01:12:32 am »
No doubting Gini’s effort, but he ain’t no captain, and it what does it say to the dressing room when a splitter gets the armband?

Just when I thought this thread had reached rock bottom...
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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #830 on: March 5, 2021, 01:13:32 am »
The ''splitter'' was selected captain by his peers. Him and Van Dijk were voted by the players after Henderson and Milner. He's a tremendous character and influence.

The obsession with the armband is quite something though.

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #831 on: March 5, 2021, 01:14:03 am »
Just when I thought this thread had reached rock bottom...
You've got another half hour's posts to catch up on, yet :).
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Offline BER

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #832 on: March 5, 2021, 01:15:58 am »
Is this what a lobotomy feels like?

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #833 on: March 5, 2021, 01:18:11 am »
The grimmest thing about tonight was the game was effectively over once they went 1-0 up.....we've gone from fortress Anfield to looking like a group of players who now expect to lose every home game they play ..as if its somehow out of their hands, and they're powerless to do anything about it...losing 5 home games on the bounce is simply not acceptable for LFC regardless of injuries or the cocktail of other external factors...but listening to Jurgen and Robbo's postmatch comments id like to think tonight was rock bottom - and that a collective sense of hurt/shame/dented pride will see them finally snap the fuck out of it....we shall see, but for once I'm actually glad we've got another game in 3 days time....we need to right this wrong pronto....mightn't feel like it right now but there's still all to play for. Up the Reds

One of the grimmest things for me was the fact that I fully expected us to lose before the game even started. Once they went 1-0 up, I knew it was done. Same with the Bitters game too. I'm generally a really positive person these days, so it wasn't anything to do with just me being negative. It was simply based on what I see before me and the vibe it invokes within me. My gut usually serves me well, but sometimes I wish it didn't. It told me if we signed Klopp he'd win us the League Title. It told me after Kiev that we'd be back and win Big Ears. When we came second with 97 points my gut told me we'd come back the next season and win that too.

One thing it also told me is something I've never admitted on here because I couldn't believe it myself. After we lifted the Title last season, my gut told me we'd be lucky to even make top four this season. I dismissed it out of my mind because I couldn't believe it, didn't want to entertain the thought anyway and couldn't envisage a way in which we could implode so badly. Now, here we are, and I'm cursing my own gut reactions to things. It's the same gut feelings that saw me hoping we'd win tonight, but fearing what felt inevitable.

I have to say, I've read this thread from start to finish now, and it's sad to see good people in here turn on each other like some have. I get it though. We all care. We've all been living through a pandemic, life has been hard and our club feels like it's in free fall at the moment. Tensions boil over. It's normal in many respects, but still a bit sad to see. I hope we can stand back a little once we sleep on it and can be a little kinder to each other tomorrow.

We often can't win as fans. Some want to keep the flag upstanding as they run up the hill into a blaze of flak and want to hear nothing negative at all. To others, that might look good, but it all feels a bit too head-in-the-sand and too idealistic to be true. Others say what they see in an unfiltered way. By unfiltered, I mean sometimes without wider perspectives being taken into account. That can and will piss off the flag bearers who see it as without nuance and based in hysterics. The bottom line is both sets care passionately, but handle stuff in different ways.

I have a bit of both in me. I love the romance and the idea of getting shot to pieces as I run up the hill with my LFC banner, all guns blazing in 100% undying support, but there is another part of me that sees glaring issues and wants to name them as I see them. It's often said that if we can't support in tough times we shouldn't be there for the good times either. I get that, but I'm one of those annoying buggers that will support until my dying day, but will also name something wrong if I see it. Personally, I feel you can be a good supporter and still stare reality in the face and talk about it. With that in mind, I really don't see the need for there to be only two camps that appear to be polar opposites. Really, most of us occupy the middle ground where we can be good supporters but also honest too.

I think we've all been on one hell of a ride in recent years. I've seen a lot from LFC in my 58 years, but the last couple of seasons were almost off the scale. It felt like the best I've ever seen at times, and when I think of the great teams, great managers and the collection of trophies Liverpool have racked up since I hit this planet in 1962, that's really saying something. I thought I'd seen it all, then Klopp's Liverpool matured and ripped football a new backside.

Since then, look at what's happened. A catastrophic pandemic sweeps the planet and turns it upside down. Our manager loses his beloved mother and cannot bury her. Our goalkeeper's dad drowns at just 57 and he cannot go home to be with his family and bury his father. One is standing on a touchline of empty stadiums in a meaningless season and the other is keeping goal in the same circumstances after just a few days off. We'll I've lost a father and other loved ones, and no way on earth am I going to work days later and giving my all. Not because I don't want to give everything, but because I can't. We have human beings trying to do their jobs in a state of grief and emotional turmoil.

We've had other players who have had Covid. We've had serious injuries the likes of I've never seen in my entire life. We are a club/team that runs on adrenaline and passion, yet we have a soulless season without fans in grounds. We have a fanbase that offers fantastic vocal support when it's really needed, yet not a one can enter the ground to do so. We have men down, yet can do nothing to help lift them. It's a perfect storm, isn't it? VAR and horrifically inept officiating has helped disrupt our flow and hamper us at crucial moments. Anything that could go wrong, has gone wrong. It has been an endless stream of problems in a relentlessly tedious, freak anomaly of a season.

With hindsight, I think it all came at absolutely the wrong time football-wise too. We went absolutely flat-out for two seasons. By the end of last season we had gone from nearly-men to champions of England, Europe and the World itself. An absolute tidal wave of emotion was released. All that adrenaline had finally reached its peak and the balloon had been finally burst. We'd done it. Champions once more.

Now all of that, like the most amazing night out, often comes with a mega hangover. Thing is, rather than being able to sit back, relax a little, bask in the glory then sleep off the hangover, we basically had to get straight up at 7:30am on Sunday morning and hit the road running once again. We were done, but we had to start over again with no recovery time. Look at Abu Dhabi after they went flat-out for two seasons. Even though they had a full pre-season their goose was cooked. It took them well into this season to get back on track. After two flat-out seasons we had to pretty much go again straight away and hit the ground running from the off. With hindsight, it feels like an impossible task. With the wheels coming off in pretty much every other respect too, it's proved to be impossible too. Personally, I don't think we'll see anything resembling the real Liverpool until next season. Mind you, knowing Liverpool, it wouldn't surprise me if we somehow lifted Big Ears again to round off the most ridiculous season in history.

To be honest, I'd be happy to turn a number six into a seven, but I genuinely cannot even get excited over that possibility given the circumstances around football and life itself at the moment. I'm not sure anyone is actually enjoying the game at the moment. By that I mean those playing and managing in it just as much as those watching it. The whole thing feels like an exercise of going through the motions to fulfill contracts. Given the societal backdrop behind it all, I can hardly blame any of them for dropping intensity and application. Going through the motions when you are mentally and physically exhausted is bad enough. Going through it in current circumstances must be soul-destroying. Doing it whilst bereaved must be like a living hell.

For me, the season cannot end quick enough. I'm knackered, I know most of you out there are knackered, and it's obvious that Klopp and his magnificent team of champions are knackered too. They all deserve and need a proper break in order to recover, regroup and reset for next season. Then, I believe, will we see Liverpool back once more.





The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #834 on: March 5, 2021, 01:19:09 am »
The ''splitter'' was selected captain by his peers. Him and Van Dijk were voted by the players after Henderson and Milner. He's a tremendous character and influence.

The obsession with the armband is quite something though.
Thought he was our best player, did what he always does.
Super consistent player, one of the few who's level hasn't dropped.

Offline Robinred

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #835 on: March 5, 2021, 01:19:16 am »
You've got another half hour's posts to catch up on, yet :).


It’s the short memories and sense of entitlement from ‘supporters’ who just don’t deserve us, and Klopp, that makes me so dispirited. It’s really not the results - they’re a product of a host of circumstances that we’ve done to death.
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Offline B0151?

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #836 on: March 5, 2021, 01:21:49 am »
I don't know, I desperately wanted us to win but I don't feel that fury some people are

I personally didn't see anything in the performance to get angry about. We've lost numerous key players and we've forgotten how to win. The 2 years before it looked like we didn't know how to lose. It's unfortunate. It's not the end of the world.

It would be shit if we don't make top 4 but the biggest loss is still not having any fans in Anfield. And I don't mean from a performance point of view. I mean that I would take struggling for top 4 in front of a packed Anfield over competing with Abu Dhabi FC in empty stadiums all day. I'm looking forward to the prospect of that much more than I am us getting back to our winning ways. It's always been about supporting the Red Men through the ups and downs, through the shit to the moments of glory. I think we should remember that before getting too upset.

Offline kavah

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #837 on: March 5, 2021, 01:22:52 am »
To me there will always be different ways of processing and analysing a a match. You can look at it through decisive moments or as a process/whole/tactical battle. From his interviews lately Klopp has been talking a lot about decisive moments. It's easy to point to a moment of quality from Mount and our poor finishing. For me, looking at the goal, it's easy to see how everything we're going through this season is baked into that moment. Mount is beating our DM being rushed back to be playing as a CD after 6 weeks out. His CD partner (sounds slightly kinky) is a youngster he's hardly even been on the training pitch with. YOu might even argue that he's playing RCD to accommodate his new partner while LCD is where he's most comfortable, this also means that he's not had a lot of gametime to build a defensive understanding with Trent. The ball is a long ball, arguably being successful due to our struggle to press and be compact, influenced by the ever changing lineups and missing our 2-3 most intense players from midfield. At this level mistakes will cost you, and our situation WILL produce mistakes.
On a more process oriented level I think we should remember what has been put forward as one of our greatest strengths and accomplishments over the last few seasons; the fact that this team has been much better than the sum of its parts, that it's been punching above it's weight with regards to investment in the team etc. One of the main reasons for this is that the team has been exceptionally, maybe even historically uniquely well CHOREOGRAPHED. The understanding between the players, in every phase of play, the synchronicity. To quote Salieri in "Amadeus" "take out one note and the structure falls". Imagine a dance troupe having to change a couple of members between each performance, not having time to rehearse properly between shows...  To me it's not about the front three not being on form, it's about the 11, the 17, the 22... It's about losing our competitive advantage. One might argue that with the quality of players we have we should still beat the likes of Fulham, WBA, but of course it's not an equal race. Essentially those teams dont have to beat us to win. It's not like a match is decided by a sprint between Salah and the oppositions fastest player, or a passing exercise between Thiago and their best passer. They're built to stop us. It's like Salah trying to win a sprint with two players clinging on to his feet. This might sound obvious, and you might argue that this is how it will always be for a top club but for me, in our current situation, that is missing the point somewhat. The point is that under Klopp "the system is the creator", and this season our system has been put under extraordinary stress. We try to keep the system, keep the faith but  due to the circumstances it's failing us, and due to the relentless schedule there really aren't any time to rehearse good alternatives, and due to, again mostly injuries, there hasn't been any options available to change it either. Case and point with the substitutions today. People are complaining about the lack of impact (why not Keita etc), but the reality is that to expect ANY of our subs to make an impact today wasn't very realistic; Jota back after three months, Ox hardly played all season, Milner at 35 not a game changer, Keita - no rhythm, out for a while, Origi not good enough etc... That's not anyone's fault, that's just our rotten luck.

It's not that I think it's fine or to be expected that we loose 5 in a row at home (or three, two) but I do think that instead of being angry or outraged about it and looking for something/one to blame (owners, manager, players - motivation, complacency, hunger, tactics, coaching, game management) we should view these extraordinary and horrendous results mainly as a perfectly reasonable  result of the extraordinary and horrendous circumstances we find us in this season. Not the ONLY possible outcome given our situation but certainly not completely unacceptable or as a sign of incompetence in any part of the club.

This will be a new team next season. It will be mighty and dominating. We wouldn't even have to sign a single player to get there (but I still think we could do with a few signings/changes)

Keep the faith (keep the peace)

Right! Great post

Offline redmark

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #838 on: March 5, 2021, 01:27:30 am »
For me, the season cannot end quick enough. I'm knackered, I know most of you out there are knackered, and it's obvious that Klopp and his magnificent team of champions are knackered too. They all deserve and need a proper break in order to recover, regroup and reset for next season. Then, I believe, will we see Liverpool back once more.
Brilliant. Straight in the 'quality posts...' thread.

And the right note to go off to bed.
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Offline HomesickRed

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Re: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Chelsea ‘42 Mount
« Reply #839 on: March 5, 2021, 01:50:14 am »
One of the grimmest things for me was the fact that I fully expected us to lose before the game even started. Once they went 1-0 up, I knew it was done. Same with the Bitters game too. I'm generally a really positive person these days, so it wasn't anything to do with just me being negative. It was simply based on what I see before me and the vibe it invokes within me. My gut usually serves me well, but sometimes I wish it didn't. It told me if we signed Klopp he'd win us the League Title. It told me after Kiev that we'd be back and win Big Ears. When we came second with 97 points my gut told me we'd come back the next season and win that too.

One thing it also told me is something I've never admitted on here because I couldn't believe it myself. After we lifted the Title last season, my gut told me we'd be lucky to even make top four this season. I dismissed it out of my mind because I couldn't believe it, didn't want to entertain the thought anyway and couldn't envisage a way in which we could implode so badly. Now, here we are, and I'm cursing my own gut reactions to things. It's the same gut feelings that saw me hoping we'd win tonight, but fearing what felt inevitable.

I have to say, I've read this thread from start to finish now, and it's sad to see good people in here turn on each other like some have. I get it though. We all care. We've all been living through a pandemic, life has been hard and our club feels like it's in free fall at the moment. Tensions boil over. It's normal in many respects, but still a bit sad to see. I hope we can stand back a little once we sleep on it and can be a little kinder to each other tomorrow.

We often can't win as fans. Some want to keep the flag upstanding as they run up the hill into a blaze of flak and want to hear nothing negative at all. To others, that might look good, but it all feels a bit too head-in-the-sand and too idealistic to be true. Others say what they see in an unfiltered way. By unfiltered, I mean sometimes without wider perspectives being taken into account. That can and will piss off the flag bearers who see it as without nuance and based in hysterics. The bottom line is both sets care passionately, but handle stuff in different ways.

I have a bit of both in me. I love the romance and the idea of getting shot to pieces as I run up the hill with my LFC banner, all guns blazing in 100% undying support, but there is another part of me that sees glaring issues and wants to name them as I see them. It's often said that if we can't support in tough times we shouldn't be there for the good times either. I get that, but I'm one of those annoying buggers that will support until my dying day, but will also name something wrong if I see it. Personally, I feel you can be a good supporter and still stare reality in the face and talk about it. With that in mind, I really don't see the need for there to be only two camps that appear to be polar opposites. Really, most of us occupy the middle ground where we can be good supporters but also honest too.

I think we've all been on one hell of a ride in recent years. I've seen a lot from LFC in my 58 years, but the last couple of seasons were almost off the scale. It felt like the best I've ever seen at times, and when I think of the great teams, great managers and the collection of trophies Liverpool have racked up since I hit this planet in 1962, that's really saying something. I thought I'd seen it all, then Klopp's Liverpool matured and ripped football a new backside.

Since then, look at what's happened. A catastrophic pandemic sweeps the planet and turns it upside down. Our manager loses his beloved mother and cannot bury her. Our goalkeeper's dad drowns at just 57 and he cannot go home to be with his family and bury his father. One is standing on a touchline of empty stadiums in a meaningless season and the other is keeping goal in the same circumstances after just a few days off. We'll I've lost a father and other loved ones, and no way on earth am I going to work days later and giving my all. Not because I don't want to give everything, but because I can't. We have human beings trying to do their jobs in a state of grief and emotional turmoil.

We've had other players who have had Covid. We've had serious injuries the likes of I've never seen in my entire life. We are a club/team that runs on adrenaline and passion, yet we have a soulless season without fans in grounds. We have a fanbase that offers fantastic vocal support when it's really needed, yet not a one can enter the ground to do so. We have men down, yet can do nothing to help lift them. It's a perfect storm, isn't it? VAR and horrifically inept officiating has helped disrupt our flow and hamper us at crucial moments. Anything that could go wrong, has gone wrong. It has been an endless stream of problems in a relentlessly tedious, freak anomaly of a season.

With hindsight, I think it all came at absolutely the wrong time football-wise too. We went absolutely flat-out for two seasons. By the end of last season we had gone from nearly-men to champions of England, Europe and the World itself. An absolute tidal wave of emotion was released. All that adrenaline had finally reached its peak and the balloon had been finally burst. We'd done it. Champions once more.

Now all of that, like the most amazing night out, often comes with a mega hangover. Thing is, rather than being able to sit back, relax a little, bask in the glory then sleep off the hangover, we basically had to get straight up at 7:30am on Sunday morning and hit the road running once again. We were done, but we had to start over again with no recovery time. Look at Abu Dhabi after they went flat-out for two seasons. Even though they had a full pre-season their goose was cooked. It took them well into this season to get back on track. After two flat-out seasons we had to pretty much go again straight away and hit the ground running from the off. With hindsight, it feels like an impossible task. With the wheels coming off in pretty much every other respect too, it's proved to be impossible too. Personally, I don't think we'll see anything resembling the real Liverpool until next season. Mind you, knowing Liverpool, it wouldn't surprise me if we somehow lifted Big Ears again to round off the most ridiculous season in history.

To be honest, I'd be happy to turn a number six into a seven, but I genuinely cannot even get excited over that possibility given the circumstances around football and life itself at the moment. I'm not sure anyone is actually enjoying the game at the moment. By that I mean those playing and managing in it just as much as those watching it. The whole thing feels like an exercise of going through the motions to fulfill contracts. Given the societal backdrop behind it all, I can hardly blame any of them for dropping intensity and application. Going through the motions when you are mentally and physically exhausted is bad enough. Going through it in current circumstances must be soul-destroying. Doing it whilst bereaved must be like a living hell.

For me, the season cannot end quick enough. I'm knackered, I know most of you out there are knackered, and it's obvious that Klopp and his magnificent team of champions are knackered too. They all deserve and need a proper break in order to recover, regroup and reset for next season. Then, I believe, will we see Liverpool back once more.







Great post. We have MASSIVELY overachieved these past couple of seasons given net outlay and squad size. Covid has scuppered some transfer plans i'm sure and injuries have blighted us. Added to that, some players have simply run out of gas, mentally and physically.