Author Topic: Bruno Cheyrou (Read 83336 times)

Gnurglan · « **Reply #120 on:** February 24, 2003, 12:20:30 am »

Of course Baros has been better than Cheyrou. I just think we built him up too much and that was wrong.

Cheyrou is in danger of becoming yet another attacking player who has to toughen up and turn out a tackling, ballwinning player. Sure he needs to improve, but he's got other abilities and that's the ones we should strive to use. So far, all he gets to do is watch the ball fly over his head or try to win it back.

KFC · « **Reply #121 on:** February 24, 2003, 02:49:32 am »

I think Cheyrou could be our No. 7 -- I think he is good enough to be given a chance, and I think he could turn out to be a very good player.

We should ask if Kewell wants to take our No. 7 shirt next season, if he doesn't give it to Cheyrou and let's give No. 77 to Smicer if he is still here.....

Actually scrap it since 28 will always be Cheyrous number -- he is taking that number in Lille as well.

alison · « **Reply #122 on:** February 24, 2003, 04:34:58 am »

jesus, are we a football club or borstal?

WOOLTONIAN · « **Reply #123 on:** February 24, 2003, 08:49:20 am »

Theres something about Cheyrou, that makes me believe he will become a fans favourite in the future.
I've watched all the games he's played in, and even when he's had a stinker, he still has something.
My lad thinks I'm nuts, but every now and again, a player comes along that makes you think, theres more to him than we are currently seeing.
I'd like to see him get an extended run, I'm convinced the more he plays the better he'll get.

I said exactly the same about Baros, but unfortunately Ged is not giving him the games he needs.
In one week and out the next is not helping Milans confidence.

alan j · « **Reply #124 on:** February 24, 2003, 09:17:50 am »

I agree with you Wooltonian, every now and again Cheyrou does something that none of our other players would even have thought of - there was one first-time chipped pass in the first half yesterday which almost put one of our players through on goal that was breathtaking in it's vision and execution.

He also seems to have a genuine instinct for goal, it was noticeable that Cheyrou was making more centre-forward type runs than Heskey yesterday and I have no doubt that the 15 goals he scored for Lille last season were a fair representation of what we can expect from when (if) he gets used to the pace of the game.

The problem with him is that he just doesn't look like he's awake half the time, but if he can get going he's got all the ability of Kewell, Rivaldo etc.

I have to say I have been disappointed with him so far though, he's a lot further off the pace than I was expecting him to be but I get the impression that the team situation he's been dropped into hasn't made it easy for him to settle.

Bob Kurac · « **Reply #125 on:** February 24, 2003, 09:37:48 am »

I'm sorry, but Bruno was shockingly ineffective yesterday.

Olly · « **Reply #126 on:** February 24, 2003, 10:01:03 am »

Cheyrou has looked fairly ineffective in a lot of the games he has played in this season, and all too often drifts way out of play. Yesterday I heard his name mentioned, and my first reaction wasn't "oh no!" It was "well this could be the day when Bruno comes good".

Why? Because I still believe that he will come good. I agree with some of you here that his first touch is usually very composed. If he can just pick up the pace of the game here, and put his foot in every so often, and run a bit more (basically show a bit more effort) we may have a good player. Time will tell though I guess.

Jason_King · « **Reply #127 on:** February 24, 2003, 10:27:44 am »

Cheyrou will be quality. How the feck can us fans whinge and say how negative and dull we are and then moan at one of te few flair players we have?! Pires is the best player in the prem going forwards, nou doubt and he wa wink in his first year.
Bruno is struggling, get off his fecking back and encourage him if we need someone to create something then let him try. Getting jeered wont encourage him to try.

We were shite again yesterday, no scapegoats just piss.

Barrettski · « **Reply #128 on:** February 24, 2003, 11:24:44 am »

Quote from: Bob_Kurac on February 24, 2003, 09:37:48 am

I'm sorry, but Bruno was shockingly ineffective yesterday.

Have to agree... in a game where we were without Gerrard and Smicer, we needed Cheyrou to get heavily involved and be the creative link for Emile, Milan and Michael. He wasn't. He also shirked one or two tackles... and for the second goal produced the worst piece of tracking back I've seen for a while. He lolopped back after Lazaridis when a sprint was in order. So it's great for him to come out with a great interview like this... but I'd rather our players did their talking on the pitch.

Don't get me wrong, I think he is class as the Lille and Lazio games have proved... and I'm not scapegoting him... but I'd rather he did some of the learning he patently needs in the reserves first.

Aidan_B · « **Reply #129 on:** February 24, 2003, 07:13:26 pm »

I heard a rumour that he didn't respond well to playing in the reserves. Anyone know this to be true or just media rubbish ?

Apart from that, he has odd good moments but quite simply not enough. A run in the side might well help him, but if that means keeping out Diouf, Murphy, Hamann or Gerrard (our best midfield IMHO) then I personally don't think it can be justified. A long run in the reserves, or possibly on loan to Coventry or something might help him just as much.

Farman · « **Reply #130 on:** February 25, 2003, 03:15:30 am »

The jury's still out. With players like him, you definitely need to wait until their second season before passing judgement. The likkes of Pires and (to a lesser extent) Baros show that you can have a poor season but still come good. But for, say, Diomede and Biscan it just hasn't worked.

Time will tell. But there should be a place for him with us - on form, he's the sort of flarey attacking creative influence that we need.

Gojedo · « **Reply #131 on:** August 27, 2003, 01:22:21 am »

Two indifferent performances to start the season and the best bet is to get behind the team and hope they're not confusing this season with last season. But Bruno Cheyrou, shit. Now it would'nt seem right too slag him and f**k knows how much he's committed himself to getting himself a regular spot in the first team but he just seems out of his depth and just too lightweight in the Prem.

The season is just two games old but hell, he was crap last year too. I should'nt be so negative about one of our players but against Chelsea I was bloody furious with his performance. Does he have what it takes to make it at Anfield, or in the prem for that matter?

Graeme · « **Reply #132 on:** August 27, 2003, 01:45:28 am »

He has failed to make an impact since he joined the club, but so did Ljunberg and Henry at Arsenal, and you look at the influence they have now, I think Ljunberg spent over a year in the reserves.

I'd give him until the end of the season myself to see if he can adapt to the Premiership.

Sat1 · « **Reply #133 on:** August 27, 2003, 01:47:28 am »

He would need a few games, Idont think one game and then not playing helps

Ian-TN · « **Reply #134 on:** August 27, 2003, 01:52:12 am »

I think he needs a decent run in the side to adapt more to this league. Look how well it did El-Hadji last year when he got a good run on the right.

Adeemo · « **Reply #135 on:** August 27, 2003, 02:10:16 am »

Quote

I think Ljunberg spent over a year in the reserves.

I think you'll find that you're wrong on that one. He scored on his debut against Man U, lobbing Rudolf, and has been a regular ever since. Pires and Henry struggled in their 1st seasons at Arsenal, but still had the odd very good game, showed flashes of brilliance, and generally looked as if they were class players in waiting. Very much like Diouf last season. Now can anyone honestly say that Bruno has shown even a hint that he could be a top class player in the Premier league? The answer must surley be a definate no. For me he has very very few chances, if any, left to prove himself.

Graeme · « **Reply #136 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:05:33 am »

Regular? He played only 16 games that season - many as a substitute. He spent most of that year playing in the reserves which was my point. I was watching something on TV recently, possibly the Community Sheild build up and they had done a profile on him saying how he struggled to break into the team for a while.

ecmdtan · « **Reply #137 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:06:00 am »

Quote from: Adeemo on August 27, 2003, 02:10:16 am

Now can anyone honestly say that Bruno has shown even a hint that he could be a top class player in the Premier league?

Actually yes. He has shown hints.

MC-Red · « **Reply #138 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:37:16 am »

He has shown no hints. Also to get a run in the team he needs a spot to play in.
The wings are taken by Kewell and Diouf for now and maybe Smicer occassionally.
If it has to be it would be in the center with SG.
We have had a couple of threads go over this. Not one person thinks Stevie is going to be the defensive of the two CMs. They either think he should be the offensive player or interchangeable with the other CM.
Neither role suites Cheyrou so just don't see him getting a run in this team.
Until some other players have had their run and failed. He will just have to wait his turn in the shadows for now.

Armin · « **Reply #139 on:** August 27, 2003, 08:16:14 am »

Be fair, he makes an easy scapegoat but I question some of the assumptions made about him.

He has shown hints of real class. From penetrating through balls, exquisite turns in tight spaces to genuine ability with both feet, not something which should make him stand out but it does.

He struggled last year no argument there. However, could he or the manager have predicted he would be coming into a stuttering team with many of its regulars also misfiring? Bruno is a kind of 'cherry on the top player' giving that extra class in the final 3rd. I think he would have done much better in the treble team of 2001 than the troubled team of last season. I feel sorry for Diao and Diouff for the same reason.

France are the best team in Europe and possibly the world (on their day). Their record in producing talent is unparalleled in Europe and their top coaches all rate Bruno - yet we know better? It might be that he will be one of those players who can't adapt but 16 games with most as sub is not much time to prove it. I don't think he was terrible versus Chelsea and I could see why GH included him in the team.

I still have faith that he can be a success at Liverpool, end of this season would be a good time to make this judgement as Graeme said above.

oojason · « **Reply #140 on:** August 27, 2003, 11:24:09 am »

Did Cheyrou sing a 4 year contract to come here?

If so then at the end of this season there will be 2 years left on it - ususally the time the club starts to negotiate a new contract, he may only have till the end of the season to prove himself - or GH may be tempted to offload him, esp with the younger players coming through...

Personally I hope Cheyrou does have a good season - but at the moment he'd seem to be 2nd choice behind Murphy and Kewell for their respective positions.

MC-Red · « **Reply #141 on:** August 27, 2003, 01:33:18 pm »

Armin,
Understand your points but you tell me where is he going to get the run he needs?
Barring injury to another player someone else has to lose their position for him to get his shot. Just the way it is. Rightly or wrongly in his brief cameo's he had to show a lot to be able to edge out the current first teamers and hasn't been able to do it.
On the contract issue I don't think we have any fear of losing him if he comes good next year he will probably sign an extension so I am not worried about this year being a deadline.

joepunter · « **Reply #142 on:** August 27, 2003, 02:39:59 pm »

cheyrou is a very talented player, far more so than murphy for instance. he showed more class in one pre season game at lazio than many other lfc players have done in their entire careers at the club.

i am interested to see how quick fans are to rubbish him when they will then turn around and extol the virtues of emile heskey, the worst signing in the history of the club.

oh wait for it - piechnik, kozma, kvarme, dundee blah blah - yeah, well you could have got all of those plus a few more duds with the amount we spent on mr em.

i would love to know why cheyrou has not been able to produce the standard of play i have seen him produce for lille on a regular basis for liverpool.

i believe the player's fundamental problem is a lack of mental strength. at lille he was playing for a small club, in the same team as his little brother, in front of appreciative fans, in the correct position, and he was the best player in the team, their inspiration. he dragged them to third in the league - lille! lille are the bolton of france.

at anfield he rarely if ever gets a game, if he does he's out of position, he doesn't seem to have many friends in the squad, and whenever he makes a mistake the fans, whose knowledgeability about football is overrated, are down on him like a ton of bricks - far more so than with other underperforming players like hyypia, smicer, etc.

if he is to remain at liverpool, i think the best way of resurrecting his career is to play him in away games, where the fans won't get on his case, as part of a 4-2-3-1. this way he can hopefully start to show his class, people will see on tv and when he appears at anfield they will be a little more appreciative.

however i feel that with the number of players in our squad it is unlikely he will ever get the chances he needs and if i were bruno's agent i'd be trying to find another club.

thus endeth the lesson.

capt k · « **Reply #143 on:** August 27, 2003, 02:57:34 pm »

Quote from: joepunter on August 27, 2003, 02:39:59 pm

cheyrou is a very talented player, far more so than murphy for instance. he showed more class in one pre season game at lazio than many other lfc players have done in their entire careers at the club.

i am interested to see how quick fans are to rubbish him when they will then turn around and extol the virtues of emile heskey, the worst signing in the history of the club.

oh wait for it - piechnik, kozma, kvarme, dundee blah blah - yeah, well you could have got all of those plus a few more duds with the amount we spent on mr em.

i would love to know why cheyrou has not been able to produce the standard of play i have seen him produce for lille on a regular basis for liverpool.

i believe the player's fundamental problem is a lack of mental strength. at lille he was playing for a small club, in the same team as his little brother, in front of appreciative fans, in the correct position, and he was the best player in the team, their inspiration. he dragged them to third in the league - lille! lille are the bolton of france.

at anfield he rarely if ever gets a game, if he does he's out of position, he doesn't seem to have many friends in the squad, and whenever he makes a mistake the fans, whose knowledgeability about football is overrated, are down on him like a ton of bricks - far more so than with other underperforming players like hyypia, smicer, etc.

if he is to remain at liverpool, i think the best way of resurrecting his career is to play him in away games, where the fans won't get on his case, as part of a 4-2-3-1. this way he can hopefully start to show his class, people will see on tv and when he appears at anfield they will be a little more appreciative.

however i feel that with the number of players in our squad it is unlikely he will ever get the chances he needs and if i were bruno's agent i'd be trying to find another club.

thus endeth the lesson.

Fuck me.......... well done Joe, a post that makes a bit of sense and DOESNT CALL FOR GED TO BE SLUNG OUT
obviuosly you know a bit about the game so why not try more posts like this??

john_mac · « **Reply #144 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:06:24 pm »

Does anybody know how many starts Cheyrou has made for Liverpool? I wouldn't mind betting it is less than ten.

I just don't think it is the time to throw out a judgement on the player. A player settling into a new country, in a tream that has been struggling, where he has hardly been given an opportunity to string a couple of performances together.

capt k · « **Reply #145 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:16:07 pm »

not sure about starts john. but according to offal stats he has made 29 first team appearences

john_mac · « **Reply #146 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:17:47 pm »

but you know how many of them have been three/ five minute stints at the end of games.

capt k · « **Reply #147 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:19:48 pm »

sorry m8.gives ya stuff all info on the official site... thats why i come here...

btw anyone got a web address for OPTA?

??
my search engine is shite :but :but

joepunter · « **Reply #148 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:39:12 pm »

capt k - because the houllier must go issue is the one foremost in my mind these days.

i do not want rid of him because i hate the man (though i find aspects of his conduct contemptible), i want rid of him because i love the club and in the popular cliche i believe he has taken it as far as he can.

we have good players and under houllier these players are underperforming badly. this has been the case for nine months or so.

people are saying we are two games into the season, but in reality, barring the fools gold of a worthy cup win in march, liverpool have stumbled from disaster to disaster ever since the start of november last.

the manager does not seem to know what to do about it and his attempts to rectify the problem have all failed.

i think someone else should now be given a chance as if we are to remain a big club it is crucial that we retain the attitude that 'we deserve better than this bollocks'.

that's the attitude fans of real madrid have, and they've won 9 european cups. the tyranny of low expectations is the greatest enemy of success, and i think houllier, with his references to a 'top 4' finish as the aim for the season, and his constant harping on the theme that players aren't really players till they're 27-28, is creating an atmosphere of low expectations at anfield.

'aim for the moon and you may land among the stars'. a pretty sentiment, noble even... but it turns out the 'moon' he's aiming for is fourth in the league.

fuck that. if houllier thinks he can't win the league, he should go away and do something else he thinks he can do. we should get someone else in who wants to WIN the league. this is liverpool football club. not fucking spurs or man city.

smicer07 · « **Reply #149 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:43:29 pm »

"because the houllier must go issue is the one foremost in my mind these days. "

How about you support the team? Surely that should be the foremost thought in your mind at the moment. Or are you just obsessed?

smicer07 · « **Reply #150 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:44:24 pm »

Oh and:

"this is liverpool football club. not fucking spurs or man city."

So ACT like a Liverpool supporter, not like a Spurs or Man City one, who moans and groans at the first sign of problems.

john_mac · « **Reply #151 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:47:22 pm »

this is liverpool football club. not fucking spurs or man city.

Yet you act exactly in the manner that Spurs and City fans do.

Get a grip whopper

joepunter · « **Reply #152 on:** August 27, 2003, 03:56:34 pm »

why did liverpool fans develop this tradition of never criticising the manager?

could it have been something to do with close to 30 years of continual success under, among others:

a) one of the most charismatic managers in football history
b) the most successful british manager of all time
c) one of the british games' all time greatest players

unquestioning sheeplike loyalty, no matter how inept the leader, is a desirable characteristic in crack-crazed child soldiers. it is not a prerequisite for being 'a real liverpool fan'.

maybe you share houllier's vision of liverpool, but i don't and i'm fucked if i'll sit quietly and watch while the team loses while playing embarrassing football.

for fuck's sake lads. he's had five years and he's claiming teething problems are to blame for the latest pish performances.

will you lot believe absolutely anything?

john_mac · « **Reply #153 on:** August 27, 2003, 04:05:51 pm »

Don't be a tit lad all you have done is throw personal insults at the manager.

I don't think that that is a way to support your football club.

If I have sheep like loyalty, so be it. What I do know is that loyalty is to the football club I support and not to an individual within that club.

What I have not got is arrogance to believe that I know more about players and staff than people within the inner circle of the club. What I have not got is a memory span of a goldfish or the common decency of a chimpanzee.

Get a grip.

joepunter · « **Reply #154 on:** August 27, 2003, 05:20:43 pm »

"What I have not got is arrogance to believe that I know more about players and staff than people within the inner circle of the club."

you remind me of those people who said "tony blair must know something we don't about saddam hussein. there's no way he's leading us into war on a crazed personal whim or because george bush told him to. he knows what he's doing, there must be weapons in the desert, who are we ordinary little people to say what's what, i trust and believe in our leaders" etc etc.

the point is we all get to watch the team, and we all understand the game of football. it is after all, as shankly said, a simple game. we can see that our team is punching well below its weight and has been for a long time. we can see that our two best english players are hinting at leaving the club because the results are so poor. maybe you're happy with that, but i'm not. i'd rather lose GH and his ineffective "philosophy" than steven gerrard and michael owen.

hoonin · « **Reply #155 on:** August 27, 2003, 05:49:00 pm »

Quote from: joepunter on August 27, 2003, 03:39:12 pm

'aim for the moon and you may land among the stars'. a pretty sentiment, noble even... but it turns out the 'moon' he's aiming for is fourth in the league.

Firstly, I can't ever recall Houllier intimating that 4th is the pinnacle of this clubs ambitions, or any other manager in the top 5 openly declaring what position they are aiming for.

Fourth has been the bare minimum for any of the top 5 clubs over the last few years, ever since our co-efficient permitted us an extra CL qualifying place. Those 5 clubs have primarily been us, the mancs, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Newcastle.

Anything above 3rd or 4th in recent years and we're not talking major differences here, usually a few points or 2 or 3 wins to determine who finishes in what order. Admittedly the top two places have been dominated by two teams in the main, but more than ever there are now 4 or 5 times that appear capable of sustaining the challenge right to the end.

I'm pretty certain that none of the managers of these 5 teams set out with a target of simply finishing 4th. More a case of them setting the expectations of fans by highlighting the fact that 4th should be achievable whilst sidestepping declarations of a finer granularity due to them being both unreasonable and destructive to one's own interests.

joepunter · « **Reply #156 on:** August 27, 2003, 05:59:28 pm »

"due to them being both unreasonable and destructive to one's own interests. "

unreasonable?

what is unreasonable?

the idea that with the current squad of players, liverpool football club should have a proper go at winning the english premiership?

not finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th - WINNING it - beating ferguson and wenger and robson and ranieri, beating all of them, actually stepping forward and showing a bit of BALLS and TAKING the league title?

why is that unreasonable?

as i said, the tyranny of low expectations...

i'm sure GH would agree with you that it's 'unreasonable' to expect him to win anything. well, maybe a one man pin the tail on the donkey contest - i'm sure he'd get there after a five year plan and a lot of time in the reserves to get used to the pace of the game. that said it would be unreasonable to expect him to deliver within that five years as he might have to change his style of pinning several times...

he doesn't really believe he's better than ferguson or wenger. if liverpool are ever going to WIN the league, we have to BEAT those two. a big man would come in and go FUCK you fergie, and FUCK you arsene, we are going to win this thing. but houllier is content to trail in behind and go "well, we're still learning" and talk about the average age and the number of shots on goal.

"united are two to three years ahead of us" 1999 "united are two to three years ahead of us" 2003.

"we're still learning..." all they're really learning is how to fail. becoming hard-wired, ingrained, pavlovian failures.

but there's hope.

look what happened when the french sacked houllier. they went from losing to israel and bulgaria to winning the VERY NEXT WORLD CUP!

i don't dispute that the man has put in place a quality foundation. nobody understands training facilities, youth academies, dietary regimens and back-stretching exercises better than le boss. it's just the actual football bit he can't handle.

real footballers have always known this. platini couldn't stand houllier and mocked his pomposity, doing tricks with the ball at clairefontaine and then sniggering "come on professor, show us how it's done..."

now all we need is someone who understands football to come along and get the best out of the quality players we've got. before they scatter to the four corners of europe to pursue their dreams elsewhere.

Millsee · « **Reply #157 on:** August 27, 2003, 06:04:42 pm »

Quote from: joepunter on August 27, 2003, 05:59:28 pm

look what happened when the french sacked houllier. they went from losing to israel and bulgaria to winning the VERY NEXT WORLD CUP!

Oh, now you're talking bollocks.

So it's BECAUSE they sacked Houliier that they won the world cup, is it?

Nothing to do with Houllier himself, by any chance?

hoonin · « **Reply #158 on:** August 27, 2003, 06:11:32 pm »

You really missed the point of my post there, didn't you Ken?

I dont think anyones expecations are for 4th place only, if they were I'd be questionaing their ambitions. But what it the point in Houllier coming out and saying we're going to win the league this year? I certainly dont hear any other managers saying such things, the reason being there are too many variables in a season to make such a bold a rediculous claim. Given the nature of the media, any manager coming out with a claim like that would be beaten into the ground for not living up to their own predictions.

I can just picture it now:-

Aug 2003 - Houllier declares Liverpools intent to win the League.
May 2004 - After Liverpool finish 3rd, joepunter logs onto the internet and declares Houllier a twat for promising something he did not deliver.

You are fucking priceless mate.

joepunter · « **Reply #159 on:** August 27, 2003, 06:52:27 pm »

"may 2004 after liverpool finish 3rd"

you have a very fatalistic view of our chances this season.

i see no reason why our current squad could not challenge arse, man u, chels for the title.

of course they won't, given their collective poor form, lack of confidence and shit tactics. but i think that another manager could turn this into a title-winning squad.

Author Topic: Bruno Cheyrou (Read 83336 times)

hoonin

hoonin